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MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic vs Birmingham: Carabao Cup: Tues 13th Aug 2024 KO 19:45 +POST P21
Comments
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Campbell just isn’t a striker, and if he’s there for pace and chasing down then he should be an ‘off the bench’ player as he clearly can’t be bothered to do it for long!I really struggle to see what Anderson brings to the side, with Edun ever worse in midfield- abysmal!Kanu tried his hardest, but with no help from Campbell and no one playing off him it was hard- he was knackered!Aneke struggled when coming on, but grew into the game when we decided to be on the front foot and give him an option to hold up for.
small was absolutely woeful - and really can’t complain that he isn’t starting, Watson was Watson and Ramsay was poor when he came on too.Zack Mitchell player very well, would like to see him kick on this season - no reason why he shouldn’t be playing infront of REG.
coventry did alright, Berry looked very good - with manion, jones and gilesphey continuing to be solid
can’t say we played ‘badly’ - just didn’t play overly well, no threat or magic in midfield, and our game plan seems to be putting pressure on their touch and keeping them in tight corners- dull but effective I suppose
another striker needed- one that’ll get fans on their feed and scare defenders (could this be K Dixon?), another CM/CAM who can add a touch of magic (a Lee Tomlin of yesteryear type player) and I wouldn’t say no to another winger from the bench.5 -
Aberdeen, Newport, Port Vale… all in August. Same difference - the main point I was making is that our defending was shocking and set us up for the shit season we had.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont you mean the three we conceded away @ Newport?Callumcafc said:
NJ appears to have done wonders with the defence already. When you look at last season’s league table, the teams that conceded a goal per game or less, they finished 1st, 2nd, 7th and 9th.AFKABartram said:I really wish I could be more like @Callumcafc
i really do mate.I’ve seen us three times in recent weeks (a friendly, a. League game, a cup game) and I’ve seen absolutely nothing to give me any confidence we might get a bit of enjoyment and excitement from this season (and we are already out of one of the two cups in the opening breath of the season).
We seem a bit more workmanlike in the press and a bit more defensively organised, but I’ve seen too many other positives from nearly 300 mins of football tbh. We seem to have a big squad with a lot of averageness. No idea where a decent goals return will come from if Leaburn doesn’t come back soon and come back good.Really hope I’m being harsh and things kick in soon as I’m not finding it a great watch at the moment
A back line is:
1. harder to fix during the middle of the season compared to a front line
2. more closely correlated to a successful season than a front line
There is still 45 league games for the attacking to click. And I’m confident that some at some point it will happen.
This is far far far better than coming out of the Valley conceding three at home to Port Vale like this time last year.
We have a solid foundation to move forward with. The attacking hasn’t got properly into gear yet but we are two competitive games in, it only takes a couple going in and we’ll be away.7 -
Got rid of 3 decent players and replaced them with what exactly?, billionaire champagne owners with lemonade pockets imho.
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This meltdown from some is honestly embarrassing.33
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Yeah I was more comparing our last two results in the League CupCallumcafc said:
Aberdeen, Newport, Port Vale… all in August. Same difference - the main point I was making is that our defending was shocking and set us up for the shit season we had.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont you mean the three we conceded away @ Newport?Callumcafc said:
NJ appears to have done wonders with the defence already. When you look at last season’s league table, the teams that conceded a goal per game or less, they finished 1st, 2nd, 7th and 9th.AFKABartram said:I really wish I could be more like @Callumcafc
i really do mate.I’ve seen us three times in recent weeks (a friendly, a. League game, a cup game) and I’ve seen absolutely nothing to give me any confidence we might get a bit of enjoyment and excitement from this season (and we are already out of one of the two cups in the opening breath of the season).
We seem a bit more workmanlike in the press and a bit more defensively organised, but I’ve seen too many other positives from nearly 300 mins of football tbh. We seem to have a big squad with a lot of averageness. No idea where a decent goals return will come from if Leaburn doesn’t come back soon and come back good.Really hope I’m being harsh and things kick in soon as I’m not finding it a great watch at the moment
A back line is:
1. harder to fix during the middle of the season compared to a front line
2. more closely correlated to a successful season than a front line
There is still 45 league games for the attacking to click. And I’m confident that some at some point it will happen.
This is far far far better than coming out of the Valley conceding three at home to Port Vale like this time last year.0 -
Think you are going to have to get used to it not being a great watch this season which is ok by me if it gets us out of this shitty league. But will we have enough to do so? Only time will tell.AFKABartram said:I really wish I could be more like @Callumcafc
i really do mate.I’ve seen us three times in recent weeks (a friendly, a. League game, a cup game) and I’ve seen absolutely nothing to give me any confidence we might get a bit of enjoyment and excitement from this season (and we are already out of one of the two cups in the opening breath of the season).
We seem a bit more workmanlike in the press and a bit more defensively organised, but I’ve seen too many other positives from nearly 300 mins of football tbh. We seem to have a big squad with a lot of averageness. No idea where a decent goals return will come from if Leaburn doesn’t come back soon and come back good.Really hope I’m being harsh and things kick in soon as I’m not finding it a great watch at the moment14 -
Felt like a preseason game that. Neither side looked particularly interested and another than a 5 min spell where Birmingham woke up a bit it was pretty pedestrian stuff from both. I was more encouraged than discouraged though. The back three looked good again, this time with REG looking strong in Mitchell's absence. Still question marks over Gillesphey but overall they worked together and didn't put each other under too much pressure passing out, and all of them put in some proper crunching tackles. They also kept May very quiet which was nice to see, Lloyd Jones looked like he was going to eat him. Coventry looked very good and that's the most encouraging thing we could have at this stage in the season as he's a very important piece. Berry started well but faded. Anderson busy but lacking quality, I think I'd rather see Berry, Docherty and Coventry next match. Campbell's pace is an asset though he still has a lot of developing to do.The main problem today was Small. We'd put a lot of stock in him playing very high but his feet were all over the place today and he didn't make the most of any openings. We looked better in the brief time Ramsay was playing that role on the right and it does go to show that if the wingbacks don't turn up it will affect our creativity quite severely. It's a shame because if Small had been at it it might have been a different game but he was a bit all over the place. Another encouraging thing was the subs. Zach Mitchell looked very, very composed and Edun looked properly up for it and put himself about very well. Very unlike our usual cup games where no-one looks like they've kicked a ball before.In the end we made a hash of a penalty and got done by a screamer in a game where I don't think either side was thinking of much beyond getting more minutes and trying out some different players. I'm glad that the defence looks strong, Coventry is performing and no-one had an absolute pig. Newport last season this was not10
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I know how you used to play. Keep on topic please.golfaddick said:All over.
What a loaf of crap.
Same old same old.
Cant cross
Cant shoot
Cant score4 -
Beaten by a stronger, better side.3
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It doesn’t matter we’ve got this wonderful press , it makes your trousers look as good as new once usedOff_it said:
Yeah, all that's true. But it is maybe just slightly concerning that in two games now we haven't been able to create a single noteworthy chance when we've got the ball.Callumcafc said:Heavily rotated Birmingham beat heavily rotated Charlton by single goal thanks to a 25 yard effort from a 19 year old right back playing out of position that wouldn’t be able to do it again if you gave him 100 attempts.
Yeah I’m over this one already. Not sure others are going to be though.
We Have fuck all creativity on show so far but who cares if the binary bores grind their way to promotion
but if it doesn’t happen we know it’ll be due to a lack of creativity and finishing prowess
Nothing a dull as fuck 1-0 victory over the might o’s won’t sort out5 - Sponsored links:
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What we know so far.
1. Plan A is to play the high press and win possession through that.
2. Plan B, there is no Plan B. If Plan A is not working you change like for like players in the same positions.
3. Doing the same thing over and over again when it is not working is the definition of madness.
4. Goals are going to come' from all over the pitch', but not apparently from any of our strikers.
5. Even when Plan A is working as against Wigan, it is tedious and unattractive to watch.
6. When it is not working, as tonight, it is tedious, unattractive and depressing as well.
But... early days, Fortress Valley etc11 -
I thought we matched them in all areas. Both defences were well on top with few chances for either team.We were poor in the attacking third. Small, Watson and Ramsay all guilty of poor crosses. We had three or four efforts on goal from outside the box that all went in the stand. They had one that was a great hit.We worked hard all game and pressed as a team. Credit to Campbell and Kanu. (Who are probably, with a full squad our fourth and fifth strikers).
When Birmingham beat our press they looked dangerous but again, it led to no clear cut chances.Biggest disappointment was the penalty. It was clear that Campbell didn’t fancy it. Berry or Kanu who scored a pen in pre season should have taken responsibility.
So no doom and gloom from me and no long term predictions based on that game. Plenty to take from it and move forwards with.12 -
Jones ball babyyyyySouthbank said:What we know so far.
1. Plan A is to play the high press and win possession through that.
2. Plan B, there is no Plan B. If Plan A is not working you change like for like players in the same positions.
3. Doing the same thing over and over again when it is not working is the definition of madness.
4. Goals are going to come' from all over the pitch', but not apparently from any of our strikers.
5. Even when Plan A is working is against Wigan, it is tedious and unattractive to watch.
6. When it is not working, as tonight, it is tedious, unattractive and depressing as well.
But... early days, Fortress Valley etc3 -
Who spent about 12m in the summer.StreekDerek said:Beaten by a stronger, better side.6 -
How many from Mannion?Southbank said:
From 'all over the pitch' remember.The Prince-e-Paul said:So where do our 70-80 goals this season come from? Answers on a postcard Mr Jones!
This style of play is truly awful to watch. I'm 2 games in and havlng seen two 1-0 games I'm pretty bored with it. It's like a scene from 28 Days Later, with zombies chasing around like lunatics. It might intimidate the opposition, if that the psychology then fine, but at least can it be successful. If that isn't, then what does Jones do. His team is being drilled to do this for 90 minutes every game, but they are creating precious little and only a defender has scored so far!
The midfield and forwards must have been absent in creativity class over the summer, because they are just woeful. Or maybe they all went to creative thinking by mistake.0 -
Just a little reminder, Nathan Jones teams do tend to start quite slowly before it clicks. In 17/18 they won 2 of their first 6, finished 2nd. In 18/19 they won 2 of their first 7, finished 1st. in 20/21 they won 3 of their first 6, finished 12th in the Championship. Might take a little bit before it's as fluid as we'd like
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Both teams made changes and it was fairly evenly matched. We missed a penalty and they scored from 25 yards. No one really connected well with crosses, our press looked good and theirs poor. Our short passing was poor and theirs was good. They spent loads this summer and we haven’t spent close to anywhere near as much. Think everyone is having a massive overreaction after 2 games it’s different personnel3
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However for some context we're out of a cup that no one really cares about, beaten by a side who spent 12m in the summer and we've won a tricky first league game away from home.Southbank said:What we know so far.
1. Plan A is to play the high press and win possession through that.
2. Plan B, there is no Plan B. If Plan A is not working you change like for like players in the same positions.
3. Doing the same thing over and over again when it is not working is the definition of madness.
4. Goals are going to come' from all over the pitch', but not apparently from any of our strikers.
5. Even when Plan A is working as against Wigan, it is tedious and unattractive to watch.
6. When it is not working, as tonight, it is tedious, unattractive and depressing as well.
But... early days, Fortress Valley etc
It hasn't been great but some people are talking like we've been beaten 3-0 and 4-0 in our first 2 games.9 -
Lack of creativity is going to cost us this season unless something is done about before the window shuts. Far too many defensive players on the pitch at one time were in for one hell of a yawn fest season
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Lack of creativity is going to cost us this season unless something is done about before the window shuts. Far too many defensive players on the pitch at one time were in for one hell of a yawn fest season
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It's how Sky works. You pushed the red button. Leuth pushed the blue button. Same game, different perspective.LargeAddick said:
Think you were watching a different game to me.Leuth said:Birmingham have just spent ten zillion quid and loads of their signings were on show. They're a frighteningly good L1 side and we largely matched them while not playing well. Chin up folks4 -
Comparisons to the start of last season are well over the top.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
However for some context we're out of a cup that no one really cares about, beaten by a side who spent 12m in the summer and we've won a tricky first league game away from home.Southbank said:What we know so far.
1. Plan A is to play the high press and win possession through that.
2. Plan B, there is no Plan B. If Plan A is not working you change like for like players in the same positions.
3. Doing the same thing over and over again when it is not working is the definition of madness.
4. Goals are going to come' from all over the pitch', but not apparently from any of our strikers.
5. Even when Plan A is working as against Wigan, it is tedious and unattractive to watch.
6. When it is not working, as tonight, it is tedious, unattractive and depressing as well.
But... early days, Fortress Valley etc
It hasn't been great but some people are talking like we've been beaten 3-0 and 4-0 in our first 2 games.2 -
Be nice to see Docherty and Berry play in the middle together. Can see they have the experience and quality I think we will need. Defence is solid. Don’t think Campbell is a striker and I struggle to see the quality in Kanu unlike others. Not far off, we will be difficult to beat but just need a bit more quality to think we can put on a promotion push.2
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Hang on: how can a penalty be missed if it's on target?supaclive said:WE HAD ONE SHOT ON TARGET
THE MISSED PENALTY
Simply we aren't good enough up front2 -
On a player by player basis I thought Kanu, Small and to a lesser extent Watson struggled.Dodgy penalty aside I thought Campbell and Berry were by far our most threatening players, I also liked Anderson today despite what others say. Coventry had a good game and the back three plus Mannion were solid.3
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...it was saved?jimmymelrose said:
Hang on: how can a penalty be missed if it's on target?supaclive said:WE HAD ONE SHOT ON TARGET
THE MISSED PENALTY
Simply we aren't good enough up front6 -
And that is my main worry. I think we will be fine against the better sides that try and play against us, but if a team sits back against us I don’t see how we are going to consistently create chances yetOff_it said:
No, it's not semantics. What I'm saying is that we seem to be able to get chances when we can force the other team into a mistake. Great, that's a chance, we're all agreed.Callumcafc said:
That’s proper semantics though. Does it matter where the chances come from? Especially when it’s a conscious decision from the manager.Off_it said:
Having a big chance and creating a big chance are two different things though. Surely you can understand that?Callumcafc said:
Three “big chances” created and none allowed so far in two games.NabySarr said:
So other than a penalty we’ve barely created anything across 2 games.Callumcafc said:Wigan (0.78) 0-1 (0.46) Charlton
Charlton (1.30) 0-1 (0.70) Birmingham
Football.Really need to see more going forward on Saturday. I hope Berry starts, he’s the only one with a bit of invention/creativity about him. I’m worried about how we are going to break down any team that sits in against us and doesn’t hand us chances by giving the ball away at the back
Tonight wasn’t great. It can be better and it will be better.
I am very confident in saying we won’t be signing a creative midfield player. Jones rarely ever likes playing with one. We are going to have to get on with it.If people don’t want to just get on with it then I suppose we can force Jones out and get a manager with a different philosophy.
But when they sit back and we have the ball we don't look like doing anything.
But as you say, it is what it is. But if that's the way we choose to play then you will always be getting people pointing out that we don't create a lot when we've got the ball.Saturday will be a big test, at home to a weaker opponent, will we have enough to break them down and create chances? Only way I can see us doing it at the moment is with Aneke coming off the bench and causing some carnage. I hope Berry starts as he’s probably our best chance of doing anything with the ball1 -
2 games into a minimum 48 game season, long way to go. Let’s judge after 10 games and a full transfer window6
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Bless. I think he's had a whack on the head.SELR_addicks said:
...it was saved?jimmymelrose said:
Hang on: how can a penalty be missed if it's on target?supaclive said:WE HAD ONE SHOT ON TARGET
THE MISSED PENALTY
Simply we aren't good enough up front0 -
What I’m taking from it is that we went toe to toe with the best team in the league who have spent millions pre season and have a squad of players who, man for man, are better than us. Yes, they rotated their team from Saturday as did we.
They had two shots on target. At times they beat our press, at times they didn’t. We looked decent going forward at times (Berry had three chances in the first half) plus the pen.
This expectation from some that we will beat every team we face is quite bizarre. Or that tonight’s match is how we should judge the rest of the season.
Yes, we were poor in the final third and we should feel frustrated by that. Some players played well, some less so. That’s football. But if I was a Birmingham fan I wouldn’t come away from that game thinking we will stroll the league. In fact I’d be concerned that we were unable to break down a back five that contained only two first choice defenders.
Let’s keep perspective and make some longer term judgements in ten games or so.16
