The issue that I think many have with @rikofold 's comments here is that
a) he can't claim to be posting from a personal perspective and then spend the next ten posts talking clearly (albeit "unofficially") from the trust's perspective
and
b) that if the trust is truly supposed to be the fans focal point in leading the charge to the owners regarding change (whatever form that may take) then reading the views of someone as apologetic and softly softly as @rikofold hardly inspires as the person representing us in front of our esteemed CEO. This might be unfair as I don't believe he's ever put himself forward formally as the voice of the trust but for better or worse that's how he comes across on here
On that note, where the f*** is Steve Clarke on Charlton Life, the biggest group of Charlton fans on the internet, and arguably greater in numbers than the trust??. @razil always put himself out there on here and never hid. The absence of Steve Clarke and the Ned Flanders approach of @rikofold hardly inspires confidence in the Trust for fighting our corner.
Personally I want the owners out, but even if I favoured a more tolerant approach then the way the trust are swallowing yet more vague promises of engagement etc would be disillusioning. I half expect someone from the trust to appear outside the West Stand on Saturday saying "I hold in my hands, a piece of paper.... " (actually that's just ridiculous because that would involve the trust communicating with the fans).
Thanks for the compliment (i think) although I recall you unless I'm mistaken, and some others still found a few things to complain about
You didn't hide though and for that I respect you.
On that note - I have massive respect for @rikold putting up with all of this. Where is Steve Clarke?
Charlton Life may be "the biggest group of Charlton fans on the internet" but it the number of regular users on here (whilst still pretty astonishing) is still a huge minority of our overall support. The number demanding specific members of the Trust board log in is even fewer.
As you'll know Trust board positions are unpaid and all members have jobs (and are entitled to a semblance of a family/social life apparently) which means that our limited resources need to be allocated appropriately. Having both Steve & @rikofold tied up answering questions on Charlton Life would be a poor use of those resources and would demonstrate terrible resource management.
For the record I've had about five emails in the last 24 hours from Steve on Trust related stuff so believe me he's extremely engaged in non-Charlton Life activity which sounds like the right call to me.
Having read through this thread, I ha e decided that the Trust is a waste of time. Apparently, we shouldn't protest because the club know we are unhappy. Surely, they only know that because we DID protest ?!
The issue that I think many have with @rikofold 's comments here is that
a) he can't claim to be posting from a personal perspective and then spend the next ten posts talking clearly (albeit "unofficially") from the trust's perspective
and
b) that if the trust is truly supposed to be the fans focal point in leading the charge to the owners regarding change (whatever form that may take) then reading the views of someone as apologetic and softly softly as @rikofold hardly inspires as the person representing us in front of our esteemed CEO. This might be unfair as I don't believe he's ever put himself forward formally as the voice of the trust but for better or worse that's how he comes across on here
On that note, where the f*** is Steve Clarke on Charlton Life, the biggest group of Charlton fans on the internet, and arguably greater in numbers than the trust??. @razil always put himself out there on here and never hid. The absence of Steve Clarke and the Ned Flanders approach of @rikofold hardly inspires confidence in the Trust for fighting our corner.
Personally I want the owners out, but even if I favoured a more tolerant approach then the way the trust are swallowing yet more vague promises of engagement etc would be disillusioning. I half expect someone from the trust to appear outside the West Stand on Saturday saying "I hold in my hands, a piece of paper.... " (actually that's just ridiculous because that would involve the trust communicating with the fans).
Thanks for the compliment (i think) although I recall you unless I'm mistaken, and some others still found a few things to complain about
You didn't hide though and for that I respect you.
On that note - I have massive respect for @rikold putting up with all of this. Where is Steve Clarke?
Charlton Life may be "the biggest group of Charlton fans on the internet" but it the number of regular users on here (whilst still pretty astonishing) is still a huge minority of our overall support. The number demanding specific members of the Trust board log in is even fewer.
As you'll know Trust board positions are unpaid and all members have jobs (and are entitled to a semblance of a family/social life apparently) which means that our limited resources need to be allocated appropriately. Having both Steve & @rikofold tied up answering questions on Charlton Life would be a poor use of those resources and would demonstrate terrible resource management.
For the record I've had about five emails in the last 24 hours from Steve on Trust related stuff so believe me he's extremely engaged in non-Charlton Life activity which sounds like the right call to me.
That's all fair enough, and I appreciate all that and I will edit / tone down my SC comments. I shouldn't be questioning effort or commitment as I know how hard working everyone is and also how we're after the same thing - a successful club.
However I do find it hard to know what the trusts stance us on certain things when key members can make statements on here and then when challenged switch to the "its just my personal view" stance. That's fine of course, its a message board after all, but this switching back and forth across posts leads to an incoherent trust position.
It feels like it lacks leadership and a clear msssge *on here*, hence my, and seemingly others, frustration.
The issue that I think many have with @rikofold 's comments here is that
a) he can't claim to be posting from a personal perspective and then spend the next ten posts talking clearly (albeit "unofficially") from the trust's perspective
and
b) that if the trust is truly supposed to be the fans focal point in leading the charge to the owners regarding change (whatever form that may take) then reading the views of someone as apologetic and softly softly as @rikofold hardly inspires as the person representing us in front of our esteemed CEO. This might be unfair as I don't believe he's ever put himself forward formally as the voice of the trust but for better or worse that's how he comes across on here
On that note, where the f*** is Steve Clarke on Charlton Life, the biggest group of Charlton fans on the internet, and arguably greater in numbers than the trust??. @razil always put himself out there on here and never hid. The absence of Steve Clarke and the Ned Flanders approach of @rikofold hardly inspires confidence in the Trust for fighting our corner.
Personally I want the owners out, but even if I favoured a more tolerant approach then the way the trust are swallowing yet more vague promises of engagement etc would be disillusioning. I half expect someone from the trust to appear outside the West Stand on Saturday saying "I hold in my hands, a piece of paper.... " (actually that's just ridiculous because that would involve the trust communicating with the fans).
Thanks for the compliment (i think) although I recall you unless I'm mistaken, and some others still found a few things to complain about
You didn't hide though and for that I respect you.
On that note - I have massive respect for @rikold putting up with all of this. Where is Steve Clarke?
Charlton Life may be "the biggest group of Charlton fans on the internet" but it the number of regular users on here (whilst still pretty astonishing) is still a huge minority of our overall support. The number demanding specific members of the Trust board log in is even fewer.
As you'll know Trust board positions are unpaid and all members have jobs (and are entitled to a semblance of a family/social life apparently) which means that our limited resources need to be allocated appropriately. Having both Steve & @rikofold tied up answering questions on Charlton Life would be a poor use of those resources and would demonstrate terrible resource management.
For the record I've had about five emails in the last 24 hours from Steve on Trust related stuff so believe me he's extremely engaged in non-Charlton Life activity which sounds like the right call to me.
That's all fair enough, and I appreciate all that and I will edit / tone down my SC comments. I shouldn't be questioning effort or commitment as I know how hard working everyone is and also how we're after the same thing - a successful club.
However I do find it hard to know what the trusts stance us on certain things when key members can make statements on here and then when challenged switch to the "its just my personal view" stance. That's fine of course, its a message board after all, but this switching back and forth across posts leads to an incoherent trust position.
It feels like it lacks leadership and a clear msssge *on here*, hence my, and seemingly others, frustration.
Fair enough - I actually think the rule should be that unless it comes from the @castrust account you should assume it's that users personal opinion.
Someone on Twitter posted that they have just walked past Roland at the train station, which would imply that he will be taking in his one game a year this weekend.
If there's one time everyone is needed in the west car park...
The issue that I think many have with @rikofold 's comments here is that
a) he can't claim to be posting from a personal perspective and then spend the next ten posts talking clearly (albeit "unofficially") from the trust's perspective
and
b) that if the trust is truly supposed to be the fans focal point in leading the charge to the owners regarding change (whatever form that may take) then reading the views of someone as apologetic and softly softly as @rikofold hardly inspires as the person representing us in front of our esteemed CEO. This might be unfair as I don't believe he's ever put himself forward formally as the voice of the trust but for better or worse that's how he comes across on here
Personally I want the owners out, but even if I favoured a more tolerant approach then the way the trust are swallowing yet more vague promises of engagement etc would be disillusioning. I half expect someone from the trust to appear outside the West Stand on Saturday saying "I hold in my hands, a piece of paper.... "
I don't want a trust that is having a meeting with the Captain in his cosy quarters while the Titanic is heading towards the iceberg the rest of us can see from a mile off, I want one that is shaking him by his collars telling him of the impending disaster. Not wanting to rock the boat is irrelevant when the whole boat is going to sink without changing course.
*edited to remove unnecessary bit questioning Steve Clarke's visibility as that's a separate point and also I don't want it to read as though I'm questioning peoples commitment. Appreciate the many unpaid hours you all put in, despite not agreeing with current direction.
I'm happy to try to offer honest answers from a Trust perspective where it's asked of me, but to be frank there are people on this forum who seem to insist that everything I write is either written on behalf of the Trust or is an opportunity to corner me on some minutiae that's intended to prove we're the devil incarnate.
As @SE9Addick pointed out, there's a lot of work going on behind the scenes but it's hard to offer a running commentary when you're trying to negotiate stuff - just as it's fairly impossible to achieve a diplomatic solution whilst you're hurling bombs into the city.
I don't really care how people see me personally, I'd be much happier in the background to be frank but I believe in what the Trust is trying to achieve - I know the board well and they are to a person talented and committed - and believe it's part of a bigger 'campaign' in which we all have different roles to play.
Finally, I can assure you that the suggestion we're fiddling whilst Rome burns just isn't true. Why supporters want to talk down any other group is beyond me, particularly those offering their own time to try to make a difference - but this is nothing but a caricature offered as part of the usual playground politics among fans. Let's put it this way: if you consider dialogue in the context of peace in Northern Ireland you'd never picture it as supping rum with the skipper. I'm not comparing this to that conflict of course, but my point is that the idea we're popping round for a nice cup of tea and a biscuit couldn't be further from the truth.
As for me, I'm collaborative and diplomatic by nature. That's just me. I'm probably not the person you'd call when you're lining up your molotov cocktails, I accept that.
Don't speak a lot on this anymore, more of a reader than a poster but it was definitely him
Interesting but on previous experience he may not stay for the game.
Surely even he, if arriving in London on a Thursday morning, no matter what he is up to, would plan to stay for a Saturday game at his biggest club that he hasn't visited in god knows how long?
Hello, Mr Duchatelet, it's reception at the Valley, can you pop in before the Leeds game, you're very popular as there are thousands* of Christmas Cards addressed to you.
There is one other aspect about Trust Board members and their presence on Charlton Life which @rikofold and @se9addick didn't mention. But I think it should be mentioned, so here goes.
We've learnt that people from the club read Charlton Life extensively. That is hardly surprising, and you in some ways would damn well hope they do. Whether KM reads it herself I have no idea, I would assume she gets someone else to provider her with some kind of summary, and I think that too is perfectly reasonable.
Now the point is that the club people reading CL are just like everyone else in the social media age. They make assumptions and judgements about people based on what they read here. And we all know how misleading that can be. We've actually learnt thanks to the opening up of dialogue in the last few weeks some of the perceptions people in the club have about "high profile fans", and much of that perception seems to be based purely on what these fans have written on CL. I'm not saying they are right or wrong. Some of them sounded wrong to me, but that's not the point. That was the perception they've gained.
Whether anybody on here likes it or not, if we are going to get into regular constructive dialogue with the Club, the people in the Club we will deal with, have to be able to trust us. So we have to behave in a way which is trustworthy. For me personally that means among other things not being two-faced. It means only saying things here which I'd be prepared to say to the person's face. Now if you consider that the person might be someone from the Club, then it is not enough to be "brave" enough to say something to the person's face. You have to think about the effect your words will have on that person, and whether that effect helps the Trust's efforts on behalf of the fans.
Let's also bear in mind that the numbers dictate that the majority of CL posters are not members of the Trust. If anyone who is a Trust member wants to challenge what we are doing we actively encourage it. But face to face is best, as it always is in this increasingly distorted world of social media. Failing that, a PM. Several Lifers can confirm that I've proactively contacted people who have said they are Trust members, via PM to try and explain things privately in more detail.
I hope that shows that we have to be careful what we post here for good reasons which are in the best interests of fans. But that does not make any of us any less determined, and certainly does not mean that we are in some way 'compromised" as fans, because of our dialogue. People who suggest that on here simply don't know us as people. But again, it's perception. We're not going to be able to change that on CL. Personally I'll be around on 28th for the Wolves game. I'll be very happy if anyone wants to take me up in person on anything I've written here. Depending on the situation and progress, you may find me with my B/W Swansea City scarf on.....
Maybe it's time for Katrien's quarterly performance review.
They're always good at my work, we get biscuits.
When the biscuits don't come out mate, it's time to start worrying
Yep, I've turned up for a regular weekly 1:1 catch up my boss and knew it wasn't going to end up well when I opened the door and saw that the MD and HR Director had also kindly decided to join us. Pretty much confirmed to me when I glanced up and saw my boss's PA come back to her desk with my coat and a black plastic bag.
Someone on Twitter posted that they have just walked past Roland at the train station, which would imply that he will be taking in his one game a year this weekend.
If there's one time everyone is needed in the west car park...
I have on good authority from someone ITK he's over for the staff Christmas party. He's Santa.
He's staying the night in the Antigallican and is going to take in a tour of the maritime museum in the morning, then a light brunch before heading back on a national express coach tour from Victoria due to stop off round various parts of Europe to see all his other "children".
He wanted to stay for Leeds but was unable to due to the restrictions on his supasaver advanced ticket he booked on said coach back in July so let's give daddy a break yeah FFS.
Comments
As you'll know Trust board positions are unpaid and all members have jobs (and are entitled to a semblance of a family/social life apparently) which means that our limited resources need to be allocated appropriately. Having both Steve & @rikofold tied up answering questions on Charlton Life would be a poor use of those resources and would demonstrate terrible resource management.
For the record I've had about five emails in the last 24 hours from Steve on Trust related stuff so believe me he's extremely engaged in non-Charlton Life activity which sounds like the right call to me.
Apparently, we shouldn't protest because the club know we are unhappy. Surely, they only know that because we DID protest ?!
However I do find it hard to know what the trusts stance us on certain things when key members can make statements on here and then when challenged switch to the "its just my personal view" stance. That's fine of course, its a message board after all, but this switching back and forth across posts leads to an incoherent trust position.
It feels like it lacks leadership and a clear msssge *on here*, hence my, and seemingly others, frustration.
If there's one time everyone is needed in the west car park...
Maybe Colin could confirm? He'll know if his dads in town you'd think
As @SE9Addick pointed out, there's a lot of work going on behind the scenes but it's hard to offer a running commentary when you're trying to negotiate stuff - just as it's fairly impossible to achieve a diplomatic solution whilst you're hurling bombs into the city.
I don't really care how people see me personally, I'd be much happier in the background to be frank but I believe in what the Trust is trying to achieve - I know the board well and they are to a person talented and committed - and believe it's part of a bigger 'campaign' in which we all have different roles to play.
Finally, I can assure you that the suggestion we're fiddling whilst Rome burns just isn't true. Why supporters want to talk down any other group is beyond me, particularly those offering their own time to try to make a difference - but this is nothing but a caricature offered as part of the usual playground politics among fans. Let's put it this way: if you consider dialogue in the context of peace in Northern Ireland you'd never picture it as supping rum with the skipper. I'm not comparing this to that conflict of course, but my point is that the idea we're popping round for a nice cup of tea and a biscuit couldn't be further from the truth.
As for me, I'm collaborative and diplomatic by nature. That's just me. I'm probably not the person you'd call when you're lining up your molotov cocktails, I accept that.
*(EDIT: Ned Flanders!!!)
They're always good at my work, we get biscuits.
Then again, this is Roland...
*well, a few, apathy has kicked in these days
There is one other aspect about Trust Board members and their presence on Charlton Life which @rikofold and @se9addick didn't mention. But I think it should be mentioned, so here goes.
We've learnt that people from the club read Charlton Life extensively. That is hardly surprising, and you in some ways would damn well hope they do. Whether KM reads it herself I have no idea, I would assume she gets someone else to provider her with some kind of summary, and I think that too is perfectly reasonable.
Now the point is that the club people reading CL are just like everyone else in the social media age. They make assumptions and judgements about people based on what they read here. And we all know how misleading that can be. We've actually learnt thanks to the opening up of dialogue in the last few weeks some of the perceptions people in the club have about "high profile fans", and much of that perception seems to be based purely on what these fans have written on CL. I'm not saying they are right or wrong. Some of them sounded wrong to me, but that's not the point. That was the perception they've gained.
Whether anybody on here likes it or not, if we are going to get into regular constructive dialogue with the Club, the people in the Club we will deal with, have to be able to trust us. So we have to behave in a way which is trustworthy. For me personally that means among other things not being two-faced. It means only saying things here which I'd be prepared to say to the person's face. Now if you consider that the person might be someone from the Club, then it is not enough to be "brave" enough to say something to the person's face. You have to think about the effect your words will have on that person, and whether that effect helps the Trust's efforts on behalf of the fans.
Let's also bear in mind that the numbers dictate that the majority of CL posters are not members of the Trust. If anyone who is a Trust member wants to challenge what we are doing we actively encourage it. But face to face is best, as it always is in this increasingly distorted world of social media. Failing that, a PM. Several Lifers can confirm that I've proactively contacted people who have said they are Trust members, via PM to try and explain things privately in more detail.
I hope that shows that we have to be careful what we post here for good reasons which are in the best interests of fans. But that does not make any of us any less determined, and certainly does not mean that we are in some way 'compromised" as fans, because of our dialogue. People who suggest that on here simply don't know us as people. But again, it's perception. We're not going to be able to change that on CL. Personally I'll be around on 28th for the Wolves game. I'll be very happy if anyone wants to take me up in person on anything I've written here. Depending on the situation and progress, you may find me with my B/W Swansea City scarf on.....
that is unbelieveable
He's staying the night in the Antigallican and is going to take in a tour of the maritime museum in the morning, then a light brunch before heading back on a national express coach tour from Victoria due to stop off round various parts of Europe to see all his other "children".
He wanted to stay for Leeds but was unable to due to the restrictions on his supasaver advanced ticket he booked on said coach back in July so let's give daddy a break yeah FFS.