Sounds like Arsenal are recalling a young centre back Zech Medley on loan to Gillingham as he hasn't been getting in the team....
They recalled him a couple of weeks ago and he looks like a very decent prospect tbf. Whether he is what we are looking for remains to be seen but he is certainly not a bad player
He was recalled from Gillingham because he couldn't get in their team and he is good enough for us?
I don’t read too much into the ‘how many goals and assists’ argument, as it’s a bit too simplistic a way of debating a player of Williams’ role.
If we had strikers that could finish better, then Williams’ assist rate would be much higher.
If Williams wasn’t left on the bench so often, then his numbers would be higher.
A player of his quality in League One is very, very rare and I think Bowyer has to take responsibility for not getting the best out of that opportunity. The team should have been built around him this season, but nope, all about Pratley.
You can blame players around him for his lack of goal contributions but when you see Purrington has twice as many goals in 20 less games I think your argument goes out the window.
Not really. My argument was that using goals/assists as the only metric to judge a player is too simplistic.
Because Ben Purrington might have scored a couple more tap-ins than Jonny Williams doesn’t mean he has been a better or more effective player for us.
We know Williams has the ability - but it seems completely nullified in the way Bowyer has had us playing in the last few months.
Sounds like Arsenal are recalling a young centre back Zech Medley on loan to Gillingham as he hasn't been getting in the team....
They recalled him a couple of weeks ago and he looks like a very decent prospect tbf. Whether he is what we are looking for remains to be seen but he is certainly not a bad player
He was recalled from Gillingham because he couldn't get in their team and he is good enough for us?
Did I say he was good enough for us? He has some potential but I have questioned if someone of his age and inexperience fits the bill
If Williams goes we will sign Shinnie on a free on a 6 month contract.
1 loan, 1 under 21 perm.
Why would we do this... Luton are paying 80% of his wages.
If they agree to pay him what they are paying anyway, it frees up a spot for another loan
If this is possible under the rules of the cap then great, I was under the impression it wasnt
But let's say Shinnie has 20 weeks left on his contract and Luton are paying him 5k a week, they will be paying him 100k regardless. They could offer him 80k to tear his contract up and then he sign for us on heavily reduced wages, a bit like Palace did with Williams.
It's been mentioned on here by a few people that we pay X amount to Luton who pay Shinnie Y as a golden handshake. I don't think that will be legally possible under the cap because that payment from Luton would be outside of his contract. But I can see Luton paying Shinnie off because they're paying a contribution of his wages anyway.
I don’t read too much into the ‘how many goals and assists’ argument, as it’s a bit too simplistic a way of debating a player of Williams’ role.
If we had strikers that could finish better, then Williams’ assist rate would be much higher.
If Williams wasn’t left on the bench so often, then his numbers would be higher.
A player of his quality in League One is very, very rare and I think Bowyer has to take responsibility for not getting the best out of that opportunity. The team should have been built around him this season, but nope, all about Pratley.
Firstly, and possibly to his detriment depending on your point of view, I don't think that Bowyer believes in building a team around anyone.
Secondly, you can't build a team around a player who spends as much time injured as Williams is. Can you imagine the backlash if he had and Williams got crocked?
If a team is built around the most gifted player in the squad then chances are you find yourself winning more games than we have been lately, and higher up the table.
I doubt there would have been a ‘backlash’ had that player then got injured - that’s just one of those things. That’s just a case of knowing how to have a Plan B.
One of the biggest criticisms of our set up so far this season is that we don’t really know what Plan A is...
If Williams goes we will sign Shinnie on a free on a 6 month contract.
1 loan, 1 under 21 perm.
Why would we do this... Luton are paying 80% of his wages.
If they agree to pay him what they are paying anyway, it frees up a spot for another loan
If this is possible under the rules of the cap then great, I was under the impression it wasnt
Right if we make a bid for Shinnie of £100 to Luton and they say yes, he is out of contract anyway so no problem.
We then say Mr Shinnie, we would like to offer you 1.7k (William's cap salary). He replies I am very sorry Mr Bowyer but Luton are paying me 4.5k a week and have to until the end of the season, I can't accept that.
We ring Luton and say we are really sorry we can't agree personal terms, deal is off. We are about 60k short on a 20 week contract.
They ring Mr Shinnie and say, look aren't going to play here, nor get a new contract what can we do to smooth the transfer over? I would like to stay at Charlton Mr Jones, if you could compensate me for ending my contract early I am sure I could agree terms. If you pay you £60k would you consider the offer they made?
Yes I would, thank you very much Mr Jones. Steve, its Nathan, give us 60k, not £100 and the deal is good to go.
I can't see how Charlton could be seen to be at fault here. Clubs pay up contracts, pay loyalty bonuses for players to leave, all sorts. The big clubs some times end up playing players fortunes to do one.
I don’t read too much into the ‘how many goals and assists’ argument, as it’s a bit too simplistic a way of debating a player of Williams’ role.
If we had strikers that could finish better, then Williams’ assist rate would be much higher.
If Williams wasn’t left on the bench so often, then his numbers would be higher.
It really seems like it's never Johnny's fault.
I’d agree with the suggestion that he hasn’t been in blistering form for us, but I just think that the haphazard way we’ve tried to use him this season is a massive missed opportunity.
I’d be saying the fault lied squarely with Johnny, if he was starting every game and delivering poor performances every week.
But the truth is that we’ve got a lot of very talented players in this squad, and hardly any have pulled up any trees against expectations. Have they all just been bad? Or is it the fact that the common denominator is the way they’ve been managed?
If Williams goes we will sign Shinnie on a free on a 6 month contract.
1 loan, 1 under 21 perm.
Why would we do this... Luton are paying 80% of his wages.
If they agree to pay him what they are paying anyway, it frees up a spot for another loan
If this is possible under the rules of the cap then great, I was under the impression it wasnt
But let's say Shinnie has 20 weeks left on his contract and Luton are paying him 5k a week, they will be paying him 100k regardless. They could offer him 80k to tear his contract up and then he sign for us on heavily reduced wages, a bit like Palace did with Williams.
It's been mentioned on here by a few people that we pay X amount to Luton who pay Shinnie Y as a golden handshake. I don't think that will be legally possible under the cap because that payment from Luton would be outside of his contract. But I can see Luton paying Shinnie off because they're paying a contribution of his wages anyway.
Surely Luton can pay Shinnie what they like as a leaving present? They're not affected by salary caps, while HMRC couldn't care less as it's not a tax dodge
If Williams goes we will sign Shinnie on a free on a 6 month contract.
1 loan, 1 under 21 perm.
Why would we do this... Luton are paying 80% of his wages.
If they agree to pay him what they are paying anyway, it frees up a spot for another loan
If this is possible under the rules of the cap then great, I was under the impression it wasnt
But let's say Shinnie has 20 weeks left on his contract and Luton are paying him 5k a week, they will be paying him 100k regardless. They could offer him 80k to tear his contract up and then he sign for us on heavily reduced wages, a bit like Palace did with Williams.
It's been mentioned on here by a few people that we pay X amount to Luton who pay Shinnie Y as a golden handshake. I don't think that will be legally possible under the cap because that payment from Luton would be outside of his contract. But I can see Luton paying Shinnie off because they're paying a contribution of his wages anyway.
Surely Luton can pay Shinnie what they like as a leaving present? They're not affected by salary caps, while HMRC couldn't care less as it's not a tax dodge
The termination of the contract has got to be mutually agreed, one side can't unilaterally cancel it. Its normally agreed by one side receiving some sort of payment.
Of course they could just pay him up, without any input from us as they are paying him 80% of it anyway.
Sounds like Arsenal are recalling a young centre back Zech Medley on loan to Gillingham as he hasn't been getting in the team....
They recalled him a couple of weeks ago and he looks like a very decent prospect tbf. Whether he is what we are looking for remains to be seen but he is certainly not a bad player
He was recalled from Gillingham because he couldn't get in their team and he is good enough for us?
Did I say he was good enough for us? He has some potential but I have questioned if someone of his age and inexperience fits the bill
I was asking, hence the question mark, I assumed as his name was mentioned on here it was a suggestion/rumour/guess that he may come here?
I don’t read too much into the ‘how many goals and assists’ argument, as it’s a bit too simplistic a way of debating a player of Williams’ role.
If we had strikers that could finish better, then Williams’ assist rate would be much higher.
If Williams wasn’t left on the bench so often, then his numbers would be higher.
A player of his quality in League One is very, very rare and I think Bowyer has to take responsibility for not getting the best out of that opportunity. The team should have been built around him this season, but nope, all about Pratley.
Firstly, and possibly to his detriment depending on your point of view, I don't think that Bowyer believes in building a team around anyone.
Secondly, you can't build a team around a player who spends as much time injured as Williams is. Can you imagine the backlash if he had and Williams got crocked?
If a team is built around the most gifted player in the squad then chances are you find yourself winning more games than we have been lately, and higher up the table.
I doubt there would have been a ‘backlash’ had that player then got injured - that’s just one of those things. That’s just a case of knowing how to have a Plan B.
One of the biggest criticisms of our set up so far this season is that we don’t really know what Plan A is...
We knew what Plan A was, 4-3-3, keeping it tight defensively with Pratley and Watson in the middle and Doughty’s pace on the counter. When Doughty got injured we had no replacement, Smyth was nowhere near as threatening.
i reckon the stoke defender is the more likely way round it - we agree a fee for doughty but on the proviso that we sign the defender - stoke pay the defender a lump £200k as a leaving present / deal - or effectively pay up his remaining contract - however it needs to be done and this acts as a supplement to his wages that are capped in league 1. If we get him and a league 1 winger on say £3k a week and williams wages of say £6k a week are offloaded, then its job done. i have no idea who the cb or winger are but this would all seem to make sense
If Williams goes we will sign Shinnie on a free on a 6 month contract.
1 loan, 1 under 21 perm.
Why would we do this... Luton are paying 80% of his wages.
If they agree to pay him what they are paying anyway, it frees up a spot for another loan
I've been wondering how you could "bend" the rules over this, when dealing with a club not affected by the cap
If he is on 5000 a week, then his wage cost for the 5 months to the end of June would be say £110k (£150k including NI etc)
We pay Luton a transfer fee of £200k. They give him a payoff of £100K.
We then pay him 1000 a week, costing us say £30k.
The £200k is a transfer fee, so not covered by the cap. The £100k payoff is paid by Luton, who aren't covered by the cap.
Peterborough apparently did this for Clarke-Harris; paid £1.6m and he got allegedly got a top up to his 'wagrs' via a payoff from Bristol Rovers... Allegedly...
I don’t read too much into the ‘how many goals and assists’ argument, as it’s a bit too simplistic a way of debating a player of Williams’ role.
If we had strikers that could finish better, then Williams’ assist rate would be much higher.
If Williams wasn’t left on the bench so often, then his numbers would be higher.
It really seems like it's never Johnny's fault.
I’d agree with the suggestion that he hasn’t been in blistering form for us, but I just think that the haphazard way we’ve tried to use him this season is a massive missed opportunity.
I’d be saying the fault lied squarely with Johnny, if he was starting every game and delivering poor performances every week.
But the truth is that we’ve got a lot of very talented players in this squad, and hardly any have pulled up any trees against expectations. Have they all just been bad? Or is it the fact that the common denominator is the way they’ve been managed?
So he needs to start every game and play badly for it to be his fault. I'd be up for sacking Bowyer if he was still starting Williams in those circumstances.
It'll be nice to have players we don't have to find excuses for.
i reckon the stoke defender is the more likely way round it - we agree a fee for doughty but on the proviso that we sign the defender - stoke pay the defender a lump £200k as a leaving present / deal - or effectively pay up his remaining contract - however it needs to be done and this acts as a supplement to his wages that are capped in league 1. If we get him and a league 1 winger on say £3k a week and williams wages of say £6k a week are offloaded, then its job done. i have no idea who the cb or winger are but this would all seem to make sense
Liam Lindsay? I think he would be a great buy and we need to be getting our own players in. How we do that SG would know, but I was surprised that we could not tie that in with the Doughty deal. Swindon said to be in for him.
i reckon the stoke defender is the more likely way round it - we agree a fee for doughty but on the proviso that we sign the defender - stoke pay the defender a lump £200k as a leaving present / deal - or effectively pay up his remaining contract - however it needs to be done and this acts as a supplement to his wages that are capped in league 1. If we get him and a league 1 winger on say £3k a week and williams wages of say £6k a week are offloaded, then its job done. i have no idea who the cb or winger are but this would all seem to make sense
Comments
Is it a 5pm or 11pm one
It's been mentioned on here by a few people that we pay X amount to Luton who pay Shinnie Y as a golden handshake. I don't think that will be legally possible under the cap because that payment from Luton would be outside of his contract. But I can see Luton paying Shinnie off because they're paying a contribution of his wages anyway.
If he is on 5000 a week, then his wage cost for the 5 months to the end of June would be say £110k (£150k including NI etc)
We pay Luton a transfer fee of £200k. They give him a payoff of £100K.
We then pay him 1000 a week, costing us say £30k.
The £200k is a transfer fee, so not covered by the cap. The £100k payoff is paid by Luton, who aren't covered by the cap.
We then say Mr Shinnie, we would like to offer you 1.7k (William's cap salary). He replies I am very sorry Mr Bowyer but Luton are paying me 4.5k a week and have to until the end of the season, I can't accept that.
We ring Luton and say we are really sorry we can't agree personal terms, deal is off. We are about 60k short on a 20 week contract.
They ring Mr Shinnie and say, look aren't going to play here, nor get a new contract what can we do to smooth the transfer over? I would like to stay at Charlton Mr Jones, if you could compensate me for ending my contract early I am sure I could agree terms. If you pay you £60k would you consider the offer they made?
Yes I would, thank you very much Mr Jones. Steve, its Nathan, give us 60k, not £100 and the deal is good to go.
I can't see how Charlton could be seen to be at fault here. Clubs pay up contracts, pay loyalty bonuses for players to leave, all sorts. The big clubs some times end up playing players fortunes to do one.
But the truth is that we’ve got a lot of very talented players in this squad, and hardly any have pulled up any trees against expectations. Have they all just been bad? Or is it the fact that the common denominator is the way they’ve been managed?
Of course they could just pay him up, without any input from us as they are paying him 80% of it anyway.
It'll be nice to have players we don't have to find excuses for.