[cite]Posted By: PL54[/cite]Clearly they were absolutely fcuking idiots, possibly utter tossers, but what does it have to do with Powell's competence which is what the thread is about ?
But you asked why that made them idiots, didn't you? But now you are agreeing with me.
Anyway since when did I need a point to post shite? I'm fluent at it.
However, if there was a (very loose) point, it was that if "Powell ain't got a clue" then clearly neither have some of our fans, not if they don't even recognise that it's not Powell standing there. All clear and tickety boo now fella?
[cite]Posted By: PL54[/cite]Clearly they were absolutely fcuking idiots, possibly utter tossers, but what does it have to do with Powell's competence which is what the thread is about ?
But you asked why that made them idiots, didn't you? But now you are agreeing with me.
Anyway since when did I need a point to post shite? I'm fluent at it.
However, if there was a (very loose) point, it was that if "Powell ain't got a clue" then clearly neither have some of our fans, not if they don't even recognise that it's not Powell standing there. All clear and tickety boo now fella?
Our fans don't get paid to have a clue, nor do they have the hopes of others linked to the clue they do or don't have. Fella'
As great a full back as he was, and as many times as he leapt out of the tunnel as he did, he is out of his depth right now.
right, normally the moaners and groaners come out of the woodwork after a bad result. Having been a long time lurker I'm going to post a comment. Yesterday's result was unlucky. We were by far the better team in the second half after a dismal first half in which both teams were utter shite. Powell was afforded a luxury in his first few games that Parky never was, which was patience. If at 0-0 under Parky you knew that the boos would be echoing out. Powell was afforded this luxury, and this in itself seemed to bring a renewed impotus to the team. Even though I feel Parky was badly treated in his time in charge, I think a lot of the crowds positivity played a part in the 2nd half performance v Plymouth and our reaction against the goal that never was v Colchester.
Under Parky promotion was imperative, and it was implied that failure to do so would lead to administration and possibly worse. Since Powell has taken charge, it has been noted that promotion would be a bonus this year, and that next year would be the time when he would be judged. None of us know if this is right, given that it would have seemed that the new owner were backing the manager when they took over. But given the players we have (or had) a direct style suited the team, even if it wasn't pleasing to the eye. Promotion at no cost makes results the be all and end all, regardless of performance (eg Notts County at home, MK Dons at home). A success in gaining promotion, but a turn off in the entertainment stakes. What do we want? Promotion was never guarenteed under Parky, but looks near on impossible now. Yes it's bloody depressing, but surely calling for the managers head isn't going to improve performances/results? Some people thought that anyone could do better than Parky with the resources available, obviously that's not the case. If there is to be a change in footballing philosophy under Chris that will take time, regardless of the first 4 wins under his tenure. Has he got it? Nobody knows. Unless you sit in that dressing room, or have close contact with those that do we will probably never know. Only time wil tell.
Been on the sauce tonight, felt I had to comment. I'll probably be ripped to shreds, but nobody can deny it's been depressing these last few years. Somebody has come in who obviously cares about the club, something we've suupposedly strived for for a long time. I would love Chris to get it right. He's already a legend to me and many others. People might talk about relegation but honestly it's unlikely.
Some wins though would be nice.... Please! I'll be there next at Southampton. God knows why. Coyr.
Nice work PL54, a little bit more manouvering and maybe you can dig your way out of this before anyone notices. We're all supporting you on it, even though I may not share your views.
PS. If you want to come gunning again then please do by all means, but you'll have to do better than that. Chum.
[cite]Posted By: BeckenhamAddick[/cite]right, normally the moaners and groaners come out of the woodwork after a bad result. Having been a long time lurker I'm going to post a comment. Yesterday's result was unlucky. We were by far the better team in the second half after a dismal first half in which both teams were utter shite. Powell was afforded a luxury in his first few games that Parky never was, which was patience. If at 0-0 under Parky you knew that the boos would be echoing out. Powell was afforded this luxury, and this in itself seemed to bring a renewed impotus to the team. Even though I feel Parky was badly treated in his time in charge, I think a lot of the crowds positivity played a part in the 2nd half performance v Plymouth and our reaction against the goal that never was v Colchester.
Under Parky promotion was imperative, and it was implied that failure to do so would lead to administration and possibly worse. Since Powell has taken charge, it has been noted that promotion would be a bonus this year, and that next year would be the time when he would be judged. None of us know if this is right, given that it would have seemed that the new owner were backing the manager when they took over. But given the players we have (or had) a direct style suited the team, even if it wasn't pleasing to the eye. Promotion at no cost makes results the be all and end all, regardless of performance (eg Notts County at home, MK Dons at home). A success in gaining promotion, but a turn off in the entertainment stakes. What do we want? Promotion was never guarenteed under Parky, but looks near on impossible now. Yes it's bloody depressing, but surely calling for the managers head isn't going to improve performances/results? Some people thought that anyone could do better than Parky with the resources available, obviously that's not the case. If there is to be a change in footballing philosophy under Chris that will take time, regardless of the first 4 wins under his tenure. Has he got it? Nobody knows. Unless you sit in that dressing room, or have close contact with those that do we will probably never know. Only time wil tell.
Been on the sauce tonight, felt I had to comment. I'll probably be ripped to shreds, but nobody can deny it's been depressing these last few years. Somebody has come in who obviously cares about the club, something we've suupposedly strived for for a long time. I would love Chris to get it right. He's already a legend to me and many others. People might talk about relegation but honestly it's unlikely.
Some wins though would be nice.... Please! I'll be there next at Southampton. God knows why. Coyr.
Well put. I wasn't at the match yesterday but watched listened on player and watched the highlights. Its the context of the result rather than the result itself thats the problem. If we'd won our last 4 games the reaction to this result would be far less hysterical
Parkinson failed to stop us free-falling from the championship, signing a lot of loan players in the process, trying to change our style of play (he wanted us more combative and harder to beat) and their are a lot of similarities between then and now, though I think we have enough points on board to keep us up.
Hopefully Powell is given the patience by the board and the fans and is afforded the opportunity to sign his own players, take the team through a pre season and have a tilt at this division next season.
My worry is if he will be allowed to do this without interference. With Jiminez and possibly Vetere on board I hope that the players we are signing now and will sign in the summer are Powells choices and not imposed on him. If Vetere does come on board I hope it isn't a sign that the board are losing confidence in Powell like some of the fans seem to be at the moment.
[cite]Posted By: BeckenhamAddick[/cite]Under Parky promotion was imperative, and it was implied that failure to do so would lead to administration and possibly worse. Since Powell has taken charge, it has been noted that promotion would be a bonus this year, and that next year would be the time when he would be judged.
Not at all what Slater said at the time:
[cite]Michael Slater:[/cite]"Last night's defeat [to Swindon] convinced us as a board that change is required now while we are still in the hunt for promotion, and that we must appoint a new manager to give us every chance of going up."
[cite]Michael Slater:[/cite]"Last night's defeat [to Swindon] convinced us as a board that change is required now while we are still in the hunt for promotion, and that we must appoint a new manager to give us every chance of going up."
[cite]Michael Slater:[/cite]"Last night's defeat [to Swindon] convinced us as a board that change is required now while we are still in the hunt for promotion, and that we must appoint a new manager to give us every chance of going up."
he didn't specify which season tho ;-)
That statement will come back to haunt Slater, no doubt about it.
Replacing a manager when you are fifth and two points off automatic promotion is a big, big decision to make and you had better make damned sure you get the right man in to take over or you are going to look like a complete ++++.
Well, come the end of the season when we trawl home in 14th place I would say that Mr. Slater is going to feel a right prat. I certainly would in his shoes.
To my mind, and I said this at the time, the only conditions in which you can reasonably sack a manager as we did with Parkinson is if you have a big - and I do mean big by L1 standards - replacement in to take his place and - this is the crucial bit - if you are prepared to chuck some serious money his way to put a team on the park that is head and shoulders above the rest of the division.
What did Slater do? He brings in a novice manager and then - BWP apart - gives him nothing but rookie loanees like Ecclestone and the two new guys - where is the sense in that?
If Powell takes us from 5th to - let's be generous - and say 12th in the table by the end of the season then on what grounds could you possibly have confidence in him to rebuild the squad for next season?
Airman Brown hinted in a past post that Parky was not trusted with the transfer budget and that was partly why he was sacked. Well, OK, if that is the case then surely you must then bring in a manager with a proven transfer record rather than Powell who has never spent a penny in the transfer market?
I am not calling for Powell's sacking but he has got to improve things by a long, long way before I would be able to feel confident that he can get us out of this league next season.
So far he has shown very, very little to convince most rational observers. For an example, where is the sense in releasing two limited but proven L1 strikers like Sodje and Abbott and replacing them with totally unproven loanees like Ecclestone - who will be a class player one day - and Nouble?
Thank God for Ormiston Addick and Scoham - the best analyst's on this forum IMO.
On this specific issue I am broadly with you Ormy - although I cannot see that the board will allow this slide to continue unabated until the end of the season whereupon Powell will supposedly be allowed some kind of fresh start with a mythical "whole new squad", as some on here touting.
I would like to see some evidence now that he knows what he is doing
Sacking Powell now would be absolutely ridiculous, and would make us a complete laughing stock. I very much doubt that the board have considered it. To have 3 managers in a season is ridiculous and would leave Slater looking very foolish. The realistic solution is to write this season off (and see promotion as an unexpected bonus if it happens) and then invest wisely in the summer. In regards to who or what is to blame for this mess, it is very hard to tell whether it is manager inexperience, player incompetence or coaching incompetence. I suspect it is a mixture of all 3. Having said that, I firmly believe that this squad is good enough to challenge in this league, and that Powell is the right man for the job; he just needs time, some money and perhaps a word or two of advice, from Keith Peacock maybe. Hopefully he will receive the board's full backing to make necessary squad changes and push for promotion next season.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]
So far he has shown very, very little to convince most rational observers. For an example, where is the sense in releasing two limited but proven L1 strikers like Sodje and Abbott and replacing them with totally unproven loanees like Ecclestone - who will be a class player one day - and Nouble?
Firstly, Eccleston signed for Charlton on January 13th; Chris Powell was appointed the following day. Whatever the merits of the signing, the decision cannot be credited to Powell.
Abbott's departure was entirely driven by the player. The choice for Chris would have been to have block his desire to move and insist he stayed, when both parties knew the player did not want to stay and was unlikely to have a medium-term future at the club.
Sodje's main use was nuisance value. He had scored once in two starts and 19 sub appearances this season; Eccleston has scored twice in about half that number. Both Eccleston and Nouble, I would suggest, have more to offer than Sodje and Abbott, and are already better footballers despite their comparative youth.
As loanees, both are likely to leave in the summer and create space for permanent signings who are both of a higher quality and better value for money than Sodje and Abbott. It was prudent to take the opportunity to get shot of two players who were never good enough to play for Charlton.
You can disagree with that, of course, but to describe the choices made as lacking sense is just plain daft.
What Ormiston Addick said , just about sums it all up really. Slater has done an excellent job of making himself look like a d1ck , lets hope him and powell redeem themselfs next season with promotion otherwise the shit will hit the fan. Ahmen.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]
So far he has shown very, very little to convince most rational observers. For an example, where is the sense in releasing two limited but proven L1 strikers like Sodje and Abbott and replacing them with totally unproven loanees like Ecclestone - who will be a class player one day - and Nouble?
Firstly, Eccleston signed for Charlton on January 13th; Chris Powell was appointed the following day. Whatever the merits of the signing, the decision cannot be credited to Powell.
Abbott's departure was entirely driven by the player. The choice for Chris would have been to have block his desire to move and insist he stayed, when both parties knew the player did not want to stay and was unlikely to have a medium-term future at the club.
Sodje's main use was nuisance value. He had scored once in two starts and 19 sub appearances this season; Eccleston has scored twice in about half that number. Both Eccleston and Nouble, I would suggest, have more to offer than Sodje and Abbott, and are already better footballers despite their comparative youth.
As loanees, both are likely to leave in the summer and create space for permanent signings who are both of a higher quality and better value for money than Sodje and Abbott. It was prudent to take the opportunity to get shot of two players who were never good enough to play for Charlton.
You can disagree with that, of course, but to describe the choices made as lacking sense is just plain daft.
Fair enough Airman, I take your points on board, I did not know that Abbott engineered his transfer but I feel you are being a tad harsh on Akpo!
Anyway, my main feeling is that success in this league comes from hardened pros who can handle the physicality and I don't think any of the players brought in by Powell - barring BWP - fit this mould at all.
Blinde Freddie could tell you we need a pacy centre-half, a creative midfielder and a target-man/link-player and so far we have brought nobody into those positions at all apart from a couple of rookie loanees and that worries me.
At least under Parky we were scrappy and hard to beat but now we are seemingly there for the taking and we just seem rudderless.
I think that's fair criticism of the squad and I agree with it, but I know they have struggled to get the players they wanted, partly because of the timing of Powell's appointment in relation to the transfer window. I think Chris wanted to give those that were here a chance to show him what they could do and that has backfired.
[cite]Posted By: BeckenhamAddick[/cite]right, normally the moaners and groaners come out of the woodwork after a bad result. Having been a long time lurker I'm going to post a comment. Yesterday's result was unlucky. We were by far the better team in the second half after a dismal first half in which both teams were utter shite. Powell was afforded a luxury in his first few games that Parky never was, which was patience. If at 0-0 under Parky you knew that the boos would be echoing out. Powell was afforded this luxury, and this in itself seemed to bring a renewed impotus to the team. Even though I feel Parky was badly treated in his time in charge, I think a lot of the crowds positivity played a part in the 2nd half performance v Plymouth and our reaction against the goal that never was v Colchester.
Under Parky promotion was imperative, and it was implied that failure to do so would lead to administration and possibly worse. Since Powell has taken charge, it has been noted that promotion would be a bonus this year, and that next year would be the time when he would be judged. None of us know if this is right, given that it would have seemed that the new owner were backing the manager when they took over. But given the players we have (or had) a direct style suited the team, even if it wasn't pleasing to the eye. Promotion at no cost makes results the be all and end all, regardless of performance (eg Notts County at home, MK Dons at home). A success in gaining promotion, but a turn off in the entertainment stakes. What do we want? Promotion was never guarenteed under Parky, but looks near on impossible now. Yes it's bloody depressing, but surely calling for the managers head isn't going to improve performances/results? Some people thought that anyone could do better than Parky with the resources available, obviously that's not the case. If there is to be a change in footballing philosophy under Chris that will take time, regardless of the first 4 wins under his tenure. Has he got it? Nobody knows. Unless you sit in that dressing room, or have close contact with those that do we will probably never know. Only time wil tell.
Been on the sauce tonight, felt I had to comment. I'll probably be ripped to shreds, but nobody can deny it's been depressing these last few years. Somebody has come in who obviously cares about the club, something we've suupposedly strived for for a long time. I would love Chris to get it right. He's already a legend to me and many others. People might talk about relegation but honestly it's unlikely.
Some wins though would be nice.... Please! I'll be there next at Southampton. God knows why. Coyr.
You won't be ripped to shreds by me. You're absolutely right IMO.
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]I think that's fair criticism of the squad and I agree with it, but I know they have struggled to get the players they wanted, partly because of the timing of Powell's appointment in relation to the transfer window. I think Chris wanted to give those that were here a chance to show him what they could do and that has backfired.
Backfired? On what grounds can you say such a thing....:)
Oh well, onwards and upwards and I guess above all else it is only football and there are far worse things happening in the world than Charlton Athletic being in L1 for a third season.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]
Blinde Freddie could tell you we need a pacy centre-half, a creative midfielder and a target-man/link-player and so far we have brought nobody into those positions at all apart from a couple of rookie loanees and that worries me.
At least under Parky we were scrappy and hard to beat but now we are seemingly there for the taking and we just seem rudderless.
But we can't realistically sign anything other than rookie loans at this stage of the season ???
[cite]Posted By: Salad[/cite]We miss the likes of Sam, Bailey, Richardson, Burton for sure.
Well they are better players. So losing that quality was always going to hurt. I wonder if we dug up the pre season prediction thread what some of us thought. I remember a few saying mid table which is where we are now!
i remember going to hillsboro and at the end the fans sang 'we've got our Chartlton back' to Peacock on the pitch at the end of the game. Powell was already in the door and everyone appeared to feel a sense of optimism. well we do have our Charlton back but not the premier league one, unfortunately it's the poor team that achieved little. maybe this is the worst state or team has been in, but spare a thought for the state we'd have been in if we had not had a takeover. Whoever bought us is not going to let their money go down the drain. the football may be poor, at least we still have 'Our Charlton'.
Comments
How do you dig yourself out of a hole?
But you asked why that made them idiots, didn't you? But now you are agreeing with me.
Anyway since when did I need a point to post shite? I'm fluent at it.
However, if there was a (very loose) point, it was that if "Powell ain't got a clue" then clearly neither have some of our fans, not if they don't even recognise that it's not Powell standing there. All clear and tickety boo now fella?
He may well be doomed.
Who's helping you on this one then?
;o)
Our fans don't get paid to have a clue, nor do they have the hopes of others linked to the clue they do or don't have. Fella'
As great a full back as he was, and as many times as he leapt out of the tunnel as he did, he is out of his depth right now.
Under Parky promotion was imperative, and it was implied that failure to do so would lead to administration and possibly worse. Since Powell has taken charge, it has been noted that promotion would be a bonus this year, and that next year would be the time when he would be judged. None of us know if this is right, given that it would have seemed that the new owner were backing the manager when they took over. But given the players we have (or had) a direct style suited the team, even if it wasn't pleasing to the eye. Promotion at no cost makes results the be all and end all, regardless of performance (eg Notts County at home, MK Dons at home). A success in gaining promotion, but a turn off in the entertainment stakes. What do we want? Promotion was never guarenteed under Parky, but looks near on impossible now. Yes it's bloody depressing, but surely calling for the managers head isn't going to improve performances/results? Some people thought that anyone could do better than Parky with the resources available, obviously that's not the case. If there is to be a change in footballing philosophy under Chris that will take time, regardless of the first 4 wins under his tenure. Has he got it? Nobody knows. Unless you sit in that dressing room, or have close contact with those that do we will probably never know. Only time wil tell.
Been on the sauce tonight, felt I had to comment. I'll probably be ripped to shreds, but nobody can deny it's been depressing these last few years. Somebody has come in who obviously cares about the club, something we've suupposedly strived for for a long time. I would love Chris to get it right. He's already a legend to me and many others. People might talk about relegation but honestly it's unlikely.
Some wins though would be nice.... Please! I'll be there next at Southampton. God knows why. Coyr.
PS. If you want to come gunning again then please do by all means, but you'll have to do better than that. Chum.
Well put. I wasn't at the match yesterday but watched listened on player and watched the highlights. Its the context of the result rather than the result itself thats the problem. If we'd won our last 4 games the reaction to this result would be far less hysterical
Parkinson failed to stop us free-falling from the championship, signing a lot of loan players in the process, trying to change our style of play (he wanted us more combative and harder to beat) and their are a lot of similarities between then and now, though I think we have enough points on board to keep us up.
Hopefully Powell is given the patience by the board and the fans and is afforded the opportunity to sign his own players, take the team through a pre season and have a tilt at this division next season.
My worry is if he will be allowed to do this without interference. With Jiminez and possibly Vetere on board I hope that the players we are signing now and will sign in the summer are Powells choices and not imposed on him. If Vetere does come on board I hope it isn't a sign that the board are losing confidence in Powell like some of the fans seem to be at the moment.
he didn't specify which season tho ;-)
Turn it into a tunnell?
That statement will come back to haunt Slater, no doubt about it.
Replacing a manager when you are fifth and two points off automatic promotion is a big, big decision to make and you had better make damned sure you get the right man in to take over or you are going to look like a complete ++++.
Well, come the end of the season when we trawl home in 14th place I would say that Mr. Slater is going to feel a right prat. I certainly would in his shoes.
To my mind, and I said this at the time, the only conditions in which you can reasonably sack a manager as we did with Parkinson is if you have a big - and I do mean big by L1 standards - replacement in to take his place and - this is the crucial bit - if you are prepared to chuck some serious money his way to put a team on the park that is head and shoulders above the rest of the division.
What did Slater do? He brings in a novice manager and then - BWP apart - gives him nothing but rookie loanees like Ecclestone and the two new guys - where is the sense in that?
If Powell takes us from 5th to - let's be generous - and say 12th in the table by the end of the season then on what grounds could you possibly have confidence in him to rebuild the squad for next season?
Airman Brown hinted in a past post that Parky was not trusted with the transfer budget and that was partly why he was sacked. Well, OK, if that is the case then surely you must then bring in a manager with a proven transfer record rather than Powell who has never spent a penny in the transfer market?
I am not calling for Powell's sacking but he has got to improve things by a long, long way before I would be able to feel confident that he can get us out of this league next season.
So far he has shown very, very little to convince most rational observers. For an example, where is the sense in releasing two limited but proven L1 strikers like Sodje and Abbott and replacing them with totally unproven loanees like Ecclestone - who will be a class player one day - and Nouble?
On this specific issue I am broadly with you Ormy - although I cannot see that the board will allow this slide to continue unabated until the end of the season whereupon Powell will supposedly be allowed some kind of fresh start with a mythical "whole new squad", as some on here touting.
I would like to see some evidence now that he knows what he is doing
Firstly, Eccleston signed for Charlton on January 13th; Chris Powell was appointed the following day. Whatever the merits of the signing, the decision cannot be credited to Powell.
Abbott's departure was entirely driven by the player. The choice for Chris would have been to have block his desire to move and insist he stayed, when both parties knew the player did not want to stay and was unlikely to have a medium-term future at the club.
Sodje's main use was nuisance value. He had scored once in two starts and 19 sub appearances this season; Eccleston has scored twice in about half that number. Both Eccleston and Nouble, I would suggest, have more to offer than Sodje and Abbott, and are already better footballers despite their comparative youth.
As loanees, both are likely to leave in the summer and create space for permanent signings who are both of a higher quality and better value for money than Sodje and Abbott. It was prudent to take the opportunity to get shot of two players who were never good enough to play for Charlton.
You can disagree with that, of course, but to describe the choices made as lacking sense is just plain daft.
Fair enough Airman, I take your points on board, I did not know that Abbott engineered his transfer but I feel you are being a tad harsh on Akpo!
Anyway, my main feeling is that success in this league comes from hardened pros who can handle the physicality and I don't think any of the players brought in by Powell - barring BWP - fit this mould at all.
Blinde Freddie could tell you we need a pacy centre-half, a creative midfielder and a target-man/link-player and so far we have brought nobody into those positions at all apart from a couple of rookie loanees and that worries me.
At least under Parky we were scrappy and hard to beat but now we are seemingly there for the taking and we just seem rudderless.
You won't be ripped to shreds by me. You're absolutely right IMO.
Backfired? On what grounds can you say such a thing....:)
Oh well, onwards and upwards and I guess above all else it is only football and there are far worse things happening in the world than Charlton Athletic being in L1 for a third season.
Although it sometimes does not feel like it.
Lloyd Sam for his creativity (which he had as well as being lazy)
Dave Mooney, not necessarily him but for a player to drop into the hole between the midfield and strikers.
But we can't realistically sign anything other than rookie loans at this stage of the season ???
Well they are better players. So losing that quality was always going to hurt. I wonder if we dug up the pre season prediction thread what some of us thought. I remember a few saying mid table which is where we are now!