I didnt have a problem left ground at final whistle got back to golf club nice and early had a few beers took shite from the spanners apart from result not a bad day,cant see wot all the fuss is about.
I thought you was going home?
I was but due to the police we got away pretty quick probably the easiest exit ive ever had away from the valley
Ive sent an email to a group at the Club. So i input Prothero's and Slaters email at the cafc.co.uk and they have bounced. So neither have a cafc email account?
Or have i done something wrong?
Neither of them have a CAFC email to my knowledge, but if they do it will be deliberately obscure.
He couldve just ignored them or waited the 20 mins as advised no one forced him to leave when he did
And that's the thing.
It was clear when exiting the ground many / most people didn't have a clue what was going on. They saw the horses and were told to turn right. They got to Charlton Lane, to be met with another rown of horses and coppers screaming turn right again (up the hill).
That's fine for me or you, not so if you're in your 70s/80s and didn't see something on the internet just 24hrs before the game. The stewards there were just saying I don't know what's happening. Those people weren't to know they should wait 20 mins, they were just doing what shouting policeman were telling them.
Thats the point i was also trying to make. This elderly man i helped give directions to just kept saying "They wouldnt let us go to the station". He didnt know what was going on - he probably doesn't read the internet or was probably taking a pee during the announcement at half time .
It really upset me watching him struggle and for what? so those winkers could get out of the ground with ease.
But didn't Scotland Yard say they were happy to segregate Floyd road ? So them everyone could go the way they wanted to ? Hopefully next season this will be the case and anyone wanting to get to the station can .
I think from the intel some of them were saying nolly that they were hoping they could deal with it by doing that the club decided that if the intel was right then they didnt want any home fans to be affected in the manner which was alleged and it was better to find alternative solution
They also wanted an early ob pressence at both ends of floyd rd and the tunnels due to what they had intel gathered leading up to the gamr none of which happend when it was alleged it would
You all left with us at the home game and apart from kids running about like headless chickens filming nothing, sod all happened.
The 4-4 game at yours everyone was allowed to do as they pleased before & after from memory.
Even Saturday, plod were out in force from 9am around the ground & outside every pub, but we walked to the ground without an escort and no trouble.
I just struggle to see this whole bloodbath rubbish. There may have been a few punches thrown but times have long changed since apparently we used to bully & punch every Charlton fan no matter their age, gender etc.
The biggest waste of space was the line of coppers in front of our stand, just standing there like wallies, I presume to stop the tide of thousands who were going to invade the pitch. A complete waste of money.
I have just received this e-mail reply from Mick Everett-para 8 refers specifically to Charlton Lane - read for yourselves-
Thanks for the email regarding the post match arrangements that were put in place for last Saturday’s game versus Millwall. I am sorry that we seem to have upset a number of our fans, but I am also sure that they were unaware of the circumstances that led to the decision to close Floyd Road post match. I should also add at this point that we did advise supporters of these post match arrangements 24 hours ahead of the game via the club website, and again via the match day programme.
Whilst I cannot go into all of the details behind this decision, what I can say is that it was the club’s decision to ask the Police to close Floyd Road, on the grounds of safety, as we did not want both sets of supporters meeting in this area after the game. We came to this decision because at an earlier local derby game this season against Crystal Palace, a number of spectators were assaulted in Floyd Road, resulting in three supporters suffering head injuries, all of which required hospital treatment. Obviously, we did not wish to see any repeat of this, particularly as Floyd Road can be a flashpoint. Indeed both the club and the Police received a number of complaints from spectators saying that at high risk fixtures, home and away fans should not be allowed to exit together.
You may also be unaware that due to the poor behaviour of a minority of Charlton fans at the corresponding fixture at the Den before Christmas, when seats were broken, and a couple of them thrown towards the pitch, smoke bombs were ignited, and a marine flare thrown onto the pitch. There was also serious disorder post match between rival supporters. These actions resulted in what should have been a normal derby match, posing a much greater risk, as the Police intelligence confirmed to us that an element of the Millwall support were looking for retribution, and our overriding concern was the safety of all of our supporters.
As I am sure you are aware, as a club, we have no jurisdiction in relation to matters outside of the stadium, and once we were aware that the Police tactics were not to hold back the away supporters, our first concern was the potential ‘flashpoint’ in Floyd Road.
Whilst the Police advised us that they would have plenty of officers, and horses in that area to keep the fans apart, the safety team at the Club were not as confident, particularly once supporters reached the station and mingled together.
It was because of the above factors that we agreed to assist Police with the road closures. At no time were spectators held back or 'penned in'. the stadium. Ransom Walk was available for exit from 14.42, just twelve minutes after the final whistle went.
Once the Police confirmed that they had put a number of away ‘risk’ supporters on a train and this had left Charlton station, the Police were able to re-open Floyd Road to those supporters that remained behind at the stadium in the bars and concourses having a drink. At this stage, the Police had already re-opened Ransom Walk ten minutes or so earlier, so that supporters could access the lower Woolwich Road.
As regards Charlton Lane, the British Transport Police had concerns about the number of persons who might use the crossing and stressed the fact that any incident or near miss on the crossing would result in the closure of the line. This is why the Police closed off access to the rail crossing in Charlton Lane, although we were unaware that they were going to reinforce this area. We were under the impression that supporters would be filtered through here as opposed to it being completely closed off. It seems that the Police in this area did not use their discretion, something their colleagues in Ransom Walk did, as they allowed elderly supporters and those with walking difficulties to use Ransom Walk as and when they arrived in that area.
I am aware that some of our supporters were upset with these post match arrangements, but I accept full responsibility for these, and from a safety perspective, everybody managed to exit the area in a safe manner without incident.
Please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you, but also be assured that this course of action was taken with the safety of our supporters paramount in our thoughts.
He couldve just ignored them or waited the 20 mins as advised no one forced him to leave when he did
And that's the thing.
It was clear when exiting the ground many / most people didn't have a clue what was going on. They saw the horses and were told to turn right. They got to Charlton Lane, to be met with another rown of horses and coppers screaming turn right again (up the hill).
That's fine for me or you, not so if you're in your 70s/80s and didn't see something on the internet just 24hrs before the game. The stewards there were just saying I don't know what's happening. Those people weren't to know they should wait 20 mins, they were just doing what shouting policeman were telling them.
It was ridiculous.
Exactly, as I posted earlier, just walked where I was directed to. I have left a message with Matt Wright to get Mick to phone me to discuss this. I had previously discussed this match with the case worker of the Supporters federation, who take up these issues. Amanda is already involved with the palace game and a complaint against the police from a Charlton fan. Anyone who wishes to make representation to her, here is email is: amanda.jacks@fsf.org.uk. There seems no excuse for poor communication these days, and just posting a story on the web is not good enough. I am sure CAFC will want to address the issues. http://www.castrust.org/2013/03/best-laid-plans-policing-of-saturdays-south-london-derby-chaotic/
Saturdays game was allways going to be a no win situation,let them out first and keep us in and if Millwall win they head off happy,and if they let us out and we win the police would have big problems.I am sure the police were hopeing for a Millwall win.Or we could have been let out at the same time as there thugs(no thanks).The problems we were going to get stems from the handfull of twats at the toolbox,giving it the bigun but not backing it up at our Valley.
When did Millwall fans last cause trouble at the Valley? 1977? Complete over reaction by police and club. The ten police walking round to the covered end with helmets swinging from their belts because one Millwall fan might have celebrated a goal. Pathetic! Charlton fans getting upset because one Millwall fan stood up in upper west to celebrate a goal. Pathetic!
So those saying the Clubs hand were tied by the Police and they were just doing what the Police said were wrong. Quite clearly.
You have missed the most important few words of Micks reply
" once we were aware that the police tactics were not to hold back the away supporters"
No i didnt miss those. The club chose not to follow what the police said which was to put a line up and let everyone out together. The Club chose to close off exits for their own fans. Or have I misunderstood something?
When did Millwall fans last cause trouble at the Valley? 1977? Complete over reaction by police and club. The ten police walking round to the covered end with helmets swinging from their belts because one Millwall fan might have celebrated a goal. Pathetic! Charlton fans getting upset because one Millwall fan stood up in upper west to celebrate a goal. Pathetic!
The first time we played them back at the Valley in the 90's was a bit tasty, it was going off all over the place and when we walked out of the covered end they rushed us and flattened anyone. My daughter would not come to another game with me after that she was terrified.
The elephant in the room is still why the Police decided not to hold Millwall supporters in the stadium. It is common practice by police forces every single week and works well I presume. If the said fans cause trouble whilst being held back they should be arrested.
But keeping those twats back is the obvious way to do it. As was done to Charlton at the toolbox. So why do the police not select the obvious way this time.? note what Mick does NOT say. He does not say the club didn't want the Spanners held back in case they smashed up the Jimmy Seed.
Of course keeping Spanners back means a bit longer before plod can call it a day....
"once we were aware that the Police tactics were not to hold back the away supporters"
Granted the police don't care if the club's 'customers' return. It was feeble of the club to accept the tactics, they should care. I don't see any sign of the club saying they disagreed with the tactics.
The bit about letting those with walking difficulties through Ransom Walk ... very helpful to know about this after the event ... glad I spent a few more quid upgrading tickets from the NWC to the East to make it easier for my dad.
There are various strands of opinion on this. Put crudely:
1. It didn't affect me, can't see the problem
2. The club did nothing much wrong. The post match arrangements were understandable in the the circumstances. If you want to blame someone blame the OB
3. The arrangements were irritating but if motivated by a desire to avoid violence then understandable. There were problems with execution of the plan but again no big deal. However the club's communications were inept at best and at worst reflect a complete lack of respect for paying customers
4. The arrangements were wrong in principle. Millwall fans should have been held back etc.
I'm in the third camp. I'm happy to give the club the benefit of the doubt. However if the club don't make amends as far as the communication side of things is concerned then I won't renew my ST until we've got new owners.
I know that no-one really cares what I do, but at least I'll be true to myself.
Comments
It was clear when exiting the ground many / most people didn't have a clue what was going on. They saw the horses and were told to turn right. They got to Charlton Lane, to be met with another rown of horses and coppers screaming turn right again (up the hill).
That's fine for me or you, not so if you're in your 70s/80s and didn't see something on the internet just 24hrs before the game. The stewards there were just saying I don't know what's happening. Those people weren't to know they should wait 20 mins, they were just doing what shouting policeman were telling them.
It was ridiculous.
But the decision not to allow people to turn left was the ob not the club
It shouldve been in the programme announced over the tannoy
Leaflet dropped on chairs but i also dont believe that people were as niave about the process as some are saying
It really upset me watching him struggle and for what? so those winkers could get out of the ground with ease.
They also wanted an early ob pressence at both ends of floyd rd and the tunnels due to what they had intel gathered leading up to the gamr none of which happend when it was alleged it would
You all left with us at the home game and apart from kids running about like headless chickens filming nothing, sod all happened.
The 4-4 game at yours everyone was allowed to do as they pleased before & after from memory.
Even Saturday, plod were out in force from 9am around the ground & outside every pub, but we walked to the ground without an escort and no trouble.
I just struggle to see this whole bloodbath rubbish. There may have been a few punches thrown but times have long changed since apparently we used to bully & punch every Charlton fan no matter their age, gender etc.
The biggest waste of space was the line of coppers in front of our stand, just standing there like wallies, I presume to stop the tide of thousands who were going to invade the pitch. A complete waste of money.
Thanks for the email regarding the post match arrangements that were put in place for last Saturday’s game versus Millwall.
I am sorry that we seem to have upset a number of our fans, but I am also sure that they were unaware of the circumstances that led to the decision to close Floyd Road post match. I should also add at this point that we did advise supporters of these post match arrangements 24 hours ahead of the game via the club website, and again via the match day programme.
Whilst I cannot go into all of the details behind this decision, what I can say is that it was the club’s decision to ask the Police to close Floyd Road, on the grounds of safety, as we did not want both sets of supporters meeting in this area after the game. We came to this decision because at an earlier local derby game this season against Crystal Palace, a number of spectators were assaulted in Floyd Road, resulting in three supporters suffering head injuries, all of which required hospital treatment. Obviously, we did not wish to see any repeat of this, particularly as Floyd Road can be a flashpoint. Indeed both the club and the Police received a number of complaints from spectators saying that at high risk fixtures, home and away fans should not be allowed to exit together.
You may also be unaware that due to the poor behaviour of a minority of Charlton fans at the corresponding fixture at the Den before Christmas, when seats were broken, and a couple of them thrown towards the pitch, smoke bombs were ignited, and a marine flare thrown onto the pitch. There was also serious disorder post match between rival supporters. These actions resulted in what should have been a normal derby match, posing a much greater risk, as the Police intelligence confirmed to us that an element of the Millwall support were looking for retribution, and our overriding concern was the safety of all of our supporters.
As I am sure you are aware, as a club, we have no jurisdiction in relation to matters outside of the stadium, and once we were aware that the Police tactics were not to hold back the away supporters, our first concern was the potential ‘flashpoint’ in Floyd Road.
Whilst the Police advised us that they would have plenty of officers, and horses in that area to keep the fans apart, the safety team at the Club were not as confident, particularly once supporters reached the station and mingled together.
It was because of the above factors that we agreed to assist Police with the road closures. At no time were spectators held back or 'penned in'. the stadium. Ransom Walk was available for exit from 14.42, just twelve minutes after the final whistle went.
Once the Police confirmed that they had put a number of away ‘risk’ supporters on a train and this had left Charlton station, the Police were able to re-open Floyd Road to those supporters that remained behind at the stadium in the bars and concourses having a drink. At this stage, the Police had already re-opened Ransom Walk ten minutes or so earlier, so that supporters could access the lower Woolwich Road.
As regards Charlton Lane, the British Transport Police had concerns about the number of persons who might use the crossing and stressed the fact that any incident or near miss on the crossing would result in the closure of the line. This is why the Police closed off access to the rail crossing in Charlton Lane, although we were unaware that they were going to reinforce this area. We were under the impression that supporters would be filtered through here as opposed to it being completely closed off. It seems that the Police in this area did not use their discretion, something their colleagues in Ransom Walk did, as they allowed elderly supporters and those with walking difficulties to use Ransom Walk as and when they arrived in that area.
I am aware that some of our supporters were upset with these post match arrangements, but I accept full responsibility for these, and from a safety perspective, everybody managed to exit the area in a safe manner without incident.
Please accept my sincere apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you, but also be assured that this course of action was taken with the safety of our supporters paramount in our thoughts.
I have left a message with Matt Wright to get Mick to phone me to discuss this.
I had previously discussed this match with the case worker of the Supporters federation, who take up these issues. Amanda is already involved with the palace game and a complaint against the police from a Charlton fan.
Anyone who wishes to make representation to her, here is email is: amanda.jacks@fsf.org.uk.
There seems no excuse for poor communication these days, and just posting a story on the web is not good enough. I am sure CAFC will want to address the issues.
http://www.castrust.org/2013/03/best-laid-plans-policing-of-saturdays-south-london-derby-chaotic/
" once we were aware that the police tactics were not to hold back the away supporters"
Of course keeping Spanners back means a bit longer before plod can call it a day....
Granted the police don't care if the club's 'customers' return. It was feeble of the club to accept the tactics, they should care. I don't see any sign of the club saying they disagreed with the tactics.
The bit about letting those with walking difficulties through Ransom Walk ... very helpful to know about this after the event ... glad I spent a few more quid upgrading tickets from the NWC to the East to make it easier for my dad.
Poor.
1. It didn't affect me, can't see the problem
2. The club did nothing much wrong. The post match arrangements were understandable in the the circumstances. If you want to blame someone blame the OB
3. The arrangements were irritating but if motivated by a desire to avoid violence then understandable. There were problems with execution of the plan but again no big deal. However the club's communications were inept at best and at worst reflect a complete lack of respect for paying customers
4. The arrangements were wrong in principle. Millwall fans should have been held back etc.
I'm in the third camp. I'm happy to give the club the benefit of the doubt. However if the club don't make amends as far as the communication side of things is concerned then I won't renew my ST until we've got new owners.
I know that no-one really cares what I do, but at least I'll be true to myself.