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POST MATCH THREAD : Leyton Orient Vs Charlton Athletic : Tuesday Boxing Day 2023 : KO 13:00

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    Brown sums it up perfectly .. the manager and most of the 'players' are roving mercenaries 'playing' for the cash and certainly NOT for the shirt .. even the 'home grown' graduates to the first team don't seem to show the fervour for the club that I expect, or am I being too hard here .. whatever, the way out of the club's present limboland will not be easy, signing management and players with the necessary zeal will be expensive and will take a long time i m o .. still Luton managed it and so have countless other temporarily 'fallen giants'. We can only hope that our time will come again
    Sadly it's the kids who's heads drop first as they look at the senior pro's and expect guidance when none is forthcoming. That said, there was only two kids Maynard Brewer and Kanu who started today and it was after substitutions were made, that we conceded. Appleton's frustration is not only with a lack of forwards and the side having very little backbone, it's the lack of quality or appetite of those on the bench. Tedic is really poor and Tyreece Campbell has the look of somebody who has been thrown into arena to grapple with Lions
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    What upset me about today, and upset is the right word, is that I know we have injuries but Orient were a poor side, We started with the same side who were so disapointing against Burton and it was clear it wasn't working and nothing was done for much of the game to try to address it. Now I get the argument that making changes to something that isn't working may not actually work, Indeed it may not, but if it doesn't work at least you are trying to change it. I think this is poor from the management side and suspect there may be something going on that we don't know about. We are a very hard team to support unless you enjoy the constant kicks in the teeth.
    ‘There may be something going on that we don’t know about.’

    I think you have nailed it, but our fan base is shrewd enough to figure it out eventually.
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    edited December 2023
    Burton was the final straw for me. Took no interest in the game today which is highly unusual for me.

    And after reading all the comments, that sounds a really good move.

    Thing I don't get with Appleton is his insistence on playing 4231 when we don't have the forwards to play it. You might get away with it with a fully fit Aneke (don't laugh) or possibly, Leaburn but playing the likes of May or Kanu up front by themselves is pure lunacy.

    I know the "experts" say you can't play 2 up front in modern football but it's got to be worth a go. In fact, earlier in the season when May partnered Kanu up front  we actually looked dangerous.

    Appleton is an idiot to carry on playing a system that isn't designed for the players he has at his current disposal instead of trying something else.


    Sadly this is how I feel. It may not be optimum but we are playing into the hands of poor sides by not playing two up front at this moment. We are finding it too hard to create chances and no matter the opponent, even Cray F*ing Paper Mills, can score against us. Today it wasn't working playing Kanu wide but we persisted with the tactic that was never going to work time and time again. He needed moving to C Campbell's position at least to try and pose a threat. There is no desire to play quick incisive balls except from Dobbo and Hector and when we clear a ball, even with loads of time, we are lazy and hopeful and often give it straight back. Balls into the box, again, even with bags of time are lazy and poor except the odd one or two from CBT. When we are in a position where a good touch is requied and we are in, you can guarantee there will be a poor one This is not good enough. It has to be said.
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    edited December 2023
    Valley11 said:
    A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
    I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possible 
    Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?
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    edited December 2023
    Now it is clear we can't make the play offs, there is little point sticking with Appleton and we need a manager to start building for next season in January. I was for keeping him and giving him a window to bridge the gap but the gap looks unbridgeable already. Do we want him managing us next season, if not the club has to act.

    In Appleton's defence, I think he may realise we have to lose quite a few players, but maybe he needed to string them along through December and they are not playing for him as he hasn't. As we were behind the curve going into December this has been a disaster.
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    Don't care which manager replaces Appleton. at least we might win a few with new manager bounce. Maybe have 4 managers a season. 

    Utter garbage. Hacked off with it all. For all the talk of the younger players not being good enough, it's doing them no favours being part of this team. Tyreece needs to be out on loan, so does Kanu. 

    I didn't boo. No complaints at those who did. 
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    edited December 2023
    .
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    We need some Prem quality loanees (not Tedic). 
    No we don’t, we need top level League One / Championship level signings. We won’t get them, but that’s what we need.
    We have Hector, CBT and May that fit your description - but if you don’t want another Gallagher, Rak Saki, Beilik, Cullen or Maatsen then fair enough. 
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    They won’t be sacking Appleton. 
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    Need to build a team for next season. Bring in players for next season. Bring in a new manager first though. Apples is clueless.
    Scott first.
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    redbuttle said:
    Valley11 said:
    A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
    I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possible 
    Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?
    Plenty. We have become so weak in our mindset that some are now wondering if we’re a draw. Of course we are! 
    Regardless, get rid of this bloke. The most un Charlton, uninspiring, middle of the road manager going
    We deserve and should be demanding more 
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    Valley11 said:
    redbuttle said:
    Valley11 said:
    A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
    I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possible 
    Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?
    Plenty. We have become so weak in our mindset that some are now wondering if we’re a draw. Of course we are! 
    Regardless, get rid of this bloke. The most un Charlton, uninspiring, middle of the road manager going
    We deserve and should be demanding more 
    Name one...
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    edited December 2023
    Now it is clear we can't make the play offs, there is little point sticking with Appleton and we need a manager to start building for next season in January. I was for keeping him and giving him a window to bridge the gap but the gap looks unbridgeable already. Do we want him managing us next season, if not the club has to act.

    In Appleton's defence, I think he may realise we have to lose quite a few players, but maybe he needed to string them along through December and they are not playing for him as he hasn't. As we were behind the curve going into December this has been a disaster.
    What if it become clear next Christmas that we can't make the playoffs? Do we sack that manager without giving him a chance to bring a few of his own choice players in?

    Again, not defending MA, but this idea we get someone else in to "start building", without giving MA a chance "to build" sounds ludicrous....
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    edited December 2023
    We need some Prem quality loanees (not Tedic). 
    No we don’t, we need top level League One / Championship level signings. We won’t get them, but that’s what we need.
    We have Hector, CBT and May that fit your description - but if you don’t want another Gallagher, Rak Saki, Beilik, Cullen or Maatsen then fair enough. 
    Because having a succession of loanees in critical positions has left us in such a strong position…
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    edited December 2023
    redbuttle said:
    Valley11 said:
    redbuttle said:
    Valley11 said:
    A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
    I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possible 
    Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?
    Plenty. We have become so weak in our mindset that some are now wondering if we’re a draw. Of course we are! 
    Regardless, get rid of this bloke. The most un Charlton, uninspiring, middle of the road manager going
    We deserve and should be demanding more 
    Name one...
    Michael Duff, did good jobs at Barnsley and Cheltenham, plays a style that will get the best out of May (he’s the manager that first got him scoring regularly)

    Picked the wrong championship job in Swansea so probably will have to drop back to league 1 for his next job 
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    DOUCHER said:
    DOUCHER said:
    Wouldn't be at all surprised if Alfie put in a transfer request if nothing is forthcoming within 7 days of the window opening, he must be feeling "why did I agree to come here"...🤷‍♂️
    If I was Alfie I'd be saying to Appleton....

    "I'm playing up front. If you play me out wide I'm just going to move inside & play centre forward where I've played all my life. Its up to you boss but I know whose side the fans will be on". 
    1. Any decent manager would drop you and have you training with the reserves.

    2. May played up front today and was, again, ineffective there.


    There is no big man available for Alfie to play off whether he’s in a two up top or playing the 10 in behind. That’s the biggest problem with Alfie right now.
    tedic?
    and even when chucks and leaburn were fit he was being played in the hole coz apples is wedded to 433 
    For all intents and purposes, he was a second striker in that formation. It gave him the opportunity to arrive late in the box and finish off our moves. It was working really really well.

    I would be in favour of putting Alfie back in that role if we can get another striker in that fits that mold.
    ok but why not just play him up top in a 2 with a physical strike partner rather than leaving us undermanned in midfield?  Answer - because apples is wedded to 433 and is a prize chump. 352 will suit our best two players - may and dobbo - once cbt is sold but apples will persist with the 433 bollox so get rid now and stop wasting time 
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    NabySarr said:
    Sack Appleton, bring in Michael Duff. 

    Rebuild for 3-5-2, building around May as he’s our best player. Instead of what Appleton is doing and moving our best player around to accommodate his system 
    exactly - spot on 
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    edited December 2023
    Valley11 said:
    redbuttle said:
    Valley11 said:
    A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
    I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possible 
    Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?
    Plenty. We have become so weak in our mindset that some are now wondering if we’re a draw. Of course we are! 
    Regardless, get rid of this bloke. The most un Charlton, uninspiring, middle of the road manager going
    We deserve and should be demanding more 
    It’s really nothing to do with the fans mindset - The club is in a downward spiral of one / two managers a season, evermore deluded and skinflint owners, with increasingly bizarre ideas re how to make money, fronted by a bunch of progressively more questionable individuals.

    We got Appleton because no one else would touch us and he has been resented as a result of collective disappointment and anger, as well as average and disappointing results, rightly or wrongly, since he started.

    The bottom line is that the most recent crap owners haven’t delivered and it’s unlikely that they will. Can anyone honestly say this squad isn’t average and paper thin? Does anyone really expect these owners are going to spend what is required? 

    I just wonder how long it will be before they realise they have been royally had by Charlie and bale…..

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    edited December 2023
    Gribbo said:
    Now it is clear we can't make the play offs, there is little point sticking with Appleton and we need a manager to start building for next season in January. I was for keeping him and giving him a window to bridge the gap but the gap looks unbridgeable already. Do we want him managing us next season, if not the club has to act.

    In Appleton's defence, I think he may realise we have to lose quite a few players, but maybe he needed to string them along through December and they are not playing for him as he hasn't. As we were behind the curve going into December this has been a disaster.
    What if it become clear next Christmas that we can't make the playoffs? Do we sack that manager without giving him a chance to bring a few of his own choice players in?

    Again, not defending MA, but this idea we get someone else in to "start building", without giving MA a chance "to build" sounds ludicrous....
    I agree it does feel like we're in an endless cycle of needing to give managers a chance during a window before giving them the boot, but I just want to see a manger get the best out of the players they currently have before giving them a window. I have no idea who to bring instead, but I don't think it's Apples to take us forward
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