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POST MATCH THREAD : Leyton Orient Vs Charlton Athletic : Tuesday Boxing Day 2023 : KO 13:00

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    Right. Clearly an important point which has put us, as a club, in the bargain bin. What I missed was how The Valley ever went from the ownership of Greenwich borough to RD? Please help us out.. 
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    Carter said:
    Cloudworm said:
    DOUCHER said:
    Gribbo said:
    Our players and manager are always going to be mediocre as long as we're League 1. Players who are 100% in all areas of their game don't tend to play in League 1, they're usually with Chelsea or City in the Prem.

    CBT, for example, getting pelters for not being able to finish a move every time; yeah that's right, because if he did have the finishing touch every time, he wouldn't be playing for Charlton.

    Just think the idea is to give a mediocre manager time and support, to get the best out of a team of mediocre players, who each make up for eachother's short falls. The only alternative to that, imo, is to invest heavily, or do a Wrexham and become fashionable overnight.
    The most sensible analysis in this thread 
    or there's the third option which is what powell and bowyer did - put a good side together with good players in a sensible formation that suits them 
    Somehow they were facilitated in that. Billionaire owners don't come round too often.

    As someone who wasn't really following the club so closely during the Roland years, I beg the question; on the pitch, was it really that bad when you look back at it objectively? I know people invested a lot of time and emotion in the CARD stuff, so it might be hard to admit. However, our slide as a club seems to have a force beyond Roland and since he's left, it's worsened. He seemed to have us top of League 1/championship strugglers. Who wouldn't accept that right now?

    I just wonder if what we are witnessing is the inevitable outcome of bad timing, premier League TV money allocation and escalating parachute payments since we were relegated from the prem. Even a new billionaire wouldn't be able to buy success as we don't have the revenue to satisfy the financial rules. In short, we've missed the boat and should probably accept it.
    Its because of that prick we are in the mess we are in. He started the ball rolling by rocking up at the end of January 2014, sat down with Latrien and told us what was going to happen. A Belgian journalist also told us what would happen and just to be sure shill #1 also told us what was going g to happen. He then set about selling our best 2 players, replacing them with utterly inadequate and unsuitable players, sacked Chris Powell, failed to renew the contract of the core squad players and the rest blurs into a long and horrible time for the club and everyone. 

    Because that skidmark still owns the stuff that is actually worth something and rightly or wrongly has stuck a high price on what is valuable London Real Estate but not real estate that is worth much in real terms. This then means in theory anyone with an ok credit score can have a stab at running the club, they then discover it will cost in the region of 800k a month to run and need prolonged, ongoing cash investment and after expecting a series of managers to make a silk purse out of ginger pubic hair and being abused and held to account by a load of horrible working class fans who disgustingly feel a sense of ownership of the club and start making ruckus 


    But how did he get to own it? When I tapped out (Jimenez year(s)?) I thought the ground was owned by the borough. That was in place since the 1992 return. What changed?

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    edited December 2023
    JamesSeed said:
    swordfish said:
    I don't believe our current predicament is down to fan apathy, or anger for that matter. 
    No one has said it is as far as I can see?
    They haven't, but some believe fan anger directed at players motivates them to do better and prove their doubters wrong. Others that it tempts them to play it safe.

    Either way, if expressions of anger or apathy affect performance levels and results then they contribute to our predicament. But if we all agree that fans aren't to blame for it, like I said, why do some turn on others to say they aren't helping our situation when they are aren't harming it?

    Fans who have come to accept where we are as a club just have more limited expectations and aren't a problem are they? They still want us to be successful.
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    Cloudworm said:
    Right. Clearly an important point which has put us, as a club, in the bargain bin. What I missed was how The Valley ever went from the ownership of Greenwich borough to RD? Please help us out.. 
    If only there were books about this…
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    edited December 2023
    Fumbluff said:
    Cloudworm said:
    Right. Clearly an important point which has put us, as a club, in the bargain bin. What I missed was how The Valley ever went from the ownership of Greenwich borough to RD? Please help us out.. 
    If only there were books about this…
    Is there? If there is, just refer me to where I can read it or buy it please.

    Or just tell me how he bought it.
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    I wonder what the average age of the starting line ups were yesterday. Again, it felt like mean against boys. Or was that all down to Pratley?
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    Cloudworm said:
    Right. Clearly an important point which has put us, as a club, in the bargain bin. What I missed was how The Valley ever went from the ownership of Greenwich borough to RD? Please help us out.. 
    When did Greenwich Borough own Charlton Athletic ???
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    Cloudworm said:
    Carter said:
    Cloudworm said:
    DOUCHER said:
    Gribbo said:
    Our players and manager are always going to be mediocre as long as we're League 1. Players who are 100% in all areas of their game don't tend to play in League 1, they're usually with Chelsea or City in the Prem.

    CBT, for example, getting pelters for not being able to finish a move every time; yeah that's right, because if he did have the finishing touch every time, he wouldn't be playing for Charlton.

    Just think the idea is to give a mediocre manager time and support, to get the best out of a team of mediocre players, who each make up for eachother's short falls. The only alternative to that, imo, is to invest heavily, or do a Wrexham and become fashionable overnight.
    The most sensible analysis in this thread 
    or there's the third option which is what powell and bowyer did - put a good side together with good players in a sensible formation that suits them 
    Somehow they were facilitated in that. Billionaire owners don't come round too often.

    As someone who wasn't really following the club so closely during the Roland years, I beg the question; on the pitch, was it really that bad when you look back at it objectively? I know people invested a lot of time and emotion in the CARD stuff, so it might be hard to admit. However, our slide as a club seems to have a force beyond Roland and since he's left, it's worsened. He seemed to have us top of League 1/championship strugglers. Who wouldn't accept that right now?

    I just wonder if what we are witnessing is the inevitable outcome of bad timing, premier League TV money allocation and escalating parachute payments since we were relegated from the prem. Even a new billionaire wouldn't be able to buy success as we don't have the revenue to satisfy the financial rules. In short, we've missed the boat and should probably accept it.
    Its because of that prick we are in the mess we are in. He started the ball rolling by rocking up at the end of January 2014, sat down with Latrien and told us what was going to happen. A Belgian journalist also told us what would happen and just to be sure shill #1 also told us what was going g to happen. He then set about selling our best 2 players, replacing them with utterly inadequate and unsuitable players, sacked Chris Powell, failed to renew the contract of the core squad players and the rest blurs into a long and horrible time for the club and everyone. 

    Because that skidmark still owns the stuff that is actually worth something and rightly or wrongly has stuck a high price on what is valuable London Real Estate but not real estate that is worth much in real terms. This then means in theory anyone with an ok credit score can have a stab at running the club, they then discover it will cost in the region of 800k a month to run and need prolonged, ongoing cash investment and after expecting a series of managers to make a silk purse out of ginger pubic hair and being abused and held to account by a load of horrible working class fans who disgustingly feel a sense of ownership of the club and start making ruckus 


    But how did he get to own it? When I tapped out (Jimenez year(s)?) I thought the ground was owned by the borough. That was in place since the 1992 return. What changed?


    I don't think the Council ever owned the valley. There is some planning 'rule' in place that the land is to be used for sport/football. But as with all things in local planning/administration that can be changed just by waving some notes under someone's nose.
    From what I know of the history, the council has often done it's best to not help the club. Part of the reason for the valley party was because the council removed it's support for the redevelopment. Same can be seen with the recent parking shenanigans.

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    Bailey said:
    Cloudworm said:
    Right. Clearly an important point which has put us, as a club, in the bargain bin. What I missed was how The Valley ever went from the ownership of Greenwich borough to RD? Please help us out.. 
    When did Greenwich Borough own Charlton Athletic ???
    They didn't.

    Fyi @Cloudworm the ground has always been owned by the owner. In 2019 ESI did a deal with Roland to buy the "club" (basically the name & the rights to play in the EFL) for the princely sum of.......£1. 

    Yes. £1. Basically ESI bought the loss making part & Roland kept the assets (The Valley & the Training Ground). 

    The rest, as they say, is history.
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    seth plum said:
    Fans are expected to attend, to sing, to cheer and show passion.
    Players can’t have it both ways, if they accept adulation when successful they can expect condemnation when they fail.

    I agree. My point is that the distinction often made in fan attitudes, whether they be positive or negative minded, is of no consequence to our position as a club, so a  meaningless one. We all want to win, and all hurt when we don't. There's no club within a club existing in the support base as we have the same shared aspirations.
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    seth plum said:
    One of the heroes of the day was @Leuth of this parish who walked walked from Camberwell to Brisbane road to see that load of rubbish today.
    Gets a 10 on the post match marks thread in my opinion.
    I walked it from Penge. 12 miles. The walk was lovely. I thought it was golf that was a good walk spoiled. Turns out it's Charlton Athletic who spoil a good walk. 
    Top quality effort.
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    Agree with the comments above and echo thoughts  @Fanny Fanackapan and @Braziliance.

    I want to add a comment or two about our talented academy products. I remember being really impressed with Anderson, Assimwe, T Campbell and Kanu in those opening games of the season under Holden. I think Kanu was joint top scorer (with two)  for a while before being sent out on loan.

    It is one thing for our club to be dire against poor opposition but another scale of incompetence to ruin the future of the club.  These young players are having their confidence shattered. MBick put on wing and then dropped and now Kanu being sacrificed in some childish dispute between coach and that idiot Scott. Anyone know what Scott's salary is by the way? 

    Hats off to Kanu who kept going while playing out of position with no encouragement or support from the coach or the senior pros. 

    There was one moment when Kanu was battling away on the edge of the Orient box and got dragged over and won a free kick (the one from which May drove it wide, I think). Not one Charlton player helped him up or gave him a pat on the back or a had a quick word, Nothing at all from this spineless shower to encourage a young academy player giving it his all. That really stinks. 


    What's the story about Kanu and a "childish dispute"- genuine question. Did puzzle me why he went out on loan with 3 goals already scored.
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    Bailey said:
    Dazzler21 said:
    I didn't see us today, but what formation were we? 

    Is it a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1 either way it leaves Alfie isolated when up top and when out wide. He's not a winger.
    Alfie May was played as a centre forward today Dazzler, in exactly the position that posters on here have been calling for. . 
    I don’t think anyone wanted Alfie May to be played isolated against two 6ft 5 centre halves and have the ball pumped in the air the whole game 
    Exactly why you don't play him there, but if you look back at the posts that is exactly where they wanted him to play. It also highlights the fact that May's best position is off the centre forward, proved by the success he had when playing at the top of the midfield, but that was when we had Chuks as our centre forward. It's really basic but this team is lacking in a key area, it's not been addressed since Stockley left and until it is then we are on the slide. 
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    I listen a point away from home ain't all that bad fellas. At least we didn't lose COYRs
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Roland Out Forever!