I am not saying Jones or Rowett or somebody else might not be a success but appointing them now gives us one option. Giving Fleming a chance to get instant/quick results gives us two options. If only having one option was a guarantee of success, I would be for it but if Fleming is liked by the players he could have a short term impact which lifts us out of trouble and that buys time to make the right call.
But if you give him say the next three games and he doesn’t lift us out of trouble then not only will it give the next manager less games to get us out of trouble but it may take a week or so to get that manager in and by then we are well and truely in the brown stuff. How do we know he even wants the job, has he ever applied for any managerial positions? We are not in a position to experiment.
If there is a god, he might want to spend a bit more time fixing famine, war, and disease than worrying about how effective a back 3 is going to be for Luton vs. Huddersfield.
Good point! Since my comment earlier today about Jones bringing in God as his Number Two, I've seriously gone off the idea. Looking at the state of the planet that God is supposed to have created, I would say God has done a pretty shite job of looking after it (wars, famine, climate, Palace, etc.). Therefore, I don't think God should be let anywhere near our club. God has been properly Charltonised before he has even arrived...
what odds we have the Fleming/Pearce combo in situ until season's end ? .. IF they start getting results, we will all (well most of us except perhaps the Jones lovers) be very pleased
Far too much of a gamble. We don't have the luxury of time. Waiting to see if they work could very well relegate us.
We need an experienced manager in the door ASAP or things could get ugly very quickly.
agreed, I did make the comment with my tongue firmly in my cheek
what odds we have the Fleming/Pearce combo in situ until season's end ? .. IF they start getting results, we will all (well most of us except perhaps the Jones lovers) be very pleased
Far too much of a gamble. We don't have the luxury of time. Waiting to see if they work could very well relegate us.
We need an experienced manager in the door ASAP or things could get ugly very quickly.
Our last 4 managers have all been experienced and it didn't end well!
To dither and delay is to rue the day. Some sound candidates being touted from which one ought to be a good fit. To stick with Flemming until it goes wrong seems a mad idea to me, the board giving themselves a vote of no confidence in their own ability to find the right man now.
To dither and delay is to rue the day. Some sound candidates being touted from which one ought to be a good fit. To stick with Flemming until it goes wrong seems a mad idea to me, the board giving themselves a vote of no confidence in their own ability to find the right man now.
Yes, but do you have faith in Scott making the right choice? Bearing in mind Appleton was the outstanding candidate of 1.
I remember people complaining about the football under Powell as I enjoyed my favourite season of all time followed by getting as close as we have got to having a go at a return to the PL since we were relegated.
Cannot beat the feeling at the Valley after a win, I could not care less how many sideways passes we take to get that vital goal.
To dither and delay is to rue the day. Some sound candidates being touted from which one ought to be a good fit. To stick with Flemming until it goes wrong seems a mad idea to me, the board giving themselves a vote of no confidence in their own ability to find the right man now.
Yes, but do you have faith in Scott making the right choice? Bearing in mind Appleton was the outstanding candidate of 1.
Appleton was .. others were Cowley brothers , Lee Johnson , Lennon or Harris
I remember people complaining about the football under Powell as I enjoyed my favourite season of all time followed by getting as close as we have got to having a go at a return to the PL since we were relegated.
Cannot beat the feeling at the Valley after a win, I could not care less how many sideways passes we take to get that vital goal.
To dither and delay is to rue the day. Some sound candidates being touted from which one ought to be a good fit. To stick with Flemming until it goes wrong seems a mad idea to me, the board giving themselves a vote of no confidence in their own ability to find the right man now.
Yes, but do you have faith in Scott making the right choice? Bearing in mind Appleton was the outstanding candidate of 1.
I've no faith in Scott to get it right, but I think the candidates being muted are of a higher calibre than last time, so he might get lucky and we need him to. I have doubts that any will turn our squad into hard to beat winners overnight though.
I remember people complaining about the football under Powell as I enjoyed my favourite season of all time followed by getting as close as we have got to having a go at a return to the PL since we were relegated.
Cannot beat the feeling at the Valley after a win, I could not care less how many sideways passes we take to get that vital goal.
To dither and delay is to rue the day. Some sound candidates being touted from which one ought to be a good fit. To stick with Flemming until it goes wrong seems a mad idea to me, the board giving themselves a vote of no confidence in their own ability to find the right man now.
Yes, but do you have faith in Scott making the right choice? Bearing in mind Appleton was the outstanding candidate of 1.
I've no faith in Scott to get it right, but I think the candidates being muted are of a higher calibre than last time, so he might get lucky and we need him to. I have doubts that any will turn our squad into hard to beat winners overnight though.
This season is now only about climbing away from the relegation zone. Anything else for me is a bonus. Yet again the summer will be the key and whether the new long term manager is put in place now or then doesn’t bother me. Let’s get clear of the bottom and worry about promotion next season when it’s possible.
To dither and delay is to rue the day. Some sound candidates being touted from which one ought to be a good fit. To stick with Flemming until it goes wrong seems a mad idea to me, the board giving themselves a vote of no confidence in their own ability to find the right man now.
Yes, but do you have faith in Scott making the right choice? Bearing in mind Appleton was the outstanding candidate of 1.
I've no faith in Scott to get it right, but I think the candidates being muted are of a higher calibre than last time, so he might get lucky and we need him to. I have doubts that any will turn our squad into hard to beat winners overnight though.
If I made as many wrong calls as he has then I would probably be dumped by my bosses.
Jones is a devout Christian who credits his faith with getting him through bad times.[72] He has several religious tattoos on his body including praying hands and the crucifixion on his left biceps and forearm, Jesus Christ on his right biceps, and Michaelangelo's 'The Creation of Adam' across his back.[73]
Nathan Jones does not hide his faith and is very open to mentioning it during press conferences, occasionally appending 'God willing' to his hope that his tactics work.[74]
Jones is bilingual, able to speak both English and Spanish.[75]
I am so glad he speaks Spanish, otherwise I was getting a bit worried .
Jones is a devout Christian who credits his faith with getting him through bad times.[72] He has several religious tattoos on his body including praying hands and the crucifixion on his left biceps and forearm, Jesus Christ on his right biceps, and Michaelangelo's 'The Creation of Adam' across his back.[73]
Nathan Jones does not hide his faith and is very open to mentioning it during press conferences, occasionally appending 'God willing' to his hope that his tactics work.
So he believes in miracles , religious and tattoos something for everyone to get involved with , like/dislike /wank off
Jones, with God as his Number 2. Shurely the ultimate dream team? Just worried about the compensation payable to the Christian church if God leaves them for us.
We’d have an infallible backline. And when we played the Nigel’s and the Scum I strongly suspect we’d apply a smiting formation.
I am not against appointing him but I would like us to give Fleming a chance first. A two defeats (and some wins) or we bring somebody in chance over February. I think that is the common sense approach. I know some people don't share it but if Jones came in and failed that would fcuk us up. Somebody like him should be the lasp gasp option.
And if we give Fleming a chance but he doesn't win any games, whoever we then get in has an even more difficult job and less time to rectify it in. So... no. Fleming is caretaker and only the caretaker, his only priority right now is to try and stop the rot and provide the basics of continuity. He's spent a career as assistant to the main coach, he's good at it, he seems quite content.
He is a decent guy from what I've seen but nowhere near the full time job.
But what makes you so sure Jones will? I am not having a Fleming love in but I was happy with Saturday and what if he gets a result next week? Even if it is short term, do we throw that away for something that may go right or wrong. If it doesn't work with Fleming we still have time. Maybe one or two games less but we have an extra life as it were.
Because Jones is someone who has proven success at this level as a Head coach. Fleming is not. Its a gamble either way and I am not 100% sold on Jones but he's by every metric a safer gamble than Fleming.
Getting someone (anyone really) in over Fleming may go right or wrong yes. But sticking with Fleming may also go right or wrong and hard to justify as anything other than kicking the can down the road.
If we were in midtable doldrums going nowhere then Fleming would get longer. We're not, so he doesn't. Harsh on him maybe but that's the game.
Jones is a proven success and a proven failure. People seem to forget that last bit. My argument with Fleming is that we can correct it within a few games if it isn't having instant results.
Don't get the logic behind that thinking.
Should we be giving Fleming the job because we can "correct it within a few games" or should we go for the person who can best deliver, in the regime's opinion, short and long term success?
I think the latter. We can as easily, though not as cheaply, sack Jones or whoever as sack Fleming. Waiting a few games isn't an option for us at the moment IMHO.
PS I like what I've seen of Fleming and can see why he's had a long career as an assistant as he would be the calm one in a crises and could smooth over problems and give individual players a lift. Wouldn't be at all unhappy if he stayed by the new manager's choice.
I am not saying give him the job. If he provides an instant lift, I am saying go with it. If it proves to be more than that, then we have the discussion about giving him the job.
I totally disagree with how easy it would be to sack Jones. There is a reputational element to this as well as a financial one.
Then what exactly are you saying? I'm genuinely confused. As of right now, he is charge of training and tactics.
Admittedly it would solve our reputation for hiring and firing coaches if we never actually employ one and just have a succession of 'caretakers' instead.
I'm saying dont rush into appointing anybody yet. You may disagree but It isn't that complicated a position.
I remember being impressed with Nathan Jones when he was coaching our U21s and felt we had let a good one slip when he left. I think he would do a good job for us.
I’m starting to feel encouraged that the new owners are prepared to spend some money rather than do it on the cheap. Surely that’s why, finally, we’re looking at managers who are a significant notch up on what we’ve looked at before. I also think they’ve shown intent in this transfer window. I know nothing is a given but I feel Jones could do a good job with us with the right backing which I think he’ll get.
I am not saying Jones or Rowett or somebody else might not be a success but appointing them now gives us one option. Giving Fleming a chance to get instant/quick results gives us two options. If only having one option was a guarantee of success, I would be for it but if Fleming is liked by the players he could have a short term impact which lifts us out of trouble and that buys time to make the right call.
But if you give him say the next three games and he doesn’t lift us out of trouble then not only will it give the next manager less games to get us out of trouble but it may take a week or so to get that manager in and by then we are well and truely in the brown stuff. How do we know he even wants the job, has he ever applied for any managerial positions? We are not in a position to experiment.
But you are assuming the new manager will do better in those three games. We have just got a point away to a team with the best home record in the league. We got better as the game went on and I want to see if that improvement continues.
Jones is a devout Christian who credits his faith with getting him through bad times.[72] He has several religious tattoos on his body including praying hands and the crucifixion on his left biceps and forearm, Jesus Christ on his right biceps, and Michaelangelo's 'The Creation of Adam' across his back.[73]
Nathan Jones does not hide his faith and is very open to mentioning it during press conferences, occasionally appending 'God willing' to his hope that his tactics work.
So he believes in miracles , religious and tattoos something for everyone to get involved with , like/dislike /wank off
Jones, with God as his Number 2. Shurely the ultimate dream team? Just worried about the compensation payable to the Christian church if God leaves them for us.
We’d have an infallible backline. And when we played the Nigel’s and the Scum I strongly suspect we’d apply a smiting formation.
Comments
Since my comment earlier today about Jones bringing in God as his Number Two, I've seriously gone off the idea.
Looking at the state of the planet that God is supposed to have created, I would say God has done a pretty shite job of looking after it (wars, famine, climate, Palace, etc.).
Therefore, I don't think God should be let anywhere near our club.
God has been properly Charltonised before he has even arrived...
Cannot beat the feeling at the Valley after a win, I could not care less how many sideways passes we take to get that vital goal.
Is it a live hostage negotiation?