I wasn't there last night due to this bloody frustrating operation causing complications. Anyway, I've read most of the comments and decided that I'm not emphatically in one camp or another.
However, I find some of the comments on here a little odd. For example, there wouldn't have been a meeting of we were higher up the league. Maybe we would be higher up, if disnt have network misfits foisted upon us as a first port of call. "People wouldn't ditch their season tickets if we were doing well". I'm not so sure. A lot of fans stayed away from Sellout even though we were in Division 1 after a 29 year gap. Okay, we haven't moved across london but this time I think a lot of people would stay away through apathy.
Personally, I don't like the idea of signing players purely because they are in the network - it reduces out market. And yes, I do realise we sign players from outside, but would we have signed some of the differs from the network if they had been based elsewhere ? None of us know what RD's intentions are but given his form at other clubs, hiring of managers and Meire's contribution, I would say at the very least that I wouldn't buy a second hand car off either of them.
question is, is 400 a good turn-out? In my opinion I was expecting to hear that closer to a 1,000 had been present. 400 is around 5% of our season ticket holders, even less of an average home crowd. To me this shows that less people are actually concerned at the moment than there are believed to be.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
No, but you just have, congratulations. I don't know what the local panning application to which you refer was about but if it was a recycling plant on my doorstep, I would have expected nearer 100% turn out, no offence like, get my drift?
question is, is 400 a good turn-out? In my opinion I was expecting to hear that closer to a 1,000 had been present. 400 is around 5% of our season ticket holders, even less of an average home crowd. To me this shows that less people are actually concerned at the moment than there are believed to be.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
I can't imagine you seriously thought one thousand people were going to attend the meeting ?
Based on my prior knowledge of the sort of numbers we get for these sort of things I thought we'd have 250, to get as many as we did was astonishing,
As suggested by @razil, I have emailed the CAST secretary with further thoughts. Thought I would post on here for wider information and/or debate:
So, what are the next steps as a result of last night's meeting?
There were some interesting thoughts put forward but I'm sure that many present will have thoughts to add. Nor was there the time or indeed the necessary process to debate and evaluate options.
My thoughts are as follows. Some of them were mentioned by others last night:
1. Vocalise dissatisfaction with the regime - before and after the game, but NOT during it, when we should get behind the team like never before. The contrast would be very clear.
2. Start a media campaign - which must make very clear what we are dissatisfied about and what we actually want to happen.
3. Visual protest - the young guy who had the banner saying "Made in Charlton, Destroyed in Belgium" confiscated has, I believe been threatened with a stadium ban. Get T shirts made with that slogan on, and sell them, and reveal them at a game. They can't ban that many people.
4. Prepare a business case for supporter engagement and inclusion - which says, in hard business as well as emotional terms why RD should engage with us. Include a specific proposal for a different type of Fans Forum where regular meetings are held with representatives of supporters groups on jointly proposed agenda items.
5. Liaise with other network clubs supporters groups - for sharing of best practice, shared learning, mutual support and co-ordinated protests.
6. Explore the possibility of challenging RD's network model through the FA, UEFA and FIFA - looking specifically at the issues associated with intra-network loans and transfers (fairness and financial transparency), shared resources, impact on the competitiveness of individual network components (clubs).
7. Engage with Richard Murray - to potentially act as an initial means of approaching RD and as a facilitator.
8. Communicate with fans - to explain what is being done and why, seek to assure those who are concerned at protests/actions. It is important to avoid personal insults and denigrating comments about RD, KM and GL, which will only alienate those who are positive about the regime.
question is, is 400 a good turn-out? In my opinion I was expecting to hear that closer to a 1,000 had been present. 400 is around 5% of our season ticket holders, even less of an average home crowd. To me this shows that less people are actually concerned at the moment than there are believed to be.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
No, but you just have, congratulations. I don't know what the local panning application to which you refer was about but if it was a recycling plant on my doorstep, I would have expected nearer 100% turn out, no offence like, get my drift?
question is, is 400 a good turn-out? In my opinion I was expecting to hear that closer to a 1,000 had been present. 400 is around 5% of our season ticket holders, even less of an average home crowd. To me this shows that less people are actually concerned at the moment than there are believed to be.
to put it in context, our local village had the same turn-out to discuss a local planning application out of 2,000 local residents, so a 20% turn-out.
this isn't to denigrate the meeting, or those that attended, but maybe it shows that those that did are actually in a minority.
I don't know the exact stats but would surmise that a quarter or more of fans live 30 miles or more from The Valley. A long way by either road or public transport with work the next day so only the most dedicated would physically attend and others may have used the various other methods of communication (survey etc) to make their views known.
To put in context strolling a few hundred yards up the road for a meeting is a bit different to a 60 mile round trip at night to a dodgy area like Woolwich (no criticism intended) which might deter the many older fans amongst our support.
I think a turnout of 400 was excellent all things considered especially when there was no 'specific' as such to mobilise behind like your village's planning application.
As suggested by @razil, I have emailed the CAST secretary with further thoughts. Thought I would post on here for wider information and/or debate:
So, what are the next steps as a result of last night's meeting?
There were some interesting thoughts put forward but I'm sure that many present will have thoughts to add. Nor was there the time or indeed the necessary process to debate and evaluate options.
My thoughts are as follows. Some of them were mentioned by others last night:
1. Vocalise dissatisfaction with the regime - before and after the game, but NOT during it, when we should get behind the team like never before. The contrast would be very clear.
2. Start a media campaign - which must make very clear what we are dissatisfied about and what we actually want to happen.
3. Visual protest - the young guy who had the banner saying "Made in Charlton, Destroyed in Belgium" confiscated has, I believe been threatened with a stadium ban. Get T shirts made with that slogan on, and sell them, and reveal them at a game. They can't ban that many people.
I have been trying to keep up but does this mean that the agreed outcomes from last night included the support and organisation of fan coordinated protests at games etc ?
I hate to burst your bubble but these meetings will not change a thing.
The only way to get our collective point across (whatever it is), is to have 4 or 5 fans to meet KM and open a dialogue of transparent (where possible) communication with the club. Or how about a fans supporter on the board, just a thought!
Almost contradictory! The whole point of this meeting is to come up with these sort of plans and how to execute them in a proper fashion, so the meetings WILL change a thing. Good plans don't fall into place on their own without hard work and teamwork.
As suggested by @razil, I have emailed the CAST secretary with further thoughts. Thought I would post on here for wider information and/or debate:
So, what are the next steps as a result of last night's meeting?
There were some interesting thoughts put forward but I'm sure that many present will have thoughts to add. Nor was there the time or indeed the necessary process to debate and evaluate options.
My thoughts are as follows. Some of them were mentioned by others last night:
1. Vocalise dissatisfaction with the regime - before and after the game, but NOT during it, when we should get behind the team like never before. The contrast would be very clear.
2. Start a media campaign - which must make very clear what we are dissatisfied about and what we actually want to happen.
3. Visual protest - the young guy who had the banner saying "Made in Charlton, Destroyed in Belgium" confiscated has, I believe been threatened with a stadium ban. Get T shirts made with that slogan on, and sell them, and reveal them at a game. They can't ban that many people.
I have been trying to keep up but does this mean that the agreed outcomes from last night included the support and organisation of fan coordinated protests at games etc ?
There were no outcomes agreed last night, just views and ideas put forward. The task now is for a few people, I guess co-ordinated by the Trust, to distill all the inputs into a set of next steps. This is simply my thoughts for consideration.
3. Visual protest - the young guy who had the banner saying "Made in Charlton, Destroyed in Belgium" confiscated has, I believe been threatened with a stadium ban. Get T shirts made with that slogan on, and sell them, and reveal them at a game. They can't ban that many people.
My problem with such banners is that they are far too simplistic, as the club HASN'T been destroyed by RD and his network.
If they had bought us in 2005 when we were an established PL club that was a role model of what a medium club should be like, and turned it into what we are now, then yes it would be true, but an awful lot of mistakes have been made by other people on the way.
Personally I think KM is a bit out of her depth, as she has NO relevant experience at running an organisation of this size and being the public face as opposed to being a behind the scenes professional, but Les Reed was also out of his depth when made manager...
3. Visual protest - the young guy who had the banner saying "Made in Charlton, Destroyed in Belgium" confiscated has, I believe been threatened with a stadium ban. Get T shirts made with that slogan on, and sell them, and reveal them at a game. They can't ban that many people.
My problem with such banners is that they are far too simplistic, as the club HASN'T been destroyed by RD and his network.
If they had bought us in 2005 when we were an established PL club that was a role model of what a medium club should be like, and turned it into what we are now, then yes it would be true, but an awful lot of mistakes have been made by other people on the way.
Personally I think KM is a bit out of her depth, as she has NO relevant experience at running an organisation of this size and being the public face as opposed to being a behind the scenes professional, but Les Reed was also out of his depth when made manager...
Fair point - but can a slogan short enough for a T shirt or banner convey the exact spirit? I guess we could have one saying "we're worried" but it might be less likely to attract media attention! I personally would prefer "WILL NOT BE" put in between the Made in Charlton and Destroyed in Belgium parts - but it makes it way too long. Maybe the genius' behind the Back to the Valley poster campaign will improve on the idea, if indeed some form of visual protest is made.
Is 400 a good turn out? 1) It would have been higher if we hadn't won last Saturday but I prefer a more mellow atmosphere and nothing actually changed with that win. 2) that's 400 more than if nobody had bothered to make a move and a big first step 3) 100 have joined the Trust as a result of the meeting being announced and perhaps 100 more join now. Katrien Meire states she won't discuss club strategy with the representatives of 1,000 paid up members... So 1,000 isn't enough for her! 4) Meanwhile VIP just ended, closed - another Q&A gone
If the club wants to proactively manage the comms agenda it needs to engage. What precisely is it afraid of? The fans who helped put the club back on the map? Or that the strategy and execution will be exposed?
Public meetings is only one activity - this thread has 57,000 views and the VIP meeting has 25,000 - is that enough?!
No one expects to pick the team nor for the owner to spend countless millions for rubbish footballers with no return. But they do expect (and some demand) competence in the leadership and delivery of strategy at our club.
the club told us they had nothing to add, then immediately went out when we organised this meeting and did a PR stunt with a 15 year old lad.
The point of the meeting was as has been stated, earlier on. I understand people being realistic, but why not go to the meeting rather than slating it?
The very least of it is to show that there are a lot of genuinely concerned fans who see that that something is going badly wrong including the quite public falling away of some of our long term supporters. Personally I think that is reason enough. People last night braved the cold to go to a public meeting, with no players, no club reps, and packed out a hall.
There weren't 25 or a hundred there were over 400 and I think thats a big deal personally. It was a positive act by people who want to do something rather than just bitch about it on message boards. I take it pretty seriously as it hasn't happened for nearly a generation at this club.
What comes next is important I agree, we'll see what happens over coming weeks, I think reasonably last night achieved all it was going to, not an easy thing to do in itself. How much further it goes will depend how deep the feeling runs among fans.
To answer Marks point from Twitter, 'we' did have public meetings during the TJ era, we formed a supporters' trust if you recall, and we did it through a lot of hard work, from the first 100 members to now 1100 who give up their fivers for very few benefits if any, other than supporting the Trust. We built it by standing in the rain talking to real fans, and giving out TNT.
Razil in defensive response shocker......
Who's slating the meeting? I've said all along "good luck to you, but I don't think you'll achieve anything"
I'm still struggling. You got 400 people in a room. Some of them expressed concerns about the ownership, 100s of people have been doing the same thing on the internet for months. Why is this any different?
Clem, it's a fair question. Personally I think there were a few things achieved last night, and at the very least they are stepping stones to other things. Remember it took 4-5 years from the first responses to leaving the Valley to the 1990 meeting that confirmed we were going home. It's step 1.
Some things accomplished last night: - We had a genuine opportunity for all views to be heard - trust me on that; reports suggesting Steve questioned only the pro RD response were very far wide of the mark. - It brought a wide range of supporters together to agree a united initial purpose. This in itself shouldn't be underestimated. - That agreement gave a mandate from across the supporter base for increased efforts for meaningful dialogue. - It therefore cannot be positioned by the club as the Supporters' Trust board representing the voice of just its own members. It is a unified response, which was the objective of the meeting. - It made people more aware of present realities, such as the club's preferred organ for dialogue communication on their own terms - the Fans' Forum - meeting just 3 times in 2014 due to the club cancelling it.
I imagine there were considerably more there last night than at the inauguration of the Supporters' Trust, and at the start of the Back to the Valley campaign (although happy to be corrected). Even so, 400 people is quite something for a meeting that won't achieve anything.
I'm pleased as well that so many people got to hear Rick Everitt's empassioned speech. Got a standing ovation and deserved it.
Let's see where what was agreed takes us. Even small steps are steps forward.
As suggested by @razil, I have emailed the CAST secretary with further thoughts. Thought I would post on here for wider information and/or debate:
So, what are the next steps as a result of last night's meeting?
There were some interesting thoughts put forward but I'm sure that many present will have thoughts to add. Nor was there the time or indeed the necessary process to debate and evaluate options.
My thoughts are as follows. Some of them were mentioned by others last night:
1. Vocalise dissatisfaction with the regime - before and after the game, but NOT during it, when we should get behind the team like never before. The contrast would be very clear.
2. Start a media campaign - which must make very clear what we are dissatisfied about and what we actually want to happen.
3. Visual protest - the young guy who had the banner saying "Made in Charlton, Destroyed in Belgium" confiscated has, I believe been threatened with a stadium ban. Get T shirts made with that slogan on, and sell them, and reveal them at a game. They can't ban that many people.
4. Prepare a business case for supporter engagement and inclusion - which says, in hard business as well as emotional terms why RD should engage with us. Include a specific proposal for a different type of Fans Forum where regular meetings are held with representatives of supporters groups on jointly proposed agenda items.
5. Liaise with other network clubs supporters groups - for sharing of best practice, shared learning, mutual support and co-ordinated protests.
6. Explore the possibility of challenging RD's network model through the FA, UEFA and FIFA - looking specifically at the issues associated with intra-network loans and transfers (fairness and financial transparency), shared resources, impact on the competitiveness of individual network components (clubs).
7. Engage with Richard Murray - to potentially act as an initial means of approaching RD and as a facilitator.
8. Communicate with fans - to explain what is being done and why, seek to assure those who are concerned at protests/actions. It is important to avoid personal insults and denigrating comments about RD, KM and GL, which will only alienate those who are positive about the regime.
This is, primarily, all negative. From what I heard at the meeting last night, this is not what has been advocated by the majority.
The majority support was for more dialogue with the club, not any type of direct action ... or did I hear it wrong?
Is 400 a good turn out? 1) It would have been higher if we hadn't won last Saturday but I prefer a more mellow atmosphere and nothing actually changed with that win. 2) that's 400 more than if nobody had bothered to make a move and a big first step 3) 100 have joined the Trust as a result of the meeting being announced and perhaps 100 more join now. Katrien Meire states she won't discuss club strategy with the representatives of 1,000 paid up members... So 1,000 isn't enough for her! 4) Meanwhile VIP just ended, closed - another Q&A gone
If the club wants to proactively manage the comms agenda it needs to engage. What precisely is it afraid of? The fans who helped put the club back on the map? Or that the strategy and execution will be exposed?
Public meetings is only one activity - this thread has 57,000 views and the VIP meeting has 25,000 - is that enough?!
No one expects to pick the team nor for the owner to spend countless millions for rubbish footballers with no return. But they do expect (and some demand) competence in the leadership and delivery of strategy at our club.
This is a good point and one that came to mind when watching the VIP meeting. She says she won't meet with one set of fans over another…when that's exactly what she's doing when meeting with the VIP group. 1,000 full members is more than enough. No one is asking her to meet with all 1,000 of us. A meeting with the Trust board would suffice.
Well done to everyone that went to the meeting last night. I didn't attend as I had my reservations about being heard but was glad to hear both sides of the argument were listened to. I'm not pro or anti, but they took over the club just over a year ago, when we were a mess and have given us a solid financial footing. Mistakes have been made although player recruitment was better in the Summer. If we keep the majority of the squad together and add 3/4 quality players who knows ? Obviously the Peeters/Luzon debacle hasn't helped matters and this meeting shows how the fans care. I don't want RD out as I think he is here for the long term and as Henry has said many times, it will be a bumpy ride but long term I think we will be ok. Dialogue is needed with RD
As suggested by @razil, I have emailed the CAST secretary with further thoughts. Thought I would post on here for wider information and/or debate:
So, what are the next steps as a result of last night's meeting?
There were some interesting thoughts put forward but I'm sure that many present will have thoughts to add. Nor was there the time or indeed the necessary process to debate and evaluate options.
My thoughts are as follows. Some of them were mentioned by others last night:
1. Vocalise dissatisfaction with the regime - before and after the game, but NOT during it, when we should get behind the team like never before. The contrast would be very clear.
2. Start a media campaign - which must make very clear what we are dissatisfied about and what we actually want to happen.
3. Visual protest - the young guy who had the banner saying "Made in Charlton, Destroyed in Belgium" confiscated has, I believe been threatened with a stadium ban. Get T shirts made with that slogan on, and sell them, and reveal them at a game. They can't ban that many people.
4. Prepare a business case for supporter engagement and inclusion - which says, in hard business as well as emotional terms why RD should engage with us. Include a specific proposal for a different type of Fans Forum where regular meetings are held with representatives of supporters groups on jointly proposed agenda items.
5. Liaise with other network clubs supporters groups - for sharing of best practice, shared learning, mutual support and co-ordinated protests.
6. Explore the possibility of challenging RD's network model through the FA, UEFA and FIFA - looking specifically at the issues associated with intra-network loans and transfers (fairness and financial transparency), shared resources, impact on the competitiveness of individual network components (clubs).
7. Engage with Richard Murray - to potentially act as an initial means of approaching RD and as a facilitator.
8. Communicate with fans - to explain what is being done and why, seek to assure those who are concerned at protests/actions. It is important to avoid personal insults and denigrating comments about RD, KM and GL, which will only alienate those who are positive about the regime.
This is, primarily, all negative. From what I heard at the meeting last night, this is not what has been advocated by the majority.
The majority support was for more dialogue with the club, not any type of direct action ... or did I hear it wrong?
Just my own thoughts. I disagree that they are all negative, anyway, but I very much doubt that just asking nicely again will suddenly open RD/KM to more meaningful two-way engagement. We might have to do something a little different to encourage them to want to engage.
Edit. ps please note the absence of season ticket strikes, stopping buying food and drink, picketing club shop or any other form of what I would regard as quite aggressive actions.
Would people buy red/white/black cotton t-shirts to wear on match days that are plastered with various supporters groups logos but also have slogans on them such as "Roland, talk to us" or "Support the team, not the regime"? These are rough/crude ideas I know but is a simple way of showing unity in our approach.
I am behind setting a deadline for some meaningful communication with RD himself and also fully in support of a boycott of food/drink at the Valley if that's the way people decide we go.
Comments
Anyway, I've read most of the comments and decided that I'm not emphatically in one camp or another.
However, I find some of the comments on here a little odd.
For example, there wouldn't have been a meeting of we were higher up the league. Maybe we would be higher up, if disnt have network misfits foisted upon us as a first port of call.
"People wouldn't ditch their season tickets if we were doing well". I'm not so sure. A lot of fans stayed away from Sellout even though we were in Division 1 after a 29 year gap. Okay, we haven't moved across london but this time I think a lot of people would stay away through apathy.
Personally, I don't like the idea of signing players purely because they are in the network - it reduces out market. And yes, I do realise we sign players from outside, but would we have signed some of the differs from the network if they had been based elsewhere ?
None of us know what RD's intentions are but given his form at other clubs, hiring of managers and Meire's contribution, I would say at the very least that I wouldn't buy a second hand car off either of them.
Based on my prior knowledge of the sort of numbers we get for these sort of things I thought we'd have 250, to get as many as we did was astonishing,
So, what are the next steps as a result of last night's meeting?
There were some interesting thoughts put forward but I'm sure that many present will have thoughts to add. Nor was there the time or indeed the necessary process to debate and evaluate options.
My thoughts are as follows. Some of them were mentioned by others last night:
1. Vocalise dissatisfaction with the regime - before and after the game, but NOT during it, when we should get behind the team like never before. The contrast would be very clear.
2. Start a media campaign - which must make very clear what we are dissatisfied about and what we actually want to happen.
3. Visual protest - the young guy who had the banner saying "Made in Charlton, Destroyed in Belgium" confiscated has, I believe been threatened with a stadium ban. Get T shirts made with that slogan on, and sell them, and reveal them at a game. They can't ban that many people.
4. Prepare a business case for supporter engagement and inclusion - which says, in hard business as well as emotional terms why RD should engage with us. Include a specific proposal for a different type of Fans Forum where regular meetings are held with representatives of supporters groups on jointly proposed agenda items.
5. Liaise with other network clubs supporters groups - for sharing of best practice, shared learning, mutual support and co-ordinated protests.
6. Explore the possibility of challenging RD's network model through the FA, UEFA and FIFA - looking specifically at the issues associated with intra-network loans and transfers (fairness and financial transparency), shared resources, impact on the competitiveness of individual network components (clubs).
7. Engage with Richard Murray - to potentially act as an initial means of approaching RD and as a facilitator.
8. Communicate with fans - to explain what is being done and why, seek to assure those who are concerned at protests/actions. It is important to avoid personal insults and denigrating comments about RD, KM and GL, which will only alienate those who are positive about the regime.
To put in context strolling a few hundred yards up the road for a meeting is a bit different to a 60 mile round trip at night to a dodgy area like Woolwich (no criticism intended) which might deter the many older fans amongst our support.
I think a turnout of 400 was excellent all things considered especially when there was no 'specific' as such to mobilise behind like your village's planning application.
good job with your speech mate!
If they had bought us in 2005 when we were an established PL club that was a role model of what a medium club should be like, and turned it into what we are now, then yes it would be true, but an awful lot of mistakes have been made by other people on the way.
Personally I think KM is a bit out of her depth, as she has NO relevant experience at running an organisation of this size and being the public face as opposed to being a behind the scenes professional, but Les Reed was also out of his depth when made manager...
1) It would have been higher if we hadn't won last Saturday but I prefer a more mellow atmosphere and nothing actually changed with that win.
2) that's 400 more than if nobody had bothered to make a move and a big first step
3) 100 have joined the Trust as a result of the meeting being announced and perhaps 100 more join now. Katrien Meire states she won't discuss club strategy with the representatives of 1,000 paid up members... So 1,000 isn't enough for her!
4) Meanwhile VIP just ended, closed - another Q&A gone
If the club wants to proactively manage the comms agenda it needs to engage. What precisely is it afraid of? The fans who helped put the club back on the map? Or that the strategy and execution will be exposed?
Public meetings is only one activity - this thread has 57,000 views and the VIP meeting has 25,000 - is that enough?!
No one expects to pick the team nor for the owner to spend countless millions for rubbish footballers with no return. But they do expect (and some demand) competence in the leadership and delivery of strategy at our club.
Some things accomplished last night:
- We had a genuine opportunity for all views to be heard - trust me on that; reports suggesting Steve questioned only the pro RD response were very far wide of the mark.
- It brought a wide range of supporters together to agree a united initial purpose. This in itself shouldn't be underestimated.
- That agreement gave a mandate from across the supporter base for increased efforts for meaningful dialogue.
- It therefore cannot be positioned by the club as the Supporters' Trust board representing the voice of just its own members. It is a unified response, which was the objective of the meeting.
- It made people more aware of present realities, such as the club's preferred organ for
dialoguecommunication on their own terms - the Fans' Forum - meeting just 3 times in 2014 due to the club cancelling it.I imagine there were considerably more there last night than at the inauguration of the Supporters' Trust, and at the start of the Back to the Valley campaign (although happy to be corrected). Even so, 400 people is quite something for a meeting that won't achieve anything.
I'm pleased as well that so many people got to hear Rick Everitt's empassioned speech. Got a standing ovation and deserved it.
Let's see where what was agreed takes us. Even small steps are steps forward.
LOL moment while watching the first video.
The majority support was for more dialogue with the club, not any type of direct action ... or did I hear it wrong?
.
Edit. ps please note the absence of season ticket strikes, stopping buying food and drink, picketing club shop or any other form of what I would regard as quite aggressive actions.
I am behind setting a deadline for some meaningful communication with RD himself and also fully in support of a boycott of food/drink at the Valley if that's the way people decide we go.