I've only just logged on today - busy day post Sundance trip.
I haven't put my £50 on Rowett..... yet....but my betting account has enough in it.....
One of the candidates will only come if he can be Manager not Head Coach.
He feels if Charlton want to progress they need to make changes.
I'm not sure why any Millwall fan was unhappy with Rowett's time there. Consistently bottom six lowest budget and 90 minutes away from the play offs before the chairman died.
I really will have to log off here if GR gets the job - could be a win-win for some of you!!!
I've only just logged on today - busy day post Sundance trip.
I haven't put my £50 on Rowett..... yet....but my betting account has enough in it.....
One of the candidates will only come if he can be Manager not Head Coach.
He feels if Charlton want to progress they need to make changes.
I'm not sure why any Millwall fan was unhappy with Rowett's time there. Consistently bottom six lowest budget and 90 minutes away from the play offs before the chairman died.
I really will have to log off here if GR gets the job - could be a win-win for some of you!!!
Are there many managers about any more ? It’s pretty much all head coaches these days.
NJ sounds *very* boom or bust to me. High ceiling, low floor.
He could be the man that leads us to the fringes of the Premier League BUT if he goes off the rails, he could be part of the succession of managers that send us into the fourth tier for the first time ever.
That is in stark contrast to the other front runners IMO who would I would say are more “low ceiling, high floor” appointments in Warnock, Neil, Rowett etc. They probably aren’t taking clubs to the Premier League these days, but they would definitely be able to get us up to the Championship and they certainly wouldn’t let us get relegated from League One.
If they want Jones I appreciate them having 1. the money to do it because it won’t be cheap and 2. the big bollocks to go with a risky appointment that might pay off in spades versus the safe pairs of hands.
Hang on, so what manager do we want? Someone who doesn’t have the capability of reaching the fringes of the premier league and rotting in the top half of league one every season? I’m not suggesting this is what you mean exactly but I think we need to have a bit of a reality check here. For where we are, Nathan Jones would be a very good appointment for the long term future of this club! Couldn’t give a toss about his Southampton and Stoke days…both clubs were in ruins before the day he joined them!!
It's not about turning him down - he absolutely has the most potential of all the candidates which is very exciting. I'm just saying that he has previous for going off the rails (Southampton didn't sack him so quickly without good reason) and if he goes off the rails again, the possibility of League 2 becomes even more real than it already is. That is not true of other candidates where there's a clear path/strategy to having them get us out of this league and then continue building on their work in a few years time with another manager who takes us up yet another level.
If this ownership is it for the long haul and can accept the risk that comes with that then more power to them. He could be the best manager we've had in a long long time.
Trying to think of one example of each scenario where a club has hired a "nutcase".
An example of it going well is probably Bielsa at Leeds. They got their promotion that they desperately wanted but you can't say that he was a safe pair of hands, he doesn't do things conventionally and has history of leaving clubs on a whim.
An example of it going very wrong might be Felix Magath at Fulham who was previously decently regarded in Germany, managing Bayern from 2004-07 among others. It went wrong quite quickly, sacked after 20 games that involved a relegation and he famously told one of their centre backs to treat a knee injury with a block of cheese soaked in alcohol.
To be fair, no one ever proved that the cheese thing DIDN'T heal the knee.
These are two good examples. I think the biggest difference I feel (apart from level of quality) is that Bielsa and Magath were known quantities, whereas Jones' record is mixed and he has only had success at one club. Bielsa was and is known as one of if not the greatest tactical minds of his generation who could be mercurial, distant, and downright weird, but was also beloved in places where things worked out (Athletic Bilbao). And it was brilliant at Leeds. And not to go on about it, but every time we had a managerial opening before he went to Leeds I said we should get him in.
And then Magath was known...well, for being a nutter from what I understand.
I'm kind of surprised that so many people are skeptical of Jones, but also, I am too. His meltdown at Southampton was...stark. And fast. So while on the one hand the last time we had a manager who'd manager in the Prem it was Pards ~15 years ago, on the other hand I just can't get past the fact that he has not had success at the senior level anywhere but Luton. Obviously was highly rated here, got two jobs off of his work at Luton, But I just don't know.
I will say, credit to the board/owners/whomever for talking to him. It shows intent, even if we have reservations. And it may be that this is the perfect place for Jones to rebuild his reputation. Whenever we hire a manager I want someone who is progressive in their outlook and who can hopefully grow with the club up the divisions (ideally, one day). And Jones feels like he has the highest upside of anyone out there. The risk is also pretty high, but I'm not sure the "doomsday scenario" is that drastically worse than for say a Neil or Rowett, it just might happen faster.
I've only just logged on today - busy day post Sundance trip.
I haven't put my £50 on Rowett..... yet....but my betting account has enough in it.....
One of the candidates will only come if he can be Manager not Head Coach.
He feels if Charlton want to progress they need to make changes.
I'm not sure why any Millwall fan was unhappy with Rowett's time there. Consistently bottom six lowest budget and 90 minutes away from the play offs before the chairman died.
I really will have to log off here if GR gets the job - could be a win-win for some of you!!!
Are there many managers about any more ? It’s pretty much all head coaches these days.
and that is all too often a real problem .. too many cooks involved in team matters .. Directors of Football, coaches, physios, trainers, owners, advisers, soothsayers etc etc .. should be one man, THE manager running the team with minimal interference
I've only just logged on today - busy day post Sundance trip.
I haven't put my £50 on Rowett..... yet....but my betting account has enough in it.....
One of the candidates will only come if he can be Manager not Head Coach.
He feels if Charlton want to progress they need to make changes.
I'm not sure why any Millwall fan was unhappy with Rowett's time there. Consistently bottom six lowest budget and 90 minutes away from the play offs before the chairman died.
I really will have to log off here if GR gets the job - could be a win-win for some of you!!!
Are there many managers about any more ? It’s pretty much all head coaches these days.
and that is all too often a real problem .. too many cooks involved in team matters .. Directors of Football, coaches, physios, trainers, owners, advisers, soothsayers etc etc .. should be one man, THE manager running the team with minimal interference
In the modern game it just isn’t a realistic set up to have one man doing everything. There’s a reason why it’s dying out
I've only just logged on today - busy day post Sundance trip.
I haven't put my £50 on Rowett..... yet....but my betting account has enough in it.....
One of the candidates will only come if he can be Manager not Head Coach.
He feels if Charlton want to progress they need to make changes.
I'm not sure why any Millwall fan was unhappy with Rowett's time there. Consistently bottom six lowest budget and 90 minutes away from the play offs before the chairman died.
I really will have to log off here if GR gets the job - could be a win-win for some of you!!!
Are there many managers about any more ? It’s pretty much all head coaches these days.
and that is all too often a real problem .. too many cooks involved in team matters .. Directors of Football, coaches, physios, trainers, owners, advisers, soothsayers etc etc .. should be one man, THE manager running the team with minimal interference
In the modern game it just isn’t a realistic set up to have one man doing everything. There’s a reason why it’s dying out
I don't expect the manager to do the laundry or mow the pitch, just to run the team with (as said) minimal interference
I've only just logged on today - busy day post Sundance trip.
I haven't put my £50 on Rowett..... yet....but my betting account has enough in it.....
One of the candidates will only come if he can be Manager not Head Coach.
He feels if Charlton want to progress they need to make changes.
I'm not sure why any Millwall fan was unhappy with Rowett's time there. Consistently bottom six lowest budget and 90 minutes away from the play offs before the chairman died.
I really will have to log off here if GR gets the job - could be a win-win for some of you!!!
Out of interest what are the big differences between the two? Is it purely down to transfer business and who has the final say. For example, Scott gets final decision with a head coach in charge, but the manager gets final say when they are in charge etc.
Successful clubs are successful because they get everyone pulling it the same direction, everyone knows what they need to do and why and they are motivated to do that.
We've not had that for a long time.
In contrast Luton have. They didn't have the most money but under Jones they had clear direction "on the grass" to go with a clear plan from the board and good recruitment from Harford.
That's why Harford could step in when Jones first left and the team continue to be a success, because the pattern was already set.
It also meant that Jones could easily slip back in to the role and Edwards could carry it on.
Do Charlton have that continuity and structure?
Scott and Rodwell have spoken a lot about creating such a structure and culture but I've not seen, albeit as an outsider, much evidence of it happening, not yet at least.
We certainly haven't got the winning mentality that was promised when Appleton was appointed.
It could be that Jones is a key part of creating this culture but it could equally be that Jones needs such a culture in place already to thrive which is why he flopped at Stoke and Southampton.
I’m really not liking the way this search is going in terms of the kind of names in the frame.
Just my opinion but I really don’t think it will end well come May if this is the road we go down.
Who was you expecting 🤔
Oh this is what I was expecting….. experience from an exceptionally large sample size states that managers like these who have decent CVs but don’t have a special bond never work out.
anyway it is what it is - let’s see where we are in May and then we will know if it was the right approach.
If I were pushed I probably go Rowett - but then again you can already see the Agent Rowett jokes from that lot from a mile off!
But Rowett not available and when he returns to football it will be closer to the midlands where his family is
Random Twitter account claiming Jones keen but wants his own signings before the window closes.
How on earth does he expect that to happen in such short a time…..pretty unrealistic if you ask me.🤔
Why do people take random Twitter accounts as ITK .. its to late now for any new manager to put forward list of targets and get them done unless their loans ?
I think Nathan Jones would be a great appointment no one can be certain but what he did in rebuilding Luton from the ground up is just what we need at Charlton. He was very highly regarded when first at Charlton and then at Brighton. There is a video somewhere of Mick McCarthy talking about Jones when he was reserve manager at Charlton and how obsessive and manic he was. We need that intensity. I think you can completely forget his spell at Southampton which was a car crash all around The Stoke spell is a bit more worrying because the players seemed to rebel against him but the culture shock after Tony Pulis would have been enormous I think and hope he will have learned tons from those experiences- l think he is just the right man at the right time to kick us back on a recovery journey
I think Nathan Jones would be a great appointment no one can be certain but what he did in rebuilding Luton from the ground up is just what we need at Charlton. He was very highly regarded when first at Charlton and then at Brighton. There is a video somewhere of Mick McCarthy talking about Jones when he was reserve manager at Charlton and how obsessive and manic he was. We need that intensity. I think you can completely forget his spell at Southampton which was a car crash all around The Stoke spell is a bit more worrying because the players seemed to rebel against him but the culture shock after Tony Pulis would have been enormous I think and hope he will have learned tons from those experiences- l think he is just the right man at the right time to kick us back on a recovery journey
Look at stokes managers this century. None of them have impressive records. They had a good spell but where they are now is the higher end of their natural level
Had Duff and Eustace as my 2 favourites but have started to come around a bit on the idea on NJ from some of the comments on here and from that Jimmy Stone tweet earlier.
Duff would've been my first choice but happy with Jones. Whoever comes in, I hope they're greeted with some positivity.
I agree although I think ultimately positivity will only come with wins, points and staying up primarily and then in the summer how the club moves forward towards competing next season, in what has to be L1.
I think Nathan Jones would be a great appointment no one can be certain but what he did in rebuilding Luton from the ground up is just what we need at Charlton. He was very highly regarded when first at Charlton and then at Brighton. There is a video somewhere of Mick McCarthy talking about Jones when he was reserve manager at Charlton and how obsessive and manic he was. We need that intensity. I think you can completely forget his spell at Southampton which was a car crash all around The Stoke spell is a bit more worrying because the players seemed to rebel against him but the culture shock after Tony Pulis would have been enormous I think and hope he will have learned tons from those experiences- l think he is just the right man at the right time to kick us back on a recovery journey
What worries me is that his ability to get on with the players and give them a lift is in question.
I think our squad are shell shocked after seeing two managers sacked, and the fans getting toxic over recent weeks. If Stoke’s players really rebelled that’s a worrying sign. That could be all hype though of course.
To dither and delay is to rue the day. Some sound candidates being touted from which one ought to be a good fit. To stick with Flemming until it goes wrong seems a mad idea to me, the board giving themselves a vote of no confidence in their own ability to find the right man now.
Yes, but do you have faith in Scott making the right choice? Bearing in mind Appleton was the outstanding candidate of 1.
Appleton was .. others were Cowley brothers , Lee Johnson , Lennon or Harris
It was a joke.
I know there were more but Scotts suggestion that he was the outstanding candidate out of a very small and limited pool.
Comments
I haven't put my £50 on Rowett..... yet....but my betting account has enough in it.....
One of the candidates will only come if he can be Manager not Head Coach.
He feels if Charlton want to progress they need to make changes.
I'm not sure why any Millwall fan was unhappy with Rowett's time there. Consistently bottom six lowest budget and 90 minutes away from the play offs before the chairman died.
I really will have to log off here if GR gets the job - could be a win-win for some of you!!!
These are two good examples. I think the biggest difference I feel (apart from level of quality) is that Bielsa and Magath were known quantities, whereas Jones' record is mixed and he has only had success at one club. Bielsa was and is known as one of if not the greatest tactical minds of his generation who could be mercurial, distant, and downright weird, but was also beloved in places where things worked out (Athletic Bilbao). And it was brilliant at Leeds. And not to go on about it, but every time we had a managerial opening before he went to Leeds I said we should get him in.
And then Magath was known...well, for being a nutter from what I understand.
I'm kind of surprised that so many people are skeptical of Jones, but also, I am too. His meltdown at Southampton was...stark. And fast. So while on the one hand the last time we had a manager who'd manager in the Prem it was Pards ~15 years ago, on the other hand I just can't get past the fact that he has not had success at the senior level anywhere but Luton. Obviously was highly rated here, got two jobs off of his work at Luton, But I just don't know.
I will say, credit to the board/owners/whomever for talking to him. It shows intent, even if we have reservations. And it may be that this is the perfect place for Jones to rebuild his reputation. Whenever we hire a manager I want someone who is progressive in their outlook and who can hopefully grow with the club up the divisions (ideally, one day). And Jones feels like he has the highest upside of anyone out there. The risk is also pretty high, but I'm not sure the "doomsday scenario" is that drastically worse than for say a Neil or Rowett, it just might happen faster.
We've not had that for a long time.
In contrast Luton have. They didn't have the most money but under Jones they had clear direction "on the grass" to go with a clear plan from the board and good recruitment from Harford.
That's why Harford could step in when Jones first left and the team continue to be a success, because the pattern was already set.
It also meant that Jones could easily slip back in to the role and Edwards could carry it on.
Do Charlton have that continuity and structure?
Scott and Rodwell have spoken a lot about creating such a structure and culture but I've not seen, albeit as an outsider, much evidence of it happening, not yet at least.
We certainly haven't got the winning mentality that was promised when Appleton was appointed.
It could be that Jones is a key part of creating this culture but it could equally be that Jones needs such a culture in place already to thrive which is why he flopped at Stoke and Southampton.
I don't know but maybe we'll find out soon.
no one can be certain but what he did in rebuilding Luton from the ground up is just what we need at Charlton. He was very highly regarded when first at Charlton and then at Brighton. There is a video somewhere of Mick McCarthy talking about Jones when he was reserve manager at Charlton and how obsessive and manic he was. We need that intensity. I think you can completely forget his spell at Southampton which was a car crash all around
The Stoke spell is a bit more worrying because the players seemed to rebel against him but the culture shock after Tony Pulis would have been enormous
I think and hope he will have learned tons from those experiences-
l think he is just the right man at the right time to kick us back on a recovery journey
Like when we pissed off the Nigels with Dowie. That went well. ;-)
I know there were more but Scotts suggestion that he was the outstanding candidate out of a very small and limited pool.
Genuinely staggering what an interview or two can do.
Jbaker, do you mean Warburton or just that the new manager will be a him ?