Is there a way of signing Shinnie on a permanent deal in order to free up a load space?
As i understand it Luton are paying the majority of his wages so could we possibly buy him from them and then they give him some dough to be used as wages until the end of the season.
I'm assuming he's out of contract at the end of the season?
I'm all confused!!!
Been discussed but I just can't see it working. If we sign Shinnie permanently, we still have to pay him a weekly wage. Is that weekly wage going to be less than what we are already paying towards his wages now? I doubt it.
I think only way this works is if it's for a new signing, not one who we already have and aren't paying much for anyway.
If it helps - everything paid to players counts as "wages" under the cap, no matter what we call it eg bonus/signing on fee/fred... Otherwise the cap doesn't work at all.
Hypothetically: new club agrees transfer fee with parent club, player receives loyalty/termination/bonus/golden goodbye payment from parent club, player signs for new club on £1300/week til the end of the season. Any unwritten accommodation achieved by parent club and new club around the value and/or timing of the termination payment(s) almost certainly outwith EFL rules. The opportunity for the 'transfer fee' to be routed around to the player via parent club from buying club when it is essentially disguised wages is obvious "it's not wages, honest guv"
Is there a way of signing Shinnie on a permanent deal in order to free up a load space?
As i understand it Luton are paying the majority of his wages so could we possibly buy him from them and then they give him some dough to be used as wages until the end of the season.
I'm assuming he's out of contract at the end of the season?
I'm all confused!!!
Yes we could.
Do we need another short term player? We have 2 for each position as it stands. What we don't have is enough long term players that are good enough.
Signing Shinnie, now on an 18 month contract might not be the best thing to do.
If we bring in another player at all I would like someone that's potentially going to be here a while and grow with us. Unless of course you can get a "silly good loan" that would obviously improve us massively.
Agree with this, Shinnie has shown some nice touches but he’s no spring chicken and I know he’s just come back from injury but he looks a bit pedestrian to me. Need to see a lot more from him if we are to sign him on a perm.
Just to clarify for the lollers, Shinnie has played 11 games was out injured for 8 and came on as sub v Pboro and cocked up for their 2nd goal. He was also blowing out of his arse 2nd half tracking back v Swindon which also nearly cost us. Took his goal well though. My point being let’s make sure that injury has not had a negative effect on this 31 year old before we consider making him permanent like the OP suggested.
Yup and do we want him if we go up and do we want another 30+ year old taking up valuable wages if we don't.
We look to have some wiggle room now so unless it freed up a loan space for someone that was so good we couldn't not sign them it's a no for me.
the only area that should be focused on is centre back IF it's 10pm Monday 1 Feb, no able defenders are available And a non-defensive player is available who is 1) better than we have 2) match fit 3) accepting <=£1300/wk then signing him could make sense. Anything else is daft. Chances of the above scenario approx = SqRootofFuckAll
the only area that should be focused on is centre back IF it's 10pm Monday 1 Feb, no able defenders are available And a non-defensive player is available who is 1) better than we have 2) match fit 3) accepting <=£1300/wk then signing him could make sense. Anything else is daft. Chances of the above scenario approx = SqRootofFuckAll
the only area that should be focused on is centre back IF it's 10pm Monday 1 Feb, no able defenders are available And a non-defensive player is available who is 1) better than we have 2) match fit 3) accepting <=£1300/wk then signing him could make sense. Anything else is daft. Chances of the above scenario approx = SqRootofFuckAll
Window closes at 11pm.
The window doesn't only close at 11pm, it slams shut!
Booting out Lapslie, Smyth & Bogle indicates how tough it is to be a football manager. Gotta be a tough nut. I expect Bowyer liked all three of them, especially Lapslie.
We have to assume that Bogle going means at least one more, maybe two are coming in.
I’m hopeful but I’m not making that assumption. Bogle was always going to leave once we had signed Stockley. It was just the in before the out because we had to move fast.
Booting out Lapslie, Smyth & Bogle indicates how tough it is to be a football manager. Gotta be a tough nut. I expect Bowyer liked all three of them, especially Lapslie.
We didn’t have to get rid of Lapslie now though. He wasn’t counting towards the cap so I am slightly surprised we got rid now, rather than seeing if his good form at Mansfield continued. Bowyer probably liked him as a person but clearly didn’t think he could play a part in League 1 next season either.
Booting out Lapslie, Smyth & Bogle indicates how tough it is to be a football manager. Gotta be a tough nut. I expect Bowyer liked all three of them, especially Lapslie.
We didn’t have to get rid of Lapslie now though. He wasn’t counting towards the cap so I am slightly surprised we got rid now, rather than seeing if his good form at Mansfield continued. Bowyer probably liked him as a person but clearly didn’t think he could play a part in League 1 next season either.
Lapo wanted the move, he wanted to play as much as possible and he was getting to play in a more advanced role at Mansfield. I suspect he'll look really good for the rest of the season there and put himself in the shop window for a move back up to League 1 with somewhere closer to London/SE England in the next couple of years.
We have to assume that Bogle going means at least one more, maybe two are coming in.
I’m hopeful but I’m not making that assumption. Bogle was always going to leave once we had signed Stockley. It was just the in before the out because we had to move fast.
Yes, but he could have dug in and refused to go so it would have been a risk signing Stockley until he went. That is why I think this must be to free up room for a different signing/s.
At the end of the day, if Gilbey and Maddison were to play to their obvious full ability, and Schwartz could get fully fit, apart from defence cover, I honestly do not feel the need for any other players, but what is the chance of that?
Is there a way of signing Shinnie on a permanent deal in order to free up a load space?
As i understand it Luton are paying the majority of his wages so could we possibly buy him from them and then they give him some dough to be used as wages until the end of the season.
I'm assuming he's out of contract at the end of the season?
I'm all confused!!!
It would be useful if we could do that with Shinnie, but I can't see it happening or being legal.
We need to free up a bit more salary if we want a decent, experienced player in though... (the below is total assumption on salaries, but weirdly fits about right!)
The cap is £48,076.92 a week or £2.5m a year, I make it that if Bogle was on £3k a week we have about £1k a week to play with if we're paying £2k a week for using Stockley. (Some loans may be cheaper - Famewo and Shinnie prime examples, some Perms may be overestimated too!)
Famewo doesn’t count in the cap.
We’re not paying anywhere near that for Shinnie.
Unless we're paying nothing for Famewo he does count against the cap.
He was born in 1998 and the cut off point for u21s are players born on 01/01/1999 onwards.
Is there a way of signing Shinnie on a permanent deal in order to free up a load space?
As i understand it Luton are paying the majority of his wages so could we possibly buy him from them and then they give him some dough to be used as wages until the end of the season.
I'm assuming he's out of contract at the end of the season?
I'm all confused!!!
It would be useful if we could do that with Shinnie, but I can't see it happening or being legal.
We need to free up a bit more salary if we want a decent, experienced player in though... (the below is total assumption on salaries, but weirdly fits about right!)
The cap is £48,076.92 a week or £2.5m a year, I make it that if Bogle was on £3k a week we have about £1k a week to play with if we're paying £2k a week for using Stockley. (Some loans may be cheaper - Famewo and Shinnie prime examples, some Perms may be overestimated too!)
Famewo doesn’t count in the cap.
We’re not paying anywhere near that for Shinnie.
Unless we're paying nothing for Famewo he does count against the cap.
He was born in 1998 and the cut off point for u21s are players born on 01/01/1999 onwards.
It was said some time ago, Steve Gallen, maybe? ........ that Famewo costs us £1,300pw, which was the maximum we were permitted to pay during our ESI 'hard embargo' in September, compared to the 'soft embargo' that we were given from last January.
Now whether there has been any change in the amount we now pay Famewo, I don't know. But I should think the player's Norwich contract pays more that and Norwich pay the difference.
Booting out Lapslie, Smyth & Bogle indicates how tough it is to be a football manager. Gotta be a tough nut. I expect Bowyer liked all three of them, especially Lapslie.
We didn’t have to get rid of Lapslie now though. He wasn’t counting towards the cap so I am slightly surprised we got rid now, rather than seeing if his good form at Mansfield continued. Bowyer probably liked him as a person but clearly didn’t think he could play a part in League 1 next season either.
Lapo wanted the move, he wanted to play as much as possible and he was getting to play in a more advanced role at Mansfield. I suspect he'll look really good for the rest of the season there and put himself in the shop window for a move back up to League 1 with somewhere closer to London/SE England in the next couple of years.
But he already had the move. I don’t think he pushed to leave at all personally.
We have to assume that Bogle going means at least one more, maybe two are coming in.
I’m hopeful but I’m not making that assumption. Bogle was always going to leave once we had signed Stockley. It was just the in before the out because we had to move fast.
Yes, but he could have dug in and refused to go so it would have been a risk signing Stockley until he went. That is why I think this must be to free up room for a different signing/s.
Maybe. Together with Smyth leaving we might be able to squeeze one more over 21.
At the end of the day, if Gilbey and Maddison were to play to their obvious full ability, and Schwartz could get fully fit, apart from defence cover, I honestly do not feel the need for any other players, but what is the chance of that?
I've got a question regarding the wage cap. It's probably been answered somewhere else.
For argument sake let's use Plymouth player Luke Jephcott and let's assume his contract runs out June 2022. Say he is currently on 6k a week, a figure agreed before the changes in wage cap. Then they wanted to extend his contract until 2025 on his current pay of 6k a week, but it would mean it would push Plymouths annual budget outside the 2.5m pay cap, would he then have to take a pay cut?
Of course this is all hypothetical, but will there will be lots players taking forced pay cuts?
I've got a question regarding the wage cap. It's probably been answered somewhere else.
For argument sake let's use Plymouth player Luke Jephcott and let's assume his contract runs out June 2022. Say he is currently on 6k a week, a figure agreed before the changes in wage cap. Then they wanted to extend his contract until 2025 on his current pay of 6k a week, but it would mean it would push Plymouths annual budget outside the 2.5m pay cap, would he then have to take a pay cut?
Of course this is all hypothetical, but will there will be lots players taking forced pay cuts?
No you can't force players to take pay cuts. In the example you gave, if Plymouth went above the cap, they will either have to offload players, negotiate new contracts with lower wages or they will face sanctions.
I've got a question regarding the wage cap. It's probably been answered somewhere else.
For argument sake let's use Plymouth player Luke Jephcott and let's assume his contract runs out June 2022. Say he is currently on 6k a week, a figure agreed before the changes in wage cap. Then they wanted to extend his contract until 2025 on his current pay of 6k a week, but it would mean it would push Plymouths annual budget outside the 2.5m pay cap, would he then have to take a pay cut?
Of course this is all hypothetical, but will there will be lots players taking forced pay cuts?
No you can't force players to take pay cuts. In the example you gave, if Plymouth went above the cap, they will either have to offload players, negotiate new contracts with lower wages or they will face sanctions.
When when the contract ends they will be forced to leave as Plymouth wouldn't be able match their current contact?
I've got a question regarding the wage cap. It's probably been answered somewhere else.
For argument sake let's use Plymouth player Luke Jephcott and let's assume his contract runs out June 2022. Say he is currently on 6k a week, a figure agreed before the changes in wage cap. Then they wanted to extend his contract until 2025 on his current pay of 6k a week, but it would mean it would push Plymouths annual budget outside the 2.5m pay cap, would he then have to take a pay cut?
Of course this is all hypothetical, but will there will be lots players taking forced pay cuts?
No you can't force players to take pay cuts. In the example you gave, if Plymouth went above the cap, they will either have to offload players, negotiate new contracts with lower wages or they will face sanctions.
When when the contract ends they will be forced to leave as Plymouth wouldn't be able match their current contact?
I've got a question regarding the wage cap. It's probably been answered somewhere else.
For argument sake let's use Plymouth player Luke Jephcott and let's assume his contract runs out June 2022. Say he is currently on 6k a week, a figure agreed before the changes in wage cap. Then they wanted to extend his contract until 2025 on his current pay of 6k a week, but it would mean it would push Plymouths annual budget outside the 2.5m pay cap, would he then have to take a pay cut?
Of course this is all hypothetical, but will there will be lots players taking forced pay cuts?
No you can't force players to take pay cuts. In the example you gave, if Plymouth went above the cap, they will either have to offload players, negotiate new contracts with lower wages or they will face sanctions.
When when the contract ends they will be forced to leave as Plymouth wouldn't be able match their current contact?
Yeah I suppose so. Stay on lower terms or leave for a better offer. The best players from League 1 will undoutedbly get Championship moves, players dropping down from the Prem or Championship will have to take larger cuts than previously. Just look at this season, Gunter and Watson took cuts to join us.
Comments
Otherwise the cap doesn't work at all.
Hypothetically: new club agrees transfer fee with parent club, player receives loyalty/termination/bonus/golden goodbye payment from parent club, player signs for new club on £1300/week til the end of the season. Any unwritten accommodation achieved by parent club and new club around the value and/or timing of the termination payment(s) almost certainly outwith EFL rules.
The opportunity for the 'transfer fee' to be routed around to the player via parent club from buying club when it is essentially disguised wages is obvious "it's not wages, honest guv"
We look to have some wiggle room now so unless it freed up a loan space for someone that was so good we couldn't not sign them it's a no for me.
IF it's 10pm Monday 1 Feb, no able defenders are available And a non-defensive player is available who is 1) better than we have 2) match fit 3) accepting <=£1300/wk then signing him could make sense. Anything else is daft.
Chances of the above scenario approx = SqRootofFuckAll
So everybody tells me.
He was born in 1998 and the cut off point for u21s are players born on 01/01/1999 onwards.
https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/5fed99b19589d/how-the-salary-cap-works
Now whether there has been any change in the amount we now pay Famewo, I don't know.
But I should think the player's Norwich contract pays more that and Norwich pay the difference.
For argument sake let's use Plymouth player Luke Jephcott and let's assume his contract runs out June 2022. Say he is currently on 6k a week, a figure agreed before the changes in wage cap. Then they wanted to extend his contract until 2025 on his current pay of 6k a week, but it would mean it would push Plymouths annual budget outside the 2.5m pay cap, would he then have to take a pay cut?
Of course this is all hypothetical, but will there will be lots players taking forced pay cuts?