Really enjoyed the game.....thought we were brilliant for 80 mins or so....best I have seen us play for a while.....capped off a good day by seeing an excellent Depeche Mode show in Boston last night.....Charlton....Never Let me down again !
Is it ok now to remind ourselves that the 4 long term injured players, Aneke, T Taylor, Edun and now Camara, all had injury issues pre season. They all occupy positions, left back, defensive midfield, attacking midfield and striker, that we do not really have adequate other backup options for. You could add MacGrandles to that list as well. Just saying that when January comes around please no signings 'coming back from injury'.
Lloyd Jones has done ok despite similar circumstances at the back end of last season.
We need to address this full back situation (especially LB) so we don't have a VB bumbling around there. Watson played fine, but a good left footed full back, we still await.
Could have smashed Lincoln if we played like this, but they didn't fancy the battle that day. Thye just want to keep us on edge and interested.
I don't think Lincoln (Excepting first few minutes ) or Bolton let us play, they hassled us out of the game. They had sussed out how to play us, more remarkable is that Wigan didn't see those games and copy them.
Yes, Kirk was non existent when he came on, but before the pile on gets out of control watch Fraser's attempt to stop the first goal. Both as bad as each other. Half fit Fraser is no good to us as he isn't the most mobile. We need to find a way of getting a strong 90 mins out of our full backs as well. Watson can't seem to do more than 70mins and Asimwe blows up on 80.
Going to take the positives and say 3-2 flattered Wigan and we were very good for 70-80 mins. If one of the two chances Campbell had before they pulled one back goes in it could have been 5/6 nil.
I also think the fact that Dobson looked livid at the end is a good thing. He was marching round the pitch muttering to himself and shaking his head. Recognises how poor that last 10mins was.
Asimwe has just been fast tracked from youth football to men's, without a loan or any priming. I completely understand him losing focus after 70/80 minutes. It's evident why.
I thought he had a good game personally.
I like him, and rate him now and for future but he's got to watch that 2nd half and think how he could have stopped the winger doing whatever he wants. its all experience
I don’t know how many on here read his long interview recently about his development at Charlton since an 8 year old? alongside Anderson. Karoy’s his best mate whom he rates highly and aspired to be as good as. He was a winger and converted to full back by one of our youth coaches as he matured. So defending is an art he’s had to learn and it shows he’s still learning. When he gets the balance right he’ll be some player in the Billy Bonds mould who I’ve likened him to previously.
This explains to a degree how often he gets caught on the wrong side of the man he's supposed to marking. I still can't understand why any "defender" struggles to stay goal side, it's so basic.
Always feel you need a bit of luck at some point, that free kick against the bar was it for me, well deserved three points despite the late scare, good game.
I looked at that on the nine minute highlights, and to me it seemed like if it was going in AMB would've got his hand to it. I couldn't see how the ball would've evaded both the frame of the goal and AMB and squeezed in. I was thinking quite good goalkeeping as much as thinking blimey they hit the woodwork.
imo the pattern is set- when we can play, pass etc freely we get a good result. We aren't tough enough to handle pressure- ie drilled to play solid passing football that retains the ball and gets us into the other half, and tackle and harass the opposition to win the ball back.
You're right and it's generally been the same for as long as I can remember.
Yes, Kirk was non existent when he came on, but before the pile on gets out of control watch Fraser's attempt to stop the first goal. Both as bad as each other. Half fit Fraser is no good to us as he isn't the most mobile. We need to find a way of getting a strong 90 mins out of our full backs as well. Watson can't seem to do more than 70mins and Asimwe blows up on 80.
Going to take the positives and say 3-2 flattered Wigan and we were very good for 70-80 mins. If one of the two chances Campbell had before they pulled one back goes in it could have been 5/6 nil.
I also think the fact that Dobson looked livid at the end is a good thing. He was marching round the pitch muttering to himself and shaking his head. Recognises how poor that last 10mins was.
Yes, all good spots. I called it out on the match thread, but Fraser rushing the ball when Hector is standing him up for the first goal was awful, and left a man free. Fraser clearly went out there with a point to prove tonight, and he really put himself about and tried to get stuck in. And that's fine in the middle of the pitch, I feel like we needed to see a bit more from him after the last couple of games. But you need to understand when to use that, and also that that's not really your game. Hopefully this will be as sobering for him as the last couple of matches because he is still very good on the ball. And he'll only get fitter as time goes on.
It's an excellent point about the fullbacks and one I wanted to bring up: we can't keep getting 70-80 minutes out of them. TW was much better tonight, and I get he didn't have a pre-season, but he must be close to 90 minutes fit by now. He's had a couple of international breaks and started all bar one game since coming into the side. He got forward a lot more tonight but he's not the most "up and back" fullback either, so hopefully he's just taking some time getting up to match fitness.
As for Asiimwe, I wasn't convinced for most of pre season that he was ready to go without a loan. After seeing a fair amount of him, I get why we kept him round, even if making him first choice for a few weeks was a bad idea. He has all the physical and technical abilities you hope from a modern 18 year old fullback. But his positioning still needs a lot of work, and his decision making with the ball is still not great. It's clear he's been able to get away with a lot in youth football because of his athleticism. Kyle Walker had that problem for years, really until he joined City. I don't think Asiimwe has that kind of upside, but he's going to be very good if he continues to grow. The question at some point this season will be: does he need to go on loan to play regularly, or does he progress enough to be in our first team? I don't think we'll have too hard of a time getting League Two loan offers for him if we need to loan him out. And yeah, his inability to play a solid 90 remains somewhat elusive to me.
Also, want to say, gutted for Camara. I've not seen the post match press conference but I have to imagine he did his ACL or something. It was heartbreaking watching him go off. He is a very talented player, and I really hope we get to see some of it.
I'm really proud of how balanced the comments are tonight. We battered them for 80 minutes. Everything bar the one chance that went onto the top of the goal was in front of us and we never looked troubled. We can talk about bringing Tedic and Kirk on, but if you can't bring on subs to get them minutes when you're 3-0 up with 15 to go, when can you? I don't think it was just on those two, I think a lot of it was on Asiimwe and May tiring, and then some lapses in concentration.
I asked who doubted signing May in the match thread, and full disclosure, it was kind of me. Not that I doubted him, I've always been impressed by him. It's that I didn't know how he fits into a team with Leaburn and CBT, and to an extent TC. And...I still kind of don't. But I thought we'd be talking about dropping him at some point because he can't play up front on his own, and how silly do I look? He plays that 10 role so well, his work rate is excellent, and he's joint top scorer in the league. I do think we're going to need to play a midfield three at times, even if Camara is out for a while, and when that happens I suspect he'll be tried on the right again. But for now I think you put him in the 10, put Miles up front, and TC and CBT wide and you let them go.
CBT has improved a lot this year. He's always had stretches like this, but he looks unplayable at times. That turn for the goal was mustard. Also shout out to Louie Watson, who works hard and who does so well at finding space and breaking teams down. He still needs to work on some things in the defensive part of his game, but he looks like an excellent addition.
Lastly, TC was excellent and his work rate was second to none. There were times at the end where he was running past Asiimwe to get back, and then running past him to get forward. He doesn't always have to score to make an impact, and when you can get him making runs off the ball, he can be so dangerous because he's so clever with his movement. When he plays on the right he's not going to be a CBT type where he pulls out wide and tried to isolate his fullback. He needs to come inside and help link up play more. But he's finally looking more comfortable on the right and when he's in form he's very good.
Apples said it was hamstring after the game
Thanks yeah I saw that this morning. Hoping it's 2-3 weeks not 2-3 months, but I thought it was an ACL so if it's less than 9-12 months it's better than I feared
Watched on the stream, an excellent 80 minutes, then with Thomas and mainly Kirk on we go to pieces. Kirk completely bottled challenge for the Wigan 2nd goal, hope Appleton noted that, perhaps we can give him away in January (Kirk that is)!
Easy to blame Kirk but he didn’t bottle the challenge he just didn’t close down and allowed the bloke inside to score. But before that Hector had dangled a foot at the ball and Fraser and Jones had a gentlemen’s excuse me. Not saying Kirk wasnt at fault but so were others.
I agree. Kirk reacted half a second too late because he's a bit dozy and that gave the attacker the space to go past him. Kirk did the right thing in closing the attacker down, which is genuine progress for him, but he should have been more switched on. At that point though he other lets the bloke past him or brings him down for a penalty so we're in trouble either way. I'm much more annoyed at the fact a gentle pass along the floor managed to go from the byline to the other side of our box without any of our defenders showing the faintest interest in stopping it. Kirk's the least annoying part of that goal for me.
I was gonna go to the Kirk thread and post exactly this! I was just happy that he closed the man down! But yes, him switching off made it so he was off balance in his challenge and allowed the defender to go past him.
I thought Hector had an excellent game but in real time I thought he should have done better to cut that ball out as well. I'll go back and re-watch the highlights though.
I find it so annoying that fans aren't allowed to make honest comments about a player's failings without it being called scapegoating.
Presumably, some feel we must praise every player, every game without exception, regardless of how they are performing.
Not sure it's worth getting annoyed about mate. It was an observation.
I don't agree with people making out he's a problem in midfield, are people not allowed to defend players without it seeming like we must praise every player?
I got flagged up for this last week after my comments on Lincoln game, just don't get why it needs to be so literal.
Fraser doesn't go from a goal scoring midfielder and a key player for us to being an 'ambling' player over night, just doesn't happen like that.
I find it so annoying that fans aren't allowed to make honest comments about a player's failings without it being called scapegoating.
Presumably, some feel we must praise every player, every game without exception, regardless of how they are performing.
I don't think that's true, if anything I think a lot of people are incredibly negative about some of our players who don't deserve it. As soon as a goal goes in the comments about us being shit crop up.
As far as the difference between "honest assessment" and "scapegoating," I think Scott Fraser is a good example. We have seen him have excellent matches for Charlton, there should be no doubt about his quality but moreso about how to get the best out of him. But there has been some "Fraser's shit" starting to creep in in the last 2-3 matches. And whilst he has not played well, we know that it's not because he's a bad footballer, but rather he's out of form and I think more likely just not fully fit. And to be fair, there are a lot of people who call that out, but it does seem like he is now the weak link in the team and the reason things go poorly, and that's not really true.
What gets me the most frustrated is when people make decisions based on one to two matches, and not a group of matches or a season or previous seasons. Comments about how "it was all falling" apart under Appleton after we lost two matches (one to the team in 2nd) after two months of going unbeaten. Fraser being another good example. And I get that over the last few years, when things start to go wrong at this club that they keep going wrong and so it's easy to default to that, but it's just not always the case.
I find it so annoying that fans aren't allowed to make honest comments about a player's failings without it being called scapegoating.
Presumably, some feel we must praise every player, every game without exception, regardless of how they are performing.
Not sure it's worth getting annoyed about mate. It was an observation.
I don't agree with people making out he's a problem in midfield, are people not allowed to defend players without it seeming like we must praise every player?
I got flagged up for this last week after my comments on Lincoln game, just don't get why it needs to be so literal.
Fraser doesn't go from a goal scoring midfielder and a key player for us to being an 'ambling' player over night, just doesn't happen like that.
I mean, he literally did just that in this case due to his injury though I get the point you are making.
The problem is with Fraser is that even fully fit he's not a high octane energetic player so a les fit version is no real use to anyone.
I find it so annoying that fans aren't allowed to make honest comments about a player's failings without it being called scapegoating.
Presumably, some feel we must praise every player, every game without exception, regardless of how they are performing.
Rare for everyone to agree on player performances. Everyone allowed to give their opinion. It is a team game played over ninety minutes though, so individual player critisism might cause less annoyance to those who feel the need to respond if made within that context.
I've been guilty of criticising the criticizers before. I've now learnt it's best to let it be. Well, most of the time 😉
I find it so annoying that fans aren't allowed to make honest comments about a player's failings without it being called scapegoating.
Presumably, some feel we must praise every player, every game without exception, regardless of how they are performing.
Not sure it's worth getting annoyed about mate. It was an observation.
I don't agree with people making out he's a problem in midfield, are people not allowed to defend players without it seeming like we must praise every player?
I got flagged up for this last week after my comments on Lincoln game, just don't get why it needs to be so literal.
Fraser doesn't go from a goal scoring midfielder and a key player for us to being an 'ambling' player over night, just doesn't happen like that.
I mean, he literally did just that in this case due to his injury though I get the point you are making.
The problem is with Fraser is that even fully fit he's not a high octane energetic player so a les fit version is no real use to anyone.
Totally agree that since the injury he's looked leggy and rusty.
I think we sometimes go a little over the top with his lack of mobility (not you specifically newbie, just generally) because I do think that part of his game improved a lot last year. Maybe it's just that I felt he looked quite off the pace and lightweight in his first season and felt he made drastic improvements last year.
I just think that he's better in a midfield three with someone behind him to do the hard defending, and someone in front of him to link to the forwards, and that allows him to play through the midfield and keep the ball moving. And right now we're playing with a midfield two and I think he's kind of struggling to get to grips with that role and come back from injury. I know he played some in a 4-4-2 with Dobbo last season, and he did quite well, but I do agree it requires a lot of running out of him and he just doesn't seem to be there yet fitness wise.
Fraser was alright last season - played 42 games and scored 9 goals in a poor team with an extremely poor striker up front. Scott is just not the transformative, grab-the-game-by-the-scruff-of-the-neck signing he seemed to be. He's quiet with rare moments of quality and in a team like ours that probably isn't enough.
I don’t see Fraser being much different from last season but the deeper role he’s occupied this season exposes it a little more.
He is defensively poor and when alongside Dobbo (who is a ball follower) it often leaves a free opposition midfielder centrally which passes the problem on to our CB’s. While one is very creative and the other is highly combative, they are arguably our worst midfield pairing together (from an out of possession perspective) because they expose each others weaknesses. IMO if they’re on the pitch together Scotty has to be in the 10 to minimise the problem.
Anyway…3 points away from home on a miserable night in Wigan is very encouraging. The willingness to compete from the front and hunt the ball was very pleasing. A couple of better passes when we broke on turnover and it could have been more than 3 by half time.
I find it so annoying that fans aren't allowed to make honest comments about a player's failings without it being called scapegoating.
Presumably, some feel we must praise every player, every game without exception, regardless of how they are performing.
Not sure it's worth getting annoyed about mate. It was an observation.
I don't agree with people making out he's a problem in midfield, are people not allowed to defend players without it seeming like we must praise every player?
I got flagged up for this last week after my comments on Lincoln game, just don't get why it needs to be so literal.
Fraser doesn't go from a goal scoring midfielder and a key player for us to being an 'ambling' player over night, just doesn't happen like that.
Very generous. He’s been bang average since he got here, with more poor games under his belt than good ones. He’s just an overrated Alex Gilbey, albeit offering something slightly different in his game, but equally ineffective. And, he doesn’t work hard. It’s obvious to even the most basic football watcher that he hides. He is good at pointing, pirouetting, thinking he’s some sort of lower league Paul Scholes, but ultimately when we look back at this mediocre period in our history once he retires, we will say ‘yes’, he fitted right in
Fraser was alright last season - played 42 games and scored 9 goals in a poor team with an extremely poor striker up front. Scott is just not the transformative, grab-the-game-by-the-scruff-of-the-neck signing he seemed to be. He's quiet with rare moments of quality and in a team like ours that probably isn't enough.
I think some of the things he does well are not necessarily things you notice but they are things that are really important when a team is playing well.
But, as for your second point, it's something that I've been thinking about for the last few days. For the first time in a while, we have some really good competition for places. At the start of the season I would have said our biggest challenge would be getting the best out of Fraser, CBT, and May in the same system. But with the emergence of TC and LWatson, plus CBT and May having brilliant seasons, you're right, there might not be a place for Fraser in our best 11 at the moment.
Mr W was more than quizzical when I came up with a plan a couple of weeks back to break our journey from London to Glasgow with an overnight in Wigan on Halloween. Turns out I was spookily inspired.
First visit to the DW and what fun we had! From finding the local equivalent of the River Ale House on the way to the match (though even our Trevor might raise an eyebrow at £3,50 a pint)
to discovering the world famous Uncle Joe’s Mint Balls.
Then sitting behind the goal - where all five were scored - with two very old mates from the 1980s Covered End days.
And quite some performance from our boys if only the final whistle went on 80 instead of 90+6. Real heart in mouth stuff when the ball was passed to their unmarked pink-clad keeper 10 yards out who fortunately blazed over or else he would have taken all the headlines.
Our third goal was a thing of stunning beauty from Dobbo to Leaburn to Corey.
And you’ve got to love Alfie.
Even Mr W admitted he’d thoroughly enjoyed his night out oop north, capped off by some motley crew CAFC asking him back in the Wigan Premier Inn if he was Alfie May’s dad. 🤣
Fraser was alright last season - played 42 games and scored 9 goals in a poor team with an extremely poor striker up front. Scott is just not the transformative, grab-the-game-by-the-scruff-of-the-neck signing he seemed to be. He's quiet with rare moments of quality and in a team like ours that probably isn't enough.
I think some of the things he does well are not necessarily things you notice but they are things that are really important when a team is playing well.
But, as for your second point, it's something that I've been thinking about for the last few days. For the first time in a while, we have some really good competition for places. At the start of the season I would have said our biggest challenge would be getting the best out of Fraser, CBT, and May in the same system. But with the emergence of TC and LWatson, plus CBT and May having brilliant seasons, you're right, there might not be a place for Fraser in our best 11 at the moment.
‘Might not be’ is a bit of an understatement imho. I’ve never really been a fan because his all round contribution is way short of what it should if you’re looking for promotion. The mystery player for me this season is Chem Campbell. From what I’ve seen he looks ok, but he doesn’t seem to be near the starting XI. Or is he injured?
Can’t think why people are negative about some of these players, when they’re part of the longest time we’ve ever spent in the third tier having got relegated in to it 4 seasons and counting ….
Special mention to Tennai Watson who was excellent out of position at left back. We looked a lot better with him there than we have with Thomas the last few games.
Comments
I couldn't see how the ball would've evaded both the frame of the goal and AMB and squeezed in. I was thinking quite good goalkeeping as much as thinking blimey they hit the woodwork.
I thought Hector had an excellent game but in real time I thought he should have done better to cut that ball out as well. I'll go back and re-watch the highlights though.
Presumably, some feel we must praise every player, every game without exception, regardless of how they are performing.
I don't agree with people making out he's a problem in midfield, are people not allowed to defend players without it seeming like we must praise every player?
I got flagged up for this last week after my comments on Lincoln game, just don't get why it needs to be so literal.
Fraser doesn't go from a goal scoring midfielder and a key player for us to being an 'ambling' player over night, just doesn't happen like that.
As far as the difference between "honest assessment" and "scapegoating," I think Scott Fraser is a good example. We have seen him have excellent matches for Charlton, there should be no doubt about his quality but moreso about how to get the best out of him. But there has been some "Fraser's shit" starting to creep in in the last 2-3 matches. And whilst he has not played well, we know that it's not because he's a bad footballer, but rather he's out of form and I think more likely just not fully fit. And to be fair, there are a lot of people who call that out, but it does seem like he is now the weak link in the team and the reason things go poorly, and that's not really true.
What gets me the most frustrated is when people make decisions based on one to two matches, and not a group of matches or a season or previous seasons. Comments about how "it was all falling" apart under Appleton after we lost two matches (one to the team in 2nd) after two months of going unbeaten. Fraser being another good example. And I get that over the last few years, when things start to go wrong at this club that they keep going wrong and so it's easy to default to that, but it's just not always the case.
www.charliekirkfanboy.co.uk
The problem is with Fraser is that even fully fit he's not a high octane energetic player so a les fit version is no real use to anyone.
I've been guilty of criticising the criticizers before. I've now learnt it's best to let it be. Well, most of the time 😉
I think we sometimes go a little over the top with his lack of mobility (not you specifically newbie, just generally) because I do think that part of his game improved a lot last year. Maybe it's just that I felt he looked quite off the pace and lightweight in his first season and felt he made drastic improvements last year.
I just think that he's better in a midfield three with someone behind him to do the hard defending, and someone in front of him to link to the forwards, and that allows him to play through the midfield and keep the ball moving. And right now we're playing with a midfield two and I think he's kind of struggling to get to grips with that role and come back from injury. I know he played some in a 4-4-2 with Dobbo last season, and he did quite well, but I do agree it requires a lot of running out of him and he just doesn't seem to be there yet fitness wise.
But, as for your second point, it's something that I've been thinking about for the last few days. For the first time in a while, we have some really good competition for places. At the start of the season I would have said our biggest challenge would be getting the best out of Fraser, CBT, and May in the same system. But with the emergence of TC and LWatson, plus CBT and May having brilliant seasons, you're right, there might not be a place for Fraser in our best 11 at the moment.
Latest up, past my ideal run time but that's just how it ended up and I love hearing the away fans thoughts,
Hopefully its a decent watch ")
to discovering the world famous Uncle Joe’s Mint Balls.
Then sitting behind the goal - where all five were scored - with two very old mates from the 1980s Covered End days.
The mystery player for me this season is Chem Campbell. From what I’ve seen he looks ok, but he doesn’t seem to be near the starting XI. Or is he injured?