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The Back to The Valley mural project
Comments
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He still goes, he's always in the Oak, every time I've been in there.Off_it said:Who's the big bloke to the right of Alwen, with his kid.
Anyone known on here?
The bloke next to him is/was his brother I think.
Not sure if he is still around/with us, so wouldn't like to speculate.1 -
That’ll be Steve then.JohnnyH2 said:Steve Sutherland's tweet is very clear that it was CAST who came up with the proposed design. Really poor decision1 -
Would the gates not be a similar sum of money?0
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Where is the mural supposed to be going?0
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On a wallStig said:Where is the mural supposed to be going?13 -
It's not "clear". It's a slimy insinuation. He's the chair of the committee that has been overseeing the development. In my world at least "chair" is a leadership position.JohnnyH2 said:Steve Sutherland's tweet is very clear that it was CAST who came up with the proposed design. Really poor decision3 -
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PragueAddick said:
It's not "clear". It's a slimy insinuation. He's the chair of the committee that has been overseeing the development. In my world at least "chair" is a leadership position.JohnnyH2 said:Steve Sutherland's tweet is very clear that it was CAST who came up with the proposed design. Really poor decision
The proposed design put forward by the Trust
Seemed clear to me what was said, apologies if I misread it4 -
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To be fair you did ask him to delete his tweet earlier today.PragueAddick said:
It's not "clear". It's a slimy insinuation. He's the chair of the committee that has been overseeing the development. In my world at least "chair" is a leadership position.JohnnyH2 said:Steve Sutherland's tweet is very clear that it was CAST who came up with the proposed design. Really poor decision1 -
https://x.com/hunterprague/status/1692866876500480294?s=46&t=86XRpoKnrkKw_InpJkb-Ygshirty5 said:
To be fair you did ask him to delete his tweet earlier today.PragueAddick said:
It's not "clear". It's a slimy insinuation. He's the chair of the committee that has been overseeing the development. In my world at least "chair" is a leadership position.JohnnyH2 said:Steve Sutherland's tweet is very clear that it was CAST who came up with the proposed design. Really poor decision
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Yes I did. And he hasn’t. And we know each other from back then. So he knows where to find me if he thinks my tweet was unfair.shirty5 said:e
To be fair you did ask him to delete his tweet earlier today.PragueAddick said:
It's not "clear". It's a slimy insinuation. He's the chair of the committee that has been overseeing the development. In my world at least "chair" is a leadership position.JohnnyH2 said:Steve Sutherland's tweet is very clear that it was CAST who came up with the proposed design. Really poor decisionI don’t think he’s a bad guy, but that wasn’t worthy of a chairman of anything. If he really thinks something was presented prematurely, that’s item no.1 on the agenda for their next meet. Not for Twitter.2 -
Several panels in the Museum might be a good idea, covering all of Paddy’s ideas above (and would not be subject to the weather and even defacing)PaddyP17 said:I was born in 1994, but BTTV means an incredible amount to me. Given the people who make up my own personal footballing tapestry were so heavily involved, it was always going to. And there are a few themes, I guess, that always come up in the Back To The Valley story whenever chatting about it:
- The goal (obviously)
- The cheer that went up in the town hall and all the celebrations that evening
- The campaign posters
- The balloons
- Roger Alwen opening the gates
That's five things that tend to come up time and time again. It would be VERY difficult for a mural to capture all of these things at once, though. I wonder if a mural itself even is the best option? Or if several panels would be better?0 -
Still like the gates better though2
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You pick 1 of 3 images that people recognise : Walshes goal, gates opening or the balloons being released. When you already have a visual that evokes emotion/memory, it's next to impossible to improve on that.Boom said:
Couldn’t you knock something up as the resident artist?shine166 said:
That's fair enough, tricky thing is though, only a handful of people would have any clue who any of the people are now days from umages, let alone 20 years time from nowkillerandflash said:I can understand why they wouldn't want to show Walsh and the players though, if the mural is more about the spectators and those who helped get us back.
If it's failed, it's because it hasn't captured that feeling of euphoria at being back.
Be great if the names were Included some how, but where do you drawn the line of the BTTV role call.
It's tricky to please all, glad I'm not the one having to do so !5 -
I just remember Colin Walsh's sweet left foot shot hitting the winner, and running to The Covered End, something involving that would be good...1
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@PragueAddick Before we can answer about a re-brief, can we know what was the initial brief?
Looking at this, I get the feeling the artist has been overwhelmed by the amount of things they've been asked to fit in, and the result is a bit of a mess with no real focal point.
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Absolutely, you make two very good points. I forgot you are also in the bizChunes said:@PragueAddick Before we can answer about a re-brief, can we know what was the initial brief?
Looking at this, I get the feeling the artist has been overwhelmed by the amount of things they've been asked to fit in, and the result is a bit of a mess with no real focal point.
Well, as I've said, I'm just a punter on this one like everyone else, so it would be up to someone directly involved if they'd feel able to share it on here. 0 -
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Sure, but that does depend on what the main communication goal is, and to whom it's directed. Most people on this thread, shown a still of Walshie's goal, will recognise it instantly, and it will trigger all those memories. Imagine an under-35 year old walking past and glancing at a mural featuring it. What does he/she see? Just another goal at the Valley from the distant past, surely?shine166 said:
You pick 1 of 3 images that people recognise : Walshes goal, gates opening or the balloons being released. When you already have a visual that evokes emotion/memory, it's next to impossible to improve on that.Boom said:
Couldn’t you knock something up as the resident artist?shine166 said:
That's fair enough, tricky thing is though, only a handful of people would have any clue who any of the people are now days from umages, let alone 20 years time from nowkillerandflash said:I can understand why they wouldn't want to show Walsh and the players though, if the mural is more about the spectators and those who helped get us back.
If it's failed, it's because it hasn't captured that feeling of euphoria at being back.
Be great if the names were Included some how, but where do you drawn the line of the BTTV role call.
It's tricky to please all, glad I'm not the one having to do so !1 -
How about a quadrant mural with something like this as a way to convey the story
Top Left:
locked gates, with a Message To Our Fans flyer laying on the floor
Top Right:
Vote Valley sign / Woolwich Town Hall
Bottom left:
Bonfire on the pitch
Bottom right:
Roger Alwen opening the gates and the date on it6 -
Ah, fair enough. I doubt we'll get the brief but if anyone from CAST is reading, I'd be happy to help.PragueAddick said:
Absolutely, you make two very good points. I forgot you are also in the bizChunes said:@PragueAddick Before we can answer about a re-brief, can we know what was the initial brief?
Looking at this, I get the feeling the artist has been overwhelmed by the amount of things they've been asked to fit in, and the result is a bit of a mess with no real focal point. Well, as I've said, I'm just a punter on this one like everyone else, so it would be up to someone directly involved if they'd feel able to share it on here.
Purely from the outside, I'd say the best way forward is either to decide on a single part of the BTTV story to focus on, and make that the focal point... (As with the Seb mural, which I'm sure we all love.)
Or, it's to challenge the artist to come up with a coherent and meaningful structure that can fit in multiple parts of the BTTV story.
If CAST do decide to follow the second approach, I'd still suggest drastically reducing the amount of elements we are trying to fit in. Briefs with lots of boxes to tick always lead to bad creative.7 -
120% agree...😉Chunes said:
Ah, fair enough. I doubt we'll get the brief but if anyone from CAST is reading, I'd be happy to help.PragueAddick said:
Absolutely, you make two very good points. I forgot you are also in the bizChunes said:@PragueAddick Before we can answer about a re-brief, can we know what was the initial brief?
Looking at this, I get the feeling the artist has been overwhelmed by the amount of things they've been asked to fit in, and the result is a bit of a mess with no real focal point. Well, as I've said, I'm just a punter on this one like everyone else, so it would be up to someone directly involved if they'd feel able to share it on here.
Purely from the outside, I'd say the best way forward is either to decide on a single part of the BTTV story to focus on, and make that the focal point... (As with the Seb mural, which I'm sure we all love.)
Or, it's to challenge the artist to come up with a coherent and meaningful structure that can fit in multiple parts of the BTTV story.
If CAST do decide to follow the second approach, I'd still suggest drastically reducing the amount of elements we are trying to fit in. Briefs with lots of boxes to tick always leads to bad creative.1 -
What ever happened to the gates Tony Keohane was put in charge of?2
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Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that the mural was to commorate those that helped us get back, I wouldn't have a clue who any of them ate by photograph or name. I'm 40 and know the image of that goal, most youth would have seen the goal at some point.PragueAddick said:
Sure, but that does depend on what the main communication goal is, and to whom it's directed. Most people on this thread, shown a still of Walshie's goal, will recognise it instantly, and it will trigger all those memories. Imagine an under-35 year old walking past and glancing at a mural featuring it. What does he/she see? Just another goal at the Valley from the distant past, surely?shine166 said:
You pick 1 of 3 images that people recognise : Walshes goal, gates opening or the balloons being released. When you already have a visual that evokes emotion/memory, it's next to impossible to improve on that.Boom said:
Couldn’t you knock something up as the resident artist?shine166 said:
That's fair enough, tricky thing is though, only a handful of people would have any clue who any of the people are now days from umages, let alone 20 years time from nowkillerandflash said:I can understand why they wouldn't want to show Walsh and the players though, if the mural is more about the spectators and those who helped get us back.
If it's failed, it's because it hasn't captured that feeling of euphoria at being back.
Be great if the names were Included some how, but where do you drawn the line of the BTTV role call.
It's tricky to please all, glad I'm not the one having to do so !
Blokes opening a gate, balloons being released, VOTV fanzine, all pretty abstract images. What you can't do is shoe horn 15 separate images into 1 20 foot mural and make it cohesive.
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The reason I asked where the mural was planned for was because it seems to be a bit cart before horse to commission a large piece of work like a mural before understanding the shape, scale and and positioning it will take. Of course, it may well be that this is well known already, but it would be useful to know if there's a particular place for it.
In answer to Prague's questions I'd say that I like the suggestions that others have made, I'd add as the purpose that for me it is: to convey a sense of the importance of place and community to a football club (our football club). As for the target audiences I'd say it is twofold. For fans who were around at the time it is about reinforcing the positive memories that they have of the day and a reminder that this club exists because of that generation's preparedness to fight for it. For anyone else who visits The Valley, it should be a sign that we are proud of our club and its history. That we recognise the tremendous importance that the club has in people's lives, but for the club to be successful we need everyone (owners, managers, players, supporters and the wider community) to work together to support it; together we can do great things. This, of course, assumes that everyone has the club's interest's at heart, sadly that is not an assumption that has held much water in recent years.
As for specific design, I think it should focus very much on the momentous day. The whole story of the exile and the battle to return is too broad for a single mural. For readers, it is covered excellently by Rick's excellent book. For a more general audience, I'm sure that the Museum has it covered. Personally I'd go for a simple triptych based on the three most iconic images of the day: Alwyn unlocking the gates; The balloon release (more of a close up with more emphasis on the fans than the image I found); Colin Walsh's goal (without the annoying overlay of a young fan that I have here).
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The museum is in the process of preparing a new display room dedicated to the Valley and we also have a display already about Selhurst and the return, including Walshie's left boot @StigStig said:The reason I asked where the mural was planned for was because it seems to be a bit cart before horse to commission a large piece of work like a mural before understanding the shape, scale and and positioning it will take. Of course, it may well be that this is well known already, but it would be useful to know if there's a particular place for it.
In answer to Prague's questions I'd say that I like the suggestions that others have made, I'd add as the purpose that for me it is: to convey a sense of the importance of place and community to a football club (our football club). As for the target audiences I'd say it is twofold. For fans who were around at the time it is about reinforcing the positive memories that they have of the day and a reminder that this club exists because of that generation's preparedness to fight for it. For anyone else who visits The Valley, it should be a sign that we are proud of our club and its history. That we recognise the tremendous importance that the club has in people's lives, but for the club to be successful we need everyone (owners, managers, players, supporters and the wider community) to work together to support it; together we can do great things. This, of course, assumes that everyone has the club's interest's at heart, sadly that is not an assumption that has held much water in recent years.
As for specific design, I think it should focus very much on the momentous day. The whole story of the exile and the battle to return is too broad for a single mural. For readers, it is covered excellently by Rick's excellent book. For a more general audience, I'm sure that the Museum has it covered. Personally I'd go of a simple triptych based on the three most iconic images of the day: Alwyn unlocking the gates; The balloon release (more of a close up with more emphasis on the fans than the image I found); Colin Walsh's goal (without the annoying overlay of a young fan that I have here).
It's also covered on the excellent but increasingly out of date timeline : -)
But the museum display isn't the same as a mural which is planned for the external wall of the club shop opposite the CACT space ie where the cash machine is.2 -
There's not a big enough wall.seth plum said:What about a double life size representation of Chris Tugwell?0
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