First half was good, NJ is right, we should have scored 1-2 or at least. TC pen was turd but sure he will come good if needed to take another. Thought Berry wasn't great and neither was Small and Watson. Individual performances let us down.
Defensively I thought we looked good. Good foundations to build on.
Not worried about the cup tbh. Think we will come good and it will click.
It's been a positive summer of transfer activity and probably been a bit easy to forget just how bad we were last year *. We're coming off the back of our worst season in a lifetime but imo we're looking a lot more solid and like we've got a base to build on as the season progresses. It's not going to be an overnight transformation but I think we'll be challenging at the right end of the table.
* I say that as someone who put £50 on us to win the league after we signed Docherty.
Thought Birmingham were much better at playing out from the back, but they produced little around the box (which we also defended very well).
They scored from 30 yards... and we missed a pen ... we missed the easier chance and they scored a worldie. What can you do? That was the material difference.
But not saying we were unlucky, think it's clear to everyone that we are severely lacking some quality in the final third. The fact we have six strikers yet only two of them are both senior and reliably fit... We know that will cost us. Kanu & TC are nowhere near the point of their careers where they will be regularly impacting games, Leaburn is coming back from a potentially career-changing injury, Chuks is... Chuks, and that leaves a 33-year old Godden, and Mr. Gassan Ahadme - who we have spent 1 million pounds on, and for which we're yet to really see any kind of justification for that kind of money.
It also looks like we mostly don't want the ball. We look like we'd rather win it high up the pitch and try and score from there. But to counter at that kind of pace, you need quality - which we don't have. And when we have possession deeper, we can't give it back to the opposition soon enough. I sincerely hope there is a lot more to come in this department, but I sat very close to NJ today and he was not objecting to some of the hopeless balls being played tonight.
I'm not sure if we need a creative player per se, but we 100% need a lot more quality and composure.
People say it's early and you can't judge. But glaring issues are glaring issues, and they have been season after season.
I actually enjoyed the game up until the point when my frustration at our toothlessness took over. Both sides made a lot of changes and neither are the well oiled machine they are striving to be yet. Overall I thought their passing and movement was slicker and individually the quality of their players was higher. Thought we were better organised if a tad one dimensional. Thought we defended well on the whole and our high press bothered them, except on the occasions they played through it and left us exposed and looking foolish. ( That said, I loved it when their goalie shat himself and spooned it into touch, a situation we seem to be forcing at least once a game now). I started to get frustrated at the lack of composure when in shooting positions. Berry could have had a hat trick, but ballooned two pathetically and missed the target with the third. By this time I was giving him imaginary punch in the mouth. The quality of Small and Watson's crossing was absolutely fcuking appalling and wrecked some promising situations. The penalty was pathetic and what's worse we could see it coming. All of these things I am sure we can and will improve on. I am resigned to having no game changers or players to get you off the edge of your seat. We must hope that Nathan's way proves to be a winning way though, because this style could become hugely frustrating and demoralising if we are not winning
Alfie May was applauded by folks around me when he came out to warm up, when he walked to the Birmingham bench, and when he was subbed on. I heard the odd isolated boo when he came on from the odd isolated moron, but I thought he got a good enough reception. He was great for us and knowledgeable people will know that.
Should the post match thread have a delay on it, till the following morning when people have slept on it after a defeat?
Certainly the comments this morning are far less dramatic and hysterical than last night and more reflective of the reality of the game and its merits or lack of?
Another point is that Jones system needs a hold up player which we was missing for most of the game last night.
You mean like a Dobson type of player?
No like a centre forward that holds up play. Kanu and TC are not that.
Oh ok. The ball sticks to Chuks pretty well, but it seems unlikely he’ll ever play more that twenty or thirty minutes sadly.
Chuks was never quick, but he looks like he has lost whatever pace he had. Not surprising given all the injuries. He runs like Phil Chapple used to (God bless him).
That wasn’t a bad performance by Charlton as some are acting/implying. The away team Birmingham did to us what Charlton as the away team did to Wigan on Saturday. They shut up shop at the back, albeit in this case they didn’t have much choice about that because of the way we constantly pressed them; and they capitalised on a window of opportunity to to score. It happens, and will keep happening. In those circumstances the home team needs that bit extra that its fans can provide. We didn’t give it because of a typical Charlton decision to restrict food and drink. On a still warm evening getting something to eat and drink was only achievable if you joined a long, slow queue (in the covered end) which had to snake around to fit it in the space available. With the best will in the world, nobody sings and shouts much if they are dehydrating and/or hungry. We threw away the opportunity to boost the morale of of the Charlton players and intimidate the Birmingham ones. The best chants of the night were the Brummies getting onto our players by singing ‘you’re fucking shit’ if they did something that didn’t come off. We could have reciprocated on plenty of occasions but didn’t. There’s a flaw in Nathan’s gameplan if everyone off the pitch isn’t buying into it and the catering side is the fly in the ointment.
Better team overall won and they made 8 changes but we were on top either side of the penalty.
1st half our "high press" gave them problems and Berry should really have got at least one of those three shots on target.
Berry looked busy and involved early on but faded as did most of the team after the goal.
Karoy showed why he gets picked with his running and closing down while TC gave them all sorts of problems with his pace and skill. Poor penalty though he had won it.
After Brum went ahead they controlled the game and we couldn't land a punch.
Kanu was isolated but did "create" the sending off.
Docherty showed what he adds while Ramsay got forward well but too many wastefull crosses from him and Small.
Our attacking free kicks and corners were again largely poor other than one Berry corner.
City were big, strong, fast and in Roberts had the best player on the pitch.
We will face few better teams this year but we do need more from midfield going forward to create chances.
I actually thought there were so many positives to take from last nights game. We look so much better in defense in terms of organisation, take the wonder strike out and they never really troubled us. The high press will cause total havoc to most teams in the league and they will not be able to deal with it. As others have said we did look toothless in attack but hopefully that will improve as players come back from injury, that isnt knocking Kanu & TC as they worked their socks off. The only thing I just cant see what NJ is trying is Anderson, he is just so wasteful with the ball and so far has added very little to the games, he has talent Im sure but Im not sure he should be starting ahead of some of the other players on the bench
I obviously left the Valley last night more positive than a good few on here. I think we met the strongest squad in the league last night and only conceded a worldie against them. Do we need work in our final third? 100% but compared to how soft we’ve been in recent years I think we’ll win a hell of a lot more than we’ll lose this season. A few more pieces of quality added should see us to a rewarding season.
Genuinely optimistic about this season. Feels Curbs like - very hard to score against, disciplined, hard working and some chances being created, albeit shooting off so far. We will absolutely thump some sides this season, while I am expecting the games against sides with same/above our clout being given a run for their money in tighter affairs. Hope I am not misreading.
Genuinely believe we need to let Fraser, Edun, Ness and possibly Watson go asap mind and strengthen with a few. We will be held back a bit otherwise. Myles looked in prime condition last night, stronger than ever. That also gives me further optimism.
I agree with the people who felt more optimism than anything else. For the past few seasons, especially last season, we've watched teams absolutely walk through the middle of us and pepper the goal with shots. Dobson bless him was a good tackler but a terrible shield and our defenders could be so easily got round, so easily bullied and so easily terrified into making a mistake. Yesterday when we did give the ball away or have an attack break down someone was there to launch into one of their players and we won some very hard challenges fairly. We didn't look like a soft touch and Coventry's positioning and comfort on the ball in front of the defence was good to see. In terms of creating further forward that will take some time to click, and hopefully it will, but if it doesn't then we'll need to make changes to the approach but it's easier to do that when the base you're working from is solid. We learned last season that's it's not much good having a 20 goal a season striker if you concede more than you score, I think developing a smoother attacking setup on top of a really strong defence is a better way to get through a season successfully.
PWR Thinking back at the end of 90 mins, given the superior possession they had and how much more comfortably they dealt with pressing I was pleased we'd only conceded 1 goal......... during the game I was worried they'd score 1 or 2 more than they did. Albeit early season, Brum were well drilled, pressed and ran well on and off the ball and from that one look they seem to generally a better quality squad than us. What a lovely change from last season. we are so much better drilled, running and pressing as a unit (not perfectly but better) and from what I could see on Sky the guys were communicating with and encouraging each other so much better than a lot of last year. I think we rode our luck at times when defending but I'm liking how much harder we are to score against and I don't think we missed Dobson. We could have, should have, scored 1 or 2........ especially the penalty of course (woeful)........ but we made chances even though they weren't stone cold certs. I wish we could play the ball into our strikers in such a way that they can get and hold onto the ball........ why is it they can't do that? Is it physical, experiential, technical, innate ability......... can't the canteen give them a few spoonfuls of that on training days. We're not that great winning and flicking on long balls either. I thought Anderson came into the game in a more meaningful way towards the end but I'm hoping we can bring in one more quality forward-playing midfielder......... Brum had a couple of good ones didn't they. Up front I hope we don't have to rely too heavily on TC and DK too much this season, I don't think they're quite ready to give the impact we need on a regular and consistent 60+ minute per game basis........ I think they need more league games under their belts...... but I'd love to be wrong! The earlier we can get a couple more out and in the revolving door the better.
Disappointing to lose, but this is by no means a reason to throw any/all of the toys out of the pram.
As NJ said post-match, they are supposedly the best team in our league, have spent big and came down from the Championship. A "fair" result might have been a draw and penalty lottery, but in the grand scheme of things, they scored a screamer and we missed a pen when we were looking positive. It is what it is. NJ sent a team out to both improve fitness and reasonably compete in the game, and we didn't get embarrassed at all. All this context is important.
I don't disagree that, in the second half in particular, we didn't look very at it and looked pretty tame going forward. Plenty of these players played the 90+ on Saturday, tonight and will need to do the majority of Saturday too - levels may drop a little bit at this early stage of the season for a game that most players know is a bit of a free hit without real consequence. Tactically, 3 at the back feels like it leaves us a little light in midfield if the WBs are not on it from an attacking sense - Small looked very poor and Watson is naturally very defensive. 3 at the back can turn into 5 and it means that we look lacklustre going forward. I expect Ramsay and Edwards to potentially improve this against Orient on Saturday, giving us more balance. I remember back to listening to Charlton Live last season when Derby were in automatics and their fans on the pod were unhappy at the tactics/style of play. I will 100% take scrappy 1-0 wins all season in the league and getting dumped out of every cup if it means playoffs or more. I don't mind it being unattractive for the sake of league results.
Aside from that, I will continue to support and fly the flag for our youngsters. Tame pen from TC, but he'll learn from that - and was starting to look more threatening just prior to that. Kanu was trying, but didn't carry much threat. Anderson did his press thing, but still needs to be more threatening with the ball. These are still young, young players learning their craft and doing it live. Not a fan of people giving them stick on game 2 of the season, particularly against two of the better sides/defenders we will come up against. Birmingham could bring on both May and Bielik, and we know the quality of both.
Not worried and believe that this squad will begin to gel in time. Several strikers are out and will add quality when they return, albeit almost certainly not at the level May did. Transfer business could still add the missing piece of quality that NJ mentioned.
I actually thought there were so many positives to take from last nights game. We look so much better in defense in terms of organisation, take the wonder strike out and they never really troubled us. The high press will cause total havoc to most teams in the league and they will not be able to deal with it. As others have said we did look toothless in attack but hopefully that will improve as players come back from injury, that isnt knocking Kanu & TC as they worked their socks off. The only thing I just cant see what NJ is trying is Anderson, he is just so wasteful with the ball and so far has added very little to the games, he has talent Im sure but Im not sure he should be starting ahead of some of the other players on the bench
TBF, Birmingham were largely restricted to shooting from distance and that chap who was the highest goal scorer in the EFL last season didn’t get much of a look in so our attack wasn’t that bad in comparison
A lot of talk about where the goal threat will come from. I think we showed in the first 30 mins that we do have the ability to create chances, Small actually started the game very well on the attacking foot and so did TC. Berry had 3 or 4 half chances and we obviously missed a penalty. Although we didn't see it against Wigan, with Ramsay on the right over Watson, I think we also see a good chunk of chances coming down that side - which didn't happen yesterday and I felt that was part of the reason Kanu just wasn't in the game.
Kanu and TC are probably our 4th and 5th choice strikers so hopefully when the rest are fit more goals will come. I would love to see us bring in another number 10 but if not Berry should be able to play that role well when match sharp.
Whilst, I don't think we can keep that first 30 mins intensity the whole game, if we play like that through periods of games and defend like we have been doing, we should hopefully be ok.
People need to remember we came 16th last season. Top 6 in a now stronger division is a huge leap. We aren't going to win every game, especially against a team that has spent over £15m on players. Their left winger yesterday had a really good season in the eredivise last year and whislt he looked like real quality I felt overall we dealt with him well. Lets see how the Orient game goes.
Coventry I thought had a good game. Receiving the ball, turning it over, moving us forward. I think he is starting to grow in stature I don't like comparing him with Dobbo, different players with for the most part different roles. Dobbo was more of a firefighter, though he did have much more tan that in his locker. I'll judge Coventry on his merits, not in comparison to Dobbo. Didn't do player marks, but I'd score Coventry a 7 or 8 for last night
I think its time to start Aneke in such matches, as we now have five fit strikers (Godden has a cut so likely to start vs Orient) plus Miles and KD to come in. If he breaks down, sobeit.
I think its time to start Aneke in such matches, as we now have five fit strikers (Godden has a cut so likely to start vs Orient) plus Miles and KD to come in. If he breaks down, sobeit.
People who see that game and award Coventry 4 in Player Marks because Dobbo would of made us won will be the fucking death of me
I thought Coventry probably had his best game so far for us last night and is fitting into that gameplan nicely. He’s the Cullen replacement, not the Dobbo one.
It makes me wonder… Did people not realise this is the kind of football we were likely getting with Jones?
I’m sure people had a clue just didn’t realise it would be sooooo dull people can take any crap whilst winning but not so easy when losing . the big glaring issue is so far there’s limited skill and creativity on show , a load of athletes running around a lot what happened to this magical Jones formula when he ballsed it up at Stoke and Soton
This is how I feel. I had an exact idea on how Jones would set us up. 5 at the back, two strikers and a hard working midfield. I also however have a lot of expectations, and based on the back end of last season, and the start of this one, including pre-season, it hasn't been met.
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
Comments
Defensively I thought we looked good. Good foundations to build on.
Not worried about the cup tbh. Think we will come good and it will click.
* I say that as someone who put £50 on us to win the league after we signed Docherty.
Both sides made a lot of changes and neither are the well oiled machine they are striving to be yet.
Overall I thought their passing and movement was slicker and individually the quality of their players was higher.
Thought we were better organised if a tad one dimensional.
Thought we defended well on the whole and our high press bothered them, except on the occasions they played through it and left us exposed and looking foolish.
( That said, I loved it when their goalie shat himself and spooned it into touch, a situation we seem to be forcing at least once a game now).
I started to get frustrated at the lack of composure when in shooting positions.
Berry could have had a hat trick, but ballooned two pathetically and missed the target with the third.
By this time I was giving him imaginary punch in the mouth.
The quality of Small and Watson's crossing was absolutely fcuking appalling and wrecked some promising situations.
The penalty was pathetic and what's worse we could see it coming.
All of these things I am sure we can and will improve on.
I am resigned to having no game changers or players to get you off the edge of your seat.
We must hope that Nathan's way proves to be a winning way though, because this style could become hugely frustrating and demoralising if we are not winning
I heard the odd isolated boo when he came on from the odd isolated moron, but I thought he got a good enough reception.
He was great for us and knowledgeable people will know that.
I always thought he played his 20 or 30 minutes well, actually...🙄
Certainly the comments this morning are far less dramatic and hysterical than last night and more reflective of the reality of the game and its merits or lack of?
1st half our "high press" gave them problems and Berry should really have got at least one of those three shots on target.
Berry looked busy and involved early on but faded as did most of the team after the goal.
Karoy showed why he gets picked with his running and closing down while TC gave them all sorts of problems with his pace and skill. Poor penalty though he had won it.
After Brum went ahead they controlled the game and we couldn't land a punch.
Kanu was isolated but did "create" the sending off.
Docherty showed what he adds while Ramsay got forward well but too many wastefull crosses from him and Small.
Our attacking free kicks and corners were again largely poor other than one Berry corner.
City were big, strong, fast and in Roberts had the best player on the pitch.
We will face few better teams this year but we do need more from midfield going forward to create chances.
Genuinely believe we need to let Fraser, Edun, Ness and possibly Watson go asap mind and strengthen with a few. We will be held back a bit otherwise. Myles looked in prime condition last night, stronger than ever. That also gives me further optimism.
Albeit early season, Brum were well drilled, pressed and ran well on and off the ball and from that one look they seem to generally a better quality squad than us.
What a lovely change from last season. we are so much better drilled, running and pressing as a unit (not perfectly but better) and from what I could see on Sky the guys were communicating with and encouraging each other so much better than a lot of last year.
I think we rode our luck at times when defending but I'm liking how much harder we are to score against and I don't think we missed Dobson.
We could have, should have, scored 1 or 2........ especially the penalty of course (woeful)........ but we made chances even though they weren't stone cold certs.
I wish we could play the ball into our strikers in such a way that they can get and hold onto the ball........ why is it they can't do that? Is it physical, experiential, technical, innate ability......... can't the canteen give them a few spoonfuls of that on training days. We're not that great winning and flicking on long balls either.
I thought Anderson came into the game in a more meaningful way towards the end but I'm hoping we can bring in one more quality forward-playing midfielder......... Brum had a couple of good ones didn't they.
Up front I hope we don't have to rely too heavily on TC and DK too much this season, I don't think they're quite ready to give the impact we need on a regular and consistent 60+ minute per game basis........ I think they need more league games under their belts...... but I'd love to be wrong!
The earlier we can get a couple more out and in the revolving door the better.
As NJ said post-match, they are supposedly the best team in our league, have spent big and came down from the Championship. A "fair" result might have been a draw and penalty lottery, but in the grand scheme of things, they scored a screamer and we missed a pen when we were looking positive. It is what it is. NJ sent a team out to both improve fitness and reasonably compete in the game, and we didn't get embarrassed at all. All this context is important.
I don't disagree that, in the second half in particular, we didn't look very at it and looked pretty tame going forward. Plenty of these players played the 90+ on Saturday, tonight and will need to do the majority of Saturday too - levels may drop a little bit at this early stage of the season for a game that most players know is a bit of a free hit without real consequence. Tactically, 3 at the back feels like it leaves us a little light in midfield if the WBs are not on it from an attacking sense - Small looked very poor and Watson is naturally very defensive. 3 at the back can turn into 5 and it means that we look lacklustre going forward. I expect Ramsay and Edwards to potentially improve this against Orient on Saturday, giving us more balance. I remember back to listening to Charlton Live last season when Derby were in automatics and their fans on the pod were unhappy at the tactics/style of play. I will 100% take scrappy 1-0 wins all season in the league and getting dumped out of every cup if it means playoffs or more. I don't mind it being unattractive for the sake of league results.
Aside from that, I will continue to support and fly the flag for our youngsters. Tame pen from TC, but he'll learn from that - and was starting to look more threatening just prior to that. Kanu was trying, but didn't carry much threat. Anderson did his press thing, but still needs to be more threatening with the ball. These are still young, young players learning their craft and doing it live. Not a fan of people giving them stick on game 2 of the season, particularly against two of the better sides/defenders we will come up against. Birmingham could bring on both May and Bielik, and we know the quality of both.
Not worried and believe that this squad will begin to gel in time. Several strikers are out and will add quality when they return, albeit almost certainly not at the level May did. Transfer business could still add the missing piece of quality that NJ mentioned.
Kanu and TC are probably our 4th and 5th choice strikers so hopefully when the rest are fit more goals will come. I would love to see us bring in another number 10 but if not Berry should be able to play that role well when match sharp.
Whilst, I don't think we can keep that first 30 mins intensity the whole game, if we play like that through periods of games and defend like we have been doing, we should hopefully be ok.
People need to remember we came 16th last season. Top 6 in a now stronger division is a huge leap. We aren't going to win every game, especially against a team that has spent over £15m on players. Their left winger yesterday had a really good season in the eredivise last year and whislt he looked like real quality I felt overall we dealt with him well. Lets see how the Orient game goes.
I think he is starting to grow in stature
I don't like comparing him with Dobbo, different players with for the most part different roles.
Dobbo was more of a firefighter, though he did have much more tan that in his locker.
I'll judge Coventry on his merits, not in comparison to Dobbo.
Didn't do player marks, but I'd score Coventry a 7 or 8 for last night
Yeah his shot was cack but any long range effort we had seemed to balloon! Minus Campbells curled effort which was unlucky.
What I was expecting to see, was a well drilled side, who close the ball down quick, run with intensity for the majority of the game, and when we get the ball, move it quick and get ourselves into scoring positions, and take advantage of it.
Instead, we hold a defensive shape, close down fairly slow, and when we do get the ball, the players are either woeful at shooting, crossing or beating their man, take your pick.
I don't mind the style at all, if we have the right players who can create the moments when we have the chance, the big problem is, none of them look good enough on the ball to make it happen, and that was evident again in our poor shooting and crossing yesterday.
It might sound harsh, but I am of the opinion that the likes of TC, Anderson and Kanu should have been loaned out, rather than being mainstays of our first team. I don't particularly think any of them are ready yet. We are also still stuck with a bit of dross on our books we will really struggle to shift.
Again early doors, but my gut instinct is that 20 minute joke of a power point presentation, was a complete waste of ours and their time. '8 players that anyone would want in this league and would be able to play championship football'? Have a word 😂
I'm sure the little shrimp will get over it
There were a bunch of kids in front of me who booed him when he came on, and then begged for his autograph when he walked off.