Powell seems to be stuck between trying to get results or starting to develop a system for next season. To play exciting football we'll need a proper playmaker, a good all round midfielder, a front 2 or 3 who can play together, full backs who can offer width going forward.
Most of that isn't here and the few players that can play it can't do it on their own.
We all want both good football and results don't we? Then we will have to be patient. As long as we grind out a couple more wins we won't be relegated. I said a few weeks ago with this squad we'll only make the play-offs playing direct football but was told that was rubbish and look at Brighton. Pretty obvious now we just don't have the players for it. Have another look at Brighton, it takes time and a few quality signings can really improve a team.
This, from the most consistently insightful analyst among us.
If there was ever a time to be patient and cut the bitching and show our loyalty to the club, this is it.
As Airman correctly reminds us, we've been saved from administration and the mismanagement that got us here is now hopefully a thing of the past. I've talked to the new owners and as far as I can judge from what they say in fairly guarded fashion, they have a plan - and it has a better chance of working than anything else we've seen in the last three or four catastrophic years.
Not the time to be tormenting ourselves about Parkinson and the past and deriding Powell as ''clueless''. Time for all to pull together, get behind the board and the new manager and be a part of the better future which is coming. And if such positivity is insufferable to some, then tough...
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]Something to bear in mind about today is that two of Powell's substitutions, Fortune and Solly, were almost certainly injury enforced rather than tactical.
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Airman I have more respect than most on here but come on, he works for the club FFS.
That didn't stop me pointing out a year ago that we had an out-of-his-depth and non-functioning chief executive being paid a ridiculous salary, did it?
My personal opinion is that Parky is a nice guy, a mediocre manager and a poor judge of players, based on the squad he assembled. I think he did what he could. As people have pointed out, his record isn't all bad and it would have been easier if it was, because he would have gone sooner. But he was always going to be sacked, even if we'd got up through the play-offs last year. It was just a question of when.
It's hard for anyone to keep a cool head in the current situation, but even if Chris Powell was as naive or useless as some people now want to suggest it's seriously unlikely that this applies to Keith Peacock, an experienced manager at this level and someone who has been heavily involved in the oversight of our team at Premier League level in more recent times. On the contrary, the problem is that however you set the team up too many of the players aren't good enough.
Wagstaff and Racon both missed good chances yesterday, Racon and Llera both drew great saves from their keeper and Llera hit the bar. Objectively we were probably a bit unlucky to lose, the problem is that the defeat comes off the back of the previous six results. But I don't think we have been as pitiful in any of these games as we were against Walsall or Swindon, which performances got Parky sacked. And like it or not they were his players. I don't see anything wrong with the signings made since Jan 1st, all of whom have been of higher quality than what we had before.
As it happens, I find McCormack's continued inclusion as baffling as anyone else, I don't know why it took so long to leave out Francis and I think we should have seen Solly sooner rather than later, but managers always make decisions that baffle supporters, whatever the level. Sometimes they are proven right, sometimes wrong. Curbs persisted with Jamie Stuart long after most of us had decided he wasn't up to it.
I hope Chris goes on to be a great Charlton manager and I think he might, but there are no guarantees. I know he cares about what is happening as much as anyone on here, which I couldn't have said of any other recent manager, and I think he deserves our support because of who he is and what he has done regardless. But I don't doubt that if his position becomes untenable he will go - or that the people who own the club will make sure we get back into the Championship sooner rather than later, whatever that entails.
This is an ugly situation and the patience of Charlton supporters is being tried as never before - well, perhaps excepting Selhurst Park. I look at it from a supporter's perspective, because it's never been primarily a job to me and I am lucky in that I could walk away from that if I chose. The board sees what we all see; the difference is they know what can be done in the summer to change it. Let's not make it any uglier than it is.
[cite]Posted By: Off_it[/cite]Geezer behind me yesterday was talking to his mate about how Powell had switched to wearing a tracksuit rather than a suit.
[cite]Posted By: Southendaddick[/cite]Airman I have more respect than most on here but come on, he works for the club FFS.
That didn't stop me pointing out a year ago that we had an out-of-his-depth and non-functioning chief executive being paid a ridiculous salary, did it?
My personal opinion is that Parky is a nice guy, a mediocre manager and a poor judge of players, based on the squad he assembled. I think he did what he could. As people have pointed out, his record isn't all bad and it would have been easier if it was, because he would have gone sooner. But he was always going to be sacked, even if we'd got up through the play-offs last year. It was just a question of when.
It's hard for anyone to keep a cool head in the current situation, but even if Chris Powell was as naive or useless as some people now want to suggest it's seriously unlikely that this applies to Keith Peacock, an experienced manager at this level and someone who has been heavily involved in the oversight of our team at Premier League level in more recent times. On the contrary, the problem is that however you set the team up too many of the players aren't good enough.
Wagstaff and Racon both missed good chances yesterday, Racon and Llera both drew great saves from their keeper and Llera hit the bar. Objectively we were probably a bit unlucky to lose, the problem is that the defeat comes off the back of the previous six results. But I don't think we have been as pitiful in any of these games as we were against Walsall or Swindon, which performances got Parky sacked. And like it or not they were his players. I don't see anything wrong with the signings made since Jan 1st, all of whom have been of higher quality than what we had before.
As it happens, I find McCormack's continued inclusion as baffling as anyone else, I don't know why it took so long to leave out Francis and I think we should have seen Solly sooner rather than later, but managers always make decisions that baffle supporters, whatever the level. Sometimes they are proven right, sometimes wrong. Curbs persisted with Jamie Stuart long after most of us had decided he wasn't up to it.
I hope Chris goes on to be a great Charlton manager and I think he might, but there are no guarantees. I know he cares about what is happening as much as anyone on here, which I couldn't have said of any other recent manager, and I think he deserves our support because of who he is and what he has done regardless. But I don't doubt that if his position becomes untenable he will go - or that the people who own the club will make sure we get back into the Championship sooner rather than later, whatever that entails.
This is an ugly situation and the patience of Charlton supporters is being tried as never before - well, perhaps excepting Selhurst Park. I look at it from a supporter's perspective, because it's never been primarily a job to me and I am lucky in that I could walk away from that if I chose. The board sees what we all see; the difference is they know what can be done in the summer to change it. Let's not make it any uglier than it is.
An interesting take Airman.
You mention the board knowing what can be done in the summer, but realistically I can't see them throwing substantial cash around.
It is clear to everyone on here that 90% of the players in our squad are incapable of buying into this "supposed" change of footballing ethos, does that mean we will have the funds to replace 90% of the squad with better players? I have my doubts.
ok two names curbs and gritty! given lots of time to get it right (well gritty wasnt!) but curbs was at upton park , the first years back at the valley the expectations of the fans was lower (RIGHT!!) but also the players played for the badge with heart, soul guts and spirit! i think because we have been in the prem cafc as a club got higher expectations and as a result now we rubbished every manager since curbs because we want better i want better too and i do find myself saying that was shite and get rid of that man manager or player!! i used to go to matches alot with my dad and friends etc but i cant go as much now (money etc) been 5 times this season and loved being in the valley (apart from brighton game) at the end was cross with result! so im not going to go against the great fans who go to games week in week out but i think the new board have to put money up and get better players in the summer (if we are still in league one) i think we will be! get charlton type players older players etc! to many young players here! so thats why there heads go down then something goes wrong we also need more leaders on the pitch!.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]Something to bear in mind about today is that two ofPowell'ssubstitutions, Fortune and Solly, were almost certainly injury enforced rather than tactical.
*Dyer's
*Powell's.
The fact he had a touchline ban didn't necessaruily stop him calling the shots. Telephone/walkie talkie to the dug out perhaps.
[cite] And if such positivity is insufferable to some, then tough...
Not Scoham's positivity (which I agree with completely, something you won't be able to understand) that is insufferable but nice attempt to deflect the criticism.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]The fact he had a touchline ban didn't necessaruily stop him calling the shots. Telephone/walkie talkie to the dug out perhaps.
Thanks to the takeover we have dispensed with the tin cans and string.
[cite]And if such positivity is insufferable to some, then tough...[/cite]
[cite]
Not Scoham's positivity (which I agree with completely, something you won't be able to understand) that is insufferable but nice attempt to deflect the criticism.[/cite]
Oh dear.
My old fruit - how can I put this? If you find it amusing to go into a post and deliberately alter someone's name, then you really are a little bit ...desperate (and outside the conventions of civility and courtesy which we sign up to as members of this forum). Should we all start calling you Irksome Irving or Henry Hypocrite? Is that amusing? Or appropriate? Of course it isn't.
And it's rather sad, when all some of us trying to say is that it really is time for all Charlton fans to pull together, show our loyalty and stop indulging in such bitchy pettiness and backbiting.
Never mind. Those of us trying to put out a positive message will simply rise above it and concentrate on supporting the club.
This site increasingly resembles a mob of tantrum-throwing toddlers. We need to grow up, get some perspective and heed the mature advice of Airman and Scoham.
[cite]And if such positivity is insufferable to some, then tough...[/cite]
[cite]
Not Scoham's positivity (which I agree with completely, something you won't be able to understand) that is insufferable but nice attempt to deflect the criticism.[/cite]
Oh dear.
My old fruit - how can I put this? If you find it amusing to go into a post and deliberately alter someone's name, then you really are a little bit ...desperate (and outside the conventions of civility and courtesy which we sign up to as members of this forum). Should we all start calling you Irksome Irving or Henry Hypocrite? Is that amusing? Or appropriate? Of course it isn't.
And it's rather sad, when all some of us trying to say is that it really is time for all Charlton fans to pull together, show our loyalty and stop indulging in such bitchy pettiness and backbiting.
Never mind. Those of us trying to put out a positive message will simply rise above it and concentrate on supporting the club.
Here here!! Can we cut out the petty points scoring.Henry you seem to have a problem with incorruptible i have no idea what it is about nor do i want to know. We are all Charlton fans with different views. Lets respect those views, we don't have to agree with them but this petty oneupmanship and childishness is both irksome and tiresome.
[cite]And if such positivity is insufferable to some, then tough...[/cite]
[cite]
Not Scoham's positivity (which I agree with completely, something you won't be able to understand) that is insufferable but nice attempt to deflect the criticism.[/cite]
Oh dear.
My old fruit - how can I put this? If you find it amusing to go into a post and deliberately alter someone's name, then you really are a little bit ...desperate (and outside the conventions of civility and courtesy which we sign up to as members of this forum). Should we all start calling you Irksome Irving or Henry Hypocrite? Is that amusing? Or appropriate? Of course it isn't.
And it's rather sad, when all some of us trying to say is that it really is time for all Charlton fans to pull together, show our loyalty and stop indulging in such bitchy pettiness and backbiting.
Never mind. Those of us trying to put out a positive message will simply rise above it and concentrate on supporting the club.
It wasn't me that re-christened you Insufferable Addick. I think it was Oggy but as it was so apt I notice that quite a few people have started using it.
It's very rich coming from you to start asking fans to move on and all pull together. If only you had shown such qualities during Powell's first four games. But no, you gloated, you threw in as many snide digs as you could and even the mild mannered Aliwibble pulled you up on it. How you enjoyed mentioning the "liars?" thread again and again. How you gloried in the the clean sheets as proof that Doc et al had been turned into good defenders by wonderful coaching and motivation far beyond the abilities of the "last bloke". That's why now you protestations of innocence and "let's all pull together" are sound totally hollow and false.
And now you are trying to claim that anyone who criticises YOU is not being positive. I seem to remember you were very quick to attack anyone who was positive before as "rose tinted" and "complacent". Your hypocrisy and inability to see your own contradictions are staggering. I really think you just can't see it.
For the record I'm not gay so "fruit" isn't a word you need to use. Strange insult to use but there you go. Maybe it is a generational thing but you know what the term means. Not really concerned but why bring sexuality into it at all?
We need to be positive and get behind the manager and team. We need to move on from Parky, he's gone. Maybe if you could stop having a dig at him in just about every single post you make that would help us all do that. I know that will be hard for you but maybe you could just give it a try.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]So when Parky ... didn't win for 11 games it wasn't his fault because Pardew had left him with a crap squad. So what is the difference now then?
Good question.
Powell took on a team averaging 1.8 points per game (last 10 games), which is triple the 0.6 ppg when Parky took over.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]So when Parky ... didn't win for 11 games it wasn't his fault because Pardew had left him with a crap squad. So what is the difference now then?
Good question.
Powell took on a team averaging 1.8 points per game (last 10 games), which is triple the 0.6 ppg when Parky took over. You won't like it but there's your answer.
Not the same situation - Parky was not totally new to the set-up.
Powell has the same problem as Wenger, we lack players with a bit about them. None can handle adversity, all their heads drop or too few stand up and be counted at the right or crucial times. We have quality players but they lack that little bit, balls if you will, that allows you carry on when everything is against you.
We need three of four players next season that have that and we will see a marked improvement, also we need some nouse and potentially some nastiness in the middle. For all his tough tackles semedo is too nice, we need a right eveil sod in the Bowyer mold
The only thing that is giving me optimism is that Leeds took 3 seasons to get out of this division, albeit with a better squad and play-offs in the first 2 seasons. Still I hope...
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]So when Parky ... didn't win for 11 games it wasn't his fault because Pardew had left him with a crap squad. So what is the difference now then?
Good question.
Powell took on a team averaging 1.8 points per game (last 10 games), which is triple the 0.6 ppg when Parky took over. You won't like it but there's your answer.
Not the same situation - Parky was not totally new to the set-up.
And the average points improvement was in a lower league with poorer teams so the answer's irrelevant. Unless you'd also say that if we got relegated to league 2 and next year averaged 2 points per game then powelly's an improvement on Parky? Ofcourse not, different circumstances so the points average means nothing.
It is understandable that some simply judge Chris Powell's performance as manager on the number of games that the Addicks have won since he took over from Parkinson. However, winning a game of football is heavily influenced not only by how well the team is doing but also by outside events that are completely beyond the control of the manager. Away games, poor refereeing decisions and injuries all impact on the result of each match and as such cannot be blamed on the manager.
Change of subject. The owners need to come up with a series of milestones that can be utilised to measure ongoing pre-defined improvements to the team, individual players, their spirit and the way they plays etc etc etc. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that we lacked a game plan...I think the problem is bigger than that. We need a set of club/team/player strategies.
[cite]Posted By: Absolutely off it[/cite]Geezer behind me yesterday was talking to his mate about how Powell had switched to wearing a tracksuit rather than a suit.
Absolute fcuking idiot.
So what was he wearing and why does you listening into their conversation make them absolutely Fing idiots ?
[cite]Posted By: Absolutely off it[/cite]Geezer behind me yesterday was talking to his mate about how Powell had switched to wearing a tracksuit rather than a suit.
Absolute fcuking idiot.
So what was he wearing and why does you listening into their conversation make them absolutely Fing idiots ?
Because Powell was sitting in the stands on his touchline ban and the bloke in the tracksuit was therefore obviously not him, but Alex Dyer.
[cite]Posted By: Absolutely off it[/cite]Geezer behind me yesterday was talking to his mate about how Powell had switched to wearing a tracksuit rather than a suit.
Absolute fcuking idiot.
So what was he wearing and why does you listening into their conversation make them absolutely Fing idiots ?
Err ....... maybe my post was referring to the fact that Powell wasn't on the touchline yesterday - it was Dyer in the tracksuit.
Clearly they were absolutely fcuking idiots, possibly utter tossers, but what does it have to do with Powell's competence which is what the thread is about ?
Comments
This, from the most consistently insightful analyst among us.
If there was ever a time to be patient and cut the bitching and show our loyalty to the club, this is it.
As Airman correctly reminds us, we've been saved from administration and the mismanagement that got us here is now hopefully a thing of the past. I've talked to the new owners and as far as I can judge from what they say in fairly guarded fashion, they have a plan - and it has a better chance of working than anything else we've seen in the last three or four catastrophic years.
Not the time to be tormenting ourselves about Parkinson and the past and deriding Powell as ''clueless''. Time for all to pull together, get behind the board and the new manager and be a part of the better future which is coming. And if such positivity is insufferable to some, then tough...
*Dyer's
Absolute fcuking idiot.
That didn't stop me pointing out a year ago that we had an out-of-his-depth and non-functioning chief executive being paid a ridiculous salary, did it?
My personal opinion is that Parky is a nice guy, a mediocre manager and a poor judge of players, based on the squad he assembled. I think he did what he could. As people have pointed out, his record isn't all bad and it would have been easier if it was, because he would have gone sooner. But he was always going to be sacked, even if we'd got up through the play-offs last year. It was just a question of when.
It's hard for anyone to keep a cool head in the current situation, but even if Chris Powell was as naive or useless as some people now want to suggest it's seriously unlikely that this applies to Keith Peacock, an experienced manager at this level and someone who has been heavily involved in the oversight of our team at Premier League level in more recent times. On the contrary, the problem is that however you set the team up too many of the players aren't good enough.
Wagstaff and Racon both missed good chances yesterday, Racon and Llera both drew great saves from their keeper and Llera hit the bar. Objectively we were probably a bit unlucky to lose, the problem is that the defeat comes off the back of the previous six results. But I don't think we have been as pitiful in any of these games as we were against Walsall or Swindon, which performances got Parky sacked. And like it or not they were his players. I don't see anything wrong with the signings made since Jan 1st, all of whom have been of higher quality than what we had before.
As it happens, I find McCormack's continued inclusion as baffling as anyone else, I don't know why it took so long to leave out Francis and I think we should have seen Solly sooner rather than later, but managers always make decisions that baffle supporters, whatever the level. Sometimes they are proven right, sometimes wrong. Curbs persisted with Jamie Stuart long after most of us had decided he wasn't up to it.
I hope Chris goes on to be a great Charlton manager and I think he might, but there are no guarantees. I know he cares about what is happening as much as anyone on here, which I couldn't have said of any other recent manager, and I think he deserves our support because of who he is and what he has done regardless. But I don't doubt that if his position becomes untenable he will go - or that the people who own the club will make sure we get back into the Championship sooner rather than later, whatever that entails.
This is an ugly situation and the patience of Charlton supporters is being tried as never before - well, perhaps excepting Selhurst Park. I look at it from a supporter's perspective, because it's never been primarily a job to me and I am lucky in that I could walk away from that if I chose. The board sees what we all see; the difference is they know what can be done in the summer to change it. Let's not make it any uglier than it is.
quality, as bad as the multi-ball system woes!
An interesting take Airman.
You mention the board knowing what can be done in the summer, but realistically I can't see them throwing substantial cash around.
It is clear to everyone on here that 90% of the players in our squad are incapable of buying into this "supposed" change of footballing ethos, does that mean we will have the funds to replace 90% of the squad with better players? I have my doubts.
*Powell's.
The fact he had a touchline ban didn't necessaruily stop him calling the shots. Telephone/walkie talkie to the dug out perhaps.
Oh dear.
My old fruit - how can I put this? If you find it amusing to go into a post and deliberately alter someone's name, then you really are a little bit ...desperate (and outside the conventions of civility and courtesy which we sign up to as members of this forum). Should we all start calling you Irksome Irving or Henry Hypocrite? Is that amusing? Or appropriate? Of course it isn't.
And it's rather sad, when all some of us trying to say is that it really is time for all Charlton fans to pull together, show our loyalty and stop indulging in such bitchy pettiness and backbiting.
Never mind. Those of us trying to put out a positive message will simply rise above it and concentrate on supporting the club.
Here here!! Can we cut out the petty points scoring.Henry you seem to have a problem with incorruptible i have no idea what it is about nor do i want to know. We are all Charlton fans with different views. Lets respect those views, we don't have to agree with them but this petty oneupmanship and childishness is both irksome and tiresome.
It wasn't me that re-christened you Insufferable Addick. I think it was Oggy but as it was so apt I notice that quite a few people have started using it.
It's very rich coming from you to start asking fans to move on and all pull together. If only you had shown such qualities during Powell's first four games. But no, you gloated, you threw in as many snide digs as you could and even the mild mannered Aliwibble pulled you up on it. How you enjoyed mentioning the "liars?" thread again and again. How you gloried in the the clean sheets as proof that Doc et al had been turned into good defenders by wonderful coaching and motivation far beyond the abilities of the "last bloke". That's why now you protestations of innocence and "let's all pull together" are sound totally hollow and false.
And now you are trying to claim that anyone who criticises YOU is not being positive. I seem to remember you were very quick to attack anyone who was positive before as "rose tinted" and "complacent". Your hypocrisy and inability to see your own contradictions are staggering. I really think you just can't see it.
For the record I'm not gay so "fruit" isn't a word you need to use. Strange insult to use but there you go. Maybe it is a generational thing but you know what the term means. Not really concerned but why bring sexuality into it at all?
We need to be positive and get behind the manager and team. We need to move on from Parky, he's gone. Maybe if you could stop having a dig at him in just about every single post you make that would help us all do that. I know that will be hard for you but maybe you could just give it a try.
Please
Powell took on a team averaging 1.8 points per game (last 10 games), which is triple the 0.6 ppg when Parky took over.
Not the same situation - Parky was not totally new to the set-up.
We need three of four players next season that have that and we will see a marked improvement, also we need some nouse and potentially some nastiness in the middle. For all his tough tackles semedo is too nice, we need a right eveil sod in the Bowyer mold
The same Wenger whose Arsenal side lie 2nd in the Premiership you mean?
it was said slightly tongue in cheek, but his side lack the ability to win anything anymore because they are so full of luxury flat track bullies
And the average points improvement was in a lower league with poorer teams so the answer's irrelevant. Unless you'd also say that if we got relegated to league 2 and next year averaged 2 points per game then powelly's an improvement on Parky? Ofcourse not, different circumstances so the points average means nothing.
Change of subject. The owners need to come up with a series of milestones that can be utilised to measure ongoing pre-defined improvements to the team, individual players, their spirit and the way they plays etc etc etc. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that we lacked a game plan...I think the problem is bigger than that. We need a set of club/team/player strategies.
This club is drifting and in the wrong direction.
So what was he wearing and why does you listening into their conversation make them absolutely Fing idiots ?
Because Powell was sitting in the stands on his touchline ban and the bloke in the tracksuit was therefore obviously not him, but Alex Dyer.
Err ....... maybe my post was referring to the fact that Powell wasn't on the touchline yesterday - it was Dyer in the tracksuit.
Get me now?
Or didn't you notice?