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MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic vs Birmingham: Carabao Cup: Tues 13th Aug 2024 KO 19:45 +POST P21
Comments
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99% fair assessment from NJ - causing them problems "all night" is perhaps a stretch but otherwise can't disagree with it.fenaddick said:5 -
Not your strongest SELR pivot I don't think but it's early in the season. I'll not write you off just yetSELR_addicks said:
I remember 2/3 years ago everyone used to joke about Ipswich already being promoted and how stupid it was based on exactly the same information. But now it suits opinions change I guess.Garrymanilow said:
I think you're confused. Them probably being the best team in the league is based on their transfer spend and the quality of the players at their disposal. You are the one who introduced basing any assessment of their quality on one game, which you've just stated yourself is silly. You've punched yourself in the dick here.SELR_addicks said:
The original assessment was that they were the best team in the league, which after one game is silly to do. So thanks for proving my point.Garrymanilow said:
One league game and one heavily rotated cup game and they've started slow. Brilliant. I think if we're assessing a team as not looking good based on one league game then we might have dipped into too silly even for here.SELR_addicks said:
They may have, on paper, the best squad in the league.Garrymanilow said:
We don't overrate the teams we play against. Birmingham were a Championship team last season and look to have a much better squad now than they did then. They've spent about £12m this summer. Realistically they probably will be the best team in the league, it's not overrating them to acknowledge that, I think it makes a lot less sense to write them off based on one game against Reading like you haveSELR_addicks said:
The best team in the league?sirjohnhumphrey said:What I’m taking from it is that we went toe to toe with the best team in the league who have spent millions pre season and have a squad of players who, man for man, are better than us. Yes, they rotated their team from Saturday as did we.
They had two shots on target. At times they beat our press, at times they didn’t. We looked decent going forward at times (Berry had three chances in the first half) plus the pen.
This expectation from some that we will beat every team we face is quite bizarre. Or that tonight’s match is how we should judge the rest of the season.
Yes, we were poor in the final third and we should feel frustrated by that. Some players played well, some less so. That’s football. But if I was a Birmingham fan I wouldn’t come away from that game thinking we will stroll the league. In fact I’d be concerned that we were unable to break down a back five that contained only two first choice defenders.
Let’s keep perspective and make some longer term judgements in ten games or so.
They drew with Reading that can barely put a team together. Why do we always have to overrate the teams we play against.
We played fine just have some issues with chance creation, there's no need to pretend it was some david v goliath battle just because we lost.
But so far this season they've started slow and have struggled in both games in parts. I wouldn't say today they looked like the best team in League One. I'm not writing them off and they may end up winning the league, but they don't look like the best team in the league right now.
They may improve but I'm sure their fans aren't too happy about their performances currently either.
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Anyway, we played fine today.Garrymanilow said:
Not your strongest SELR pivot I don't think but it's early in the season. I'll not write you off just yetSELR_addicks said:
I remember 2/3 years ago everyone used to joke about Ipswich already being promoted and how stupid it was based on exactly the same information. But now it suits opinions change I guess.Garrymanilow said:
I think you're confused. Them probably being the best team in the league is based on their transfer spend and the quality of the players at their disposal. You are the one who introduced basing any assessment of their quality on one game, which you've just stated yourself is silly. You've punched yourself in the dick here.SELR_addicks said:
The original assessment was that they were the best team in the league, which after one game is silly to do. So thanks for proving my point.Garrymanilow said:
One league game and one heavily rotated cup game and they've started slow. Brilliant. I think if we're assessing a team as not looking good based on one league game then we might have dipped into too silly even for here.SELR_addicks said:
They may have, on paper, the best squad in the league.Garrymanilow said:
We don't overrate the teams we play against. Birmingham were a Championship team last season and look to have a much better squad now than they did then. They've spent about £12m this summer. Realistically they probably will be the best team in the league, it's not overrating them to acknowledge that, I think it makes a lot less sense to write them off based on one game against Reading like you haveSELR_addicks said:
The best team in the league?sirjohnhumphrey said:What I’m taking from it is that we went toe to toe with the best team in the league who have spent millions pre season and have a squad of players who, man for man, are better than us. Yes, they rotated their team from Saturday as did we.
They had two shots on target. At times they beat our press, at times they didn’t. We looked decent going forward at times (Berry had three chances in the first half) plus the pen.
This expectation from some that we will beat every team we face is quite bizarre. Or that tonight’s match is how we should judge the rest of the season.
Yes, we were poor in the final third and we should feel frustrated by that. Some players played well, some less so. That’s football. But if I was a Birmingham fan I wouldn’t come away from that game thinking we will stroll the league. In fact I’d be concerned that we were unable to break down a back five that contained only two first choice defenders.
Let’s keep perspective and make some longer term judgements in ten games or so.
They drew with Reading that can barely put a team together. Why do we always have to overrate the teams we play against.
We played fine just have some issues with chance creation, there's no need to pretend it was some david v goliath battle just because we lost.
But so far this season they've started slow and have struggled in both games in parts. I wouldn't say today they looked like the best team in League One. I'm not writing them off and they may end up winning the league, but they don't look like the best team in the league right now.
They may improve but I'm sure their fans aren't too happy about their performances currently either.
Just didn't come away thinking 'Oh yeah Birmingham are definitely walking the league playing like this'. We will see how it goes.0 -
Looked to me like the penalty was a bit school playground like. "I won the penalty so I'm taking it". It looked a poor decision from the off.
I thought there were a number of positives: we were the better team until the goal; defensively we looked more solid than I've seen for some time; we did create some chances and I really think some of the more negative comments I've read on the thread are unwarranted at present.
It wasn't all good as we desparately need some creativity, though big-spending Brum fans can''t have been impressed with the number of unforced errors made by their team.
Finally, I'm so pleased I don't normally sit anywhere near the two loudmouths behind me who didn't stop abusing and swearing at the players of both sides and in particular the referee for the entire game. No idea if they are regulars but if they are, I feel sorry for those who normally sit near them,0 -
Didn’t follow the match because I was out, not out out, just out.Understandably NJ’s post match response is very different to a lot of the views on here.Does anyone agree with him?0
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Well, if one good thing came out of tonight for me I forgot we were even playing so missed the whole cup capitulation' Happy not to add a further to my collection.
Onto Orient on Saturday. Let's be aving you Jones, you talk the talk.0 -
I think a lot of what he's saying holds true for the first 30ish minutes up to the penalty and for a bit after, we did look good and our press did give us a couple of chances that Berry couldn't finish.sillav nitram said:Didn’t follow the match because I was out, not out out, just out.Understandably NJ’s post match response is very different to a lot of the views on here.Does anyone agree with him?
Birmingham end up scoring a worldie not too long after. (Edit, I thought the penalty happened way after it actually did).
From after the goal for about 15-20 mins Birmingham were well on top and we didn't really do much.
Then subs get made and we come into the game a bit more but don't create too much. The red card happens and we get more of the ball but fail to find the right ball in the box.
Was a competitive game but the penalty miss was the big turning point. We didn't really create enough after going 1-0 down to really push for a goal.2 -
Not really. He said we caused them problems all night. That was not the case. Especially in the second half when we hardly laid a glove.sillav nitram said:Didn’t follow the match because I was out, not out out, just out.Understandably NJ’s post match response is very different to a lot of the views on here.Does anyone agree with him?
Early days so won't get too carried away.
But saying that, from what I've seen so far we are really lacking endeavour to move the ball into dangerous areas.
I'm praying Godden comes good. Because if he doesn't we could have some real issues in the goals scored column.
Just look at the penalty tonight. Nobody was falling over themselves to take it. Campbell seemed to get lumbered with the job, and he didn't look all to happy about it.
We all know May would've stuck it away. You can't buy that sort of confidence. And we let bags of it walk out the door.
In Jones we trust. But if the goals don't come, his decision to let him go will bear heavy.5 -
I don't mind TC missing but the apparent lack of understanding over who was gonna take the penalty was embarrassing. That's on Jones1
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Thought Birmingham were much better at playing out from the back, but they produced little around the box (which we also defended very well).
They scored from 30 yards... and we missed a pen ... we missed the easier chance and they scored a worldie. What can you do? That was the material difference.
But not saying we were unlucky, think it's clear to everyone that we are severely lacking some quality in the final third. The fact we have six strikers yet only two of them are both senior and reliably fit... We know that will cost us. Kanu & TC are nowhere near the point of their careers where they will be regularly impacting games, Leaburn is coming back from a potentially career-changing injury, Chuks is... Chuks, and that leaves a 33-year old Godden, and Mr. Gassan Ahadme - who we have spent 1 million pounds on, and for which we're yet to really see any kind of justification for that kind of money.
It also looks like we mostly don't want the ball. We look like we'd rather win it high up the pitch and try and score from there. But to counter at that kind of pace, you need quality - which we don't have. And when we have possession deeper, we can't give it back to the opposition soon enough. I sincerely hope there is a lot more to come in this department, but I sat very close to NJ today and he was not objecting to some of the hopeless balls being played tonight.
I'm not sure if we need a creative player per se, but we 100% need a lot more quality and composure.
People say it's early and you can't judge. But glaring issues are glaring issues, and they have been season after season.13 -
From the two games I've seen this season I'm focusing on how much better organised we are, the defensive improvement is something we can do nothing without and it was essential that was gripped, and it seems to have been. The other stuff is harder. Clearly we are going to go 532/352 and thats a potentially league winning way to play with good consistent delivery from the full backs. We haven't quite seen that and Small had possibly his worst game since we signed him which didn't help.
Birmingham were OK, we were OK thought we handled that big fucker that seems to have played for them for about 15 years who I now realise I'm mixing up with Zigic.
To make this formation and hard press work we have to commit bodies to that press and those same bodies have to get up the pitch. Its not quite stitching together but getting that defensive horror show we've all seen for the last few seasons was always the biggest priority and with more time under Jones it should get better. I think Ahadme will be a huge player for us this season and he would have made a massive difference tonight. Kanu really impresses me with his work ethic but we were asking a lot tonight from him and a guy who has always been a winger we are shoe-horning into a centre forward role. We need consistently from the wing backs and a much better delivery, we also need Ahadme to occupy and generally be horrible to centre halves, they had it way too easy physically tonight4 -
A much stronger side and squad needed a wonder strike to beat a pretty solid Charlton side with no cutting edge. I think that just about sums it up.Jones played solidly, REG can play better than he did tonight, Gillesphy I suspect will soon be benched for Potts (if he signs), Small was off the standards he showed last season, Watson is not good enough for a top 8 side and could be moved on, Coventry did fine, Anderson contributed literally nothing, Berry was quite dangerous in patches and worked hard, the lads up front ran their socks off, but the midfield were too much out of possession to fashion any chances for them. Edun offers nothing and suspect he will be sold.Really have no interest in this cup and had predicted a one goal margin defeat.I think things will come good on Saturday and we will build on the healthy 3 league points already collected. EIEIEIO…0
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Also, where's Taylor? Being rested for next season?7
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I want to both like & lol this.Southbank said:What we know so far.
1. Plan A is to play the high press and win possession through that.
2. Plan B, there is no Plan B. If Plan A is not working you change like for like players in the same positions.
3. Doing the same thing over and over again when it is not working is the definition of madness.
4. Goals are going to come' from all over the pitch', but not apparently from any of our strikers.
5. Even when Plan A is working as against Wigan, it is tedious and unattractive to watch.
6. When it is not working, as tonight, it is tedious, unattractive and depressing as well.
But... early days, Fortress Valley etc0 -
Just isn't fun to watch. We moved the ball slow, lumped it diagonally, rinse and repeat.
I just want CBT back. At least with Corey, you gave him the ball, and something was going to happen. None of these players have that magic about them. Most positive player was probably Berry, but his shooting was off. I still think we lost our best 3 players, by a mile, and didn't replace any of them efficiently. Hopefully that's proven wrong as the season goes on of course.
Obviously it's a cup game and people will dismiss it as a result, but forking out money on tickets and petrol to watch that shit ain't easy. Not one memorable moment the whole game for us, and I honestly don't see the difference from this side and every other Charlton team I've watched for the last few years in terms of creativity.
Great finish by the Brum player, thought their number 7 also looked very dangerous. I don't expect to be anywhere near Birmingham, I reckon they'll be 15 or so points clear of us at least when it's all said and done.
Roll on Orient at home, a proper test, and a bit of preview to how the first quarter of the season will pan out imo.15 -
But we don't need to be as we will no longer be relying on Alfie to score all of our goals, it's much better to spread the goals throughout the team.supaclive said:WE HAD ONE SHOT ON TARGET
THE MISSED PENALTY
Simply we aren't good enough up front6 -
It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
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Don't think we needed any games to prove that that was a ridiculous decision.EveshamAddick said:It’s so predictable isn’t it? And can you imagine the pelters that Apples would have got deciding TC is the answer to our goal scoring problems (now we’ve sold last season’s top scorer). Jones/the club are on thin ice here with the May sale. How many games for them to prove that was a good decision for the club?
Even if you play shit, you should still be scoring if you get a penalty.
In jones we trust ................... apparently
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I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
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Need the players to play that way. These long diagonal balls from the likes of Gillesphey aren’t working.
Two up top of TC and Kanu was never gonna work and led to more long balls to try stretch them but didn’t come off0 -
Not at their level yet2
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On the plus side, won't have to pay over the odds for that shitty sky now service again, with all its audio stutters and farts0
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I can't talk tactics like some on here, but I've noticed over the years that it's good to have someone who can bang the ball into the back of the net.charltonbob said:
But we don't need to be as we will no longer be relying on Alfie to score all of our goals, it's much better to spread the goals throughout the team.supaclive said:WE HAD ONE SHOT ON TARGET
THE MISSED PENALTY
Simply we aren't good enough up front7 -
Is that you Nathan?Raith_C_Chattonell said:
I can't talk tactics like some on here, but I've noticed over the years that it's good to have someone who can bang the ball into the back of the net.charltonbob said:
But we don't need to be as we will no longer be relying on Alfie to score all of our goals, it's much better to spread the goals throughout the team.supaclive said:WE HAD ONE SHOT ON TARGET
THE MISSED PENALTY
Simply we aren't good enough up front7 -
Our next match is on there…ArmchairAddick said:On the plus side, won't have to pay over the odds for that shitty sky now service again, with all its audio stutters and farts1 -
Positives : Jones was good , Mitchell was excellent bar one awful cross although at least he got into the position . Coventry was very good defensively in the second half . Jones has organised us well defensively and the first half effort was superb . Second, we tired .
negatives : ok, it’s the cup and we weren’t at full strength but we clearly aren’t going to create much and are going to rely on long balls to a target man. Midfield has very little guile so we are going to be reliant on crosses from full backs . Looks quite one dimensional .4 -
If you wait for a bus and it arrives but you can't get on because it's full then you didn't miss the bus.Off_it said:
It is the correct terminology - we missed a penalty because the keeper saved it.jimmymelrose said:
Yes, from the dictionary. I just like to insist on the use of correct terminology. Saying a saved penalty was missed is a pet hate of mine.Off_it said:
Bless. I think he's had a whack on the head.SELR_addicks said:
...it was saved?jimmymelrose said:
Hang on: how can a penalty be missed if it's on target?supaclive said:WE HAD ONE SHOT ON TARGET
THE MISSED PENALTY
Simply we aren't good enough up front
If you throw a dart accurately at a dartboard but in mid flight the dartboard falls off the wall, you didn't miss the dartboard.
If the keeper saves an accurate penalty then you didn't miss the target, it was saved.
There is a difference between a missed penalty and a saved penalty. Sorry to be pedantic about this but it's a question of clarity as initially I was unsure because I read about it on here having not seen the game.2 -
No panic stations in my mind. Things were not coming off, especially in the final third but I think it will come.3
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We are creating chances, as we had so many shots over and wide of the goal. Lots of shooting practice before Orient I hope.
TC apart from the missed pen had a lot of energy pace and getting in good positions, Berry likes to arrive late and get a shot off so let’s hope he improves on that.Need to get a couple strikers off the mark with goals and hopefully they can get into a purple patch.0
