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Who will be the new Charlton coach? - p103. Nathan Jones confirmed
Comments
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Trying to think of one example of each scenario where a club has hired a "nutcase".Callumcafc said:
It's not about turning him down - he absolutely has the most potential of all the candidates which is very exciting. I'm just saying that he has previous for going off the rails (Southampton didn't sack him so quickly without good reason) and if he goes off the rails again, the possibility of League 2 becomes even more real than it already is. That is not true of other candidates where there's a clear path/strategy to having them get us out of this league and then continue building on their work in a few years time with another manager who takes us up yet another level.cafc_se7 said:
Hang on, so what manager do we want? Someone who doesn’t have the capability of reaching the fringes of the premier league and rotting in the top half of league one every season? I’m not suggesting this is what you mean exactly but I think we need to have a bit of a reality check here. For where we are, Nathan Jones would be a very good appointment for the long term future of this club! Couldn’t give a toss about his Southampton and Stoke days…both clubs were in ruins before the day he joined them!!Callumcafc said:NJ sounds *very* boom or bust to me. High ceiling, low floor.He could be the man that leads us to the fringes of the Premier League BUT if he goes off the rails, he could be part of the succession of managers that send us into the fourth tier for the first time ever.
That is in stark contrast to the other front runners IMO who would I would say are more “low ceiling, high floor” appointments in Warnock, Neil, Rowett etc. They probably aren’t taking clubs to the Premier League these days, but they would definitely be able to get us up to the Championship and they certainly wouldn’t let us get relegated from League One.
If they want Jones I appreciate them having 1. the money to do it because it won’t be cheap and 2. the big bollocks to go with a risky appointment that might pay off in spades versus the safe pairs of hands.If this ownership is it for the long haul and can accept the risk that comes with that then more power to them. He could be the best manager we've had in a long long time.- An example of it going well is probably Bielsa at Leeds. They got their promotion that they desperately wanted but you can't say that he was a safe pair of hands, he doesn't do things conventionally and has history of leaving clubs on a whim.
- An example of it going very wrong might be Felix Magath at Fulham who was previously decently regarded in Germany, managing Bayern from 2004-07 among others. It went wrong quite quickly, sacked after 20 games that involved a relegation and he famously told one of their centre backs to treat a knee injury with a block of cheese soaked in alcohol.
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I think Rowett played the way he thought would best get results with what he had. Millwall punched above their weight for a while there considering their budget. Because they were top half and flirting with playoffs I think a lot of fans thought they were entitled to be playing like Man City. Rowetts team ground out good wins. Curbs did similar with us in those Prem days. Played to what achieved our survival. I think Millwall will regret parting company with Rowett. Quite honestly I’d take grinding out a few 1 - 0’s if it could get us out of this shit division and establish us in The Championship.guinnessaddick said:
They soon forgot about being 45 minutes away from the playoffs.Covered_End_Lad said:
Agreed, a close friend of mine is a Millwall ST holder (shocking I know), he said the football under Rowett got progressively worse year on year. Ground out some results (something we need right now, granted) but the manner of getting there was abysmal to watch.Chunes said:I feel like Nathan Jones is a more exciting name than Gary Rowett.12 -
I am not saying Jones or Rowett or somebody else might not be a success but appointing them now gives us one option. Giving Fleming a chance to get instant/quick results gives us two options. If only having one option was a guarantee of success, I would be for it but if Fleming is liked by the players he could have a short term impact which lifts us out of trouble and that buys time to make the right call.3
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I didn't say that though did I. Rowett played effective long ball football at Millwall, grinding out results is what we need this seaso to ensure we stay up, but next season we need to be aiming for promotion, how many teams have been promoted from League one playing that style of football in the modern era? Not many I would wager.carly burn said:
Champagne football In this league? Have a word with yourself!Covered_End_Lad said:
Agreed, a close friend of mine is a Millwall ST holder (shocking I know), he said the football under Rowett got progressively worse year on year. Ground out some results (something we need right now, granted) but the manner of getting there was abysmal to watch.Chunes said:I feel like Nathan Jones is a more exciting name than Gary Rowett.
if they win 1-0 every week and it's a borefest most of the time I really couldnt give a flying proverbial0 -
Might be competing with Huddersfield now.2
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Jones is a devout Christian who credits his faith with getting him through bad times.[72] He has several religious tattoos on his body including praying hands and the crucifixion on his left biceps and forearm, Jesus Christ on his right biceps, and Michaelangelo's 'The Creation of Adam' across his back.[73]
Nathan Jones does not hide his faith and is very open to mentioning it during press conferences, occasionally appending 'God willing' to his hope that his tactics work.[74]
Jones is bilingual, able to speak both English and Spanish.[75]
I am so glad he speaks Spanish, otherwise I was getting a bit worried .
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Well. Millwall for a start.Covered_End_Lad said:
I didn't say that though did I. Rowett played effective long ball football at Millwall, grinding out results is what we need this seaso to ensure we stay up, but next season we need to be aiming for promotion, how many teams have been promoted from League one playing that style of football in the modern era? Not many I would wager.carly burn said:
Champagne football In this league? Have a word with yourself!Covered_End_Lad said:
Agreed, a close friend of mine is a Millwall ST holder (shocking I know), he said the football under Rowett got progressively worse year on year. Ground out some results (something we need right now, granted) but the manner of getting there was abysmal to watch.Chunes said:I feel like Nathan Jones is a more exciting name than Gary Rowett.
if they win 1-0 every week and it's a borefest most of the time I really couldnt give a flying proverbial1 -
Then what exactly are you saying? I'm genuinely confused. As of right now, he is charge of training and tactics.MuttleyCAFC said:
I am not saying give him the job. If he provides an instant lift, I am saying go with it. If it proves to be more than that, then we have the discussion about giving him the job.Henry Irving said:
Don't get the logic behind that thinking.MuttleyCAFC said:
Jones is a proven success and a proven failure. People seem to forget that last bit. My argument with Fleming is that we can correct it within a few games if it isn't having instant results.thenewbie said:
Because Jones is someone who has proven success at this level as a Head coach. Fleming is not. Its a gamble either way and I am not 100% sold on Jones but he's by every metric a safer gamble than Fleming.MuttleyCAFC said:
But what makes you so sure Jones will? I am not having a Fleming love in but I was happy with Saturday and what if he gets a result next week? Even if it is short term, do we throw that away for something that may go right or wrong. If it doesn't work with Fleming we still have time. Maybe one or two games less but we have an extra life as it were.thenewbie said:
And if we give Fleming a chance but he doesn't win any games, whoever we then get in has an even more difficult job and less time to rectify it in. So... no.MuttleyCAFC said:I am not against appointing him but I would like us to give Fleming a chance first. A two defeats (and some wins) or we bring somebody in chance over February. I think that is the common sense approach. I know some people don't share it but if Jones came in and failed that would fcuk us up. Somebody like him should be the lasp gasp option.
Fleming is caretaker and only the caretaker, his only priority right now is to try and stop the rot and provide the basics of continuity.
He's spent a career as assistant to the main coach, he's good at it, he seems quite content.
He is a decent guy from what I've seen but nowhere near the full time job.
Getting someone (anyone really) in over Fleming may go right or wrong yes. But sticking with Fleming may also go right or wrong and hard to justify as anything other than kicking the can down the road.
If we were in midtable doldrums going nowhere then Fleming would get longer. We're not, so he doesn't. Harsh on him maybe but that's the game.
Should we be giving Fleming the job because we can "correct it within a few games" or should we go for the person who can best deliver, in the regime's opinion, short and long term success?
I think the latter. We can as easily, though not as cheaply, sack Jones or whoever as sack Fleming. Waiting a few games isn't an option for us at the moment IMHO.
PS I like what I've seen of Fleming and can see why he's had a long career as an assistant as he would be the calm one in a crises and could smooth over problems and give individual players a lift. Wouldn't be at all unhappy if he stayed by the new manager's choice.
I totally disagree with how easy it would be to sack Jones. There is a reputational element to this as well as a financial one.
Admittedly it would solve our reputation for hiring and firing coaches if we never actually employ one and just have a succession of 'caretakers' instead.4 -
Obvious bias aside, I think we’re a better option. Huddersfield will always have a small budget compared with the rest of that league he knows he will just have to keep them up every season on a shoestring. With us there’s room for a promotion which looks good on a managers CV regardless of which league it’s in. In short who’s he got more chance of a promotion with?The Red Robin said:Might be competing with Huddersfield now.2 -
Covered_End_Lad said:
Agreed, a close friend of mine is a Millwall ST holder (shocking I know), he said the football under Rowett got progressively worse year on year. Ground out some results (something we need right now, granted) but the manner of getting there was abysmal to watch.Chunes said:I feel like Nathan Jones is a more exciting name than Gary Rowett.
People said the same about us under Curbs.1 -
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No Henry, obviously there's 17 games left so we should be hiring a whole array of caretaker managers. It doesn't matter if one fails because you can just get another one in and it's no harm done! Give Fleming 5 games, if he doesn't do well then apparently that doesn't do any harm and we're not tied in, so we can sack him and give the job to Jason Pearce (he gets 7 games because after all isn't that what this is all about) and then if he doesn't do great we chuck him and give it to Jason Euell for 5 games. He fails too and we get relegated? We're not tied in and we can correct it! It's flawless logic when you think about it. Eventually we'll stumble into a caretaker who can get some good results in his first few games and then we're laughing.Henry Irving said:
Don't get the logic behind that thinking.MuttleyCAFC said:
Jones is a proven success and a proven failure. People seem to forget that last bit. My argument with Fleming is that we can correct it within a few games if it isn't having instant results.thenewbie said:
Because Jones is someone who has proven success at this level as a Head coach. Fleming is not. Its a gamble either way and I am not 100% sold on Jones but he's by every metric a safer gamble than Fleming.MuttleyCAFC said:
But what makes you so sure Jones will? I am not having a Fleming love in but I was happy with Saturday and what if he gets a result next week? Even if it is short term, do we throw that away for something that may go right or wrong. If it doesn't work with Fleming we still have time. Maybe one or two games less but we have an extra life as it were.thenewbie said:
And if we give Fleming a chance but he doesn't win any games, whoever we then get in has an even more difficult job and less time to rectify it in. So... no.MuttleyCAFC said:I am not against appointing him but I would like us to give Fleming a chance first. A two defeats (and some wins) or we bring somebody in chance over February. I think that is the common sense approach. I know some people don't share it but if Jones came in and failed that would fcuk us up. Somebody like him should be the lasp gasp option.
Fleming is caretaker and only the caretaker, his only priority right now is to try and stop the rot and provide the basics of continuity.
He's spent a career as assistant to the main coach, he's good at it, he seems quite content.
He is a decent guy from what I've seen but nowhere near the full time job.
Getting someone (anyone really) in over Fleming may go right or wrong yes. But sticking with Fleming may also go right or wrong and hard to justify as anything other than kicking the can down the road.
If we were in midtable doldrums going nowhere then Fleming would get longer. We're not, so he doesn't. Harsh on him maybe but that's the game.
Should we be giving Fleming the job because we can "correct it within a few games" or should we go for the person who can best deliver, in the regime's opinion, short and long term success?
I think the latter. We can as easily, though not as cheaply, sack Jones or whoever as sack Fleming. Waiting a few games isn't an option for us at the moment IMHO.
PS I like what I've seen of Fleming and can see why he's had a long career as an assistant as he would be the calm one in a crises and could smooth over problems and give individual players a lift. Wouldn't be at all unhappy if he stayed by the new manager's choice.7 -
We are fishing in a relatively small pool.
Whoever we get will not be perfect - they cant be.
We just need to see its not an appointment of convenience for the SMT in simply rewarding an individual they have some prior connection with or just going for the cheapest option. we want to see a 'genuine' manager in role and not a gamble.
Given the inability of MA to do anything positive with our squad the next incumbent just needs to get enough points to stay up and to show they could potentially do more next season. Most of the names being thrown around fit that description but don't necessarily excite - we just need promotion n due course however it comes.0 -
And he will be able to choose his players like Appleton did .. that’s why he went with Scott to Coventry house … a manger still has major say on the players he wants only diff nowadays they don’t have to do the scouting , talking to agents clubs and player or neq the deal ….Codfishjunior said:From reading the article posted on NJ feels like he’d want control of transfers too? Given his success at it at Luton6 -
If the new manager can name the players he wants in this window, they better hurry up and appoint him before Thursday2
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Jesus Christ!Oligab said:Jones is a devout Christian who credits his faith with getting him through bad times.[72] He has several religious tattoos on his body including praying hands and the crucifixion on his left biceps and forearm, Jesus Christ on his right biceps, and Michaelangelo's 'The Creation of Adam' across his back.[73]
Nathan Jones does not hide his faith and is very open to mentioning it during press conferences, occasionally appending 'God willing' to his hope that his tactics work.[74]
Jones is bilingual, able to speak both English and Spanish.[75]
I am so glad he speaks Spanish, otherwise I was getting a bit worried .
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If there is a god, he might want to spend a bit more time fixing famine, war, and disease than worrying about how effective a back 3 is going to be for Luton vs. Huddersfield.10
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HuddersfieldBR7_addick said:
Obvious bias aside, I think we’re a better option. Huddersfield will always have a small budget compared with the rest of that league he knows he will just have to keep them up every season on a shoestring. With us there’s room for a promotion which looks good on a managers CV regardless of which league it’s in. In short who’s he got more chance of a promotion with?The Red Robin said:Might be competing with Huddersfield now.0 -
OMG. Please no!Oligab said:Jones is a devout Christian who credits his faith with getting him through bad times.[72] He has several religious tattoos on his body including praying hands and the crucifixion on his left biceps and forearm, Jesus Christ on his right biceps, and Michaelangelo's 'The Creation of Adam' across his back.[73]
Nathan Jones does not hide his faith and is very open to mentioning it during press conferences, occasionally appending 'God willing' to his hope that his tactics work.[74]
Jones is bilingual, able to speak both English and Spanish.[75]
I am so glad he speaks Spanish, otherwise I was getting a bit worried .
https://youtu.be/OktRFK-HeuU?si=fW_krBEnto1E8b9p
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what odds we have the Fleming/Pearce combo in situ until season's end ? .. IF they start getting results, we will all (well most of us except perhaps the Jones lovers) be very pleased0
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Not for me. He’s not very good on crossesBedsaddick said:
Jesus Christ!Oligab said:Jones is a devout Christian who credits his faith with getting him through bad times.[72] He has several religious tattoos on his body including praying hands and the crucifixion on his left biceps and forearm, Jesus Christ on his right biceps, and Michaelangelo's 'The Creation of Adam' across his back.[73]
Nathan Jones does not hide his faith and is very open to mentioning it during press conferences, occasionally appending 'God willing' to his hope that his tactics work.[74]
Jones is bilingual, able to speak both English and Spanish.[75]
I am so glad he speaks Spanish, otherwise I was getting a bit worried .
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Far too much of a gamble. We don't have the luxury of time. Waiting to see if they work could very well relegate us.Lincsaddick said:what odds we have the Fleming/Pearce combo in situ until season's end ? .. IF they start getting results, we will all (well most of us except perhaps the Jones lovers) be very pleased
We need an experienced manager in the door ASAP or things could get ugly very quickly.8 -
But if you give him say the next three games and he doesn’t lift us out of trouble then not only will it give the next manager less games to get us out of trouble but it may take a week or so to get that manager in and by then we are well and truely in the brown stuff. How do we know he even wants the job, has he ever applied for any managerial positions? We are not in a position to experiment.MuttleyCAFC said:I am not saying Jones or Rowett or somebody else might not be a success but appointing them now gives us one option. Giving Fleming a chance to get instant/quick results gives us two options. If only having one option was a guarantee of success, I would be for it but if Fleming is liked by the players he could have a short term impact which lifts us out of trouble and that buys time to make the right call.12 -
Good point!Exiled_Addick said:If there is a god, he might want to spend a bit more time fixing famine, war, and disease than worrying about how effective a back 3 is going to be for Luton vs. Huddersfield.
Since my comment earlier today about Jones bringing in God as his Number Two, I've seriously gone off the idea.
Looking at the state of the planet that God is supposed to have created, I would say God has done a pretty shite job of looking after it (wars, famine, climate, Palace, etc.).
Therefore, I don't think God should be let anywhere near our club.
God has been properly Charltonised before he has even arrived...
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agreed, I did make the comment with my tongue firmly in my cheekLaddick01 said:
Far too much of a gamble. We don't have the luxury of time. Waiting to see if they work could very well relegate us.Lincsaddick said:what odds we have the Fleming/Pearce combo in situ until season's end ? .. IF they start getting results, we will all (well most of us except perhaps the Jones lovers) be very pleased
We need an experienced manager in the door ASAP or things could get ugly very quickly.0 -
Our last 4 managers have all been experienced and it didn't end well!Laddick01 said:
Far too much of a gamble. We don't have the luxury of time. Waiting to see if they work could very well relegate us.Lincsaddick said:what odds we have the Fleming/Pearce combo in situ until season's end ? .. IF they start getting results, we will all (well most of us except perhaps the Jones lovers) be very pleased
We need an experienced manager in the door ASAP or things could get ugly very quickly.1 -
To dither and delay is to rue the day. Some sound candidates being touted from which one ought to be a good fit. To stick with Flemming until it goes wrong seems a mad idea to me, the board giving themselves a vote of no confidence in their own ability to find the right man now.
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With Darren Moore suddenly available, is he an option ?
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I hope not!Mrs. Brightside said:With Darren Moore suddenly available, is he an option ?11 -
Yes, but do you have faith in Scott making the right choice? Bearing in mind Appleton was the outstanding candidate of 1.swordfish said:To dither and delay is to rue the day. Some sound candidates being touted from which one ought to be a good fit. To stick with Flemming until it goes wrong seems a mad idea to me, the board giving themselves a vote of no confidence in their own ability to find the right man now.0
