The reason there is no discipline at the club and hasn't been for 3 years is because the players know the manager isn't actually in charge of anything.
If he upsets them they can just down tools and wait for them to be sacked.
That's the root of it and has been the case since the international break before we played Gillingham away under Bowyer.
And that is different at other Clubs ? Since Bosman the power is with players but I don't believe its worse at cafc than other clubs but when on a losing run all the boils burst and it's not a pretty site. The pus hits the fans.
Perhaps we need to analyse how Luton, Coventry and Bournemouth managed to come back from the National League in Luton's case and League 2 in Coventry and Bournemouth's case.
The manager had/has no power at the club due the ownership/SMT. If the players go crying to Thomas/Martin/Andy/Charlie it is the manager that gets the chop.
And you think managers have Carte Blanche at other clubs !
The majority of managers are really head coaches and the truth is most managers are Interim managers until the sack comes.
We are in a mess on and off the field and that's why I'm interested in how the likes of Coventry, Luton and Bournemouth came back from a worse position than Cafc are in now.
Any common denominator with those 3 clubs other than Bournemouth had a superb young Coach in Eddie Howe who took them from League 2 to the Premier playing easy on the eye football. Howe had an 18 month break at Burnley with mid table finishes during this period before the prodigal son returned home.
I don't believe any of the 3 clubs I mentioned had big budgets to start their journey back and questionable, if they were stable off the pitch ?
What is the remit for Andy Scott and the new head coach incumbent ? To advance to the Championship while selling a couple of the better youngsters ? Not really that different since the 1960's onwards when staying in the championship and selling players appeared to be the aim.
What do fans of his past clubs think of him, both good and bad? I don't think he's poorly regarded amongst his peers, but he's used to experiencing negativity from fans of clubs that appoint him at first. He can only change that by delivering results, but asking him to win the next eight or nine games to win you over is a high bar Seth 😉
I think I'd take us not losing the next as a positive sign of things to come as things stand. The Club certainly needs to get lucky and turn a different corner with whoever takes the job for so many reasons.
Oxford fans rate him after he got them promoted from league two.
Apparently he is good at working with young players and prem clubs trust him to develop youngsters they loan out……but I can’t think of any good examples that he coached at Oxford!
The reason there is no discipline at the club and hasn't been for 3 years is because the players know the manager isn't actually in charge of anything.
If he upsets them they can just down tools and wait for them to be sacked.
That's the root of it and has been the case since the international break before we played Gillingham away under Bowyer.
And that is different at other Clubs ? Since Bosman the power is with players but I don't believe its worse at cafc than other clubs but when on a losing run all the boils burst and it's not a pretty site. The pus hits the fans.
Perhaps we need to analyse how Luton, Coventry and Bournemouth managed to come back from the National League in Luton's case and League 2 in Coventry and Bournemouth's case.
I expect they kept their manager & a nucleus of players as they went through the leagues. Isn't there a Luton player who has played in every division for them ?
Compare that to us who have had 4 managers in 3 years and have got rid of nearly all of the players we signed last summer !!
Underwhelmed as per our last few appointments, will support the team no matter what. We can’t forget we’re no better than a mid table league one team (at a push) so we’ve hardly got lines of top tier managers wanting the job. We’ve had more public rejections than those who are keen for the role. I hope I’m proved wrong, but yet to be as history repeats itself.
I don’t really know much about Appleton other than THAT photo, but it’s funny record he has. Fair play to him, he’s very good at picking up work so he must be approachable and have a pretty good name in the game that others want to work with.
For someone who is surprisingly still only 47 he’s packed a lot in. Ex pro retired early through injury, done youth team coaching, reserves, assistant manager and a fair bit of experience as manager between L2 and Champ. As always it seems now, there’s an Oxford link, where he had his most successful couple of seasons.
So many of his appointments though just don’t last longer than 6 months max (couple of them just 2 months), that’s a worry for a club like us that really needs stability. It’s only Lincoln (3yrs), Oxford (3yrs) and Portsmouth (just under 12 months) that have any real experience of him imposing his style and mark on a team.
Overcome testicular cancer two years ago.
Don’t know what to make of him tbh. I don’t think he’d be a disaster appointment but I’m equally not seeing anything that will galvanise supporters or feel ‘we’ve done well getting him’.
As much as I didn't think that Holden could turn this rabble into title contenders, I doubt that whoever comes in will achieve any better success. I will be very surprised if we finish higher than last season, especially with the catch up required. We already need a 6-7th place run of form through the season to achieve 8-10th spot.
Despite all of this gnashing of teeth about this manager or that, I don't have much faith in the squad, so the manager coming in would probably feel the same, apart from getting paid £100k+ to explore yet more of the permitations of an awful defence.
Slight side note, I worked in a basket case local authority and a new manager came in as head of service, with much said prior about their experience and precious CV in jobs at a higher level. After 1 week, they announced that they could not remain in post as the department was in such disarray that they refused to have their reputation sullied.
I fear that Charlton are at that level, where the only candidates are those with nothing to lose (on their way up) or unemployed (on their way down) and nobody wanted them as they would already be back in employment such is the football manager merry-go-round.
When is it our turn, to get owners that buy players and managers from a successful team above our own level, therfore showing intent with their wallets?
I take a lot of these stats with a pinch of salt tbh - what sort of playing staff were available, did owners interfere, how good or bad were the stats for the club before manager x arrived or left?
The squad isn't good enough The new owners got rid of their own man less than a month into the season We have some promising youngsters Defensively we are terrible We are out of two cup competitions Andy Scott has say over who you can and can't sign We appear to not have significant budget to overhaul a mid table league one squad
The squad isn't good enough The new owners got rid of their own man less than a month into the season We have some promising youngsters Defensively we are terrible We are out of two cup competitions Andy Scott has say over who you can and can't sign We appear to not have significant budget to overhaul a mid table league one squad
That's not attractive on paper
Correction the manager / Coach still has major say in recruitment working with Andy Scott …. And we do have sufficient funds but not wasting it on over priced league one and two players .. we will look again in Jan
The plan was to sack Holden and not get a replacement at all. It saves money. Consulting fees don’t pay themselves eh Charlie? I doubt if nobody wants the job, there are plenty of pub team Sunday league managers in South East London. They might manage Charlton as part of the gig economy on a minimum wage. After all Charlie flying to away matches is the priority for our resources.
i haven't checked if these stats are legit but not great are they?
They're not bad either and no worse than many other names appearing on here who are considered preferable.
Still no feedback quoted about him from fans of the clubs he's spent most time with in L1, Oxford and Lincoln, where his stats are best and achieved over a longer period.
I thought we liked to take note of the views of others sets of supporters!
The squad isn't good enough The new owners got rid of their own man less than a month into the season We have some promising youngsters Defensively we are terrible We are out of two cup competitions Andy Scott has say over who you can and can't sign We appear to not have significant budget to overhaul a mid table league one squad
That's not attractive on paper
We’re still in the pizza cup!
+ Appleton has got to Wembley twice in that competition.
Wembley day out is still possible if we beat Sutton & villa’s kids.
i haven't checked if these stats are legit but not great are they?
The Oxford and Lincoln ones are the relevant ones Pompey we're in admin, Blackpool were imploding under the Oystens, the chicken people were going through a "spell" at Blackburn.
The reason there is no discipline at the club and hasn't been for 3 years is because the players know the manager isn't actually in charge of anything.
If he upsets them they can just down tools and wait for them to be sacked.
That's the root of it and has been the case since the international break before we played Gillingham away under Bowyer.
And that is different at other Clubs ? Since Bosman the power is with players but I don't believe its worse at cafc than other clubs but when on a losing run all the boils burst and it's not a pretty site. The pus hits the fans.
Perhaps we need to analyse how Luton, Coventry and Bournemouth managed to come back from the National League in Luton's case and League 2 in Coventry and Bournemouth's case.
The manager had/has no power at the club due the ownership/SMT. If the players go crying to Thomas/Martin/Andy/Charlie it is the manager that gets the chop.
And you think managers have Carte Blanche at other clubs !
The majority of managers are really head coaches and the truth is most managers are Interim managers until the sack comes.
We are in a mess on and off the field and that's why I'm interested in how the likes of Coventry, Luton and Bournemouth came back from a worse position than Cafc are in now.
Any common denominator with those 3 clubs other than Bournemouth had a superb young Coach in Eddie Howe who took them from League 2 to the Premier playing easy on the eye football. Howe had an 18 month break at Burnley with mid table finishes during this period before the prodigal son returned home.
I don't believe any of the 3 clubs I mentioned had big budgets to start their journey back and questionable, if they were stable off the pitch ?
What is the remit for Andy Scott and the new head coach incumbent ? To advance to the Championship while selling a couple of the better youngsters ? Not really that different since the 1960's onwards when staying in the championship and selling players appeared to be the aim.
Agree with you, though would like to make the point it's not the selling of youngsters to make ends meet that's the key issue "per se". We were still selling Academy products to make ends meet in the seasons running up to promotion to the Prem in 1998. It's true we also had a one-off key influx of new cash (from the AIM float), which we "borrowed from" (it was ostensibly to fund ground development) that funded Curbs' purchase of Mendonca, that of course sealed the deal. But we were still fundamentally a "selling club". Also, we've never been able to stop bigger clubs from luring progressive talent away (even when at our peak in the Prem!). It's when we sell them that's the issue now. If CM is good for his word (I know that's a big "if"), their plan is to hang on long enough to Academy products to sell them at a time that optimises their value to CAFC, not (as is usually the case) at the point there's a desperate need for a cash injection. That suggests that the owners are prepared to make working capital available to fund recurring deficits and, in truth, they could probably have sold Leaburn in the window if they were the penny-pinchers they're being accused of. If that is their game-plan, there is a realistic chance IMO to advance to the Championship while selling (we may have no choice with Leaburn anyway at the end of this season). Of course, no guarantees - the new manager's appointment, better coaching, players' fitness and returns from injury and the winter window are crucial.
i haven't checked if these stats are legit but not great are they?
The Oxford and Lincoln ones are the relevant ones Pompey we're in admin, Blackpool were imploding under the Oystens, the chicken people were going through a "spell" at Blackburn.
It's not great even then though.
The "chicken people" made me laugh more than it should.
I think this appointment is much more about who is willing to do it than who the club wants.
Regardless of the shenanigans that have gone on recently, we will still be an attractive proposition to many managers
Many out of work managers who can't get a job
There is, but it’s not going to be a good look if/when the club employs an out of work manager when Methven’s PR machine has been leaking that they’re targeting in-work candidates.
Comments
And you think managers have Carte Blanche at other clubs !
The majority of managers are really head coaches and the truth is most managers are Interim managers until the sack comes.
We are in a mess on and off the field and that's why I'm interested in how the likes of Coventry, Luton and Bournemouth came back from a worse position than Cafc are in now.
Any common denominator with those 3 clubs other than Bournemouth had a superb young Coach in Eddie Howe who took them from League 2 to the Premier playing easy on the eye football. Howe had an 18 month break at Burnley with mid table finishes during this period before the prodigal son returned home.
I don't believe any of the 3 clubs I mentioned had big budgets to start their journey back and questionable, if they were stable off the pitch ?
What is the remit for Andy Scott and the new head coach incumbent ? To advance to the Championship while selling a couple of the better youngsters ?
Not really that different since the 1960's onwards when staying in the championship and selling players appeared to be the aim.
Apparently he is good at working with young players and prem clubs trust him to develop youngsters they loan out……but I can’t think of any good examples that he coached at Oxford!
Had Charlie Patino from Arsenal and Ian Poveda from Leeds last season at Blackpool too so he's clearly well thought of by the big prem clubs
Howe, Robins and Nathan Jones 👏
For someone who is surprisingly still only 47 he’s packed a lot in. Ex pro retired early through injury, done youth team coaching, reserves, assistant manager and a fair bit of experience as manager between L2 and Champ. As always it seems now, there’s an Oxford link, where he had his most successful couple of seasons.
Don’t know what to make of him tbh. I don’t think he’d be a disaster appointment but I’m equally not seeing anything that will galvanise supporters or feel ‘we’ve done well getting him’.
Despite all of this gnashing of teeth about this manager or that, I don't have much faith in the squad, so the manager coming in would probably feel the same, apart from getting paid £100k+ to explore yet more of the permitations of an awful defence.
Slight side note, I worked in a basket case local authority and a new manager came in as head of service, with much said prior about their experience and precious CV in jobs at a higher level. After 1 week, they announced that they could not remain in post as the department was in such disarray that they refused to have their reputation sullied.
I fear that Charlton are at that level, where the only candidates are those with nothing to lose (on their way up) or unemployed (on their way down) and nobody wanted them as they would already be back in employment such is the football manager merry-go-round.
When is it our turn, to get owners that buy players and managers from a successful team above our own level, therfore showing intent with their wallets?
The squad isn't good enough
The new owners got rid of their own man less than a month into the season
We have some promising youngsters
Defensively we are terrible
We are out of two cup competitions
Andy Scott has say over who you can and can't sign
We appear to not have significant budget to overhaul a mid table league one squad
That's not attractive on paper
If he hires Appleton then he’s hiring exactly that.
Don’t rule out Mark Warburton either
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/every-man-utd-denzil-haroun-reserve-team-player-of-the-year-award-winner
It saves money.
Consulting fees don’t pay themselves eh Charlie?
I doubt if nobody wants the job, there are plenty of pub team Sunday league managers in South East London. They might manage Charlton as part of the gig economy on a minimum wage.
After all Charlie flying to away matches is the priority for our resources.
Still no feedback quoted about him from fans of the clubs he's spent most time with in L1, Oxford and Lincoln, where his stats are best and achieved over a longer period.
I thought we liked to take note of the views of others sets of supporters!
+ Appleton has got to Wembley twice in that competition.
Wembley day out is still possible if we beat Sutton & villa’s kids.
It's not great even then though.
Agree with you, though would like to make the point it's not the selling of youngsters to make ends meet that's the key issue "per se".
We were still selling Academy products to make ends meet in the seasons running up to promotion to the Prem in 1998. It's true we also had a one-off key influx of new cash (from the AIM float), which we "borrowed from" (it was ostensibly to fund ground development) that funded Curbs' purchase of Mendonca, that of course sealed the deal. But we were still fundamentally a "selling club".
Also, we've never been able to stop bigger clubs from luring progressive talent away (even when at our peak in the Prem!).
It's when we sell them that's the issue now.
If CM is good for his word (I know that's a big "if"), their plan is to hang on long enough to Academy products to sell them at a time that optimises their value to CAFC, not (as is usually the case) at the point there's a desperate need for a cash injection.
That suggests that the owners are prepared to make working capital available to fund recurring deficits and, in truth, they could probably have sold Leaburn in the window if they were the penny-pinchers they're being accused of.
If that is their game-plan, there is a realistic chance IMO to advance to the Championship while selling (we may have no choice with Leaburn anyway at the end of this season).
Of course, no guarantees - the new manager's appointment, better coaching, players' fitness and returns from injury and the winter window are crucial.
I think our apparent difficulty in getting responses from anyone other than out of work league one "old boys" says otherwise.
Yes we will be appealing still to a certain type of manager but not the type we actually want to appeal to.
I really want us to have a playing style identity. I actually enjoyed the playing style under Garner but I guess I'm on my own in that respect.