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MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic vs Birmingham: Carabao Cup: Tues 13th Aug 2024 KO 19:45 +POST P21
Comments
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Honestly, 2 games. I think your expectations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂6 -
My views…
1) we look better defensively compared to last season
2) midfield creativity is poor
3) scoring goals will be a problem - we were very poor in the second half
4) it was a dull performance last night
On that showing, I doubt we will get enough goals to be promoted, but we will concede less as well, so I expect a mid table finish.
Squad is not strong enough and needs improvement.
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It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..4 -
We have Leaburn and Godden recovering from injuries, imagine Godden will be back sooner. Ahadme didnt feature last night. For me personally, I would start Kanu and Ahadme against Orient.BigDiddy said:My views…
1) we look better defensively compared to last season
2) midfield creativity is poor
3) scoring goals will be a problem - we were very poor in the second half
4) it was a dull performance last night
On that showing, I doubt we will get enough goals to be promoted, but we will concede less as well, so I expect a mid table finish.
Squad is not strong enough and needs improvement.
More importantly, we have only played 2 games, 1 of them being the league. We will all have a better understanding after 10 games but I really feel things will click. Aslong as we solid at the back, I have faith in our ability to nick goals when needed. I actually felt it was our wing backs who let us down as the crossing was poor.
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Last season has gone.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..Concentrate on this season and it’s still only 2 games and not sufficient time for the new players to gell.2 -
Saturday will be biggest (albeit very very early) indicator of where we're currently at.4
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I think we also need to factor in that NJ's high press style does take time to get into full flow, probably due to match fitness. Hasn't his previous teams got off to slow starts?
Thought we looked leggy second half.5 -
17/18 when Luton got promoted from League Two they only won 2 of the first 6. That also included getting beaten 3-0 at home by Swindon. 18/19 they also got promoted, only had 1 point from the opening 3 games. Only 2 wins from the first 7, and 3 wins from the first 10.ValleyGary said:I think we also need to factor in that NJ's high press style does take time to get into full flow, probably due to match fitness. Hasn't his previous teams got off to slow starts?
Thought we looked leggy second half.
22/23 when he was back, he did leave in November but they went on to finish 3rd. They only had 2 points from the first 4 games, and only won 1 of the first 6.6 -
Think it's hard to count last season. He was using players he didn't fancy and towards the end of the season was experimenting with a few things. His win % is going to take a hit when you consider where we were when he came in. Compare this side to the one in January and they're markedly different. We look defensively solid for the first time in years. That was clearly priority no1. It takes time for attacking players to build relationships. Admittedly, we haven't got much time on our hands but I'm confident it will be ok and we'll be in the play off mix at the very least.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..1 - Sponsored links:
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ValleyGary said:I think we also need to factor in that NJ's high press style does take time to get into full flow, probably due to match fitness. Hasn't his previous teams got off to slow starts?
Thought we looked leggy second half.
This its a work in progress that will still take time.1 -
He was good last night . He’s a low tempo footballer but he played well, particularly defensively .Leuth said:People who see that game and award Coventry 4 in Player Marks because Dobbo would of made us won will be the fucking death of meTo be fair , Leuth, you used to give Sarr high marks however he played .1 -
It might sound harsh, but that is what every football manager in the world with deals with unless you're Pep. You go into a club that has made signings prior to your arrival that you now manage.fenaddick said:
Think it's hard to count last season. He was using players he didn't fancy and towards the end of the season was experimenting with a few things. His win % is going to take a hit when you consider where we were when he came in. Compare this side to the one in January and they're markedly different. We look defensively solid for the first time in years. That was clearly priority no1. It takes time for attacking players to build relationships. Admittedly, we haven't got much time on our hands but I'm confident it will be ok and we'll be in the play off mix at the very least.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..
I love his character, I love his antics, and I really like his post match interviews. I did feel the same way however about the likes of Jacko and Adkins.
I still have faith he's gonna elevate us at some point, with the right players, I'm just a bit concerned how his style hasn't been implemented yet, and that we may have wasted another transfer window. Unless of course we manage to move the likes of Edun and Fraser on and replace adequately.
Leyton Orient are no mugs and I am expecting them to cause us serious problems. I was hoping by now I'd feel a bit more confident about our chances against what I expect to be a mid-table side.1 -
Not sure we can blame NJ for us not moving on the players mentioned yet. It isnt his fault that for whatever reason other clubs dont seem to want them. Unfortunately we are now paying for the poor business conducted prior to NJ's arrival. The cold hard facts are we cannot bring players in until we shift some out, Im concerned that if we cant shift the players we need to shift we might be forced into letting others go that other clubs want just to make squad spaceBraziliance said:
It might sound harsh, but that is what every football manager in the world with deals with unless you're Pep. You go into a club that has made signings prior to your arrival that you now manage.fenaddick said:
Think it's hard to count last season. He was using players he didn't fancy and towards the end of the season was experimenting with a few things. His win % is going to take a hit when you consider where we were when he came in. Compare this side to the one in January and they're markedly different. We look defensively solid for the first time in years. That was clearly priority no1. It takes time for attacking players to build relationships. Admittedly, we haven't got much time on our hands but I'm confident it will be ok and we'll be in the play off mix at the very least.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..
I love his character, I love his antics, and I really like his post match interviews. I did feel the same way however about the likes of Jacko and Adkins.
I still have faith he's gonna elevate us at some point, with the right players, I'm just a bit concerned how his style hasn't been implemented yet, and that we may have wasted another transfer window. Unless of course we manage to move the likes of Edun and Fraser on and replace adequately.
Leyton Orient are no mugs and I am expecting them to cause us serious problems. I was hoping by now I'd feel a bit more confident about our chances against what I expect to be a mid-table side.0 -
Well yes and no. Most managers arrive in time to have a window to work with. Garner had one straight away, Adkins had one pretty quickly as he came in late in the season, Jacko was made permanent just before the January window. Jones came in the day after the window closed and had to scrape around a bit. That worked well for Small but not for Wickham or Lua Lua.Braziliance said:
It might sound harsh, but that is what every football manager in the world with deals with unless you're Pep. You go into a club that has made signings prior to your arrival that you now manage.fenaddick said:
Think it's hard to count last season. He was using players he didn't fancy and towards the end of the season was experimenting with a few things. His win % is going to take a hit when you consider where we were when he came in. Compare this side to the one in January and they're markedly different. We look defensively solid for the first time in years. That was clearly priority no1. It takes time for attacking players to build relationships. Admittedly, we haven't got much time on our hands but I'm confident it will be ok and we'll be in the play off mix at the very least.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..
I love his character, I love his antics, and I really like his post match interviews. I did feel the same way however about the likes of Jacko and Adkins.
I still have faith he's gonna elevate us at some point, with the right players, I'm just a bit concerned how his style hasn't been implemented yet, and that we may have wasted another transfer window. Unless of course we manage to move the likes of Edun and Fraser on and replace adequately.
Leyton Orient are no mugs and I am expecting them to cause us serious problems. I was hoping by now I'd feel a bit more confident about our chances against what I expect to be a mid-table side.
I think his style is being implemented, it just isn't pretty so lots of people don't like it. That's fair enough and a few years ago I'd also have been annoyed but we've been in this league too long for me to care how it looks on the eye. If we scrape our way to promotion by ugly 1-0's all season then I will be delighted.
Orient are no mugs, you're right. I would counter that by saying we're defensively very solid from the looks of it and I think we'll limit their chances like we have done in the first two games. Hopefully Ramsay can get forward and provide some good crosses like he did at times against Wigan and our press creates chances like it did last night. If Berry scores with one of his chances last night I think we're all having a very different conversation.4 -
All we need now is the club to announce a red and blue stripped third kit this week and we’ll have the full circle from wigan positivity at the weekend, to abject despair by Friday.7
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of course we may not be able to move on players because they do not want to leave,AndyG said:
Not sure we can blame NJ for us not moving on the players mentioned yet. It isnt his fault that for whatever reason other clubs dont seem to want them. Unfortunately we are now paying for the poor business conducted prior to NJ's arrival. The cold hard facts are we cannot bring players in until we shift some out, Im concerned that if we cant shift the players we need to shift we might be forced into letting others go that other clubs want just to make squad spaceBraziliance said:
It might sound harsh, but that is what every football manager in the world with deals with unless you're Pep. You go into a club that has made signings prior to your arrival that you now manage.fenaddick said:
Think it's hard to count last season. He was using players he didn't fancy and towards the end of the season was experimenting with a few things. His win % is going to take a hit when you consider where we were when he came in. Compare this side to the one in January and they're markedly different. We look defensively solid for the first time in years. That was clearly priority no1. It takes time for attacking players to build relationships. Admittedly, we haven't got much time on our hands but I'm confident it will be ok and we'll be in the play off mix at the very least.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..
I love his character, I love his antics, and I really like his post match interviews. I did feel the same way however about the likes of Jacko and Adkins.
I still have faith he's gonna elevate us at some point, with the right players, I'm just a bit concerned how his style hasn't been implemented yet, and that we may have wasted another transfer window. Unless of course we manage to move the likes of Edun and Fraser on and replace adequately.
Leyton Orient are no mugs and I am expecting them to cause us serious problems. I was hoping by now I'd feel a bit more confident about our chances against what I expect to be a mid-table side.0 -
Good points re first paragraph, I am just expecting a similar outcome. Some of the signings have been good, I just think the squad was too clogged up to turn it around unless the powers that be were willing to take a financial hit, that isn't really Jones fault. The win % is still concerning regardless for me, and I hope that changes over the next ten games.fenaddick said:
Well yes and no. Most managers arrive in time to have a window to work with. Garner had one straight away, Adkins had one pretty quickly as he came in late in the season, Jacko was made permanent just before the January window. Jones came in the day after the window closed and had to scrape around a bit. That worked well for Small but not for Wickham or Lua Lua.Braziliance said:
It might sound harsh, but that is what every football manager in the world with deals with unless you're Pep. You go into a club that has made signings prior to your arrival that you now manage.fenaddick said:
Think it's hard to count last season. He was using players he didn't fancy and towards the end of the season was experimenting with a few things. His win % is going to take a hit when you consider where we were when he came in. Compare this side to the one in January and they're markedly different. We look defensively solid for the first time in years. That was clearly priority no1. It takes time for attacking players to build relationships. Admittedly, we haven't got much time on our hands but I'm confident it will be ok and we'll be in the play off mix at the very least.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..
I love his character, I love his antics, and I really like his post match interviews. I did feel the same way however about the likes of Jacko and Adkins.
I still have faith he's gonna elevate us at some point, with the right players, I'm just a bit concerned how his style hasn't been implemented yet, and that we may have wasted another transfer window. Unless of course we manage to move the likes of Edun and Fraser on and replace adequately.
Leyton Orient are no mugs and I am expecting them to cause us serious problems. I was hoping by now I'd feel a bit more confident about our chances against what I expect to be a mid-table side.
I think his style is being implemented, it just isn't pretty so lots of people don't like it. That's fair enough and a few years ago I'd also have been annoyed but we've been in this league too long for me to care how it looks on the eye. If we scrape our way to promotion by ugly 1-0's all season then I will be delighted.
Orient are no mugs, you're right. I would counter that by saying we're defensively very solid from the looks of it and I think we'll limit their chances like we have done in the first two games. Hopefully Ramsay can get forward and provide some good crosses like he did at times against Wigan and our press creates chances like it did last night. If Berry scores with one of his chances last night I think we're all having a very different conversation.
I'd argue it isn't with the style. The way he is setting the team up is what we expect, but in terms of the energy and work rates, I am not seeing what he has spoke about. Of course it's early doors, but with a proper pre-season, and the time to address it, I was expecting it already. Again, I think that could be down to the players though, I don't rate a lot of this squad. I don't believe Jones is happy with the squad either and was probably expecting more.
I reckon we'll draw 1 all with Orient, hopefully that's just my pessimism though and we put out an energetic performance and stuff them.
Anyway said most of my negatives, positives, Zack Mitchell looked like a progressive centre back with a decent ceiling, Mannion looks fairly assured imo, better than Isted and AMB just from a few glimpses, Lloyd Jones looked very decent and I have no concerns with him and A.Mitchell being 2 of the 3 main stay centre backs, finally I liked the look of Berry. His shooting boots he left elsewhere, but his movement was nice and I think over the course of the season he should chip in with a few goals.1 -
What on earth are you talking about, re: energy and work-rates being low. We absolutely pressed Birmingham as a pack, and if they broke the press we flooded back in recovery really quickly. They created really very little because of our press. The issue wasn't with energy or work-rate, it was with ball retention and quality of delivery, and to a certain extent the finishing of what was created by our high-energy styleBraziliance said:
Good points re first paragraph, I am just expecting a similar outcome. Some of the signings have been good, I just think the squad was too clogged up to turn it around unless the powers that be were willing to take a financial hit, that isn't really Jones fault. The win % is still concerning regardless for me, and I hope that changes over the next ten games.fenaddick said:
Well yes and no. Most managers arrive in time to have a window to work with. Garner had one straight away, Adkins had one pretty quickly as he came in late in the season, Jacko was made permanent just before the January window. Jones came in the day after the window closed and had to scrape around a bit. That worked well for Small but not for Wickham or Lua Lua.Braziliance said:
It might sound harsh, but that is what every football manager in the world with deals with unless you're Pep. You go into a club that has made signings prior to your arrival that you now manage.fenaddick said:
Think it's hard to count last season. He was using players he didn't fancy and towards the end of the season was experimenting with a few things. His win % is going to take a hit when you consider where we were when he came in. Compare this side to the one in January and they're markedly different. We look defensively solid for the first time in years. That was clearly priority no1. It takes time for attacking players to build relationships. Admittedly, we haven't got much time on our hands but I'm confident it will be ok and we'll be in the play off mix at the very least.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..
I love his character, I love his antics, and I really like his post match interviews. I did feel the same way however about the likes of Jacko and Adkins.
I still have faith he's gonna elevate us at some point, with the right players, I'm just a bit concerned how his style hasn't been implemented yet, and that we may have wasted another transfer window. Unless of course we manage to move the likes of Edun and Fraser on and replace adequately.
Leyton Orient are no mugs and I am expecting them to cause us serious problems. I was hoping by now I'd feel a bit more confident about our chances against what I expect to be a mid-table side.
I think his style is being implemented, it just isn't pretty so lots of people don't like it. That's fair enough and a few years ago I'd also have been annoyed but we've been in this league too long for me to care how it looks on the eye. If we scrape our way to promotion by ugly 1-0's all season then I will be delighted.
Orient are no mugs, you're right. I would counter that by saying we're defensively very solid from the looks of it and I think we'll limit their chances like we have done in the first two games. Hopefully Ramsay can get forward and provide some good crosses like he did at times against Wigan and our press creates chances like it did last night. If Berry scores with one of his chances last night I think we're all having a very different conversation.
I'd argue it isn't with the style. The way he is setting the team up is what we expect, but in terms of the energy and work rates, I am not seeing what he has spoke about. Of course it's early doors, but with a proper pre-season, and the time to address it, I was expecting it already. Again, I think that could be down to the players though, I don't rate a lot of this squad. I don't believe Jones is happy with the squad either and was probably expecting more.
I reckon we'll draw 1 all with Orient, hopefully that's just my pessimism though and we put out an energetic performance and stuff them.
Anyway said most of my negatives, positives, Zack Mitchell looked like a progressive centre back with a decent ceiling, Mannion looks fairly assured imo, better than Isted and AMB just from a few glimpses, Lloyd Jones looked very decent and I have no concerns with him and A.Mitchell being 2 of the 3 main stay centre backs, finally I liked the look of Berry. His shooting boots he left elsewhere, but his movement was nice and I think over the course of the season he should chip in with a few goals.9 - Sponsored links:
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I find the comment about energy and work rate interesting for sure, from my perspective I would say that's the 'big change' from last season under Nath to the first two games so far, is that application and work rate. Particularly at the back I think we look so so so much more organised and seem to have a clear idea of what areas we want to be tight in and when to trigger the press (this is not perfect yet and will take a bit of time to get absolutely right on a consistent basis).Braziliance said:
Good points re first paragraph, I am just expecting a similar outcome. Some of the signings have been good, I just think the squad was too clogged up to turn it around unless the powers that be were willing to take a financial hit, that isn't really Jones fault. The win % is still concerning regardless for me, and I hope that changes over the next ten games.fenaddick said:
Well yes and no. Most managers arrive in time to have a window to work with. Garner had one straight away, Adkins had one pretty quickly as he came in late in the season, Jacko was made permanent just before the January window. Jones came in the day after the window closed and had to scrape around a bit. That worked well for Small but not for Wickham or Lua Lua.Braziliance said:
It might sound harsh, but that is what every football manager in the world with deals with unless you're Pep. You go into a club that has made signings prior to your arrival that you now manage.fenaddick said:
Think it's hard to count last season. He was using players he didn't fancy and towards the end of the season was experimenting with a few things. His win % is going to take a hit when you consider where we were when he came in. Compare this side to the one in January and they're markedly different. We look defensively solid for the first time in years. That was clearly priority no1. It takes time for attacking players to build relationships. Admittedly, we haven't got much time on our hands but I'm confident it will be ok and we'll be in the play off mix at the very least.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..
I love his character, I love his antics, and I really like his post match interviews. I did feel the same way however about the likes of Jacko and Adkins.
I still have faith he's gonna elevate us at some point, with the right players, I'm just a bit concerned how his style hasn't been implemented yet, and that we may have wasted another transfer window. Unless of course we manage to move the likes of Edun and Fraser on and replace adequately.
Leyton Orient are no mugs and I am expecting them to cause us serious problems. I was hoping by now I'd feel a bit more confident about our chances against what I expect to be a mid-table side.
I think his style is being implemented, it just isn't pretty so lots of people don't like it. That's fair enough and a few years ago I'd also have been annoyed but we've been in this league too long for me to care how it looks on the eye. If we scrape our way to promotion by ugly 1-0's all season then I will be delighted.
Orient are no mugs, you're right. I would counter that by saying we're defensively very solid from the looks of it and I think we'll limit their chances like we have done in the first two games. Hopefully Ramsay can get forward and provide some good crosses like he did at times against Wigan and our press creates chances like it did last night. If Berry scores with one of his chances last night I think we're all having a very different conversation.
I'd argue it isn't with the style. The way he is setting the team up is what we expect, but in terms of the energy and work rates, I am not seeing what he has spoke about. Of course it's early doors, but with a proper pre-season, and the time to address it, I was expecting it already. Again, I think that could be down to the players though, I don't rate a lot of this squad. I don't believe Jones is happy with the squad either and was probably expecting more.
I reckon we'll draw 1 all with Orient, hopefully that's just my pessimism though and we put out an energetic performance and stuff them.
Anyway said most of my negatives, positives, Zack Mitchell looked like a progressive centre back with a decent ceiling, Mannion looks fairly assured imo, better than Isted and AMB just from a few glimpses, Lloyd Jones looked very decent and I have no concerns with him and A.Mitchell being 2 of the 3 main stay centre backs, finally I liked the look of Berry. His shooting boots he left elsewhere, but his movement was nice and I think over the course of the season he should chip in with a few goals.
My current concern, I believe, is similar to yours. I worry about how this side will progress the ball forward, but looking at last night and the Wigan game (two of the better ball playing sides in this division) we were clearly able to force them into mistakes, we have been round the ringer with managers who try and turn us into prime Barcelona and we just don't seem to be able to get the personnel to execute.
I think I have accepted our playstyle won't be the easiest on the eye, but for me as long as don't see those performances from last year where it looked like half our squad didn't even want to be on the pitch, then that will be progress as far as I'm concerned. Any other season in league one id back this side to go up first time of asking (properly under Jones anyway, very aware of how long we've been done here) but we are very unfortunate that this is particularly strong League One this year as it looks, hopefully some of the fancied favourites go on to have stinkers (not us hopefully!)3 -
Na, they schooled us. We held a shape but our press wasn't good, if it was, they wouldn't have had the lions share of the ball and been allowed 7 shots on target alone.Leuth said:
What on earth are you talking about, re: energy and work-rates being low. We absolutely pressed Birmingham as a pack, and if they broke the press we flooded back in recovery really quickly. They created really very little because of our press. The issue wasn't with energy or work-rate, it was with ball retention and quality of delivery, and to a certain extent the finishing of what was created by our high-energy styleBraziliance said:
Good points re first paragraph, I am just expecting a similar outcome. Some of the signings have been good, I just think the squad was too clogged up to turn it around unless the powers that be were willing to take a financial hit, that isn't really Jones fault. The win % is still concerning regardless for me, and I hope that changes over the next ten games.fenaddick said:
Well yes and no. Most managers arrive in time to have a window to work with. Garner had one straight away, Adkins had one pretty quickly as he came in late in the season, Jacko was made permanent just before the January window. Jones came in the day after the window closed and had to scrape around a bit. That worked well for Small but not for Wickham or Lua Lua.Braziliance said:
It might sound harsh, but that is what every football manager in the world with deals with unless you're Pep. You go into a club that has made signings prior to your arrival that you now manage.fenaddick said:
Think it's hard to count last season. He was using players he didn't fancy and towards the end of the season was experimenting with a few things. His win % is going to take a hit when you consider where we were when he came in. Compare this side to the one in January and they're markedly different. We look defensively solid for the first time in years. That was clearly priority no1. It takes time for attacking players to build relationships. Admittedly, we haven't got much time on our hands but I'm confident it will be ok and we'll be in the play off mix at the very least.Braziliance said:
It isn't just 2 games, I am counting the back end of last season as well. How many fresh restarts does this club need and transfer windows.sillav nitram said:
Honestly, 2 games. I think your expiations need to be tempered. Just a thought.Braziliance said:
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.oohaahmortimer said:
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dullCallumcafc said:It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing .
the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot
what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
He's come into this side with experience of getting teams (Luton) playing, he's allegedly been allowed total freedom over transfers and been given a good budget. In that time he has managed a 27% or so win rate, less than the likes of Ben Garner, Nigel Adkins and about on par with Russell Slade (due to the sheer amount of draws). We had actually sacked those 3 with similar amounts of games managed.
Of course I am not saying we should switch managers, it's just an observation that there was a lot of anger towards those 3, but there is more faith around Jones in the hope he can replicate what he did at Luton. I was definitely in that boat, however, the more I watch Charlton, the more I can't see the difference from the rest of the managers we have had in this league, particularly in terms of results.
I don't think he is in a position where questions shouldn't be asked or discussions about the teams playstyle. I really couldn't tell you any difference between this side, or the other poor league 1 sides I've watched over the last decade. We keep a good shape, and look harder to score against, that's true. We also however play 5 at the back and are sacrificing attacking options to allow that.
It's a prediction, I'll still watch every game and hope it gets better, I just think we need to spend a lot of cash, which in my head already writes off this season due to the comments about needing to shave wages before spending more..
I love his character, I love his antics, and I really like his post match interviews. I did feel the same way however about the likes of Jacko and Adkins.
I still have faith he's gonna elevate us at some point, with the right players, I'm just a bit concerned how his style hasn't been implemented yet, and that we may have wasted another transfer window. Unless of course we manage to move the likes of Edun and Fraser on and replace adequately.
Leyton Orient are no mugs and I am expecting them to cause us serious problems. I was hoping by now I'd feel a bit more confident about our chances against what I expect to be a mid-table side.
I think his style is being implemented, it just isn't pretty so lots of people don't like it. That's fair enough and a few years ago I'd also have been annoyed but we've been in this league too long for me to care how it looks on the eye. If we scrape our way to promotion by ugly 1-0's all season then I will be delighted.
Orient are no mugs, you're right. I would counter that by saying we're defensively very solid from the looks of it and I think we'll limit their chances like we have done in the first two games. Hopefully Ramsay can get forward and provide some good crosses like he did at times against Wigan and our press creates chances like it did last night. If Berry scores with one of his chances last night I think we're all having a very different conversation.
I'd argue it isn't with the style. The way he is setting the team up is what we expect, but in terms of the energy and work rates, I am not seeing what he has spoke about. Of course it's early doors, but with a proper pre-season, and the time to address it, I was expecting it already. Again, I think that could be down to the players though, I don't rate a lot of this squad. I don't believe Jones is happy with the squad either and was probably expecting more.
I reckon we'll draw 1 all with Orient, hopefully that's just my pessimism though and we put out an energetic performance and stuff them.
Anyway said most of my negatives, positives, Zack Mitchell looked like a progressive centre back with a decent ceiling, Mannion looks fairly assured imo, better than Isted and AMB just from a few glimpses, Lloyd Jones looked very decent and I have no concerns with him and A.Mitchell being 2 of the 3 main stay centre backs, finally I liked the look of Berry. His shooting boots he left elsewhere, but his movement was nice and I think over the course of the season he should chip in with a few goals.
It was a poor performance in isolation, you can think otherwise but I didn't think we looked like scoring once other than a bad penalty.
I'd say they're on a completely different level to us which is understandable considering they're a freshly relegated side and have added players to their side from the Dutch top flight and have spent millions.1 -
I walked away last night annoyed but not annoyed. It was a weird one.
I was annoyed that we're not creating enough and we're struggling up top. Aneke doesn't look like the cheat code as much since he's started jogging and stopped wanting to run. Kanu was not as effective as we know he can be. Yet I see all the negativity going to TC. Who I believe was our most attacking threat and was collecting the ball, taking on players and also challenging players to win the ball. Something we hadn't seen him do towards last season as his confidence was shattered. He's moulding in to a new position and I think it's too early to write him off for that.
I was not annoyed with us as a team defensively and the fact that we went toe to toe with the team who's meant to "run away with the league". We were the better side in the first half. Berry played well and I look forward to seeing him in the season as I'm sure he will score a few.
I don't think we need to panic. I do think we will score goals. I think Godden will fit well in to this side and help us create a few more chances. Yes it's annoying that we're already out of the cup. But it was not a bad performance.... well first half anyway.0 -
For those that love stats and firmly believe we allow people to break their bad records etc as well.
Last night was Birminghams first away win in 8 months, it was also their first win in league cup competition against a team in the same league or higher in over a decade.
I do think we are one of the easiest sides to come to in league football, nice big stadium and we don't goad players or fans like a lot of clubs do so there's a lack of sting to a lot of games. We allowed so many teams last season to do the same and break bad form etc, hope Jones can address this long term.7 -
Putting aside the first two games against decent sides where we've had to focus on staying tight at the back.
The next 3 are at home to Leyton Orient, at home to Bolton and away at Reading.
After those 3 games I think we'll have a bit more of an understanding about how we're doing and whether we do have an issue with creativity going forward.
Bolton you could throw in the Wigan bracket as a decent team but against Leyton Orient and Reading we should really be more on the front foot.2 -
I saw a more typical Charlton performance, a last season one. We play the ball out from the back, but it does not work because we do not have the players with the skill levels to do it when being pressed.
That goes from back to front.
The defenders cannot run past the player pressing them, they can only pass accurately 10yds, long balls are atrocious, but their job not made easy by the fact the midfield is static, no one capable of moving in to space, or peeling off from the player pressing them. The strikers feeding off scraps of poor passes, but when they get the ball they are muscled off it, also they need to learn to hit a barn door.
That is how I saw last nights game.7 -
Stats are great, with context. For 3 of those months they didn't play competitive football. For the 5 preceding that they were in a higher division. In fact for the last 29 years they've been in a higher division so the same league or higher thing is also misleading.Braziliance said:For those that love stats and firmly believe we allow people to break their bad records etc as well.
Last night was Birminghams first away win in 8 months, it was also their first win in league cup competition against a team in the same league or higher in over a decade.
I do think we are one of the easiest sides to come to in league football, nice big stadium and we don't goad players or fans like a lot of clubs do so there's a lack of sting to a lot of games. We allowed so many teams last season to do the same and break bad form etc, hope Jones can address this long term.
I do agree about the atmosphere thing. When a team bring 1,000+ the Jimmy Seed can get very loud and we struggle to match that a lot of the time, particularly in cup games. Good results will change that though as it should get a few more bums on seats and generally bring enthusiasm.2 -
I think at the moment we need to have faith that what we are seeing now is not necessarily the end product - our current style isn't necessarily Jones desired result but a step along the way. As things "click" then hopefully a bit more potency and fluency up front will come. Godden and Leaburn coming back will hopefully help too.
It definitely is pretty boring and basic stuff and not much fun to watch right now but I'm optimistic that we'll see improvement there.0 -
Not sure how you arrive at Bolton being in the same bracket as Wigan, I personally think Bolton are much better.SELR_addicks said:Putting aside the first two games against decent sides where we've had to focus on staying tight at the back.
The next 3 are at home to Leyton Orient, at home to Bolton and away at Reading.
After those 3 games I think we'll have a bit more of an understanding about how we're doing and whether we do have an issue with creativity going forward.
Bolton you could throw in the Wigan bracket as a decent team but against Leyton Orient and Reading we should really be more on the front foot.2 -
That is because cup games have a youth game feel among the home crowd.fenaddick said:
Stats are great, with context. For 3 of those months they didn't play competitive football. For the 5 preceding that they were in a higher division. In fact for the last 29 years they've been in a higher division so the same league or higher thing is also misleading.Braziliance said:For those that love stats and firmly believe we allow people to break their bad records etc as well.
Last night was Birminghams first away win in 8 months, it was also their first win in league cup competition against a team in the same league or higher in over a decade.
I do think we are one of the easiest sides to come to in league football, nice big stadium and we don't goad players or fans like a lot of clubs do so there's a lack of sting to a lot of games. We allowed so many teams last season to do the same and break bad form etc, hope Jones can address this long term.
I do agree about the atmosphere thing. When a team bring 1,000+ the Jimmy Seed can get very loud and we struggle to match that a lot of the time, particularly in cup games. Good results will change that though as it should get a few more bums on seats and generally bring enthusiasm.0
