Thing is, who would bother going to a meeting like this with a pro network mindset? Anyone who is pro network and therefore not as worried by the direction of the club isn't going to go out of their way to attend a supporters group meeting in Woolwich.
I am fairly pro network, I live in Woolwich and wouldn't dream of going along, as I know the majority of people there are of the opposite view to me and will not listen to my views. I'm not saying I'd necessarily listen to theirs either but that's life.
"Tonight was exactly what I expected. Big turnout of numbers (and that should not be played down in any way) of disenchanted people, but no singular approach and reason of why they are disenchanted and what should collectively be done about it."
So bar getting numbers together, what was the point?
Good meeting last night, well done to the organisers. Probably the most important part of the meeting was that there was one in the first place, rather than its content. Any new owner of our great club should undergo an history lesson. It doesn't go back too far so wont take up too much of their valuable time and would be very educational. But in a nutshell, the only real success in modern times for Charlton Athletic FC came about because our fans stood up to people (arrogant idiots) who thought they knew what was best for the club, but they were only leading us to ruin. Instead the fans, and this is the important part of the history lesson, the fans changed the trajectory to one which allowed us the become, albeit briefly, the fourth best team in the country. And an established Premiership club which other teams looked up to and were envious of. That is not discounting or belittling the role the board, a progressive CEO and a great manager had, but it was the fans that changed the path by doing something special.
I would also suggest that the owner gets a copy of Airman's speech. And to be fair, the whole meeting. But Airman is a prime example of somebody you ought to want with you rather than against you. This feels like a crossroads. It is not too late for the owner to have a change of heart. All fans are really asking is for a bit more respect and mutual communication. They can offer so much and can see it is madness not to use their experience (not the same as doing exactly as they say) and try to bring them along to the plan. A plan that has never properly been explained or sold to them.
Reading about another network club actually encouraging fans has made me think. Also reading about letters sent to the CEO that have gone unanswered and Wendy Perfect's eloquent article in the latest VOTV has made me think some more. Yes it is clear that Miere is Duchatelet's puppet, but she might just be a completely rubbish one. Maybe part of her role is to explain the direction and run the small details of the club and maybe she is too young and inexperienced (not necessarily an issue but maybe one for her) to make the right calls. There can't be any reasonable business plan, whatever it is, that advocates upsetting your customers. Sometimes it may be unavoidable, but surely in instances where it isn't it should be avoided.
What fans are asking for is to be listened to. Mistakes have been made that we could see were mistakes a mile off. And I am not talking about the playing side here. Maybe it isn't enough to charm people with a young pretty thing, when she doesn't have the communication, leadership skills or experience to do the job needed. I hope my next statement is not seen as sexist, some of the best, most inspirational managers I have seen in my life have been women. But a young driven woman, who feels she has to be strong and ruthless, well they have been some of the biggest disasters.
So if we are at the crossroads, the fact that many of the oldies that played such a successful part in modern Charlton history have been awoken and encouraged to put their DMs on is a great opportunity for the owner. They are a little bit older and don't want a war. They just want to be listened to and help this club -which we know is special - become successful again. If that message could get to the owner, maybe he will see that we are not being treated well and change things. Not change his plan, we know that won't happen, but change how we are communicated to and included and if his plan is a pathway to success, see how we can help him achieve it. Sell it to us and give us roles in it (via the trust). There are so many free workers available - from the strategic brains of Airman and Dixon to the fans who bring mates along. Some of these people were employed by the club in the past and having them work with it rather than against it was a great success because they were bloody good at their jobs. I actually thought that target 10,000 was too ambitious at the time. I do know that his club didn't previously have, or has now, somebody with the vision to pull something like that off. History is there to learn from Duchatelet. How can we help get the next generation of Charlton fans in - Miere's statement of Valley Express and focus on SW London is another recent example of how clueless and unsuitable she is for this task as she doesn't know. Is Peter Varney available?
Pleased i went, no masterplan tonight, but good to hear the different views. The pro Roland folk missed a trick tonight, you could have got your views across and you would have been applauded, mainly for having the bottle to speak. still don't worry you can go back to being keyboard warriors.
Some CL love to have a pop at Airman, you would have been disappointed tonight he didn't say we should storm his two chalets but keep on trying to put our points across for now.
The 71 year old chap who said we should by pass Katrien to get to Roland, by email or text or paper plane made a good case.
Covered end said we would have more chance with Murray than Katrien to get our message across.
Steve Dixon was very ani the network of clubs, and another couple of guys said they would rather us be in League 2 as long as we had a charlton fan/fans in charge. ? that would mean i would have to turn up and want us to lose,
sorry guys that not in my DNA to do that. But i do understand the sentiment.
I thought it was a good meeting. I expect Roland will improve communication as a result of it, although I don't expect it to be very reliable. It's going to be interesting to see what the next step will be if things don't improve.
Proposed that the Trust takes on lead role in dialogue with club.
And the trust have been told by KM that she doesn't believe in you.
I think I've got this now, this is the trust's way of saying look at us, look at how important we are & we've but on a big meeting - added to the ego trip from disgruntled ex employees and it all makes sense
I was there last night and I'm 27, so hopefully represent a younger generation of fans. I also took my dad along who is now a full CAST member!
I knew it would be well attended but didn't expect there to be 400 plus. It was packed!
It was a great evening and it was good to hear views from fans with different perspectives. No one was shouted down.
Airman Brown's speech was excellent and it's just a shame that the club aren't willing to take his advice on board. They're missing a trick there in my opinion.
We do have to keep trying for dialogue, first of all directly with Roland, and set him a deadline for a response. If that passes then we engage Richard Murray as it sounds as if he shares our concerns, privately at least. There's no point in trying to develop a relationship with Katrien as she's not interested, and in my view has underestimated our fans and is too dismissive of our ideas and proposals.
Proposed that the Trust takes on lead role in dialogue with club.
And the trust have been told by KM that she doesn't believe in you.
I think I've got this now, this is the trust's way of saying look at us, look at how important we are & we've but on a big meeting - added to the ego trip from disgruntled ex employees and it all makes sense
Did you go last night Ultra ? If so I'm surprised you could have come away with that opinion.
I think it was productive, although for a while it felt like regurgitated opinions from online. I realise that not all there spend time on message boards.
400 is a great turn out. Although Roland does not really bow to pressure, he did sack Luzon after Liege fans rioted. There is therefore some precedent.
Most people want more dialogue with the club but I’m in the camp that thinks that’ll be useless. We’d only get more lies.
In terms of actions I think it would be good to discuss ideas with Ujpest, Liege, etc. A Chris Powell chant in the third minute against Huddersfield would also go directly at Meire. I (rather feebly) mentioned the Trust contacting club sponsors, those with boxes and ad boards. Many of them will be Charlton fans – if they’re fed up then they’ll remove their thousands of pounds of backing and that will send a message.
Proposed that the Trust takes on lead role in dialogue with club.
And the trust have been told by KM that she doesn't believe in you.
I think I've got this now, this is the trust's way of saying look at us, look at how important we are & we've but on a big meeting - added to the ego trip from disgruntled ex employees and it all makes sense
Absolute tosh, you couldn't be farther from the truth, I am not a trust member. An excellent meeting and extremely stirring speech from Airman. I'm glad I was able to get there and any communication progress will be an improvement on the current state of affairs, might be slow but at least the ball has started rolling. Well done to all those fellow attendees last night whether pro or anti RD, you did our club proud.
I'm not a trust member (yet), nor do I have any strong feelings one way or the other about it, but I certainly did not find anything untoward by way of recruitment drives or Trust plugging last night at all. The meeting was very efficiently arranged and managed and a credit to the trust. Whether we are all pissing in the wind may be another story but the trust bashers have nothing to be concerned about from last night IMHO.
Wasn't there last night but wanted to add my appreciation to all those involved, whether organising, speaking or just caring enough about our club enough to come out on a freezing February night and engage with the process. Regardless of what side of the fence they are on.
On a day when a small section of football followers brought shame on their club, once again CAFC fans showed a level of maturity, understanding and a commitment to the long term well-being of their club that I struggle to imagine happening at any of the remaining 91 in the league.
The club would be wise to recognise that difference.
I echo what others say, it was a positive meeting, well managed and respectful of others' views. The general consensus was that of seeking proper dialog with the club. Several suggestions were put forward as to how to try and achieve that. Though because of time constraints none of those ideas were really tested, they were just put out there in the open.
If the meeting achieved nothing else, it was proof that Charlton fans have very genuine concerns for the way the club is being run and a very genuine willingness to help improve things. We've heard that the current owner wants to run the club as a business along a cautious and prudent path. It beggars belief that anyone whose mindset is to run a business in such a conscientious manner would not want to sit up and take notice when 400 customers turn up to a meeting to demonstrate their concern. It wasn't 400 people turning up for a free game of football or a picnic in the park and it wasn't just a bored bunch of e-protesters whinging online. It was 400 people who turned out on a freezing cold night to sit or stand for two hours in a decidedly chilly room to air their discomfort because they absolutely love this football club. Katrien, Roland, please stop ignoring us. We want this club to be successful more than anyone. There will always be a bulk of people who will follow Charlton come what may, but if your actions or omissions alienate fans you'll find it harder than ever to meet your business objectives. I don't say that as a threat, but as statement of reality.
Don't mean to be cynical but having followed the event on this site and Twitter, it seems like all that was achieved was a platform for the usual suspects to play politician. I just hope that this doesn't drive a bigger wedge between supporters and the club.
It seems to me that the meeting was a great success and did not live up to my own fears of how 'pro' views would be heard. So many, many congratulations to all concerned.
Just wanted to take this opportunity to say thanks for putting the meeting together last night. There were some great speakers from both sides of the arguments and it was nice to see things go off in a very civilised manner. It was well worth the miles I drove to be among fans that cared about the club (whether worried about RD or not) and I was pleased to see so many turn up.
Don't mean to be cynical but having followed the event on this site and Twitter, it seems like all that was achieved was a platform for the usual suspects to play politician. I just hope that this doesn't drive a bigger wedge between supporters and the club.
As that is the complete opposite of the desired objective, it's unlikely.
I echo what others say, it was a positive meeting, well managed and respectful of others' views. The general consensus was that of seeking proper dialog with the club. Several suggestions were put forward as to how to try and achieve that. Though because of time constraints none of those ideas were really tested, they were just put out there in the open.
If the meeting achieved nothing else, it was proof that Charlton fans have very genuine concerns for the way the club is being run and a very genuine willingness to help improve things. We've heard that the current owner wants to run the club as a business along a cautious and prudent path. It beggars belief that anyone whose mindset is to run a business in such a conscientious manner would not want to sit up and take notice when 400 customers turn up to a meeting to demonstrate their concern. It wasn't 400 people turning up for a free game of football or a picnic in the park and it wasn't just a bored bunch of e-protesters whinging online. It was 400 people who turned out on a freezing cold night to sit or stand for two hours in a decidedly chilly room to air their discomfort because they absolutely love this football club. Katrien, Roland, please stop ignoring us. We want this club to be successful more than anyone. There will always be a bulk of people who will follow Charlton come what may, but if your actions or omissions alienate fans you'll find it harder than ever to meet your business objectives. I don't say that as a threat, but as statement of reality.
Well said Stig. There will always be a bulk of people who follow Charlton come what may. I consider myself one of them with 40 years service man and boy. But people like you, me and most others on here are not the most important Charlton fans. They are the ones that are less committed and that we will lose or even the ones we may never gain. they are the ones who will make a difference. It is like the general election, it is all focused on the voters who float - the bankers are banked. The terrible communication and management of this regime has got to the fans Charlton should bank on, so how are we going to keep and attract the fans we need to to progress. I think Duchatelet might be best looking for a CEO who knows the Championship and has the desired communication skills. Sometimes it is not the direction, but the communication around it that messes everything up.
Don't mean to be cynical but having followed the event on this site and Twitter, it seems like all that was achieved was a platform for the usual suspects to play politician. I just hope that this doesn't drive a bigger wedge between supporters and the club.
If you were there, you would have seen that was not the case. Sure there were some prepared speakers, but actually, there were some very articulate views/speeches from the general fans. Whilst I have respect for the guys at the front, it was the views coming from the floor that moved me most, because these were heartfelt opinions from the average supporter.
"Tonight was exactly what I expected. Big turnout of numbers (and that should not be played down in any way) of disenchanted people, but no singular approach and reason of why they are disenchanted and what should collectively be done about it."
So bar getting numbers together, what was the point?
"Tonight was exactly what I expected. Big turnout of numbers (and that should not be played down in any way) of disenchanted people, but no singular approach and reason of why they are disenchanted and what should collectively be done about it."
So bar getting numbers together, what was the point?
"Tonight was exactly what I expected. Big turnout of numbers (and that should not be played down in any way) of disenchanted people, but no singular approach and reason of why they are disenchanted and what should collectively be done about it."
So bar getting numbers together, what was the point?
perhaps you should have come along?
Why not answer the question?
Anyway, pleased that it seems it didn't get hi-jacked by a more militant sect.
But as Falconwood_1 has said Having read this thread I still don't get the point.
The club have already told you where the lines of communication are, but seemingly that isn't good enough so you are going to continue (maybe, because it doesn't appear to be confirmed anywhere) to bang your heads against a Roland sized brickwall. Sorry, but no amount of "tub thumping" is going to bring him to the table.
Comments
So bar getting numbers together, what was the point?
I would also suggest that the owner gets a copy of Airman's speech. And to be fair, the whole meeting. But Airman is a prime example of somebody you ought to want with you rather than against you. This feels like a crossroads. It is not too late for the owner to have a change of heart. All fans are really asking is for a bit more respect and mutual communication. They can offer so much and can see it is madness not to use their experience (not the same as doing exactly as they say) and try to bring them along to the plan. A plan that has never properly been explained or sold to them.
Reading about another network club actually encouraging fans has made me think. Also reading about letters sent to the CEO that have gone unanswered and Wendy Perfect's eloquent article in the latest VOTV has made me think some more. Yes it is clear that Miere is Duchatelet's puppet, but she might just be a completely rubbish one. Maybe part of her role is to explain the direction and run the small details of the club and maybe she is too young and inexperienced (not necessarily an issue but maybe one for her) to make the right calls. There can't be any reasonable business plan, whatever it is, that advocates upsetting your customers. Sometimes it may be unavoidable, but surely in instances where it isn't it should be avoided.
What fans are asking for is to be listened to. Mistakes have been made that we could see were mistakes a mile off. And I am not talking about the playing side here. Maybe it isn't enough to charm people with a young pretty thing, when she doesn't have the communication, leadership skills or experience to do the job needed. I hope my next statement is not seen as sexist, some of the best, most inspirational managers I have seen in my life have been women. But a young driven woman, who feels she has to be strong and ruthless, well they have been some of the biggest disasters.
So if we are at the crossroads, the fact that many of the oldies that played such a successful part in modern Charlton history have been awoken and encouraged to put their DMs on is a great opportunity for the owner. They are a little bit older and don't want a war. They just want to be listened to and help this club -which we know is special - become successful again. If that message could get to the owner, maybe he will see that we are not being treated well and change things. Not change his plan, we know that won't happen, but change how we are communicated to and included and if his plan is a pathway to success, see how we can help him achieve it. Sell it to us and give us roles in it (via the trust). There are so many free workers available - from the strategic brains of Airman and Dixon to the fans who bring mates along. Some of these people were employed by the club in the past and having them work with it rather than against it was a great success because they were bloody good at their jobs. I actually thought that target 10,000 was too ambitious at the time. I do know that his club didn't previously have, or has now, somebody with the vision to pull something like that off. History is there to learn from Duchatelet. How can we help get the next generation of Charlton fans in - Miere's statement of Valley Express and focus on SW London is another recent example of how clueless and unsuitable she is for this task as she doesn't know. Is Peter Varney available?
I think I've got this now, this is the trust's way of saying look at us, look at how important we are & we've but on a big meeting - added to the ego trip from disgruntled ex employees and it all makes sense
I knew it would be well attended but didn't expect there to be 400 plus. It was packed!
It was a great evening and it was good to hear views from fans with different perspectives. No one was shouted down.
Airman Brown's speech was excellent and it's just a shame that the club aren't willing to take his advice on board. They're missing a trick there in my opinion.
We do have to keep trying for dialogue, first of all directly with Roland, and set him a deadline for a response. If that passes then we engage Richard Murray as it sounds as if he shares our concerns, privately at least. There's no point in trying to develop a relationship with Katrien as she's not interested, and in my view has underestimated our fans and is too dismissive of our ideas and proposals.
400 is a great turn out. Although Roland does not really bow to pressure, he did sack Luzon after Liege fans rioted. There is therefore some precedent.
Most people want more dialogue with the club but I’m in the camp that thinks that’ll be useless. We’d only get more lies.
In terms of actions I think it would be good to discuss ideas with Ujpest, Liege, etc. A Chris Powell chant in the third minute against Huddersfield would also go directly at Meire. I (rather feebly) mentioned the Trust contacting club sponsors, those with boxes and ad boards. Many of them will be Charlton fans – if they’re fed up then they’ll remove their thousands of pounds of backing and that will send a message.
On a day when a small section of football followers brought shame on their club, once again CAFC fans showed a level of maturity, understanding and a commitment to the long term well-being of their club that I struggle to imagine happening at any of the remaining 91 in the league.
The club would be wise to recognise that difference.
If the meeting achieved nothing else, it was proof that Charlton fans have very genuine concerns for the way the club is being run and a very genuine willingness to help improve things. We've heard that the current owner wants to run the club as a business along a cautious and prudent path. It beggars belief that anyone whose mindset is to run a business in such a conscientious manner would not want to sit up and take notice when 400 customers turn up to a meeting to demonstrate their concern. It wasn't 400 people turning up for a free game of football or a picnic in the park and it wasn't just a bored bunch of e-protesters whinging online. It was 400 people who turned out on a freezing cold night to sit or stand for two hours in a decidedly chilly room to air their discomfort because they absolutely love this football club. Katrien, Roland, please stop ignoring us. We want this club to be successful more than anyone. There will always be a bulk of people who will follow Charlton come what may, but if your actions or omissions alienate fans you'll find it harder than ever to meet your business objectives. I don't say that as a threat, but as statement of reality.
Just a small selection. more will be on the trust site late today........please click on them to expand
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perhaps you should have come along?
However others may feel, (and I am not going down the "disgruntled employee" route) he needs to take a step back.
There is an animosity there (not necessarily from his viewpoint) that will drive a wedge between the club and the fans if he remains so vociferous.
Anyway, pleased that it seems it didn't get hi-jacked by a more militant sect.
But as Falconwood_1 has said Having read this thread I still don't get the point.
The club have already told you where the lines of communication are, but seemingly that isn't good enough so you are going to continue (maybe, because it doesn't appear to be confirmed anywhere) to bang your heads against a Roland sized brickwall. Sorry, but no amount of "tub thumping" is going to bring him to the table.
So I ask the same question, what was the point?