Stat I have is that he has played 75 games (no idea how many minutes/sub on/off in five seasons.
Why, if he is a ball-winning midfielder with good distribution?
For most of that time he was a young player developing and proving himself. All four of his loans were half season loans and he moved to us halfway through the season too, so he's never had the chance to play 35/40+ games a season for one club.
I really rate Coventry, he isn't going to make gut busting runs and be sliding everywhere, but think he has all of the tools to play the Cullen role. Think we will see the best of him having a full pre-season under Jones, having ramsay and small either side of an engertic midfield
Don't doubt your take just hope we can all agree there will be no more excuses for Coventry next season and its time he lives up to his billing.
Stat I have is that he has played 75 games (no idea how many minutes/sub on/off in five seasons.
Why, if he is a ball-winning midfielder with good distribution?
I can't be arsed with trawling all the way back through the posts about it, if you want to know that badly go look it up yourself or find it within my previous posts. I get bored just typing out half my own comments, I don't want to go back a re-read all of them just to provide evidence that's already readily available to someone with half a brain, Google and 2 minutes to spare
67 EFL appearances in the last three seasons for Conor Coventry. Across the same timeframe, he’s only missed / not been picked for 12 games & eight of those were with Championship clubs.
Charlton (L1 23/24): - played in 17 of 21 fixtures
Rotherham (Championship 22/23): - played in 16 of 18 fixtures
MK Dons (L1 21/22): - played in 22 of 22 fixtures
Peterborough (Championship 21/22): - played in 12 of 18 fixtures
It's different for goalkeepers though. If you sign an aging midfielder then there's a strong chance his legs are going/have gone, but that doesn't matter for a keeper as many play well into their late 30s and some even into their early 40s.
He played 46 times for QPR last season so i'd say he's more than capable of playing in league one.
All we need to look at is whether he'd be an improvement on what we have and i think the answer to that has to be a firm yes.
It's different for goalkeepers though. If you sign an aging midfielder then there's a strong chance his legs are going/have gone, but that doesn't matter for a keeper as many play well into their late 30s and some even into their early 40s.
He played 46 times for QPR last season so i'd say he's more than capable of playing in league one.
All we need to look at is whether he'd be an improvement on what we have and i think the answer to that has to be a firm yes.
Slightly oversimplified. The next goal keeper needs to be better, yes, but at a price that is proportionate to the improvement and not at the expense of spending for better outcomes elsewhere on the pitch.
If there is one point that seems to be overlooked, it’s the theory that the best teams are often where the team as a whole exceeds the sum of the parts. Yes, we know Man City get the best ‘parts’, but in League One, teams have to function well. NJ seems to have a plan. Whether the shake-up and new ‘parts’ will bring success is hard to judge. However, for the first time since Curbs’ and Powell’s teams, I do feel there is an attempt to build a team. I’m not sure 24-25 will be our big season but if we can put 10 years of mediocrity behind us and succeed in 25-26, that will be a very good turnaround for any business, let alone a poorly-run football club.
Why all this guff about tackling? I've posted this many times before but Paolo Maldini, deemed to be one of the world's best ever defenders made an average of 19 tackles. That's not per game but per season! Over a 25-year career. That's an average of half a tackle per match. He is quoted as saying "If I have to make a tackle then I have already made a mistake."
I think that applies just as much to midfielders as defenders. What we should be striving for is not a player that runs all over the pitch getting booked every game but a player that knows and keeps to his position, reads the game, remains calm and in control. I have no idea if Coventry is that player. I guess we will find out this season.
Why all this guff about tackling? I've posted this many times before but Paolo Maldini, deemed to be one of the world's best ever defenders made an average of 19 tackles. That's not per game but per season! Over a 25-year career. That's an average of half a tackle per match. He is quoted as saying "If I have to make a tackle then I have already made a mistake."
I think that applies just as much to midfielders as defenders. What we should be striving for is not a player that runs all over the pitch getting booked every game but a player that knows and keeps to his position, reads the game, remains calm and in control. I have no idea if Coventry is that player. I guess we will find out this season.
Im aware of Paolo Maldini, I have seen Paolo Maldini, Conor Coventry is no Paolo Maldini.
If there is one point that seems to be overlooked, it’s the theory that the best teams are often where the team as a whole exceeds the sum of the parts. Yes, we know Man City get the best ‘parts’, but in League One, teams have to function well. NJ seems to have a plan. Whether the shake-up and new ‘parts’ will bring success is hard to judge. However, for the first time since Curbs’ and Powell’s teams, I do feel there is an attempt to build a team. I’m not sure 24-25 will be our big season but if we can put 10 years of mediocrity behind us and succeed in 25-26, that will be a very good turnaround for any business, let alone a poorly-run football club.
Agree. Norwich in the mid to late 80's and early 90's definitely fell under this banner.
Why all this guff about tackling? I've posted this many times before but Paolo Maldini, deemed to be one of the world's best ever defenders made an average of 19 tackles. That's not per game but per season! Over a 25-year career. That's an average of half a tackle per match. He is quoted as saying "If I have to make a tackle then I have already made a mistake."
I think that applies just as much to midfielders as defenders. What we should be striving for is not a player that runs all over the pitch getting booked every game but a player that knows and keeps to his position, reads the game, remains calm and in control. I have no idea if Coventry is that player. I guess we will find out this season.
Yep. I much preferred when we moved Dobson further forward and he started winning the ball high up the pitch and forcing counters than when he was haring about the place at the back and leaving holes in front of the defence for the opposition to exploit. For every crunching tackle he won he'd not get near one and the opposition would have an overload down the middle. Part of us conceding fewer goals will be less of a focus on individuals doing one job and more on the collective shape and movement
Lower tackle rate and higher interception rate suggests Coventry covers the passing lanes more, instead of relying on man on man coverage like Dobson did. Different types of players and some will see it as a negative because he won't be the all action player Dobson was for us
Why all this guff about tackling? I've posted this many times before but Paolo Maldini, deemed to be one of the world's best ever defenders made an average of 19 tackles. That's not per game but per season! Over a 25-year career. That's an average of half a tackle per match. He is quoted as saying "If I have to make a tackle then I have already made a mistake."
I think that applies just as much to midfielders as defenders. What we should be striving for is not a player that runs all over the pitch getting booked every game but a player that knows and keeps to his position, reads the game, remains calm and in control. I have no idea if Coventry is that player. I guess we will find out this season.
Im aware of Paolo Maldini, I have seen Paolo Maldini, Conor Coventry is no Paolo Maldini.
Just because Coventry was brought in to replace Dobson doesn't mean he has to be the same type of player Just because he doesn't thunder into tackles like Dobbo doesn't make him a worse player Just because he doesn't run around like a lunatic doesn't make him a worse player than Dobbo
Here are some comparison stats from Wyscout which some of you may find interesting....this is based on them being in a comparable position.
There is not a lot between them in fairness. I loved Dobbo, and enjoyed watching him but he was limited. I actually think he improved as the season went on - presumably because he felt his place was under threat but maybe also because he had a little more freedom with Coventry helping out with defensive duties.
This conversation will probably go on and on but this little graphic goes to show that, according to Wyscout, I'd say Coventry just about edges
I've also attached the extract from Wyscout comparing ALL metrics captured in the system (Defensive, Attacking, Set Pieces, Passing, Key Passing) in an Excel format for anyone interested in it
Dobson was an average league one player made out by a number of fans as a premiership player sorry he was miles away from even championship player .. how many reckless tackles on the edge of our box did he make , how many passes went a stray .again in dangerous positions .. yes he had his positives but fact that no one was rushing to sign him says how “ football “ saw him …. Coventry completely diff player far more skilful and better passer of the ball , he don’t rush in or makes last ditch tackles because he reads a game better and so intercepts long before he needs to tackle or lunge in …..
Just because Coventry was brought in to replace Dobson doesn't mean he has to be the same type of player Just because he doesn't thunder into tackles like Dobbo doesn't make him a worse player Just because he doesn't run around like a lunatic doesn't make him a worse player than Dobbo
Here are some comparison stats from Wyscout which some of you may find interesting....this is based on them being in a comparable position.
There is not a lot between them in fairness. I loved Dobbo, and enjoyed watching him but he was limited. I actually think he improved as the season went on - presumably because he felt his place was under threat but maybe also because he had a little more freedom with Coventry helping out with defensive duties.
This conversation will probably go on and on but this little graphic goes to show that, according to Wyscout, I'd say Coventry just about edges
I've also attached the extract from Wyscout comparing ALL metrics captured in the system (Defensive, Attacking, Set Pieces, Passing, Key Passing) in an Excel format for anyone interested in it
Im no expert, and of course as people are always at pains to point out ‘stats don’t tell the whole story’ - but from what I’ve seen and from those stats Coventry is the sort of player who wins the ball further up the pitch, and moves the ball quicker when he has it.
Which very much fits in with Jones front foot aggressive style he wants.
The one thing I'd like to see with Coventry is him being a bit more expansive with his passing , he's got it in his locker with the pass for the penalty away at Derby being a key example but it felt like a lot of the time he kept it more simple, which is fine but I think he's got a lot more range.
The one thing I'd like to see with Coventry is him being a bit more expansive with his passing , he's got it in his locker with the pass for the penalty away at Derby being a key example but it felt like a lot of the time he kept it more simple, which is fine but I think he's got a lot more range.
I think he needs to be a lot braver on the ball. Like you say be more expansive but also try and play more forward line breaking passes. If he can start doing that then that is what will set him apart from Dobson if he can start playing balls into the feet of Berry and the front 2. Especially when Chuks is on we should be trying to get it into his feet as much as possible. Not had a player able to do that for us since Forster-Caskey
The one thing I'd like to see with Coventry is him being a bit more expansive with his passing , he's got it in his locker with the pass for the penalty away at Derby being a key example but it felt like a lot of the time he kept it more simple, which is fine but I think he's got a lot more range.
I think he needs to be a lot braver on the ball. Like you say be more expansive but also try and play more forward line breaking passes. If he can start doing that then that is what will set him apart from Dobson if he can start playing balls into the feet of Berry and the front 2. Especially when Chuks is on we should be trying to get it into his feet as much as possible. Not had a player able to do that for us since Forster-Caskey
Oh that would massively change things. I have no doubt he can probably do it but we just haven't seen it yet. If he can add passing through the lines to his repotoire then that would make him a real asset in that holding role. He's never going to be a scrappy break it up type holder.
Dobson was an average league one player made out by a number of fans as a premiership player sorry he was miles away from even championship player .. how many reckless tackles on the edge of our box did he make , how many passes went a stray .again in dangerous positions .. yes he had his positives but fact that no one was rushing to sign him says how “ football “ saw him …. Coventry completely diff player far more skilful and better passer of the ball , he don’t rush in or makes last ditch tackles because he reads a game better and so intercepts long before he needs to tackle or lunge in …..
I have to agree with you Ronnie, there were faults in Dobson's game for sure, those faults were made up for by whole hearted commitment which is why he was such a fan favourite. I think it will be worth watching Dobson's progress in a team that is definitely, as a club, moving forward, I think he was an asset to Charlton, as was Corey Blackett Taylor but are they better than this division ? only time will tell.
Just because Coventry was brought in to replace Dobson doesn't mean he has to be the same type of player Just because he doesn't thunder into tackles like Dobbo doesn't make him a worse player Just because he doesn't run around like a lunatic doesn't make him a worse player than Dobbo
Here are some comparison stats from Wyscout which some of you may find interesting....this is based on them being in a comparable position.
There is not a lot between them in fairness. I loved Dobbo, and enjoyed watching him but he was limited. I actually think he improved as the season went on - presumably because he felt his place was under threat but maybe also because he had a little more freedom with Coventry helping out with defensive duties.
This conversation will probably go on and on but this little graphic goes to show that, according to Wyscout, I'd say Coventry just about edges
I've also attached the extract from Wyscout comparing ALL metrics captured in the system (Defensive, Attacking, Set Pieces, Passing, Key Passing) in an Excel format for anyone interested in it
Im no expert, and of course as people are always at pains to point out ‘stats don’t tell the whole story’ - but from what I’ve seen and from those stats Coventry is the sort of player who wins the ball further up the pitch, and moves the ball quicker when he has it.
Which very much fits in with Jones front foot aggressive style he wants.
Dobson is a tough tackling combative player and very good at that role, if you want a firefighter type to take out a player on the break then he's your man.
Coventry's style is more to intercept the pass that put that player through. It's not as dynamic and doesn't really stir the blood like a full blooded sliding tackle does but its effective in its own way.
Hopefully we will see the player we hoped he'd be this season.
"We need to be like Peterborough and be signing the hidden gems!" "WHY are we signing Dixon, Ahadme, Mitchell we need more Champ level players!!!1111!!!!!133!!" "Why are we singing Godden, Berry, Docherty and Begovic! They're past it! We need to be signing the next Begovic!"
ad infinitum
Said absolutely no one. These posts digging out our own fans for saying things no one ever said are odd imo.
Wouldn’t be Charlton if we weren’t digging out our own fans, we’re the kings (and queens) of not allowing others to have a different opinion.
"We need to be like Peterborough and be signing the hidden gems!" "WHY are we signing Dixon, Ahadme, Mitchell we need more Champ level players!!!1111!!!!!133!!" "Why are we singing Godden, Berry, Docherty and Begovic! They're past it! We need to be signing the next Begovic!"
ad infinitum
Said absolutely no one. These posts digging out our own fans for saying things no one ever said are odd imo.
Wouldn’t be Charlton if we weren’t digging out our own fans, we’re the kings (and queens) of not allowing others to have a different opinion.
Comments
Charlton (L1 23/24):
- played in 17 of 21 fixtures
Rotherham (Championship 22/23):
- played in 16 of 18 fixtures
MK Dons (L1 21/22):
- played in 22 of 22 fixtures
Peterborough (Championship 21/22):
- played in 12 of 18 fixtures
He played 46 times for QPR last season so i'd say he's more than capable of playing in league one.
All we need to look at is whether he'd be an improvement on what we have and i think the answer to that has to be a firm yes.
I think that applies just as much to midfielders as defenders. What we should be striving for is not a player that runs all over the pitch getting booked every game but a player that knows and keeps to his position, reads the game, remains calm and in control. I have no idea if Coventry is that player. I guess we will find out this season.
Just because he doesn't thunder into tackles like Dobbo doesn't make him a worse player
Just because he doesn't run around like a lunatic doesn't make him a worse player than Dobbo
Here are some comparison stats from Wyscout which some of you may find interesting....this is based on them being in a comparable position.
There is not a lot between them in fairness. I loved Dobbo, and enjoyed watching him but he was limited. I actually think he improved as the season went on - presumably because he felt his place was under threat but maybe also because he had a little more freedom with Coventry helping out with defensive duties.
This conversation will probably go on and on but this little graphic goes to show that, according to Wyscout, I'd say Coventry just about edges
I've also attached the extract from Wyscout comparing ALL metrics captured in the system (Defensive, Attacking, Set Pieces, Passing, Key Passing) in an Excel format for anyone interested in it
Presumably if this doesn’t change, I hope it does, Mannion takes the 🧤?
Which very much fits in with Jones front foot aggressive style he wants.
Buying the players early has made them too comfortable and over relaxed.
If we had been sensible and hung on a bit longer on signing them they would be trying harder to impress.
This is why most club's wait until deadline day to get the hungry players.
Oh that would massively change things. I have no doubt he can probably do it but we just haven't seen it yet. If he can add passing through the lines to his repotoire then that would make him a real asset in that holding role. He's never going to be a scrappy break it up type holder.
Coventry's style is more to intercept the pass that put that player through. It's not as dynamic and doesn't really stir the blood like a full blooded sliding tackle does but its effective in its own way.
Hopefully we will see the player we hoped he'd be this season.