I’m sure I read that he played up front for a previous club. I wonder if Jones will try him in any other positions to allow us to play both him & Edwards.
Games like the league & pizza cup maybe ideal opportunities to see.
Being a pessimist I wonder if Small could be sold before the window
having been our best player for most of Jones’ tenure , it seems odd that he’s not playing . I suspect he’s said he won’t sign the longer deal and that he will be sold if a good offer comes in .
Yesterday’s performance and result will start to make more players available to Charlton. A couple more like it and Nathan should find it a lot easier to get deals done.
Don't think Small is going anywhere, it's just about match ups. Edwards is better defensively which is important away from home to a team who have traditionally been great down the flanks. Small appears to be better going forward than Edwards so we'll see him for games where we're more on the front foot.
I am reliably informed we are "paying proper wages" and that a variety of other L1 players/other L1 teams think we will be right up there this season. Hopefully we can add the finishing touches accordingly.
Don't think Small is going anywhere, it's just about match ups. Edwards is better defensively which is important away from home to a team who have traditionally been great down the flanks. Small appears to be better going forward than Edwards so we'll see him for games where we're more on the front foot.
Exactly my thoughts. Despite Edwards playing well yesterday I wouldn't be surprised at all if Small starts against Orient on Saturday.
Don't think Small is going anywhere, it's just about match ups. Edwards is better defensively which is important away from home to a team who have traditionally been great down the flanks. Small appears to be better going forward than Edwards so we'll see him for games where we're more on the front foot.
Exactly my thoughts. Despite Edwards playing well yesterday I wouldn't be surprised at all if Small starts against Orient on Saturday.
I expect to see him on Tuesday in the cup too, doesn't fully back up what I said above but think we'll see a lot of changes from Saturday
I’ve said all along we need a creative midfielder who acts as the focus for our play and gets us moving forward but as the window progresses the more I think Jones doesn’t think likewise. I don’t think we’ll be getting a number 10. I have a feeling we might see Potts sign and that’ll be it. Massive responsibility for Berry when he’s selected and I’m not too sure he fits that playmaker role despite his obvious pedigree.
I don't know when it is that people started becoming obsessed with a '10' but we don't play with one. The creativity will come in the high press, catching teams with our team still high up on the pitch and playing that pass out wide to an advancing wingback or forcing a mistake from defenders who are being harried to death by lunatics. Jones used to use Shinnie to do a lot of the pass before the pass work that led to goals and he was a deeper midfielder. In Coventry, Docherty and Berry we've got players who are good enough on the ball to play the right sort of passes, it's all about the work they put in to create those opportunities. If you'd like what traditionally would be called a creative 10 then cast your mind back to Fraser, Jack Payne, Fiorini, Alex Gilbey and other soft lads we've had who couldn't press an olive, then weep.
Being a pessimist I wonder if Small could be sold before the window
having been our best player for most of Jones’ tenure , it seems odd that he’s not playing . I suspect he’s said he won’t sign the longer deal and that he will be sold if a good offer comes in .
Or jones decided to pick the better defender to tighten things up at the back away from home.
its very much a squad game these days and jones likes to shuffle the pack.
small will still get plenty of game time this season.
Being a pessimist I wonder if Small could be sold before the window
having been our best player for most of Jones’ tenure , it seems odd that he’s not playing . I suspect he’s said he won’t sign the longer deal and that he will be sold if a good offer comes in .
Or jones decided to pick the better defender to tighten things up at the back away from home.
its very much a squad game these days and jones likes to shuffle the pack.
small will still get plenty of game time this season.
Small was one of the few bright points of last season. Hasn’t signed a new deal and if he isn’t getting plenty of game time probably won’t. Awkward for Jones and the club because I think Small is worth money and I suspect we’re going to miss out on that.
Being a pessimist I wonder if Small could be sold before the window
having been our best player for most of Jones’ tenure , it seems odd that he’s not playing . I suspect he’s said he won’t sign the longer deal and that he will be sold if a good offer comes in .
Or jones decided to pick the better defender to tighten things up at the back away from home.
its very much a squad game these days and jones likes to shuffle the pack.
small will still get plenty of game time this season.
Small was one of the few bright points of last season. Hasn’t signed a new deal and if he isn’t getting plenty of game time probably won’t. Awkward for Jones and the club because I think Small is worth money and I suspect we’re going to miss out on that.
If he can’t get into a l1 team, who will sign him? The clubs supposedly watching him last season will move on to different targets
Don't think Small is going anywhere, it's just about match ups. Edwards is better defensively which is important away from home to a team who have traditionally been great down the flanks. Small appears to be better going forward than Edwards so we'll see him for games where we're more on the front foot.
Exactly my thoughts. Despite Edwards playing well yesterday I wouldn't be surprised at all if Small starts against Orient on Saturday.
I really can't see the MOTM being left out of the next league game.
Small will play on Tuesday, indeed I imagine Jones will effectively use it as a preseason game to give the squad players minutes.
Small was excellent last season and should be part of NJ's plans for this season. He's quick and can pick a pass. Play him in front of Edwards might be an option in games we want to attack from the off? I would be gutted if he was sold.
I don't know when it is that people started becoming obsessed with a '10' but we don't play with one. The creativity will come in the high press, catching teams with our team still high up on the pitch and playing that pass out wide to an advancing wingback or forcing a mistake from defenders who are being harried to death by lunatics. Jones used to use Shinnie to do a lot of the pass before the pass work that led to goals and he was a deeper midfielder. In Coventry, Docherty and Berry we've got players who are good enough on the ball to play the right sort of passes, it's all about the work they put in to create those opportunities. If you'd like what traditionally would be called a creative 10 then cast your mind back to Fraser, Jack Payne, Fiorini, Alex Gilbey and other soft lads we've had who couldn't press an olive, then weep.
Problem is we don’t have the ability to change things up. Change personnel definitely but there will be games, particularly at The Valley when teams do to us what we did to Wigan yesterday. What then ? Jones I think has a plan and it’s his plan and if you don’t like it then jog on. Just my opinion but being one dimensional is short sighted.
The talk of Small not signing a longer contract because of lack of game time is a strange one, and sounds like there will only be one winner in this contest, and it ain't Small. Jones comes across as someone who knows what he wants, and has offered Small the chance of being part of the plan, which he seems reluctant to accept, and clearly Jones prefers Edwards as first choice. So, it could well see Small moving on if he won't commit, we can't have the tail wagging the dog here, game time is not a given for anyone, much as I love Small and the way he plays,...either sign up or ship out...
Being a pessimist I wonder if Small could be sold before the window
having been our best player for most of Jones’ tenure , it seems odd that he’s not playing . I suspect he’s said he won’t sign the longer deal and that he will be sold if a good offer comes in .
Or jones decided to pick the better defender to tighten things up at the back away from home.
its very much a squad game these days and jones likes to shuffle the pack.
small will still get plenty of game time this season.
Small was one of the few bright points of last season. Hasn’t signed a new deal and if he isn’t getting plenty of game time probably won’t. Awkward for Jones and the club because I think Small is worth money and I suspect we’re going to miss out on that.
I think it's more complex for Small than that and if Edwards becomes undroppable then Small is in a bit of a pickle. He's worth money if he continues his rehabilitation of his reputation. We signed him for free on a 6 month deal because that's how low his stock was. He got a bad reputation at Everton, played 4 games for Port Vale and wasn't wanted, did well in his half season at St Mirren before having a disaster the following one and then did well for us after having his contract cancelled by Saints. He's played 14 games for us, he needs to do a lot more before teams start properly looking at him as a player with potential again. If he has half a good season for us and then gets dropped for another player because he won't sign a new deal then he's not going to have a lot of interested suitors because it sounds like more of the same again with him. I do think he'll play a lot this season, and I think that if Edwards hadn't been the best player on the pitch yesterday we would have seen Small come on and press very high like Tennai did, we just flipped it round because Edwards couldn't be taken off, but the more we opt for Edwards over Small and the more he hesitates about committing the fewer his choices will be in July when he's a free player.
I’m not convinced Small is as automatic a pick for home games as some are believing. I think he starts midweek and Edwards gets the shirt against Orient.
There’s already an opinion floating around as fact that he’s better as an attack minded player than Edwards. Edwards got 9 assists and 4 goals himself last season - Small got one goal (that weird one at Bolton) and one assist where he squared the ball off to May at Cheltenham. Small played less games obviously but it doesn’t scream potent attacking wing back does it?
Surely we’re not attaching ourselves to a quite good player just because they shone in an overall crap team around them again?
I think at this point it’s very much trust in Nathan Jones. Watching that yesterday, he knows exactly what he’s doing. Haven’t said that about a manager in ages.
I don't know when it is that people started becoming obsessed with a '10' but we don't play with one. The creativity will come in the high press, catching teams with our team still high up on the pitch and playing that pass out wide to an advancing wingback or forcing a mistake from defenders who are being harried to death by lunatics. Jones used to use Shinnie to do a lot of the pass before the pass work that led to goals and he was a deeper midfielder. In Coventry, Docherty and Berry we've got players who are good enough on the ball to play the right sort of passes, it's all about the work they put in to create those opportunities. If you'd like what traditionally would be called a creative 10 then cast your mind back to Fraser, Jack Payne, Fiorini, Alex Gilbey and other soft lads we've had who couldn't press an olive, then weep.
Problem is we don’t have the ability to change things up. Change personnel definitely but there will be games, particularly at The Valley when teams do to us what we did to Wigan yesterday. What then ? Jones I think has a plan and it’s his plan and if you don’t like it then jog on. Just my opinion but being one dimensional is short sighted.
I think his style is non-negotiable in terms of the pressing and effort required but the shape is less rigid. He'd much rather play a 442 diamond I reckon but he was burned by trying that last season. We saw with LuaLua that he likes to bring on players with pace and play them in asymmetrical positions if we need to change things and that's what Campbell and Dixon will generally be for. We've also got the ability to ask very different questions of our wingbacks as we saw with Tennai yesterday, he basically played as a right winger to throw off Wigan and it led to our goal. Berry is also a different option in the middle and we've already seen that we're using Docherty to press on past the striker at the moment instead of asking Karoy to do his harrying very high all the time. I think there's lots to change within the current structure, a creative central midfielder would be nice as well if we can shift Edun but we're not stuck in our one way of approaching teams with what we have now
If you look at Jones managerial history. He would often change starting lineups and even occasionally formations. If you ask Southampton fans, they would tell you he tinkered too much and the lack of consistency hurt them. Don’t be surprised if at various times, the likes of Small, Berry and Kanu are starting depending on who is in form in training, the opposition, home vs away etc
Being a pessimist I wonder if Small could be sold before the window
having been our best player for most of Jones’ tenure , it seems odd that he’s not playing . I suspect he’s said he won’t sign the longer deal and that he will be sold if a good offer comes in .
Or jones decided to pick the better defender to tighten things up at the back away from home.
its very much a squad game these days and jones likes to shuffle the pack.
small will still get plenty of game time this season.
Small was one of the few bright points of last season. Hasn’t signed a new deal and if he isn’t getting plenty of game time probably won’t. Awkward for Jones and the club because I think Small is worth money and I suspect we’re going to miss out on that.
I think it's more complex for Small than that and if Edwards becomes undroppable then Small is in a bit of a pickle. He's worth money if he continues his rehabilitation of his reputation. We signed him for free on a 6 month deal because that's how low his stock was. He got a bad reputation at Everton, played 4 games for Port Vale and wasn't wanted, did well in his half season at St Mirren before having a disaster the following one and then did well for us after having his contract cancelled by Saints. He's played 14 games for us, he needs to do a lot more before teams start properly looking at him as a player with potential again. If he has half a good season for us and then gets dropped for another player because he won't sign a new deal then he's not going to have a lot of interested suitors because it sounds like more of the same again with him. I do think he'll play a lot this season, and I think that if Edwards hadn't been the best player on the pitch yesterday we would have seen Small come on and press very high like Tennai did, we just flipped it round because Edwards couldn't be taken off, but the more we opt for Edwards over Small and the more he hesitates about committing the fewer his choices will be in July when he's a free player.
Pretty sure he didn’t fail at Everton. Ancelotti tried to sign him for Real Madrid. He walked away from Everton despite a massive contract offer, according to the Liverpool Echo where they interviewed David Unsworth. Southampton just didn’t work out while Port Vale tried him up front. I think we are reading too much into the contract situation, and NJ just prefers Edwards currently. It will all come out in the wash I guess. I’d hate him to leave right now.
Don't think Small is going anywhere, it's just about match ups. Edwards is better defensively which is important away from home to a team who have traditionally been great down the flanks. Small appears to be better going forward than Edwards so we'll see him for games where we're more on the front foot.
Exactly my thoughts. Despite Edwards playing well yesterday I wouldn't be surprised at all if Small starts against Orient on Saturday.
I’m not convinced Small is as automatic a pick for home games as some are believing. I think he starts midweek and Edwards gets the shirt against Orient.
There’s already an opinion floating around as fact that he’s better as an attack minded player than Edwards. Edwards got 9 assists and 4 goals himself last season - Small got one goal (that weird one at Bolton) and one assist where he squared the ball off to May at Cheltenham. Small played less games obviously but it doesn’t scream potent attacking wing back does it?
Surely we’re not attaching ourselves to a quite good player just because they shone in an overall crap team around them again?
I’m delighted Edwards did so well yesterday but I think looking at Scottish Championship stats is probably pointless . Even 7/10 Ben played in the SPL
Don't think Small is going anywhere, it's just about match ups. Edwards is better defensively which is important away from home to a team who have traditionally been great down the flanks. Small appears to be better going forward than Edwards so we'll see him for games where we're more on the front foot.
Exactly my thoughts. Despite Edwards playing well yesterday I wouldn't be surprised at all if Small starts against Orient on Saturday.
Edwards will not be dropped after yesterday.
I didn't say I think it will happen, should happen, or expect it to. I just don't think people should be surprised if it does.
I’m not convinced Small is as automatic a pick for home games as some are believing. I think he starts midweek and Edwards gets the shirt against Orient.
There’s already an opinion floating around as fact that he’s better as an attack minded player than Edwards. Edwards got 9 assists and 4 goals himself last season - Small got one goal (that weird one at Bolton) and one assist where he squared the ball off to May at Cheltenham. Small played less games obviously but it doesn’t scream potent attacking wing back does it?
Surely we’re not attaching ourselves to a quite good player just because they shone in an overall crap team around them again?
I’m delighted Edwards did so well yesterday but I think looking at Scottish Championship stats is probably pointless . Even 7/10 Ben played in the SPL
Take your point that he’s in a different league now but disagree that the league he came from is an indicator of how good, or not, he is.
Jamie Vardy came from non-league & Djimi Traore is a Champions League winner.
Comments
Games like the league & pizza cup maybe ideal opportunities to see.
its very much a squad game these days and jones likes to shuffle the pack.
small will still get plenty of game time this season.
Small will play on Tuesday, indeed I imagine Jones will effectively use it as a preseason game to give the squad players minutes.
Jones comes across as someone who knows what he wants, and has offered Small the chance of being part of the plan, which he seems reluctant to accept, and clearly Jones prefers Edwards as first choice.
So, it could well see Small moving on if he won't commit, we can't have the tail wagging the dog here, game time is not a given for anyone, much as I love Small and the way he plays,...either sign up or ship out...
There’s already an opinion floating around as fact that he’s better as an attack minded player than Edwards. Edwards got 9 assists and 4 goals himself last season - Small got one goal (that weird one at Bolton) and one assist where he squared the ball off to May at Cheltenham. Small played less games obviously but it doesn’t scream potent attacking wing back does it?
Surely we’re not attaching ourselves to a quite good player just because they shone in an overall crap team around them again?
Watching that yesterday, he knows exactly what he’s doing. Haven’t said that about a manager in ages.
He walked away from Everton despite a massive contract offer, according to the Liverpool Echo where they interviewed David Unsworth.
Southampton just didn’t work out while Port Vale tried him up front.
I think we are reading too much into the contract situation, and NJ just prefers Edwards currently.
It will all come out in the wash I guess.
I’d hate him to leave right now.
Jamie Vardy came from non-league & Djimi Traore is a Champions League winner.