Hi Stig. I understand what you’re saying but using that logic why would someone like Ryan Reynolds invest in a 4th division outfit ? And who doesn’t think that eventually they will succeed ? I know as a London club we have to compete against a lot of rivals that teams in other areas don’t, but success breeds success. Palace only fill their ground with a lot of ‘supporters’ who just want to watch top flight football. We filled the Valley with the same type of people when we were in the Premiership. Sometimes those people stick around but in the main they are floating supporters. So I do agree the only way to make real money is to get to the top flight but unless you try & put in the ground work needed which inevitably means proper investment, you’re not giving yourself a chance. With the amount of TV money available now I’d say it’s worth a bit of speculation ( Bournemouth also spring to mind) . Of course the clubs that I mentioned probably don’t have a local council that seems hell bent on trying to put the final nail in the coffin by making parking impossible. They obviously don’t have the foresight to think that bigger crowds means more money spent in the local economy !
Like most on here I came away from the game feeling low but my overall feeling was a lack of hope that things are going to get better. Since my first game with my Dad at Orient away circa 1965 I can’t ever recall feeling like this. As has been said it’s literally Groundhog Day every game & every season. We will see how serious these new owners are by their actions to sort this currently never ending mess. To me, that means now spending proper money to build a structure for success. If we do have some billionaires in the ownership then to my way of thinking, the old adage that you have to speculate to accumulate springs to mind. If they carry on with second rate appointments & signings then don’t be surprised if you get second rate results. Or in our case third rate. The potential at Charlton is massive. It’s criminal that that potential is not being tapped. If you build it they will come . The alternative is to fiddle around trying to stick fingers in the leaking dam that eventually will burst, & this great club will just wither & die. I’m already getting that message from the posts on here from people, like me are reaching the end of their tether . The current situation is not sustainable, so if I was a billionaire with money to spare then I’d throw everything at it to make it work. If you fail then at least you’ve given it a proper go, but I’m willing to bet it will be better than what we currently have. And yes, I do appreciate that we have to work within the Financial FairPlay rules but we can certainly do better than the owners seem willing to put in at the moment. Let’s hope they prove us all wrong.
I like the cut of your jib. I'm not sure I would if I was one of our owners, though. I suspect that most of the consortium see their investment in the club as more of a one off gamble, than something they'd want to pile serious money into. You say that you need to speculate to accumulate, but at what point do you actually start accumulating? My understanding is that as club we'd still most likely lose money in the Championship. To make anything, they'd likely need that elusive double promotion. That looks exceedingly difficult.
Hopefully, you will be proved right and I will be proved wrong. But I can't actually get my head around why anyone who was honest and had money and a good eye for a investment would want anything to do with a third division football club. It seems like a far easier way of losing cash than making it.
I guess we'll get a good idea in the January transfer window of how our owners see things. I can’t honestly say I've got hopes of us securing much more than the odd out of contract player or a late loan signing. I seriously hope I'm wrong on that. Guess we'll find out soon.
The way Fraser backs off is criminal, he’s practically running away.
Did the easy thing - peel wide as if stopping the pass going out there. Then when the guy lines up to shoot he doesn't move a muscle. Simply put, he's hiding Won't do the hard graft as a professional should Only does it when he thinks somebody may be watching
But here is something that hit me today (and older CL’s will out do me here)
Dad first took me 1976 - we went down to Div 3 in 79/80 - but bounced back next season - so between 1976 and 2008 I only watched Charlton in Div 3 for one season
Since 2008 I have watched Charlton in Div 3 for ……… just depressing
At least we’ve seen Charlton at those levels. With 24/25 guaranteed be at best another L1 season, bar a disrupted Covid season, there won’t be many under 18 minimum who will remember seeing us in the Championship, let alone Prem.
I think if this sh*t show continues this month without anything remotely positive happening then perhaps CAST should be speaking with say Paul Elliott and tell him that the owners and management etc. are killing the fan base by their inactions.
I've never witnessed so many lifers comment that they've had enough...as an example when Fanny F says its bad then it bloody well is and she's not alone.
Surely we can do something? Our club is disappearing before our eyes.
Oh and if they get rid of Apples, give Pearce a chance, nothing to lose at this stage.
I think every post here tonight has been a negative, and not without reason. I'm therefore posting a few positives as it wasn't all that bad, was it? Here goes:
Not much traffic about today so the journey to The Valley was very quick and easy.
The Belvedere Cob is back in the middle of its roundabout - no more Goodbye Horse.
As the A206 sped its way past Thamesmead, there was an opportunity to witness Europe's largest collection of unused traffic cones. About three miles of them closing off one lane of traffic for no reason whatsoever. Normally this would be incredibly frustrating, but with the low traffic levels, it just added to the heightened sense of speed.
Roadworks meant that we had the rare opportunity to go 'the wrong way' past Plumstead Bus Garage. As we turned the corner we were rewarded with stunning views, from a better angle than usual, of the beautiful gold dome on the Woolwich Mosque.
Lack of crowds at Charlton meant that parking was easy. I got the plum spot right at the bottom of the Eastmoor Street steps.
The builders have done a magnificent job of restoring the facia of The Victoria Pub. It looks good enough to go in. And, you'll be able to soon - if you like grossly overpriced pizza.
Had time to enjoy a drink with my son in the north stand. I've got to say, it's the tastiest pint of line cleaner I've had since I was last at The Valley.
The gentleman who served us at the bar was a cripplingly-shy, socially-inept mute, who hated his job and the customers and resented the fact that he had to be there on a bank holiday. The great thing about this was that the distinct lack of friendly chit-chat, or in fact anything that could be broadly described as communication, meant that not one unnecessary nanosecond was wasted talking to people and there was consequently no queue.
Prior to going out, I found amongst my clothes an old string vest that I'd only ever worn once before; to dress up as Rab C. Nesbitt for a fancy dress party. I thought, 'what the heck', and slipped it on. With my moobian protuberances snuggled within the fishnet-like material, I felt as snug as you like all afternoon. I've always scoffed at such things before. But it worked a treat and I suspect will fast become required apparel.
It was ever so nice of the Oxford fans to pay tribute to our own Trotter family with a blow up doll.
For the most part the first XI played ok, until Mickey upset the Applecart and ruined it for us.
The rain that was persistent for most of the second half eased up in time to allow us to walk back to the car. Most Charlton fans were walking about with storm clouds over their heads, but at least they stayed dry.
Another really quick and easy journey home.
Every cloud….or in our case a persistent shit storm
All i can add is Holden was sacked because he tinkered too much playing players out of position and was also missing similar amount of players due to injury. Appleton came in, got the players back from injury and we went on a decent run. I’m not going to dig him out ( apart from leaving Anderson on and not bringing L Watson on) just yet. He needs to get a couple of transfer windows under his belt or this constant flip flopping of managers is just gonna keep adding the instability of the club.
All i can add is Holden was sacked because he tinkered too much playing players out of position and was also missing similar amount of players due to injury. Appleton came in, got the players back from injury and we went on a decent run. I’m not going to dig him out ( apart from leaving Anderson on and not bringing L Watson on) just yet. He needs to get a couple of transfer windows under his belt or this constant flip flopping of managers is just gonna keep adding the instability of the club.
You're too kind, I'd give him just this window to justify his continued employment. I'll be very interested to see who he deems 'not required' more than who he brings, or at least is reported as being interested in bringing in .. despite the oft repeated claims that we have a 'paper thin squad', i m o the squad is bloated with never have and never will be any gooders who need to be 'culled' (metaphorically speaking) a s a p .. loans that are a waste of money, youth teamers who are just not going to be good enough, the constantly injured and the just plain hopeless
Having said all that, I do not have a scoobie as to what player(s) might be brought in to make the squad more effective from day one
What really bothers me is if (e.g.) May, CBT and Leaburn are sold. leaving us with the hopeless and useless
I have been a addick since 1971 and Appleton is the 30th manager or head coach in my time so far. Let's get a few things straight- he is not the worse manager ever (I can think of about 5 others far more incompetent off the top of my head -Garner, Adkins, Craggs, Dowie, Reed, and that's without me thinking to hard etc) and I think the SMT would be wrong to sack Apples. Madness you might say, but here are a few reasons why I think Apples is still the man for the job:
a) he has averaged over 1.4 pts a game -that is better than 12 of our last 15 managers-only JJ, Bowyer and Powell have a better record
b) people are forgetting that our run of 8 games without a win coincides with Leaburn getting injured -that, I suggest, is not a coincidence
c) this is the same manager who led us to put 3 past Wycombe, 4 past Reading, 4 past Exeter, 3 past Wigan and got a draw at table toppers Pompey- which players were in nearly all of those games? Leaburn and Chuks -coincidence?
d) Apples is the first Charlton manager for over 12 months to have, at some point, instilled some element of resilience in the team. We had not previously been able to come back from going behind in a game for over a year, but in the games against Exeter, Blackpool, Pompey and Cheltenham we did and lost none of them. The last time we did that was the game Leaburn got crocked-again, I don't think that is a coincidence
e) I sit in the Lower West Stand and the level of knowledge/ignorance amongst some fans is stunning. When we went 2-1 down on Monday someone stood up and shouted at Apples to "...bring on a f...... striker!". But we were and are down to bare bones. With four strikers out injured who, pray, could we have brought on? Our only options was Rylah who was so nervous and poor in his debut that he had to be taken over at halftime and other was Patrick Casey who had barely passed 18 and not played in the first time before-what are people thinking? Aren't they aware of the lack of depth in our squad and our injury crisis?
f) lastly, if Apples was sacked who, with our current squad would replace him?.... Exactly! Quality managers like Darren Ferguson wouldn't even pick up the phone to us. I suspect the SMT need to come out and say it will take several transfer windows to seriousl compete. That may not be enough for a lot of addicks, but I feel that is the reality and that Apples has shown when he has a fitter squad he has delivered (see above!)
I think if this sh*t show continues this month without anything remotely positive happening then perhaps CAST should be speaking with say Paul Elliott and tell him that the owners and management etc. are killing the fan base by their inactions.
I've never witnessed so many lifers comment that they've had enough...as an example when Fanny F says its bad then it bloody well is and she's not alone.
Surely we can do something? Our club is disappearing before our eyes.
Oh and if they get rid of Apples, give Pearce a chance, nothing to lose at this stage.
Mate, Paul Elliott is not your man for this, believe me. It’s taken him ten years to clamber aboard the gravy train.
I have been a addick since 1971 and Appleton is the 30th manager or head coach in my time so far. Let's get a few things straight- he is not the worse manager ever (I can think of about 5 others far more incompetent off the top of my head -Garner, Adkins, Craggs, Dowie, Reed, and that's without me thinking to hard etc) and I think the SMT would be wrong to sack Apples. Madness you might say, but here are a few reasons why I think Apples is still the man for the job:
a) he has averaged over 1.4 pts a game -that is better than 12 of our last 15 managers-only JJ, Bowyer and Powell have a better record
b) people are forgetting that our run of 8 games without a win coincides with Leaburn getting injured -that, I suggest, is not a coincidence
c) this is the same manager who led us to put 3 past Wycombe, 4 past Reading, 4 past Exeter, 3 past Wigan and got a draw at table toppers Pompey- which players were in nearly all of those games? Leaburn and Chuks -coincidence?
d) Apples is the first Charlton manager for over 12 months to have, at some point, instilled some element of resilience in the team. We had not previously been able to come back from going behind in a game for over a year, but in the games against Exeter, Blackpool, Pompey and Cheltenham we did and lost none of them. The last time we did that was the game Leaburn got crocked-again, I don't think that is a coincidence
e) I sit in the Lower West Stand and the level of knowledge/ignorance amongst some fans is stunning. When we went 2-1 down on Monday someone stood up and shouted at Apples to "...bring on a f...... striker!". But we were and are down to bare bones. With four strikers out injured who, pray, could we have brought on? Our only options was Rylah who was so nervous and poor in his debut that he had to be taken over at halftime and other was Patrick Casey who had barely passed 18 and not played in the first time before-what are people thinking? Aren't they aware of the lack of depth in our squad and our injury crisis?
f) lastly, if Apples was sacked who, with our current squad would replace him?.... Exactly! Quality managers like Darren Ferguson wouldn't even pick up the phone to us. I suspect the SMT need to come out and say it will take several transfer windows to seriousl compete. That may not be enough for a lot of addicks, but I feel that is the reality and that Apples has shown when he has a fitter squad he has delivered (see above!)
I think that post is well balanced and factual but looking at Appleton's record since he took the managers chair is forgetting one thing. I can't remember anyone on here doing cartwheels when he was appointed and most posters were distraught at his appointment but here lies the problem. Whatever manager we appoint at this level will be met with howls of derision and with no fan backing, the knives are out double quick. Nobody on here is blaming recruitment or an injury crisis, it's entirely Appleton's fault and if he hadn't insisted on playing Alfie May out wide we would have taken a healthy points total from the December games. Appleton can't win, even if he produced a miracle and got us into the play offs, our exit from those play offs would be blamed on him and he should be sacked for sending out the team in our unlucky strip. I don't know who'd they'd appoint after Appleton but the result will be the same, so what's the point of keep sacking managers, just give him some financial backing and you never know, we might get some very overdue luck.
So many things to moan and complain about and most roads lead to Appleton, he is the problem and needs to go.
Bringing on Casey and Rylah in injury time was all about him making a point to say he could only bring kids off the bench to change the game. Putting his own interests ahead of the club. The time for making changes was on 60 mins there was still Fraser and L.Watson available, why have Watson on the bench if you have no intention of playing him? Again not playing Watson was putting his own interests ahead of the club. This was not a good Oxford team and we didn't try to win the game. He instead decides to sit us back to try and hold on to a point, the last 30 mins it was clear we needed fresh legs in midfield, so why not bring on Fraser (at a time to make an impact) and Watson?
I also noticed in the first half, a lot, and not for the first time that our full backs play so narrow, every time an opposing winger gets the ball on the wing they have all the time and space in the world to pick there pass/cross and that's what happened for the first Oxford goal granted it was a good passage of play played in behind Edun but this is what players do when they're given time and space to do so. The same happens with T.Watson on the right who also plays so narrow, and certainly by no means a one off either, this happens a lot, almost every game and never seems to be addressed even if identified, why? surely Appleton must see this and realize that having the back four only covering the width of the penalty box is a big part of our problem defensively?
That last 30 mins was a new low for me, I don't think i've actually disliked a Charlton Manager / Head Coach as much as I have done since Karel Fraeye and that was an extremely low bar set. I can accept Appleton has a lot of players out at present but then so did Oxford and with the players he still had available he isn't getting the best out of them.
Very difficult to take again did not deserve to lose , what a strike for the goal 25 yard out and right in the corner , this was just after we should have had pen when a clear foul on Hector especially as the ref had spoke to the defender seconds before about holding … but this was a young side with very little on the bench to change things in fact two 16 year olds came on .. not sure what people think MA can do without 9 players….. again not much wrong with performance if Oxford are 5th best team in today showing not much between these sides and when they start pretending to be injured to time waste against our kids that tells you all you need to know… but again it was all about the wingers , CBT allowed his man to attack our box Edun had two men , perfect cross something CBT and T Campbell wasted time and time again
You can't compare ppg to managers who managed us at in higher divisions.
I agree, to get out of this league it is win percentage that counts. Look at the win percentage of previous managers and then compare to see how Appleton fares.
I'm still not really sure how AMB let that second goal in. It's well struck but it dips low and he knows the shot's coming about 45 minutes before it does. I'm not saying it's an easy save but it's definitely one I'd expect a quality keeper to make. It's a real shame Isted got injured as AMB was looking ropey for a lot of the back end of last season and he's not looked much better since
Kept an eye on the West Ham ( spit! ) v BHA match on Sky tonight, as you do.
Previous posts I've made regarding MA's lack of, well, anything, on the touchline came to mind when subs were being made by the home management team.
Moyes spent as much time as allowed for the subs to take place, face to face with several of his players, gesticulating & pointing out (with his hands!) what he wanted them to do during the time remaining to try to win the match.
What a complete contrast to our ****, who watches on, hands still in his pockets or arms folded with seemingly no interest in what his assistant is saying to the player about to enter the fray. It's as if he's saying " That's not MY job"......
In addition, I believe it's been posted that when, at an injury /drinks break yesterday, Dobbo clearly told him that " We can't get out! ", it would appear that no move was made to address the issue on the pitch by making any changes or even suggestions !
Maybe as well as a hearing problem, he also has tongue tie ?
We need to watch more closely next time he's being interviewed to check that A N Other isn't "working him " from behind the sponsors' screens ...
...and whether a cerain Technical Director is still in the Directors' Box.
The way Fraser backs off is criminal, he’s practically running away.
Did the easy thing - peel wide as if stopping the pass going out there. Then when the guy lines up to shoot he doesn't move a muscle. Simply put, he's hiding Won't do the hard graft as a professional should Only does it when he thinks somebody may be watching
You can't compare ppg to managers who managed us at in higher divisions.
Using it as an argument to say Appleton is definitely better than those managers is obviously very silly but I don’t think that’s why it was brought up.
I think it was only to show that, despite the meltdown which would suggest he’s the worst manager we’ve ever had, there’s actually been a number of blokes that have been worse.
Some, not all, made their minds up on him the day he was appointed and sat waiting for a poor run of form to call for his head.
With others who want passion above all else, his touchline manner doesn’t do him any favours but he does deserve longer in my opinion. I’d be shocked if there’s any correlation between how shouty a manager is on the touchline and how successful your football team is.
You can't compare ppg to managers who managed us at in higher divisions.
Using it as an argument to say Appleton is definitely better than those managers is obviously very silly but I don’t think that’s why it was brought up.
I think it was only to show that, despite the meltdown which would suggest he’s the worst manager we’ve ever had, there’s actually been a number of blokes that have been worse.
Some, not all, made their minds up on him the day he was appointed and sat waiting for a poor run of form to call for his head.
With others who want passion above all else, his touchline manner doesn’t do him any favours but he does deserve longer in my opinion. I’d be shocked if there’s any correlation between how shouty a manager is on the touchline and how successful your football team is.
I’d agree with most of this and argued the same regarding his touchline calmness a few months ago.
However, his seeming lack of awareness during games to make tactical alterations to deal with ongoing issues and, in most opinions (including mine), poor use of substitutes suggests that he is standing there with his thumb up his arse.
I’m also not going to be calling for his head though as I think it’s too soon and the long injury list has to be acknowledged, but it’s impossible not to be a bit concerned!
I haven't been to a match with Appleton in charge (was tempted to when I was home over xmas but glad I swerved that really) does his assistant talk to the players while he just stands still?
Comments
Simply put, he's hiding
Won't do the hard graft as a professional should
Only does it when he thinks somebody may be watching
I've never witnessed so many lifers comment that they've had enough...as an example when Fanny F says its bad then it bloody well is and she's not alone.
Surely we can do something? Our club is disappearing before our eyes.
Oh and if they get rid of Apples, give Pearce a chance, nothing to lose at this stage.
Every cloud….or in our case a persistent shit storm
I'll be very interested to see who he deems 'not required' more than who he brings, or at least is reported as being interested in bringing in .. despite the oft repeated claims that we have a 'paper thin squad', i m o the squad is bloated with never have and never will be any gooders who need to be 'culled' (metaphorically speaking) a s a p .. loans that are a waste of money, youth teamers who are just not going to be good enough, the constantly injured and the just plain hopeless
Having said all that, I do not have a scoobie as to what player(s) might be brought in to make the squad more effective from day one
What really bothers me is if (e.g.) May, CBT and Leaburn are sold. leaving us with the hopeless and useless
a) he has averaged over 1.4 pts a game -that is better than 12 of our last 15 managers-only JJ, Bowyer and Powell have a better record
b) people are forgetting that our run of 8 games without a win coincides with Leaburn getting injured -that, I suggest, is not a coincidence
c) this is the same manager who led us to put 3 past Wycombe, 4 past Reading, 4 past Exeter, 3 past Wigan and got a draw at table toppers Pompey- which players were in nearly all of those games? Leaburn and Chuks -coincidence?
d) Apples is the first Charlton manager for over 12 months to have, at some point, instilled some element of resilience in the team. We had not previously been able to come back from going behind in a game for over a year, but in the games against Exeter, Blackpool, Pompey and Cheltenham we did and lost none of them. The last time we did that was the game Leaburn got crocked-again, I don't think that is a coincidence
e) I sit in the Lower West Stand and the level of knowledge/ignorance amongst some fans is stunning. When we went 2-1 down on Monday someone stood up and shouted at Apples to "...bring on a f...... striker!". But we were and are down to bare bones. With four strikers out injured who, pray, could we have brought on? Our only options was Rylah who was so nervous and poor in his debut that he had to be taken over at halftime and other was Patrick Casey who had barely passed 18 and not played in the first time before-what are people thinking? Aren't they aware of the lack of depth in our squad and our injury crisis?
f) lastly, if Apples was sacked who, with our current squad would replace him?.... Exactly! Quality managers like Darren Ferguson wouldn't even pick up the phone to us. I suspect the SMT need to come out and say it will take several transfer windows to seriousl compete. That may not be enough for a lot of addicks, but I feel that is the reality and that Apples has shown when he has a fitter squad he has delivered (see above!)
So many things to moan and complain about and most roads lead to Appleton, he is the problem and needs to go.
Bringing on Casey and Rylah in injury time was all about him making a point to say he could only bring kids off the bench to change the game. Putting his own interests ahead of the club. The time for making changes was on 60 mins there was still Fraser and L.Watson available, why have Watson on the bench if you have no intention of playing him? Again not playing Watson was putting his own interests ahead of the club. This was not a good Oxford team and we didn't try to win the game. He instead decides to sit us back to try and hold on to a point, the last 30 mins it was clear we needed fresh legs in midfield, so why not bring on Fraser (at a time to make an impact) and Watson?
I also noticed in the first half, a lot, and not for the first time that our full backs play so narrow, every time an opposing winger gets the ball on the wing they have all the time and space in the world to pick there pass/cross and that's what happened for the first Oxford goal granted it was a good passage of play played in behind Edun but this is what players do when they're given time and space to do so. The same happens with T.Watson on the right who also plays so narrow, and certainly by no means a one off either, this happens a lot, almost every game and never seems to be addressed even if identified, why? surely Appleton must see this and realize that having the back four only covering the width of the penalty box is a big part of our problem defensively?
That last 30 mins was a new low for me, I don't think i've actually disliked a Charlton Manager / Head Coach as much as I have done since Karel Fraeye and that was an extremely low bar set. I can accept Appleton has a lot of players out at present but then so did Oxford and with the players he still had available he isn't getting the best out of them.
Previous posts I've made regarding MA's lack of, well, anything, on the touchline came to mind when subs were being made by the home management team.
Moyes spent as much time as allowed for the subs to take place, face to face with several of his players, gesticulating & pointing out (with his hands!) what he wanted them to do during the time remaining to try to win the match.
What a complete contrast to our ****, who watches on, hands still in his pockets or arms folded with seemingly no interest in what his assistant is saying to the player about to enter the fray. It's as if he's saying " That's not MY job"......
In addition, I believe it's been posted that when, at an injury /drinks break yesterday, Dobbo clearly told him that " We can't get out! ", it would appear that no move was made to address the issue on the pitch by making any changes or even suggestions !
Maybe as well as a hearing problem, he also has tongue tie ?
We need to watch more closely next time he's being interviewed to check that A N Other isn't "working him " from behind the sponsors' screens ...
...and whether a cerain Technical Director is still in the Directors' Box.
I think it was only to show that, despite the meltdown which would suggest he’s the worst manager we’ve ever had, there’s actually been a number of blokes that have been worse.
Some, not all, made their minds up on him the day he was appointed and sat waiting for a poor run of form to call for his head.
With others who want passion above all else, his touchline manner doesn’t do him any favours but he does deserve longer in my opinion. I’d be shocked if there’s any correlation between how shouty a manager is on the touchline and how successful your football team is.
I’m also not going to be calling for his head though as I think it’s too soon and the long injury list has to be acknowledged, but it’s impossible not to be a bit concerned!