Thanks @Braziliance well done for keeping your cool and getting some answers. The proof of how the new owners see this club will, I guess , be unveiled as from Tuesday. CBT and Dobbo both stay, having been offered a decent contract, Apples gets the backing they have 'promised' him, and results pick up. I was fuming last night, even changing my opinion by 100% and wanting MA sacked, this morning, after reading your post....I've calmed down and put my thoughts firmly on Scott, Charlie and Rodwell and their actions, or lack of them! Great photos by the way mate.
In fairness to Appleton, everything he has said since he joined is true…
”This squad has a soft underbelly” ”This squad is very young / lacks seniors” ”The way to improve this situation is to change/improve the personnel” “The Jan transfer window needs to be a million times better than previous ones”
I actually agree with @RonnieMoore. Without Aneke & Leaburn any manager would struggle with this bunch (Holden had the exact same problem when they were both injured).
Appleton has to take some responsibility. Not just stand there like the dummy he is and blame others. Personnel certainly need changing..starting with him. He has obviously lost the dressing room, the hands in pockets walker.
While my video renders, I felt the need to share some of the conversations I had tonight with CAFC staff and players. Fair warning, this might be GrapeVine sized post..
Like a proper CAFC stalker, I waited outside the ground with other fans, I was in no rush to get home and figured I'd ask the players and manager what on earth is going wrong for myself, nothing toxic, just an honest conversation. I spoke with; Stephen Henderson, Corey Blackett-Taylor, Alfie May, George Dobson and Michael Appleton.
First of all, Hendo confirmed to me that Fraeye did actually sneak out in a laundry basket, or at least was happy to play along with the joke. I had an honest chat with him, said I am sick of Charlton being shit being blunt and that I am deeply concerned we have dodgy people in charge again. He said he can't speak for them (obviously) he did however say, that Appleton is the man for the job and we need to back him. I asked why he thinks that and he simply said he's a good bloke and knows what he's doing. He put our bad form down to lack of experienced pros and fatigue..
CBT was the next player I had a chat with, asked him more or less the same thing, he confidently told me that Appleton is a good coach and they are struggling only because of players. He said in particular he is really missing Chuks and Leaburn and how hard it is to play without a physical striker near him. I asked him what's the deal with him staying here, in his own words (I can't remember the exact wording) he wants to stay here, loves it at Charlton, he is personally willing to sign but he said it's up to the club. He didn't say he would sign, but he did shake my hand and looked me dead in the eyes and said he hopes he ends up with a contract here.
I then spoke with Alf, who was carrying a knock which is why he was hooked. Everyone saw him limping, he didn't say it was serious but just a precaution. He is a proper lovely bloke, really chatty. He also like Hendo and CBT said they are really struggling with lack of personnel.
Next up was Appleton himself. Now I'll be honest, I didn't berate him cause I thought it would be odd (odd enough I waited to speak to them tbh) but I did ask him a few 'challenging questions' and so did the other people I was with. He was adamant we played well tonight, one of the lads I was with disagreed and said we didn't and can't see what he's trying to do. He simply put it down to inexperience and lack of pros. Says the team has too much youth and they're really struggling. He was pretty damning about the situation in the sense he firmly believes he hasn't the right tools. I basically cut to the chase and said regardless of if he manages or not, it's groundhog day, the bottom line is, are you being backed by the board? He said that he has been told there will be signings and he took the job with that being clear. He wouldn't say the exact budget but said there's backing. At this point I just said fair play for talking to us. As I went to walk away Henderson came over and it got a bit bizarre. Hendo basically interrupted the conversation and asked one of the lads 'if Appleton goes like you're saying he might, then what? because how many managers has it been now?' Appleton then chimed in with 'I've seen ridiculous suggestions like Curbs? like come on, you need to move on'. Stressed again he needs time and bodies. Henderson seemed really protective of him to be honest, spoke with a lot of conviction that he is the man and seemed really annoyed at how he was boo'd off etc. Anyway that was pretty much that.
Finally I spoke to Dobson, who I asked the similar questions, he said, as you expect that it's fatigue and a lack of experience. Says they're struggling. All of them said they were happy with Appleton (I didn't expect a different answer) and that the lack of experience is really costing them. Finally I said to Dobson the same as CBT, contract situation. He like CBT, said he wants to stay, he likes it here, if the club can offer him the right deal he will stay. Like CBT I made him shake on it (can't go back on a gentlemans handshake) and tbf they both seemed pretty convincing.
If I am completely honest, speaking to them so openly made me feel different travelling home, I wasn't as angry anymore as they genuinely seemed really deflated. My concern is now, how they react if Appleton goes, they all seemed to genuinely like him and as much as I've slandered Appleton, credit where credit is due, he answered every question chucked at him and kept his cool. I am still of the belief he isn't the man because I can't see a playstyle, but I have come to terms with that he really is just a quiet bloke. I was genuinely quite stunned at how mellow he comes across.
Not sure what to make of it all tbh. Thought it was worth sharing though, also yes I know I am a stalker for waiting for them
So fatigue and inexperience…
Fatigue is bollocks, played the same as everyone else in this busy Xmas period
And inexperience… are we really inexperienced? From our starting line up only Kanu, Anderson and Campbell I would say are inexperienced
Back in about 1965 Cliff Holton joined (mid thirties) and saved us from relegation from division 2 to division 3. We need an experienced modern Cliff Holton equivalent in January. I don't mean Ben Watson or equivalent with his zimmer frame as his legs have gone.
My first game was Easter after his signing (I thought it was 66 but accept you could be right). Cliff Holton got a hat trick 5-2 vs PNE.
While my video renders, I felt the need to share some of the conversations I had tonight with CAFC staff and players. Fair warning, this might be GrapeVine sized post..
Like a proper CAFC stalker, I waited outside the ground with other fans, I was in no rush to get home and figured I'd ask the players and manager what on earth is going wrong for myself, nothing toxic, just an honest conversation. I spoke with; Stephen Henderson, Corey Blackett-Taylor, Alfie May, George Dobson and Michael Appleton.
First of all, Hendo confirmed to me that Fraeye did actually sneak out in a laundry basket, or at least was happy to play along with the joke. I had an honest chat with him, said I am sick of Charlton being shit being blunt and that I am deeply concerned we have dodgy people in charge again. He said he can't speak for them (obviously) he did however say, that Appleton is the man for the job and we need to back him. I asked why he thinks that and he simply said he's a good bloke and knows what he's doing. He put our bad form down to lack of experienced pros and fatigue..
CBT was the next player I had a chat with, asked him more or less the same thing, he confidently told me that Appleton is a good coach and they are struggling only because of players. He said in particular he is really missing Chuks and Leaburn and how hard it is to play without a physical striker near him. I asked him what's the deal with him staying here, in his own words (I can't remember the exact wording) he wants to stay here, loves it at Charlton, he is personally willing to sign but he said it's up to the club. He didn't say he would sign, but he did shake my hand and looked me dead in the eyes and said he hopes he ends up with a contract here.
I then spoke with Alf, who was carrying a knock which is why he was hooked. Everyone saw him limping, he didn't say it was serious but just a precaution. He is a proper lovely bloke, really chatty. He also like Hendo and CBT said they are really struggling with lack of personnel.
Next up was Appleton himself. Now I'll be honest, I didn't berate him cause I thought it would be odd (odd enough I waited to speak to them tbh) but I did ask him a few 'challenging questions' and so did the other people I was with. He was adamant we played well tonight, one of the lads I was with disagreed and said we didn't and can't see what he's trying to do. He simply put it down to inexperience and lack of pros. Says the team has too much youth and they're really struggling. He was pretty damning about the situation in the sense he firmly believes he hasn't the right tools. I basically cut to the chase and said regardless of if he manages or not, it's groundhog day, the bottom line is, are you being backed by the board? He said that he has been told there will be signings and he took the job with that being clear. He wouldn't say the exact budget but said there's backing. At this point I just said fair play for talking to us. As I went to walk away Henderson came over and it got a bit bizarre. Hendo basically interrupted the conversation and asked one of the lads 'if Appleton goes like you're saying he might, then what? because how many managers has it been now?' Appleton then chimed in with 'I've seen ridiculous suggestions like Curbs? like come on, you need to move on'. Stressed again he needs time and bodies. Henderson seemed really protective of him to be honest, spoke with a lot of conviction that he is the man and seemed really annoyed at how he was boo'd off etc. Anyway that was pretty much that.
Finally I spoke to Dobson, who I asked the similar questions, he said, as you expect that it's fatigue and a lack of experience. Says they're struggling. All of them said they were happy with Appleton (I didn't expect a different answer) and that the lack of experience is really costing them. Finally I said to Dobson the same as CBT, contract situation. He like CBT, said he wants to stay, he likes it here, if the club can offer him the right deal he will stay. Like CBT I made him shake on it (can't go back on a gentlemans handshake) and tbf they both seemed pretty convincing.
If I am completely honest, speaking to them so openly made me feel different travelling home, I wasn't as angry anymore as they genuinely seemed really deflated. My concern is now, how they react if Appleton goes, they all seemed to genuinely like him and as much as I've slandered Appleton, credit where credit is due, he answered every question chucked at him and kept his cool. I am still of the belief he isn't the man because I can't see a playstyle, but I have come to terms with that he really is just a quiet bloke. I was genuinely quite stunned at how mellow he comes across.
Not sure what to make of it all tbh. Thought it was worth sharing though, also yes I know I am a stalker for waiting for them
So fatigue and inexperience…
Fatigue is bollocks, played the same as everyone else in this busy Xmas period
And inexperience… are we really inexperienced? From our starting line up only Kanu, Anderson and Campbell I would say are inexperienced
To be fair, I’m not sure how much existence Alfie May has as a right winger!
I'm sure most of us will have worked in a department where we are happy and performing well. When have any of us in that postitio, ever thought, "I know a department that is in total disarray, I'll go and work there, for the same money, and probably get dogs abuse, but it'll be a fun challenge!"
Realistically, what manager or players, of the required quality, can we attract right now , and most importantly for our owners, what would the budget increase be?
Nice work @Braziliance, top man to hang around and ask those questions.
However, it doesn't change my opinion at all. Players are hardly going to publicly say they don't back the manager outside the ground.
I'm seeing every single individual regress under his coaching, set pieces still as bad as they were under Holden, and defensively the worst I've ever seen us. He can't keep blaming the personnel, he's got to take some responsibility for the fact he's setting us up wrong week in week out.
From what I heard around me in the away end last night, he'll need a 10 game winning run to even begin to win back fans.
Never was a fan of Appleton and thought it was a very bland hire for an ownership talking up our chances but I really think the squad is the major issue right now and I just don’t believe they have either the dough or the desire to radically change the type of players we need. They should be offering new deals to Dobson and CBT and then bringing in 4 or 5 experienced and proven players. The younger players whether ours or loanees need time away from the first team, we currently do not have a young Gomez on our books or a Gallagher on loan.
I hope we’re pleasantly surprised with the transfer window but I hold little hope it will make that much difference.
What a load of bs May is a central striker or 10 who is one of the country’s leading scorers when playing centrally.
There is absolutely no sense in playing him out wide. Particularly when, for all the ‘injuries’, Appleton actually has personnel who can do that job in Chem and TC.
Also Henderson is of course going to be very pro Appleton as he's given him a job. Words are words.
The next 4.5 weeks will be telling we'll either get a boatload of decent signings in (and buck the trend of a decade) and will give Appleton a few months to show what he can do (or not) with a decent squad especially with others hopefully coming back from injury to give us something to build on in summer and some optimism for next season.
Or he won't.
Or they (the owners/ Scott) won't and the merry go round cycle of hit and hope recruitment continues with the same results until this lot pack it in after realising they can't buck the trend of being cleverer than everyone else.
A couple of good signings (genuinely good ones....not inflated because they've signed for us) in the first 2 weeks of jan followed by a few more will give some hope. Not sure we'll get that though and it will be more Matt Smiths but we'll see soon enough.
Big thanks for that @Braziliance. It doesn't erase how dire most of the first half was, or the endless mistakes in the second. But interesting to hear from some of the cast in that shit show. As with most stuff around Charlton, I'll wait to see what the transfer window brings. The Club have certainly set themselves up here. Numerous references to players coming in, so too many youngsters. Let's see what happens.
- Henderson confirmed Fraeye hid in a laundry basket, says Appleton is the man and we need to back him
For real?! I always thought it was an urban legend
He wasn’t being for real. The whole thing started with a BBC Radio Essex commentator who said it on air and then ran around telling people that’s what had happened as fact for his own amusement - it was all a bit weird and then spread like wildfire.
What had actually happened was Katrien called an emergency meeting using one of Colchester's offices in their tunnel area which meant that Karel and a couple of others didn’t leave the stadium until after the coach had left.
One of the most absurd things I keep reading is the fact we miss Aneke. I understand why, but his fitness is about as consistent as Hayley’s comet. The fact we still have players and fans referencing this as if next time he’s fit we’ll be okay is quite simply astounding.
It’s almost as if they/we believe that when he’s back, all will be okay
One of the most absurd things I keep reading is the fact we miss Aneke. I understand why, but his fitness is about as consistent as Hayley’s comet. The fact we still have players and fans referencing this as if next time he’s fit we’ll be okay is quite simply astounding.
It’s almost as if they/we believe that when he’s back, all will be okay
We are so dire that we are better with him, for the two or three games a season when he pitches up.
I get that things are hard for Appleton without Leaburn and Aneke.
But whose stupidity was it that saw Aneke out injured again? Step forward Appleton.
Any of us could have told him he was so injury prone that the only sensible thing to do was bring him on for the last 20 minutes or so. Yet Appleton started him, left him on for 54 minutes and hey presto, what a surprise down he went and we havent seen him since.
Woke up this morning hoping MA had been shown the door, maybe too early in the morning as Scott and Methern are having a lay-in.
Don't see it happening, this will be a massive loss of face for Andy Scott. We will have to flirt with relegation before he pulls the trigger again. Let's be honest though everyone saying give the guy a window, it's not him that's making any of the signings. Andy Scott signs them and who ever the manager is plays them.
Woke up this AM to @Braziliance, brilliant piece. This Jans "window" is vital. This season is pretty much done for. But i think to sack Apples now would be madness, ( I like the saying. Those the Gods wish to destroy they first make them mad )
We must back the manager with some decent signings secure some of our "proven players" Dubbo, CBT, Alfie, on sensible contracts. New GK, Beef up the defence with a no nonsense centre half, a combative midfielder, striker for good measure.
This aint going to be cheap, and even if we don't make the playoffs we can build and have a style of play that we have the players for, and have a real go at the league next season with a settled team.
But AS, you need to do what you are paid for, and Charlie boy you and your "Big Shot " Yanks to need to dig deep into their wallets and do it early, and prove to the fan base your mean business.
Thanks @Braziliance well done for keeping your cool and getting some answers. The proof of how the new owners see this club will, I guess , be unveiled as from Tuesday. CBT and Dobbo both stay, having been offered a decent contract, Apples gets the backing they have 'promised' him, and results pick up. I was fuming last night, even changing my opinion by 100% and wanting MA sacked, this morning, after reading your post....I've calmed down and put my thoughts firmly on Scott, Charlie and Rodwell and their actions, or lack of them! Great photos by the way mate.
If we played may and tedic up top and switched to a 3 5 2, i am convinced u would see an upturn in results - apples is making a bad situation worse by sticking to his shit formation - that is squarely on him - there are other things that convince me he's a dud but for that alone, he should be sacked - he's killed our season. Scott needs to do the deed now.
We actually played three at the back earlier in the season Doucher, Holden played that formation and eventually his insistence on playing it added to the reasons for his dismissal. That said you now have two fit fullbacks/wingbacks which Holden didn't have, it still wouldn't have stopped Corey Blackett Taylor standing looking a free kick being taken when he should have stood in front of it.
Could someone comment on Edun involvement since conceding 1st goal at Gills? To me he seems not to be "switched on", and has responsibility. (OK along with others sometimes) for the goals we are conceding. Wondered if T Thomas would be better (defensively) at the the expense of passing ability/getting forward etc?
If we played may and tedic up top and switched to a 3 5 2, i am convinced u would see an upturn in results - apples is making a bad situation worse by sticking to his shit formation - that is squarely on him - there are other things that convince me he's a dud but for that alone, he should be sacked - he's killed our season. Scott needs to do the deed now.
We actually played three at the back earlier in the season Doucher, Holden played that formation and eventually his insistence on playing it added to the reasons for his dismissal. That said you now have two fit fullbacks/wingbacks which Holden didn't have, it still wouldn't have stopped Corey Blackett Taylor standing looking a free kick being taken when he should have stood in front of it.
Could someone comment on Edun involvement since conceding 1st goal at Gills? To me he seems not to be "switched on", and has responsibility. (OK along with others sometimes) for the goals we are conceding. Wondered if T Thomas would be better (defensively) at the the expense of passing ability/getting forward etc?
Issue is, who would sack Apples? Scott I assume is the man in charge of that but if he did so he would be admitting having totally cocked up the appointment so soon. Not a good look for him so no incentive for him to do so.
Apples minus Leaburn/Aneke points per game v Holden's must now be about on par I reckon. Yet Apple's has many other players at his disposal than Holden did.
For me Holden was limited but likeable. Apples is just as limited and not very likeable. We should have stayed with Holden and backed him, or at least held onto him until someone of real ability became available.
Manager is such a key appointment and once again the people in charge of our club have got it wrong. Is it always the managers fault? No, but look where all our ex ones go... Downhill, why.. because they are all shite.
Managers of ability will not come to us under the present structure. If the rumours are true of the relationship between Scott and Appleton being uneasy, I'd not be surprised if Appleton has thought "fuck this" and 'playing' for a sacking.
The moment he said about transfer windows needing to be a million times better u knew he was no longer ‘ in the programme’ - that, whether intended or not - is a direct attack on Scott who has overseen the last 2 windows
Comments
I was fuming last night, even changing my opinion by 100% and wanting MA sacked, this morning, after reading your post....I've calmed down and put my thoughts firmly on Scott, Charlie and Rodwell and their actions, or lack of them!
Great photos by the way mate.
I am probably still wanting Appleton gone but plenty more problems then just him.
Fatigue is bollocks, played the same as everyone else in this busy Xmas period
And inexperience… are we really inexperienced? From our starting line up only Kanu, Anderson and Campbell I would say are inexperienced
Realistically, what manager or players, of the required quality, can we attract right now , and most importantly for our owners, what would the budget increase be?
However, it doesn't change my opinion at all. Players are hardly going to publicly say they don't back the manager outside the ground.
I'm seeing every single individual regress under his coaching, set pieces still as bad as they were under Holden, and defensively the worst I've ever seen us. He can't keep blaming the personnel, he's got to take some responsibility for the fact he's setting us up wrong week in week out.
From what I heard around me in the away end last night, he'll need a 10 game winning run to even begin to win back fans.
For real?! I always thought it was an urban legend
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/michael-appleton-defends-decision-to-play-charlton-athletic-attacker-alfie-may-in-wide-role/
May is a central striker or 10 who is one of the country’s leading scorers when playing centrally.
The next 4.5 weeks will be telling we'll either get a boatload of decent signings in (and buck the trend of a decade) and will give Appleton a few months to show what he can do (or not) with a decent squad especially with others hopefully coming back from injury to give us something to build on in summer and some optimism for next season.
Or he won't.
Or they (the owners/ Scott) won't and the merry go round cycle of hit and hope recruitment continues with the same results until this lot pack it in after realising they can't buck the trend of being cleverer than everyone else.
A couple of good signings (genuinely good ones....not inflated because they've signed for us) in the first 2 weeks of jan followed by a few more will give some hope. Not sure we'll get that though and it will be more Matt Smiths but we'll see soon enough.
What had actually happened was Katrien called an emergency meeting using one of Colchester's offices in their tunnel area which meant that Karel and a couple of others didn’t leave the stadium until after the coach had left.
But whose stupidity was it that saw Aneke out injured again? Step forward Appleton.
Any of us could have told him he was so injury prone that the only sensible thing to do was bring him on for the last 20 minutes or so. Yet Appleton started him, left him on for 54 minutes and hey presto, what a surprise down he went and we havent seen him since.
So let's not forget why Aneke is missing.
Don't see it happening, this will be a massive loss of face for Andy Scott. We will have to flirt with relegation before he pulls the trigger again. Let's be honest though everyone saying give the guy a window, it's not him that's making any of the signings. Andy Scott signs them and who ever the manager is plays them.
This Jans "window" is vital. This season is pretty much done for.
But i think to sack Apples now would be madness, ( I like the saying. Those the Gods wish to destroy they first make them mad )
We must back the manager with some decent signings secure some of our "proven players"
Dubbo, CBT, Alfie, on sensible contracts.
New GK, Beef up the defence with a no nonsense centre half, a combative midfielder, striker for good measure.
This aint going to be cheap, and even if we don't make the playoffs we can build and have a style of play that we have the players for, and have a real go at the league next season with a settled team.
But AS, you need to do what you are paid for, and Charlie boy you and your "Big Shot "
Yanks to need to dig deep into their wallets and do it early, and prove to the fan base your mean business.