Astonished that the majority of Charlton Life seem to want Bowyer out ... fortunately it would appear that Thomas does not agree with you.
Respect your opinion, but to make that comment surely requires an explanation why you think it?. What has bowyer done so well not to judged on recent decisions and results. Completely forgetting sentiment in your answer.
We’re in 6th place.
At the moment, would you currently say 6th looking up or 6th looking behind our backs? Based on current decisions and form.?
Astonished that the majority of Charlton Life seem to want Bowyer out ... fortunately it would appear that Thomas does not agree with you.
I think the majority of Charlton Life want Bowyer to play players in the correct positions.
It’s amazing how all the Curbs revisionists completely forget the days he played right backs at left back, wide midfielders on the wrong wings, centre defenders as centre forwards, strikers out wide, four narrow central midfielders across the midfield with no width.
I think we've gone enough games to show it doesn't work with these players that are far from the quality you refer to. You think we should carry on with line ups like today?
Astonished that the majority of Charlton Life seem to want Bowyer out ... fortunately it would appear that Thomas does not agree with you.
I think the majority of Charlton Life want Bowyer to play players in the correct positions.
It’s amazing how all the Curbs revisionists completely forget the days he played right backs at left back, wide midfielders on the wrong wings, centre defenders as centre forwards, strikers out wide, four narrow central midfielders across the midfield with no width.
Right, I'll start by saying that that was bad, and that I don't agree with how Bowyer's been setting up recently. I don't have an issue with playing Pratley at CB as he's a better CB than Oshilaja and we all know it, though he let us down today with some silliness. Playing Matthews at left back is odd, especially given that Purrington is a player that really doesn't let us down. You can see what Bowyer was trying to do today with going to a flat 4-4-2 to try and get some solidity, and in many ways he tried to do exactly what he did against Hull post-lockdown. He's gone with a flat four with Albie on the left. You could even argue he's put Matthews there to deal with their threat cutting in on the right, which is exactly what he did last time, except he used Oshilaja then, and to some decent effect. What didn't help is that McGeady, average as he was, was a right winger whereas Maatsen is a LB he put on the wrong flank so there was no hope of width. Similarly Bogle isn't as good as Bonne or Hemed so we were always going to struggle in attack.
That aside though, you can see where the real problems lie. We started the season with a plan, and that plan was to use Alfie's pace out wide to counter attack off the back of a solid defensive unit. We lost Alfie, which massively affected our abilities on the break and stopped our good passers like Gilbey and Forster-Caskey having anyone to aim their raking passes to. We adapted though and settled for solidity alone, which worked. We weren't electric but we didn't concede and we were winning game after game without conceding. We then lost both of our Goliath centre backs, as well as our midfield creator in Shinnie and that's killed us completely. We now lack the pace and the solidity to play the way we'd hoped to, so Bowyer has tried to fall back on his tried and tested methods, but we didn't build a squad to suit those systems so we're not as good at it anymore. We don't have the abilities of Cullen, Bielik, Aribo and Gallagher anymore. Our midfielders are much slower and that causes us to lack any coherence between attack and defence. Add to that the fact that instead of having Lyle Taylor we have Omar Bogle and you can see where the true issues are. We desperately, desperately need pace, and we need Inniss and Famewo back. I do agree that Bowyer's attempts to pivot from our strategy have gone a bit Twilight Zone, but all this talk of sacking the manager is just bonkers when you actually think about what we're dealing with. How many other teams wouldn't struggle losing the three players absolutely vital to their way of playing long term, and then a boat-load on top of that? Add to that the wage cap and our late takeover, meaning we haven't got much depth in the squad in line with our change in style and I think any team would struggle. We're in a squad transition; remnants of one way of playing are alongside new players and when you have to mix them together in too-large quantities problems show.
Despite all that, this was our first loss in 5 games. Granted we've only won 1 in that period (though we should bear in mind there were two late equalisers in there to make things look worse), but we're still 6th. Still on for the Play-Offs despite the ridiculous amount of obstacles that have been put in the clubs way leading up to and during this season. Yet there's people who want the manager out because we've lost to probably the best team in the league and drew with Swindon. I get that people don't like the performances, but that's all part of the larger issues we've had. The entitlement since Sandgaard came in is astonishing. It will take time for us to to rebuild as a club, we might not go up this season and it might not always look pretty, but the knives coming out for Bowyer off a few dodgy decisions and the fact we're not pissing a league that we apparently 'deserve' to get promoted from is uncomfortable. Hopefully in January Schwarz can hit the ground running and we can get some pace to take the pressure off the defence and things suddenly won't look so bad. Bowyer can definitely help by making some more logical decisions but playing Maatsen and LB and our worst CB isn't going to fix the combination of injuries and the legacy of bad club management that Lee and the club have to deal with every step of the way. Chill. It'll be ok.
Astonished that the majority of Charlton Life seem to want Bowyer out ... fortunately it would appear that Thomas does not agree with you.
I think the majority of Charlton Life want Bowyer to play players in the correct positions.
It’s amazing how all the Curbs revisionists completely forget the days he played right backs at left back, wide midfielders on the wrong wings, centre defenders as centre forwards, strikers out wide, four narrow central midfielders across the midfield with no width.
Slightly different situation Dan. The players at Bowyer's disposal are league one standard. At this level keep it simple. In the premier league you have a much better quality of player who can adapt.
Astonished that the majority of Charlton Life seem to want Bowyer out ... fortunately it would appear that Thomas does not agree with you.
I think the majority of Charlton Life want Bowyer to play players in the correct positions.
It’s amazing how all the Curbs revisionists completely forget the days he played right backs at left back, wide midfielders on the wrong wings, centre defenders as centre forwards, strikers out wide, four narrow central midfielders across the midfield with no width.
A lot the time the players being asked to do so could actually achieve it as they were in the main better players?
First time I’ve thought maybe we do need a change of manager. I want to be patient and let him rebuild, I can see the weaknesses with the squad - 2/3 good signings could make a big difference, but these defensive line ups won’t get results we need for promotion. Watching that any frustration I had became boredom, it was more interesting to read reactions on here, Twitter and Facebook.
It was so predictable today after seeing that line up. In the past I knew Bowyer could prove people wrong with his team selections, today I hoped that would happen but had no expectations.
I accept all managers make tactical mistakes, sometimes pick strange line ups, can’t get the best out of every single player and not every signing works out. Some players can play in more than one position, I haven’t had a problem with Pratley at CB.
However there’s no way today can be defended. It’s not a one off, it’s a continuing trend since our good run. Signings will come in but we also need Bowyer to pick line ups with more attacking threat.
My feeling is the injury problems over the last few years is one reason Bowyer has rotated so much, he’s trying to avoid it happening again. Curbs talked about before the game having a settled team. We don’t have a best team and possibly not even a favoured formation.
I also mentioned in the match thread I wondered if Bowyer is picking teams based on how players train. Is this why the likes of Morgan, Maddison and Williams never get a run of starts? For all their weaknesses we need an attacking players out there. You can’t sit back and keep it tight if you don’t have enough outlets.
He also seems to have become more cautious after last season. Without Taylor, Gallagher and Leko I understood that in the Championship, scoring one goal was a struggle with whatever team we put out. I know we want to improve our attacking options in this transfer window, but regardless of that we should still be more adventurous than we were last season.
Is Bowyer waiting to get in attacking players who he trusts? We’re in League 1, is one issue him needing to accept very few attacking midfielders and wingers will track back and get stuck in the way he expects?
As ambitious as Sandgaard is I think he might be more patient than some are hoping or expecting. Whatever happens we know he wants to see attacking and exciting football - Bowyer’s produced that in the past, but today was the opposite, it was more like a Parkinson or Slade side. The difference is Bowyer had attacking options available to him and didn’t have to approach the game in the way he did.
I’ve seen comments on social media about Curbs helping out or coming in. Maybe, but to me a lot of this is basic stuff, Bowyer shouldn’t need someone to tell him you need a settled team. When you pick a team you need an idea of how you’ll create chances, what roles players play in that, who will score them etc. I can’t see what that plan was today other than keep the game at 0-0 and hope to nick a goal.
Will be interesting to see how it all develops over the next month or so. Very different feel to it now that we have an ambitious owner that wants to push the club forward.
Only positive for me is Bowyer will be forced to pick a team without Watson and Pratley. They make mistakes and have bad games, I feel Bowyer has overvalued their contribution and we may get more out of them by not playing them both for 90 minutes nearly every game.
Astonished that the majority of Charlton Life seem to want Bowyer out ... fortunately it would appear that Thomas does not agree with you.
How the hell do you work that out????
Be interested to see a poll on here of those who do want Bowyer gone
But then you’re just playing to the reactionaries.
Bowyer isn't going to get sacked now, so ‘fans’ screaming for him to be sacked just create a whole heap of unecessary and unhelpful noise. Once it seeps in, its there and it gets rehashed and regenerated after every defeat or bad performance.
We've an owner thats not not going to mess around as he has made clear we need promotion in next 18 months. If Bowyer isn’t delivering that, he’ll get rid of him.
After all we’ve been through this last few years, Bowyer (you would have thought) has earned the loyalty to have a crack at correcting this. This has been a poorly put together squad and then Impacted by key injuries. If it doesn’t shown improvement signs over the next couple of months, he’ll carry the can for it. But he’s earned the right imo to have a go at working this out through Jan.
All in all, we were shit, nowhere near where we should be and a lot of that imo falls on the tactics and selection in recent weeks. We've looks tired and really lacklustre, no excitement or energy about us, lots of laboured sideways passes. What i'd give for our 18/19 playoff team back. If Lee thought we were in the game, i'm sorry bowyer, but your off your tits drunk still from NYE, because that was a shower of shit
Astonished that the majority of Charlton Life seem to want Bowyer out ... fortunately it would appear that Thomas does not agree with you.
Respect your opinion, but to make that comment surely requires an explanation why you think it?. What has bowyer done so well not to judged on recent decisions and results. Completely forgetting sentiment in your answer.
We’re in 6th place.
At the moment, would you currently say 6th looking up or 6th looking behind our backs? Based on current decisions and form.?
Obviously on current form it’s not looking good (16th in form table for both last 5 and 10 games). But isn’t it showing something that we’re 16th in those form tables and still managed to hang on to a play off position. We’re above Hull in one of those form tables yet they’ve hung on to an automatic finish.
This league is about consistency, it has been for all the years we’ve been here before. We’re on poor form, I don’t believe that will last much longer.
I’ll judge Bowyer on the full season and I believe he should stay as manager for its entirety.
One thing to note is Hull lost their last 3 games, haven't played since 18th December and were 3rd at kick off, shows how open the league is so there is still plenty of time to turn things around.
Thomas had repeatedly said he wants attractive attacking football, we haven't played either since the promotion season.
I expect Bowyer to be given the full season and will then be gone regardless of where we finish, he just doesn't play the football Thomas likes and he can't grow the "brand" abroad like he wants to when we just play not to lose.
When your leading striker is out, it's completely baffling that Bowyer didn't look at his remaining players and work out a system around Maddison, and let him loose.
Yes we have issues with our squad BUT is Bowyer making the most of our current squad, and sadly the answer is no. We managed to carry no goal threat today, while also looking vulnerable at the back, against a team which has been struggling in recent weeks.
It's baffling to repeat in the first half a formation which didn't work last week. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...
Astonished that the majority of Charlton Life seem to want Bowyer out ... fortunately it would appear that Thomas does not agree with you.
I think the majority of Charlton Life want Bowyer to play players in the correct positions.
It’s amazing how all the Curbs revisionists completely forget the days he played right backs at left back, wide midfielders on the wrong wings, centre defenders as centre forwards, strikers out wide, four narrow central midfielders across the midfield with no width.
Coupled with being out of the game for 12 plus years and having zero experience of this level.
We are desperately short up front - both in terms of quality players and the actual size of our strikers.
So why on earth is Josh Davison still at Woking? He'd be a huge upgrade on Bogle. (And as someone else said, the coach should drop Bogle off in Grimsby tonight on the way home so he can continue his career there)
Hard to see where the goals will come from any more
That isn't Bowyers fault as we were hampered by the last lot who owned us + once TS was in the bloody wage cap stopped us signing better players. Playing players out of position, going ultra defensive, dropping players who have been outstanding in the previous game, playing four fucking full backs at the same time IS down to Bowyer. Should he be sacked ? I think TS will give him more time but I think it's a question of when not if.
Pratley with all his experience should be ashamed of himself.
That said if we carried on playing until this time next week I'm not convinced we would have scored but, until he went, we were at least beginnning to get some sort of foothold in the game.
Awful spectacle but Bowyer can only work with what he has. Three of his signings when Thomas came in are crocked. Maddison is Maddison. Nevertheless the usual suspects will call for Bowyer's sacking just like they did all those years ago.
What short memories people have. Bowyer stuck with us through all the Roland ESI stuff yet when it gets a bit rough some want to put the boot in.
Pissed off with the game pissed off with some of our fans.
How can Bowyer go cap in hand and say he needs creative midfielders (which I assume is part of the attacking 3rd) when he starts with Maddison and Williams on the bench?
Its league 1, I bet most managers would cut a bollocks off to have that on the bench.
So disappointing. Very poor performance and doesn't feel that the team are together at present. Yes we really miss the two central defender's and Shinnie is also sorely missed. Without Aneke there was no attacking threat. Trying to keep positive and things can change quickly with a couple of wins. Worrying times. I think with this squad we should be doing better despite the injuries
We are desperately short up front - both in terms of quality players and the actual size of our strikers.
So why on earth is Josh Davison still at Woking? He'd be a huge upgrade on Bogle. (And as someone else said, the coach should drop Bogle off in Grimsby tonight on the way home so he can continue his career there)
Davisons loan is until January, so will be interesting to see whether we extend it or not, seem to remember Gallen implied a little while ago that we might look to get him in the squad
We've dropped 17 points in our last 9 games. We even hold the dubious record of being the only team to lose to a side winless apart from that game in their last 23 matches in all comps. We will very shortly be dropping out of the play off zone.
LB can blame injuries. He can blame mistakes. But he can't get away from the fact that we do not play on the front foot even against the poorest of sides in this division or that he is deliberately playing players out of position when he doesn't have to.
I said it last week but my fear is that the single mindedness and self belief that took LB to the top as a player is starting to undermine all that he has achieved and might still achieve as a manager.
LB publicly thanked TS for backing him in putting his squad together. The question is will TS continue to do so and if so for how long?
We are desperately short up front - both in terms of quality players and the actual size of our strikers.
So why on earth is Josh Davison still at Woking? He'd be a huge upgrade on Bogle. (And as someone else said, the coach should drop Bogle off in Grimsby tonight on the way home so he can continue his career there)
Indeed I was baffled why we didn't bring him back - his loan spell was due to end at the start of January anyway - and stick him on the bench today
Comments
You think we should carry on with line ups like today?
The players at Bowyer's disposal are league one standard.
At this level keep it simple.
In the premier league you have a much better quality of player who can adapt.
It was so predictable today after seeing that line up. In the past I knew Bowyer could prove people wrong with his team selections, today I hoped that would happen but had no expectations.
I accept all managers make tactical mistakes, sometimes pick strange line ups, can’t get the best out of every single player and not every signing works out. Some players can play in more than one position, I haven’t had a problem with Pratley at CB.
However there’s no way today can be defended. It’s not a one off, it’s a continuing trend since our good run. Signings will come in but we also need Bowyer to pick line ups with more attacking threat.
My feeling is the injury problems over the last few years is one reason Bowyer has rotated so much, he’s trying to avoid it happening again. Curbs talked about before the game having a settled team. We don’t have a best team and possibly not even a favoured formation.
I also mentioned in the match thread I wondered if Bowyer is picking teams based on how players train. Is this why the likes of Morgan, Maddison and Williams never get a run of starts? For all their weaknesses we need an attacking players out there. You can’t sit back and keep it tight if you don’t have enough outlets.
He also seems to have become more cautious after last season. Without Taylor, Gallagher and Leko I understood that in the Championship, scoring one goal was a struggle with whatever team we put out. I know we want to improve our attacking options in this transfer window, but regardless of that we should still be more adventurous than we were last season.
Is Bowyer waiting to get in attacking players who he trusts? We’re in League 1, is one issue him needing to accept very few attacking midfielders and wingers will track back and get stuck in the way he expects?
As ambitious as Sandgaard is I think he might be more patient than some are hoping or expecting. Whatever happens we know he wants to see attacking and exciting football - Bowyer’s produced that in the past, but today was the opposite, it was more like a Parkinson or Slade side. The difference is Bowyer had attacking options available to him and didn’t have to approach the game in the way he did.
I’ve seen comments on social media about Curbs helping out or coming in. Maybe, but to me a lot of this is basic stuff, Bowyer shouldn’t need someone to tell him you need a settled team. When you pick a team you need an idea of how you’ll create chances, what roles players play in that, who will score them etc. I can’t see what that plan was today other than keep the game at 0-0 and hope to nick a goal.
Will be interesting to see how it all develops over the next month or so. Very different feel to it now that we have an ambitious owner that wants to push the club forward.
Only positive for me is Bowyer will be forced to pick a team without Watson and Pratley. They make mistakes and have bad games, I feel Bowyer has overvalued their contribution and we may get more out of them by not playing them both for 90 minutes nearly every game.
Bowyer isn't going to get sacked now, so ‘fans’ screaming for him to be sacked just create a whole heap of unecessary and unhelpful noise. Once it seeps in, its there and it gets rehashed and regenerated after every defeat or bad performance.
We've an owner thats not not going to mess around as he has made clear we need promotion in next 18 months. If Bowyer isn’t delivering that, he’ll get rid of him.
After all we’ve been through this last few years, Bowyer (you would have thought) has earned the loyalty to have a crack at correcting this. This has been a poorly put together squad and then Impacted by key injuries. If it doesn’t shown improvement signs over the next couple of months, he’ll carry the can for it. But he’s earned the right imo to have a go at working this out through Jan.
Thomas had repeatedly said he wants attractive attacking football, we haven't played either since the promotion season.
I expect Bowyer to be given the full season and will then be gone regardless of where we finish, he just doesn't play the football Thomas likes and he can't grow the "brand" abroad like he wants to when we just play not to lose.
Yes we have issues with our squad BUT is Bowyer making the most of our current squad, and sadly the answer is no. We managed to carry no goal threat today, while also looking vulnerable at the back, against a team which has been struggling in recent weeks.
It's baffling to repeat in the first half a formation which didn't work last week. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...
So why on earth is Josh Davison still at Woking? He'd be a huge upgrade on Bogle. (And as someone else said, the coach should drop Bogle off in Grimsby tonight on the way home so he can continue his career there)
He's said before that a mistake could ruin a young player, but in a ground with no fans, what better place to bring him in?
That said if we carried on playing until this time next week I'm not convinced we would have scored but, until he went, we were at least beginnning to get some sort of foothold in the game.
Awful spectacle but Bowyer can only work with what he has. Three of his signings when Thomas came in are crocked. Maddison is Maddison. Nevertheless the usual suspects will call for Bowyer's sacking just like they did all those years ago.
What short memories people have. Bowyer stuck with us through all the Roland ESI stuff yet when it gets a bit rough some want to put the boot in.
Pissed off with the game pissed off with some of our fans.
COYR
How can Bowyer go cap in hand and say he needs creative midfielders (which I assume is part of the attacking 3rd) when he starts with Maddison and Williams on the bench?
Its league 1, I bet most managers would cut a bollocks off to have that on the bench.
Bowyer could already have seen his reaction to a mistake and it might be in a way that Bowyer doesnt like to see a young player doing
Of course its up to Bowyer to try and get Barker out of that mindset if so, but you can take a horse to water!!
LB can blame injuries. He can blame mistakes. But he can't get away from the fact that we do not play on the front foot even against the poorest of sides in this division or that he is deliberately playing players out of position when he doesn't have to.
I said it last week but my fear is that the single mindedness and self belief that took LB to the top as a player is starting to undermine all that he has achieved and might still achieve as a manager.
LB publicly thanked TS for backing him in putting his squad together. The question is will TS continue to do so and if so for how long?
At least it would give us another option