The boy Simon (Theo Foley speak) has honest endeavour. but is a poor header of a football, that's why the winner against Sheffield Wednesday in the cup was a Joe Hart Goal ? It went in off his head and Shoulder.
The majority on here have said we need a plan B if Tony or Igor are having a off day or Knackered or injured. This would be a striker who can head the ball. THIS IS NOT ROCKET EFFING SCIENCE.
One thing that caught my attention from the game was to do with their poor penalty. Once it was awarded Henderson left the area and their bloke was standing over the ball and looking at an empty goal for a while, waiting. I wonder if you look at an occupied goal you can orientate yourself better, but looking at a big empty space skews with your perception or foot eye coordination or something, the empty space seems so luxurious you feel you can't miss, then the late arrival of the keeper messes with your mind. Just a thought.
"Yeah but let's give Church another one year deal as Luzon will get the best out of him and he runs around etc etc"
Load of bollocks. Ship him off the moment the season is over. Hopeless. Disgrace to the shirt.
Blaming Church now for us losing? Bore off you idiot
For missing an absolute sitter which he didn't even come close to scoring when it was 1-1. Who else should be blamed for that?
It wasn't a sitter. If Watt had missed it no one would of said a thing. Your just looking for another excuse to dig him out .
Watt would have at least made a connection with the ball.
So why didn't we score that then? The cross? The rain getting in his eyes? You tell me why he barely even made a connection with the ball.
Since when did Watt actually score a header? Actually, how often does even win headers? Generally that's Igor's role. Watt's got a lot of talent no question but aerial prowess is not really in his skillset on current evidence. Maybe Church COULD have done better with one chance but the other was far too high, no striker in the league has a 1:1 chance:goal ratio so putting all the blame on Church is ridiculous.
Apologies to the fans around me for screaming like a demented banshee misssss when Millwall went to take their penalty, I still haven't got my voice back, why does Millwall bring out the worst in people.
Have to say I was not suprised by the result if we were top of the Premiership and they were playing at Charlton Park I still wouldn't back us to beat them it is one of lifes mysteries. Had a first hand experience yesterday of why I can't stand the majority of Millwall supporters I was playing golf and was signing in at my mates club when in walks this bloke about 40 years old shouting his mouth off about the win. The toady behind the counter immediately points out that I am wearing a Charlton water proof top and so Mr Millwall gives me a bit of a verbal so as I am nothing like a fighting man, and feel that grown men should act less like children all I said was "Well we never beat you so no surprise there" and then grinned a bit which for some reason aggravated him even more so I left him standing there glaring at me.
As we walked out my mate said "You know what they are all like that what is their problem? You were perfectly friendly" and that sums them up apart from being several species down the food chain they have to live up to their reputation even if the rest of the world couldn't care less. Although one of my best mates is a season ticket holder at Milwall (and a bloody good bloke he is too) I will be screaming Wigan and Rotherham on so that that lot get relegated.
I still haven't got my hearing back after a CAFC fan was screaming in my ear like a demented spirit just us the penalty was being taken. Plus will Junior reds please refrain from asking Middle age fans like me to put pyrotechnics down their boxers because i won't get searched. wrong. I was searched so vigorously, it set off the Pyro and i now have matching earrings.
This is not a cock and bull story ? (are you sure sam ? or is it samantha )
"Yeah but let's give Church another one year deal as Luzon will get the best out of him and he runs around etc etc"
Load of bollocks. Ship him off the moment the season is over. Hopeless. Disgrace to the shirt.
Blaming Church now for us losing? Bore off you idiot
For missing an absolute sitter which he didn't even come close to scoring when it was 1-1. Who else should be blamed for that?
It wasn't a sitter. If Watt had missed it no one would of said a thing. Your just looking for another excuse to dig him out .
Watt would have at least made a connection with the ball.
So why didn't we score that then? The cross? The rain getting in his eyes? You tell me why he barely even made a connection with the ball.
Since when did Watt actually score a header? Actually, how often does even win headers? Generally that's Igor's role. Watt's got a lot of talent no question but aerial prowess is not really in his skillset on current evidence. Maybe Church COULD have done better with one chance but the other was far too high, no striker in the league has a 1:1 chance:goal ratio so putting all the blame on Church is ridiculous.
So its OK that he missed a free header? Even though he is a six foot "striker"?
"Yeah but let's give Church another one year deal as Luzon will get the best out of him and he runs around etc etc"
Load of bollocks. Ship him off the moment the season is over. Hopeless. Disgrace to the shirt.
Blaming Church now for us losing? Bore off you idiot
For missing an absolute sitter which he didn't even come close to scoring when it was 1-1. Who else should be blamed for that?
It wasn't a sitter. If Watt had missed it no one would of said a thing. Your just looking for another excuse to dig him out .
Watt would have at least made a connection with the ball.
So why didn't we score that then? The cross? The rain getting in his eyes? You tell me why he barely even made a connection with the ball.
Since when did Watt actually score a header? Actually, how often does even win headers? Generally that's Igor's role. Watt's got a lot of talent no question but aerial prowess is not really in his skillset on current evidence. Maybe Church COULD have done better with one chance but the other was far too high, no striker in the league has a 1:1 chance:goal ratio so putting all the blame on Church is ridiculous.
So its OK that he missed a free header? Even though he is a six foot "striker"?
He's out of contract, he's not going to be here next season why keep on?
"Yeah but let's give Church another one year deal as Luzon will get the best out of him and he runs around etc etc"
Load of bollocks. Ship him off the moment the season is over. Hopeless. Disgrace to the shirt.
Blaming Church now for us losing? Bore off you idiot
For missing an absolute sitter which he didn't even come close to scoring when it was 1-1. Who else should be blamed for that?
It wasn't a sitter. If Watt had missed it no one would of said a thing. Your just looking for another excuse to dig him out .
Watt would have at least made a connection with the ball.
So why didn't we score that then? The cross? The rain getting in his eyes? You tell me why he barely even made a connection with the ball.
Since when did Watt actually score a header? Actually, how often does even win headers? Generally that's Igor's role. Watt's got a lot of talent no question but aerial prowess is not really in his skillset on current evidence. Maybe Church COULD have done better with one chance but the other was far too high, no striker in the league has a 1:1 chance:goal ratio so putting all the blame on Church is ridiculous.
So its OK that he missed a free header? Even though he is a six foot "striker"?
No. It's a bad miss and he should have done better.
It's what you said earlier, that he is the one to blame for us losing, that I take issue with. He wasn't responsible for us playing poorly throughout the game. Nor for us being down to 10 men. Nor for Watt and Vetokele having poor games. Nor for the ricochet that fell to Gueye for the equaliser. Nor for Hooiveld reacting quicker than Johnson for the winner.
And as for your 'disgrace to the shirt' comment - I don't think any player who gives his all for Charlton can be called a disgrace, regardless of ability. There have been all sorts of players who haven't given a toss about the club who I would call a disgrace, players with more ability than him but with none of the effort. Church is an honest professional who never gives anything less than his best. His best will never be good enough to score goals regularly at Championship level, but that by no means makes him a disgrace.
We are set up to win: Good Sick of CAFC not trying to Beat teams. Downside to this is when we don't have enough of the ball, JBG.Igor,Watt and Bulot are great going forward but not to clever on the defensive front. Which is why we have won 7 and lost 3 of our last 10 games.(no more draws) Luzon did get caught out on Friday but won't slag him off because he is trying to play the right way. In the eight away games i've seen so far this season, the Millwall game started like most of the other's when the home team have early chances. I'm convinced we would have got at least a draw if didn't play with 10 men for 72 minutes which is difficult when a team is fighting for their lives against you.
Sometimes your better off letting the Lion sleep than pulling his tail and waking him up.
"Yeah but let's give Church another one year deal as Luzon will get the best out of him and he runs around etc etc"
Load of bollocks. Ship him off the moment the season is over. Hopeless. Disgrace to the shirt.
Blaming Church now for us losing? Bore off you idiot
For missing an absolute sitter which he didn't even come close to scoring when it was 1-1. Who else should be blamed for that?
It wasn't a sitter. If Watt had missed it no one would of said a thing. Your just looking for another excuse to dig him out .
Watt would have at least made a connection with the ball.
So why didn't we score that then? The cross? The rain getting in his eyes? You tell me why he barely even made a connection with the ball.
Since when did Watt actually score a header? Actually, how often does even win headers? Generally that's Igor's role. Watt's got a lot of talent no question but aerial prowess is not really in his skillset on current evidence. Maybe Church COULD have done better with one chance but the other was far too high, no striker in the league has a 1:1 chance:goal ratio so putting all the blame on Church is ridiculous.
So its OK that he missed a free header? Even though he is a six foot "striker"?
No. It's a bad miss and he should have done better.
It's what you said earlier, that he is the one to blame for us losing, that I take issue with. He wasn't responsible for us playing poorly throughout the game. Nor for us being down to 10 men. Nor for Watt and Vetokele having poor games. Nor for the ricochet that fell to Gueye for the equaliser. Nor for Hooiveld reacting quicker than Johnson for the winner. .
Sorry can you point out where I said he was responsible for us losing?
Been away since Thursday in Wales with no phone signal or Internet/wifi...saw result on final score and wasn't surprised, haven't been down there since the 4-0 game and won't go back for the forseeable, I'm not even particularly annoyed and my millwall mates have given up even taking the piss when they beat us
"Yeah but let's give Church another one year deal as Luzon will get the best out of him and he runs around etc etc"
Load of bollocks. Ship him off the moment the season is over. Hopeless. Disgrace to the shirt.
Blaming Church now for us losing? Bore off you idiot
For missing an absolute sitter which he didn't even come close to scoring when it was 1-1. Who else should be blamed for that?
Church has had enough chances, he will have to go.
We should not have signed him in the first place, any striker with a one in five goal ratio is not to the standard we should be signing.
So in fairness to Church it is Powell we should be criticising for bringing him in.
You do remember the circumstances under which he was signed, don't you?
So in fairness to Powell we should be criticising Slater and Tone for bringing him in.
Genuine question. No I don't.
Powell lost BWP, Haynes and Fuller in that summer. He spent all summer chasing replacements.
I firmly believe Church was only on trial as a fall back option in case we couldn't get anyone better and we needed numbers to fulfill friendlies.
It got to about three days until the beginning of the season and Kermorgant was still our only senior striker. Powell was left to offer Church a contract as well as bring in Sordell on loan from Bolton.
"Yeah but let's give Church another one year deal as Luzon will get the best out of him and he runs around etc etc"
Load of bollocks. Ship him off the moment the season is over. Hopeless. Disgrace to the shirt.
Blaming Church now for us losing? Bore off you idiot
For missing an absolute sitter which he didn't even come close to scoring when it was 1-1. Who else should be blamed for that?
Church has had enough chances, he will have to go.
We should not have signed him in the first place, any striker with a one in five goal ratio is not to the standard we should be signing.
So in fairness to Church it is Powell we should be criticising for bringing him in.
You do remember the circumstances under which he was signed, don't you?
So in fairness to Powell we should be criticising Slater and Tone for bringing him in.
Genuine question. No I don't.
Powell lost BWP, Haynes and Fuller in that summer. He spent all summer chasing replacements.
I firmly believe Church was only on trial as a fall back option in case we couldn't get anyone better and we needed numbers to fulfill friendlies.
It got to about three days until the beginning of the season and Kermorgant was still our only senior striker. Powell was left to offer Church a contract as well as bring in Sordell on loan from Bolton.
http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/23534618 The season started two days later. We almost went into the season with one striker. Gives you an idea of how desperate the situation was.
"Yeah but let's give Church another one year deal as Luzon will get the best out of him and he runs around etc etc"
Load of bollocks. Ship him off the moment the season is over. Hopeless. Disgrace to the shirt.
Blaming Church now for us losing? Bore off you idiot
For missing an absolute sitter which he didn't even come close to scoring when it was 1-1. Who else should be blamed for that?
It wasn't a sitter. If Watt had missed it no one would of said a thing. Your just looking for another excuse to dig him out .
Watt would have at least made a connection with the ball.
So why didn't we score that then? The cross? The rain getting in his eyes? You tell me why he barely even made a connection with the ball.
Since when did Watt actually score a header? Actually, how often does even win headers? Generally that's Igor's role. Watt's got a lot of talent no question but aerial prowess is not really in his skillset on current evidence. Maybe Church COULD have done better with one chance but the other was far too high, no striker in the league has a 1:1 chance:goal ratio so putting all the blame on Church is ridiculous.
So its OK that he missed a free header? Even though he is a six foot "striker"?
No. It's a bad miss and he should have done better.
It's what you said earlier, that he is the one to blame for us losing, that I take issue with. He wasn't responsible for us playing poorly throughout the game. Nor for us being down to 10 men. Nor for Watt and Vetokele having poor games. Nor for the ricochet that fell to Gueye for the equaliser. Nor for Hooiveld reacting quicker than Johnson for the winner. .
Sorry can you point out where I said he was responsible for us losing?
When cafc4life said "Blaming Church now for us losing?" you didn't dispute it there. Your reply suggested that that was what you were saying. Apologies if I misinterpreted, but that's how it came across.
Still, it's good that you don't disagree with anything else I said. So will you retract what you said about Church being a 'disgrace to the shirt'?
"Yeah but let's give Church another one year deal as Luzon will get the best out of him and he runs around etc etc"
Load of bollocks. Ship him off the moment the season is over. Hopeless. Disgrace to the shirt.
Blaming Church now for us losing? Bore off you idiot
For missing an absolute sitter which he didn't even come close to scoring when it was 1-1. Who else should be blamed for that?
It wasn't a sitter. If Watt had missed it no one would of said a thing. Your just looking for another excuse to dig him out .
Watt would have at least made a connection with the ball.
So why didn't we score that then? The cross? The rain getting in his eyes? You tell me why he barely even made a connection with the ball.
Since when did Watt actually score a header? Actually, how often does even win headers? Generally that's Igor's role. Watt's got a lot of talent no question but aerial prowess is not really in his skillset on current evidence. Maybe Church COULD have done better with one chance but the other was far too high, no striker in the league has a 1:1 chance:goal ratio so putting all the blame on Church is ridiculous.
So its OK that he missed a free header? Even though he is a six foot "striker"?
No. It's a bad miss and he should have done better.
It's what you said earlier, that he is the one to blame for us losing, that I take issue with. He wasn't responsible for us playing poorly throughout the game. Nor for us being down to 10 men. Nor for Watt and Vetokele having poor games. Nor for the ricochet that fell to Gueye for the equaliser. Nor for Hooiveld reacting quicker than Johnson for the winner. .
Sorry can you point out where I said he was responsible for us losing?
When cafc4life said "Blaming Church now for us losing?" you didn't dispute it there. Your reply suggested that that was what you were saying. Apologies if I misinterpreted, but that's how it came across.
Still, it's good that you don't disagree with anything else I said. So will you retract what you said about Church being a 'disgrace to the shirt'?
Hang on, so you're telling me that I suggested we lost because of Church based on something I didn't actually say? Ha, OK.
No I won't retract what I said. The guy scores 5 goals in approximately 50 games and has the nerve to cup his ears to the North Stand when he scores in a League Cup game against Colchester. I don't care how much he runs around, he clearly hasn't done enough in training to develop himself into a better player.
Well, you seemed to be blaming Church for something more than just missing that chance. Again though, apologies for misreading.
"he clearly hasn't done enough in training to develop himself into a better player" - that criticism could be applied to pretty much every footballer on the planet who isn't playing at the very highest level. Why only Church? It's remarkable how you claim to know how good he should be if he's never actually played as well as he should have done, and how you know how hard he works in training.
Alan McCormack was a disgrace to the shirt. Izale MacLeod was a disgrace to the shirt. Danny Mills was a disgrace to the shirt in his second spell. Are you really putting Church in that same category?
Well, you seemed to be blaming Church for something more than just missing that chance. Again though, apologies for misreading.
"he clearly hasn't done enough in training to develop himself into a better player" - that criticism could be applied to pretty much every footballer on the planet who isn't playing at the very highest level. Why only Church? It's remarkable how you claim to know how good he should be if he's never actually played as well as he should have done, and how you know how hard he works in training.
Alan McCormack was a disgrace to the shirt. Izale MacLeod was a disgrace to the shirt. Danny Mills was a disgrace to the shirt in his second spell. Are you really putting Church in that same category?
Notice how you didn't touch upon the fact that he gave stick to our supporters after scoring a rare goal.
I don't know what makes him better than the likes of McCormack or McLeod. He runs around more?
What many fail to mention is that the reason he is running around so much is usually because he has failed to win/trap the ball into him the first time around and therefore has to chase. Usually chasing once the player is away from him and putting in a token gesture run which he knows will lead to nothing, but at least hes trying right?
Not sure how he can be compared to Danny Mills, who was a good player for us but his reputation was tarnished based on discipline.
If he is doing the right things in training day in and day out then he would know how to make connection with a ball when he gets a free header or how to not sidefoot a ball into the keepers arms when he is through on goal. I would expect those failings with players who are at Conference level, who have access to Conference training resources - not from someone who is plying their trade in the Championship and on the international scene.
Comments
So why didn't we score that then? The cross? The rain getting in his eyes? You tell me why he barely even made a connection with the ball.
but is a poor header of a football, that's why the winner against Sheffield Wednesday in the cup was a Joe Hart Goal ?
It went in off his head and Shoulder.
The majority on here have said we need a plan B if Tony or Igor are having a off day or Knackered or injured.
This would be a striker who can head the ball.
THIS IS NOT ROCKET EFFING SCIENCE.
I wonder if you look at an occupied goal you can orientate yourself better, but looking at a big empty space skews with your perception or foot eye coordination or something, the empty space seems so luxurious you feel you can't miss, then the late arrival of the keeper messes with your mind.
Just a thought.
As we walked out my mate said "You know what they are all like that what is their problem? You were perfectly friendly" and that sums them up apart from being several species down the food chain they have to live up to their reputation even if the rest of the world couldn't care less. Although one of my best mates is a season ticket holder at Milwall (and a bloody good bloke he is too) I will be screaming Wigan and Rotherham on so that that lot get relegated.
So in fairness to Powell we should be criticising Slater and Tone for bringing him in.
Plus will Junior reds please refrain from asking Middle age fans like me to put pyrotechnics down their boxers because i won't get searched. wrong.
I was searched so vigorously, it set off the Pyro and i now have matching earrings.
This is not a cock and bull story ? (are you sure sam ? or is it samantha )
It's what you said earlier, that he is the one to blame for us losing, that I take issue with. He wasn't responsible for us playing poorly throughout the game. Nor for us being down to 10 men. Nor for Watt and Vetokele having poor games. Nor for the ricochet that fell to Gueye for the equaliser. Nor for Hooiveld reacting quicker than Johnson for the winner.
And as for your 'disgrace to the shirt' comment - I don't think any player who gives his all for Charlton can be called a disgrace, regardless of ability. There have been all sorts of players who haven't given a toss about the club who I would call a disgrace, players with more ability than him but with none of the effort. Church is an honest professional who never gives anything less than his best. His best will never be good enough to score goals regularly at Championship level, but that by no means makes him a disgrace.
Sick of CAFC not trying to Beat teams.
Downside to this is when we don't have enough of the ball,
JBG.Igor,Watt and Bulot are great going forward but not to clever on the defensive front.
Which is why we have won 7 and lost 3 of our last 10 games.(no more draws)
Luzon did get caught out on Friday but won't slag him off because he is trying to play the right way.
In the eight away games i've seen so far this season, the Millwall game started like most of the other's when the home team have early chances.
I'm convinced we would have got at least a draw if didn't play with 10 men for 72 minutes which is difficult when a team is fighting for their lives against you.
Sometimes your better off letting the Lion sleep than pulling his tail and waking him up.
Soapboxsam proverb 2015
Been doing my head in all day, forget Guantanemo bay, this is torture.
hand or face ?
Ban the lot of them i say.
It's in the Laws.
When one of the chaps said it was 13 games it somehow didn't seem as bad....
This game finds new ways to kick you every f****** time
I firmly believe Church was only on trial as a fall back option in case we couldn't get anyone better and we needed numbers to fulfill friendlies.
It got to about three days until the beginning of the season and Kermorgant was still our only senior striker. Powell was left to offer Church a contract as well as bring in Sordell on loan from Bolton.
The season started two days later. We almost went into the season with one striker. Gives you an idea of how desperate the situation was.
Still, it's good that you don't disagree with anything else I said. So will you retract what you said about Church being a 'disgrace to the shirt'?
No I won't retract what I said. The guy scores 5 goals in approximately 50 games and has the nerve to cup his ears to the North Stand when he scores in a League Cup game against Colchester. I don't care how much he runs around, he clearly hasn't done enough in training to develop himself into a better player.
"he clearly hasn't done enough in training to develop himself into a better player" - that criticism could be applied to pretty much every footballer on the planet who isn't playing at the very highest level. Why only Church? It's remarkable how you claim to know how good he should be if he's never actually played as well as he should have done, and how you know how hard he works in training.
Alan McCormack was a disgrace to the shirt. Izale MacLeod was a disgrace to the shirt. Danny Mills was a disgrace to the shirt in his second spell. Are you really putting Church in that same category?
I don't know what makes him better than the likes of McCormack or McLeod. He runs around more?
What many fail to mention is that the reason he is running around so much is usually because he has failed to win/trap the ball into him the first time around and therefore has to chase. Usually chasing once the player is away from him and putting in a token gesture run which he knows will lead to nothing, but at least hes trying right?
Not sure how he can be compared to Danny Mills, who was a good player for us but his reputation was tarnished based on discipline.
If he is doing the right things in training day in and day out then he would know how to make connection with a ball when he gets a free header or how to not sidefoot a ball into the keepers arms when he is through on goal. I would expect those failings with players who are at Conference level, who have access to Conference training resources - not from someone who is plying their trade in the Championship and on the international scene.