If Rick and Steve, oh and don't forget Wendy as an ex-employee (none of them on the Trust board) were there with axes to grind, if another seven were there for the same reasons, then how about the remaining 390? Soon somebody will say they were a rabble who were roused, or led by the nose, or sheep, but they most certainly were not. The whole gathering, was united by an interest in the welfare of Charlton Athletic whatever their current or previous employment.
Pleased and a little surprised that those speaking against 'action' where not shouted down and even applauded. It sounds as if it was mostly the older supporters there, which may have been a factor.
What's peoples views/guess on why there were so few younger supporters there?
how does it being older supporters being there meant those with opposing views were not shouted down. It was the older fans shouting down others at the VIP meeting
Pleased and a little surprised that those speaking against 'action' where not shouted down and even applauded. It sounds as if it was mostly the older supporters there, which may have been a factor.
What's peoples views/guess on why there were so few younger supporters there?
Perhaps they don't give a shit and just want to see a game of football every now and then, get on the beer and have a laugh ?
Perhaps they don't frequent sites like this so just get on with it ?
Pleased and a little surprised that those speaking against 'action' where not shouted down and even applauded. It sounds as if it was mostly the older supporters there, which may have been a factor.
What's peoples views/guess on why there were so few younger supporters there?
how does it being older supporters being there meant those with opposing views were not shouted down. It was the older fans shouting down others at the VIP meeting
Just trying to marry up the reported calm/good natured debate with the hysterical and often less than friendly rhetoric found on Charlton life.
Really good meeting, shows that strength of feeling out there. All views were heard and clapped. Steve Clarke did a great job as chair and asked questions of those pro and anti RD so feel it was balanced.
I walked out when it was obvious that there was no point me being there, and people started talking about no renewing season tickets
Serious question. What was you expecting to happen tonight ?
I went with the belief that anyone who had anything positive to say would be shouted down, despite the pronounced "aims" of the meeting. (I.E. no one was to be shouted down)
From what others have said from being there longer than I was, I was correct.
This is very misleading. The truth is that positive views were listened to and applauded. Positive views from the survey responses were read out in full. Only one person shouted "rubbish" at a speaker's comments and were met with a loud ssshhhh from others attending. The chair questioned many/most speakers for clarification, not to argue with them.
Pleased and a little surprised that those speaking against 'action' where not shouted down and even applauded. It sounds as if it was mostly the older supporters there, which may have been a factor.
What's peoples views/guess on why there were so few younger supporters there?
how does it being older supporters being there meant those with opposing views were not shouted down. It was the older fans shouting down others at the VIP meeting
Just trying to marry up the reported calm/good natured debate with the hysterical and often less than friendly rhetoric found on Charlton life.
The age thing bothers me too. But there are some facts that help to explain:
1. it was recently mentioned that the average age of an East Stand ST holder is 56
2. It is well documented that the average age of fans in the FAPL is much higher than 20 years ago, for the simple reason that it is so bloody expensive. It must be true in this division too.
But your last point is simple to explain. It's so bloody easy to sit at a keyboard and snipe. Not so easy to get yourself down there and have the bottle to stand up and repeat what you so casually write. And by "you", I don't mean you but you don't have to look far up this thread to see examples.
Seems there is an agenda here ...the only speaker from the floor who was questioned by the chair has been the one who is pro-network. When stating that he is happy to see how matters go over next few weeks, he was met by a shout of 'rubbish' from the floor.
That's not good we need UNITY and everyone deserves their opinion.....don't weaken an argument by shouting down those that don't agree
To be fair I was anticipating that there would be a lot of shouting down of those that were not anti Duchatalet, but there was only the one "rubbish" shout all evening. All views were listened to with respect even when not agreed to.
It was a very constructive and respectful meeting and while there were different shades of opinion there was a massive consensus for trying to engage at least once more with the owner. I have some video and will endeavour to get something on YouTube tomorrow but the people trying to claim it was anything other than an entirely reasonable meeting, never mind that people were or would have been shouted down, will look a bit silly. Excellently chaired by Steve Clarke and a good speech by Seriously Red. Yes, Seriously.
I had an absolute mare of a journey over from Berkshire - left myself 3 hours for what would usually be a 90 minute journey, hoping to pop in a pub and put some CL faces to names. As it was, I got there just after 7.30 and froze my bollocks off in a standing room only mausoleum and then had the regulation 90 minute drive home to find that the M3 was completely closed between junctions 2 and 4 so had to take the pretty but pitch black back roads.
But - I'm really glad I made the effort. Those organising and then running the meeting deserve loads of credit for the balanced and constructive way in which views were elicited. Of course it was always going to be impossible to crystallise all the inputs there and then and come up with an immediate plan of action - but it was a very good starting point. Great speech from @Airman Brown and anyone who still thinks he is speaking up as a bitter ex-employee rather than as a passionate die-hard supporter is way, way out of touch.
It just wasn't feasible for everyone to have their say on the night but I hope the Trust seek inputs on the "what should be done" question from all the members who attended.
Must have bumped into or introduced for the first time a good 100+ people who post on here tonight, and it was great seeing again, or meeting you all for the first time.
There were a couple of speakers on the floor I don't know who mentioned CL, both pro and against RD and co, thought you both spoke excellently.
Pleased and a little surprised that those speaking against 'action' where not shouted down and even applauded. It sounds as if it was mostly the older supporters there, which may have been a factor.
What's peoples views/guess on why there were so few younger supporters there?
how does it being older supporters being there meant those with opposing views were not shouted down. It was the older fans shouting down others at the VIP meeting
Just trying to marry up the reported calm/good natured debate with the hysterical and often less than friendly rhetoric found on Charlton life.
The age thing bothers me too. But there are some facts that help to explain:
1. it was recently mentioned that the average age of an East Stand ST holder is 56
2. It is well documented that the average age of fans in the FAPL is much higher than 20 years ago, for the simple reason that it is so bloody expensive. It must be true in this division too.
But your last point is simple to explain. It's so bloody easy to sit at a keyboard and snipe. Not so easy to get yourself down there and have the bottle to stand up and repeat what you so casually write. And by "you", I don't mean you but you don't have to look far up this thread to see examples.
That average age stat is a bit scary!
I have heard some pretty nasty verbals directed at the owner from my seat at the Valley, accompanied by much tsking from surrounding supports. I was anticipating similar at the meeting or worse (glad I was wrong).
Pleased i went, no masterplan tonight, but good to hear the different views. The pro Roland folk missed a trick tonight, you could have got your views across and you would have been applauded, mainly for having the bottle to speak. still don't worry you can go back to being keyboard warriors.
Some CL love to have a pop at Airman, you would have been disappointed tonight he didn't say we should storm his two chalets but keep on trying to put our points across for now.
The 71 year old chap who said we should by pass Katrien to get to Roland, by email or text or paper plane made a good case.
Covered end said we would have more chance with Murray than Katrien to get our message across.
Steve Dixon was very ani the network of clubs, and another couple of guys said they would rather us be in League 2 as long as we had a charlton fan/fans in charge. ? that would mean i would have to turn up and want us to lose,
sorry guys that not in my DNA to do that. But i do understand the sentiment.
The age profile of the meeting is simple to explain. The tactic of a public meeting in a cold theatre goes back centuries and has little congruence with this century and the tech generation. The East Stand may be well over 50 but the North Upper certainly isn't and nor are the away support. Twitter, Facebook, apps and websites are where you can gather thousands of hits in a day. Someone, or a group of people need to re-engineer the campaign of the Valley Party to apply to today's circumstances and today's technology. One guy there tonight had political campaigning experience on both sides of the Atlantic - i trust n Fortunately @razil myself @SE9 ADDICK@ken from bexley and a few others have already established a platform to build this from. You have thousands of fan contacts and thousands in the bank together with several well developed tactics. Add this site, and all of the other with a common interest and that's quite a few thousand fans...Perhaps 10,000+?
Can't help feeling that, although, Airman was a major player in the Back to the Valley campaign, both he and Steve Dixon, being ex employees of the club, and having fallen out with the previous owners, have an axe to grind. I therefore wonder if they should be taking a lead on behalf of supporters when relationships are already strained. Are they representing Trust members.
Here you find the Trust board. Neither Rick nor Steve are there. Some of us know them well and count them as friends. But there are two Board members aged under 30, and two females. And vacant chairs....
Ok so, honestly, PA, did you put that link on here so that we would see that fantastic photo of you?
Do you put that on I'll your marketing merchandise?
To us old 'uns alarm bells have started to ring (deja-vu all over again !!), but maybe our current predicament doesn't resonate with the younger fans in quite the same way.
A courteous and useful meeting. Anyone anticipating guerilla warfare to break out would have been disappointed, as would those expecting civil war amongst ourselves. An outstanding address from RE.
As far as the Owner is concerned, clearly we're doing something wrong. Perhaps someone more technically proficient than me could kindly look at the CZ Jena website and post the following (preferably in English !!) - one item is a letter from the coach sent yesterday to every club member encouraging attendance at Saturday's game (the first after the winter break) with a 50% ticket price reduction on presentation of said letter, and a second very interesting item, also from yesterday, concerns the formal signing up of an Advisory Council with various fan bodies and the Club, to act as a bridge between all parties. This appears to be a serious and binding commitment, and the agreement runs until the end of next year. If it's good enough for FCC, why not us as well?
If the next step that occurs is that - say - The Trust is mandated to start negotiating season ticket blockades with other network clubs to 'force RD to the negotiating table', then the fans will, essentially, be at war with the management and it will set the club back for many years.
As I've said before, I am curious as to what can actually happen. Imagine I am furious at the network and went along, what can we collectively bring about? The club is privately owned, they have made it clear in the past that they won't communicate properly?
I don't want to criticise those that went at all, I am just interested in how things like this can move things forward, in fact if anything I'm actually worried that a meeting of 400 supporters can't actually move anything forward without proper dialogue... Unfortunately it seems more like a group therapy session unless there's anything that can actually be done, which without network willing engagement, is nothing?
Excellent stuff. Have enjoyed following and reading this. I am trying to make more links with the Alcorcón fanbase so will write about this on their forum. They have similar concerns but with much smaller numbers of fans their frustrations are far less visible. A connection with our fanbase and the Trust could be a good way for them to manifest their feelings about RD and the network.
For me, the current situation falls into 2 aspects;
1. Roland's takeover APPEARS to mean that we are less likely to go bust or be wound up than when Slater and Jiminez/Cash were at the helm and wanting rid of us.
2. Nobody can explain the reason why a successful foreign businessman would want to create a 'network' of loss-making football teams and, given that he (via KM) has no obvious ambition to reach the Premiership money-train, we don't trust him and want answers/reassurance that his aims meet ours.
Am I right? If so, the Trust (or whoever represents us in attempting to get the contact/answers we crave) needs to achieve sight of his true business plan for CAFC. Once we think we have that, then we can be clearer on whether he truly is the devil or otherwise.
It's all about the business plan and our ability to be seen by the owner as relevant stakeholders in how the club is run and the medium/long term goals of the club. Roland appears to be a stubborn so and so and despite our wish for him to 'need to talk to te fans) there is a harsh reality for us that he simply does not have to. He is the owner and he can do what he damn wll pleases. If that means alienating the fans and losing revenue then you have to question the reasons why it would benefit him in doing that. Clearly, there would be no positive reasons; only sinister ones from our perspective.
I wish Steve and the Trust every success in battling to make a break through here. Please, please, please focus on the business plan with him as this will give us the best chance of him engaging with us by 'talking his language'.
WSS - nice article. The problem we have is being valued by the owner. If he won't treat us as relevant stakeholders and communicate with us (which I feel he is simply never going to do) then 'revolution' (in whatever effective form that might take) will be the only option. I like the idea of targeting the club sponsors based on the impact that had on the Ched Evans situation. I'm not sure buying less burgers at the ground, singing protest songs at set times during the match or cheeky banners are going to scratch the surface with the owner.
Comments
The whole gathering, was united by an interest in the welfare of Charlton Athletic whatever their current or previous employment.
Perhaps they don't frequent sites like this so just get on with it ?
Perhaps they had better things to do tonight ?
Now the trust need to lead the next move
Will be joining the trust in the morning
1. it was recently mentioned that the average age of an East Stand ST holder is 56
2. It is well documented that the average age of fans in the FAPL is much higher than 20 years ago, for the simple reason that it is so bloody expensive. It must be true in this division too.
But your last point is simple to explain. It's so bloody easy to sit at a keyboard and snipe. Not so easy to get yourself down there and have the bottle to stand up and repeat what you so casually write. And by "you", I don't mean you but you don't have to look far up this thread to see examples.
But - I'm really glad I made the effort. Those organising and then running the meeting deserve loads of credit for the balanced and constructive way in which views were elicited. Of course it was always going to be impossible to crystallise all the inputs there and then and come up with an immediate plan of action - but it was a very good starting point. Great speech from @Airman Brown and anyone who still thinks he is speaking up as a bitter ex-employee rather than as a passionate die-hard supporter is way, way out of touch.
It just wasn't feasible for everyone to have their say on the night but I hope the Trust seek inputs on the "what should be done" question from all the members who attended.
There were a couple of speakers on the floor I don't know who mentioned CL, both pro and against RD and co, thought you both spoke excellently.
I have heard some pretty nasty verbals directed at the owner from my seat at the Valley, accompanied by much tsking from surrounding supports. I was anticipating similar at the meeting or worse (glad I was wrong).
The pro Roland folk missed a trick tonight, you could have got your views across and you would have been applauded, mainly for having the bottle to speak.
still don't worry you can go back to being keyboard warriors.
Some CL love to have a pop at Airman, you would have been disappointed tonight
he didn't say we should storm his two chalets but keep on trying to put our points across for now.
The 71 year old chap who said we should by pass Katrien to get to Roland, by email or text or paper plane made a good case.
Covered end said we would have more chance with Murray than Katrien to get our message across.
Steve Dixon was very ani the network of clubs, and another couple of guys said they would rather us be in League 2 as long as we had a charlton fan/fans in charge. ? that would mean i would have to turn up and want us to lose,
sorry guys that not in my DNA to do that. But i do understand the sentiment.
The East Stand may be well over 50 but the North Upper certainly isn't and nor are the away support. Twitter, Facebook, apps and websites are where you can gather thousands of hits in a day.
Someone, or a group of people need to re-engineer the campaign of the Valley Party to apply to today's circumstances and today's technology. One guy there tonight had political campaigning experience on both sides of the Atlantic - i trust n
Fortunately @razil myself @SE9 ADDICK @ken from bexley and a few others have already established a platform to build this from. You have thousands of fan contacts and thousands in the bank together with several well developed tactics.
Add this site, and all of the other with a common interest and that's quite a few thousand fans...Perhaps 10,000+?
Do you put that on I'll your marketing merchandise?
;-)
To us old 'uns alarm bells have started to ring (deja-vu all over again !!), but maybe our current predicament doesn't resonate with the younger fans in quite the same way.
A courteous and useful meeting. Anyone anticipating guerilla warfare to break out would have been disappointed, as would those expecting civil war amongst ourselves. An outstanding address from RE.
As far as the Owner is concerned, clearly we're doing something wrong. Perhaps someone more technically proficient than me could kindly look at the CZ Jena website and post the following (preferably in English !!) - one item is a letter from the coach sent yesterday to every club member encouraging attendance at Saturday's game (the first after the winter break) with a 50% ticket price reduction on presentation of said letter, and a second very interesting item, also from yesterday, concerns the formal signing up of an Advisory Council with various fan bodies and the Club, to act as a bridge between all parties. This appears to be a serious and binding commitment, and the agreement runs until the end of next year. If it's good enough for FCC, why not us as well?
I don't want to criticise those that went at all, I am just interested in how things like this can move things forward, in fact if anything I'm actually worried that a meeting of 400 supporters can't actually move anything forward without proper dialogue... Unfortunately it seems more like a group therapy session unless there's anything that can actually be done, which without network willing engagement, is nothing?
1. Roland's takeover APPEARS to mean that we are less likely to go bust or be wound up than when Slater and Jiminez/Cash were at the helm and wanting rid of us.
2. Nobody can explain the reason why a successful foreign businessman would want to create a 'network' of loss-making football teams and, given that he (via KM) has no obvious ambition to reach the Premiership money-train, we don't trust him and want answers/reassurance that his aims meet ours.
Am I right? If so, the Trust (or whoever represents us in attempting to get the contact/answers we crave) needs to achieve sight of his true business plan for CAFC. Once we think we have that, then we can be clearer on whether he truly is the devil or otherwise.
It's all about the business plan and our ability to be seen by the owner as relevant stakeholders in how the club is run and the medium/long term goals of the club. Roland appears to be a stubborn so and so and despite our wish for him to 'need to talk to te fans) there is a harsh reality for us that he simply does not have to. He is the owner and he can do what he damn wll pleases. If that means alienating the fans and losing revenue then you have to question the reasons why it would benefit him in doing that. Clearly, there would be no positive reasons; only sinister ones from our perspective.
I wish Steve and the Trust every success in battling to make a break through here. Please, please, please focus on the business plan with him as this will give us the best chance of him engaging with us by 'talking his language'.
http://chrispowellsflatcap.com/2015/02/19/thoughts-from-the-open-meeting/