I just want to hear the sound of my alarm clock go off, slowly open my eyes and have that amazing realisation that it was just a terrible dream.
Me and you both.
Going to be at Watford but won't bother with the next home game I don't think. Will be staying in the pub.
Let me know where mate, genuinely, and I'll join you.
Fuck that. I'm behind the guy but his appointment is a joke.
I take a perverse pleasure in the uproar on CharltonLife; because I KNOW this will get back to the board. Get this Katrien: you've been played for a lying fool and you've managed to get our new manager to look equally moronic. The only one that comes out of this smiling is Roly.
Maybe if we meet up Greenie then we could sketch out some tattoo ideas for a "Luzon out" tattoo on our arses too
I am dismayed at the attitude on this thread. The negativity is very disturbing. And, it appears to be catching. I hope you will still be supporting the team because it doesn't sound like it. Mob rule and hysteria can start to get out of control if not reined in a bit. I, for one, don't want to jump on this bandwagon.
I'm trying to be tactful here, because I do understand that people are pissed off at the perceived handling of the Guy Luzon appointment. The feeling that we've had the wool pulled over our eyes by the statements coming out of the club etc., etc.
However, I do want to try to draw this in a bit. The performances and results had been going steadily downhill for 3 months. That was painfully obvious. And it had slowly become apparent that there was a growing dissention within the dressing room which was very disturbing. So, what did RD do? He showed intent by acting quickly and removing the cause of those problems swiftly. He didn't wait another month to see how things would go but acted positively and decisively. Bob Peeters was removed. I view that as a positive. OK, it can be said that BP was his appointment in the first place but everyone makes mistakes and, obviously, BP was a mistake and RD was prepared to correct that quickly. No messing. RD had probably seen how things were going with BP for a few weeks and in that time he, almost certainly, lined up Luzon. After all Luzon had been successful for him at SL and with a 44% overall win ratio in his career you can see why RD rates him. He is also young and it appears RD likes 'young guns'. I believe that is why Riga wasn't extended for this season.
So, I think RD has acted positively and quickly which aligns with the other improvements he has made at our club over the past few months. It can be argued, why did the club attempt a PR exercise rather than just saying it as it was. I can understand those sentiments but I, for one, have no idea what really went on so I'd rather not focus on the unknowns but instead focus on the positives. I don't think too much of a negative spin should be put on this.
So, in summary, I think the negativity can be very destructive. Instead, let's get our feet back on the ground and look at what has been achieved for our club by RD up to now. In my opinion that has been mostly positive including this current move. We should now start to put this all behind us starting with the Watford game this Saturday.
And, ultimately, the true legacy of this 'manager/coach' change will be the ensuing results and no one has a crystal ball for that, regardless of who the new appointee would have been. Not even Roland. So let's get behind him because I believe he is doing what he sees as best for the club.
If anyone wanted proof that our club has become a rich mans experimental shambles, the chaotic press conference was it. We, the supporters, the only stable asset this club now has, are being taken for complete fools by RD & KM. We are being lied to time and time again. The trouble is we feel powerless to do anything about it.
Any suggestions?
A very confused and angry,
Willieduff
Getting behind the 11 men on the pitch and trying to ignore the utter idiocy that is going on above their level right now.
Something tells me they haven't had it easy. Anyone that points to their paycheck has never had a good earning job but worked under a complete cock.
Money aside; if they weren't happy then they did the right thing by escalating their complaints.
However; getting rid of Peeters doesn't excuse the shambolic way it's been handled since; a sacked network manager thrown in to the media circus with seemingly no prep, whilst the fans are angry after being lied too.
I'll get behind the 11 on the pitch, the bench and the manager... But I still think its been handled laughably.
I've only just watched the press conference video. Reading this thread I was expecting a babbling, incoherent interview. I don't know what most of you expected. I've seen worse interviews with seasoned English managers. I thought his English was pretty decent and he obviously misinterpreted the back room staff question, I doubt back room is a word with which he is acquainted. I'm really disappointed with many, many comments in this thread . Give Guy a chance, it's not his fault he's been appointed, he may yet surprise us.
I've only just watched the press conference video. Reading this thread I was expecting a babbling, incoherent interview. I don't know what most of you expected. I've seen worse interviews with seasoned English managers. I thought his English was pretty decent and he obviously misinterpreted the back room staff question, I doubt back room is a word with which he is acquainted. I'm really disappointed with many, many comments in this thread . Give Guy a chance, it's not his fault he's been appointed, he may yet surprise us.
Large; I agree with you completely. Despite my moaning and contradictory views, we need to separate responsibilities here. Even if we're angry, we need to remember who is and isn't responsible.
If you pick the smoothest of British managers and ask them to give an interview in their second language then they would fail. I ponder how Moyes' intro interview was? (Not saying he's the smoothest or greatest of managers; but an example!)
However I don't think most of us are angry at, or have much against, Guy. Its his appointment and the way its been handled which is a shambles. Maybe some of us see him as the easy target?
I'm sure we all hope Guy does well and we're proved wrong; but personally I feel lied to by Katrien and the regime she represents. I also feel a little apprehensive about a manager who provoked riots elsewhere in the network. I think most of the negative nancies are just like me; disappointed and angry at the ownership.
Have a like though; as you're 100% right mate; the appointment and media circus was shambolic but he didn't organise it on his flight to Gatwick. Neither did he lie to us previously. Furthermore; he's in control now and we need to get behind him to get behind our lads.
Its not easy; but we're fans who get behind the club - even if we struggle to get behind the owners. We just need to remember that the owners and their decisions aren't equal to the club.
The way to shut us up is to win matches. Losing isn't an option. We have to win away at Watford this Saturday or Luzon is, in that context, manifestly useless.
As I have said before on a few occasions I'm happy to give Luzon a go, not my first choice but there we go. I'm CAFC through and through and managers/head coaches come and go, however I'm not prepared to be lied to by the 'board'...RD/KM and it would appear sadly RM, have lied quite clearly. How can you decide to get rid of a manager after a Saturday afternoon game, announce it on Sunday evening then recieve 20 applications, carry out CV reviews and shifts, release a statement syaing we are going to make sure this time we get the right person for the 'long haul' carry out full and proper interviews (if only for 4 or 5 candidates) make sure you have the right person with the right credentials and then appoint that person within a few hours....total bullshit!!
I always read threads back to front if it's the first time I've opened them and we're a few pages in. This was the first post I read. Spot on.
One can only assume they've got some online recruitment tool to get the man for the job in that quick a time.
Anyone familiar with them will know they filter out applications that don't have certain words to save time.
I can only assume off the back of that those words that got Luzon through were
Network Standard Roland Thuram
If I'd have been a bit cleverer I could've sent my cv in, included some of these words and may have had a chance.
In all seriousness, to say we had 20 applications from Sunday night, to yesterday afternoon when Luzon was appointed is farcical.
They would've been better off saying 'we thought the team weren't performing to the best of their ability under Peeters, the form was poor, we needed to make a change now rather than wait a bit longer. Because we are in a network of clubs that allowed us to take advantage of getting Guy in quickly. Guy is a good coach having delivered at SL blah blah blah'
We all know this was a done deal. We all know we are in a network and RD does as he sees fit. There was never any point in pretending otherwise. I just don't get the lies. If people aren't happy with the network then they can, and by the looks of some reactions, will vote with their feet.
They (rightly or wrongly) made the decision to get rid of Peeters, no need to sugar coat it
Ideally, you're right about how it should have been done, although very few clubs (or other organisations) would be brave enough to do so. They may well wish they had, but now it will, just as it always does, be decided on results.
The "feeder club" fear has been largely blown away and being in a network, which is in reality quite loose has advantages as well. Would we have got Watt as stand alone CAFC?
In my opinion the one network player we've received who is clearly a level above us (and whom therefore we could not expect to have signed on the open market) is Yoni Buyens. TBH has done well, however at his age I'd argue he would have been within our reach anyway.
Buyens though has not quite lived up to his reputation from Standard overall. I am not sure why that is. He was described by Douglas de Coninck as box to box, seems to me that was not the game Peeters asked him to play. Whatever, the indications are that Luzon is less rather than more likely to get the best from him (although our info is that his relationship with Luzon was not the main reason why he needed to leave Standard).
I can see how the network system could work effectively. I do not think that it actually has done yet, for any of the clubs. It remains unclear who makes network decisions on the "human resources" and on what criteria. The suspicion is that we got Watt mainly because he was sitting in a box marked "spare striker", rather than being the type of striker the manager had identified as being our need, to play in a certain way. Now, I personally have the suspicion that we got Luzon because he was sitting in a box marked "spare head coach". I would love to be proved wrong, and am really interested in being put right by RD himself. However not only has RD declined to provide us with such an explanation, with Luzon he appears to have gone a stage further and staged a "process" which appears designed to mislead us into thinking it works in a different and more sophisticated way than that which I have just described.
The only point on which I agree with you is that the "feeder" club concern has been shown to be invalid. That conclusion however comes from a study of what has happened at Standard rather than at CAFC.
The way to shut us up is to win matches. Losing isn't an option. We have to win away at Watford this Saturday or Luzon is, in that context, manifestly useless.
Replace Luzon for Riga and Watford for Huddersfield, that is pretty much what you said last March when Riga was appointed.
Give the bloke a chance at least. DId we want the man as head coach? Did you seriously expect anything different? Riga turned most supporters around with the results gained to keep us up. Luzon may repeat that but don't condemn the man before a ball had been kicked.
Granted we are being taken for fools by the owner and CEO, however is that Luzon's fault?
In an ideal world most of us would like a championship experienced manager, but under the current owner that may never happen.
Go to the next 2 away games or wait till the Rotherham home game and demonstrate your anger then. Make sure it's towards the directors box and not the players or management.
Yes RD done the correct thing in sacking bob, 100% but his decision to put Luzon in charge is nothing short of disgraceful.
Those saying it isn't GL's fault.. It is. If he hadn't of let himself be RD's puppet at standard then I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't be here.
As I have said before on a few occasions I'm happy to give Luzon a go, not my first choice but there we go. I'm CAFC through and through and managers/head coaches come and go, however I'm not prepared to be lied to by the 'board'...RD/KM and it would appear sadly RM, have lied quite clearly. How can you decide to get rid of a manager after a Saturday afternoon game, announce it on Sunday evening then recieve 20 applications, carry out CV reviews and shifts, release a statement syaing we are going to make sure this time we get the right person for the 'long haul' carry out full and proper interviews (if only for 4 or 5 candidates) make sure you have the right person with the right credentials and then appoint that person within a few hours....total bullshit!!
Watch that ticker @Redmidland. We want you around when these shysters are long gone.
I will @Davo55, just a little annoyed that people are telling blatant lies, KM who I had the up-most respect for has badly let herself down, just in the manner she answered the question at the press conference, body language and voice give it all away in my opinion and she didn't interview other candidates, she MAY have looked at the CV's but nothing beyond that I fear.
I am dismayed at the attitude on this thread. The negativity is very disturbing. And, it appears to be catching. I hope you will still be supporting the team because it doesn't sound like it. Mob rule and hysteria can start to get out of control if not reined in a bit. I, for one, don't want to jump on this bandwagon.
I'm trying to be tactful here, because I do understand that people are pissed off at the perceived handling of the Guy Luzon appointment. The feeling that we've had the wool pulled over our eyes by the statements coming out of the club etc., etc.
However, I do want to try to draw this in a bit. The performances and results had been going steadily downhill for 3 months. That was painfully obvious. And it had slowly become apparent that there was a growing dissention within the dressing room which was very disturbing. So, what did RD do? He showed intent by acting quickly and removing the cause of those problems swiftly. He didn't wait another month to see how things would go but acted positively and decisively. Bob Peeters was removed. I view that as a positive. OK, it can be said that BP was his appointment in the first place but everyone makes mistakes and, obviously, BP was a mistake and RD was prepared to correct that quickly. No messing. RD had probably seen how things were going with BP for a few weeks and in that time he, almost certainly, lined up Luzon. After all Luzon had been successful for him at SL and with a 44% overall win ratio in his career you can see why RD rates him. He is also young and it appears RD likes 'young guns'. I believe that is why Riga wasn't extended for this season.
So, I think RD has acted positively and quickly which aligns with the other improvements he has made at our club over the past few months. It can be argued, why did the club attempt a PR exercise rather than just saying it as it was. I can understand those sentiments but I, for one, have no idea what really went on so I'd rather not focus on the unknowns but instead focus on the positives. I don't think too much of a negative spin should be put on this.
So, in summary, I think the negativity can be very destructive. Instead, let's get our feet back on the ground and look at what has been achieved for our club by RD up to now. In my opinion that has been mostly positive including this current move. We should now start to put this all behind us starting with the Watford game this Saturday.
And, ultimately, the true legacy of this 'manager/coach' change will be the ensuing results and no one has a crystal ball for that, regardless of who the new appointee would have been. Not even Roland. So let's get behind him because I believe he is doing what he sees as best for the club.
You make some good points.
Like myself and many others have already said it will be the results that Luzon will be judged on.
We all want Charlton to win so we have to hope that Luzon is a success as the two go together.
But that doesn't remove the PR disaster that this was.
They could very easily have said on Sunday.
"It's not working, thanks Bob but bye. It's the transfer window and a busy part of the season, we want to act swiftly so here's Luzon, Damo and Ben are going to be working with him as they know the league and players, Guy knows and is trusted by Roland, he did a good job a Liege and he already knows some of the squad. Let's all get behind him and see how far we can get up the table. Come on you reds"
That simple, that easy. But for some reason they have played out a silly game which has just undermined them from the get go. Some don't care about that but some do.
Most people just don't like being mislead and most people lose trust in those who do it do them. Especially when it was so clearly an unnecessary lie.
The way to shut us up is to win matches. Losing isn't an option. We have to win away at Watford this Saturday or Luzon is, in that context, manifestly useless.
Replace Luzon for Riga and Watford for Huddersfield, that is pretty much what you said last March when Riga was appointed.
Give the bloke a chance at least. DId we want the man as head coach? Did you seriously expect anything different? Riga turned most supporters around with the results gained to keep us up. Luzon may repeat that but don't condemn the man before a ball had been kicked.
Granted we are being taken for fools by the owner and CEO, however is that Luzon's fault?
In an ideal world most of us would like a championship experienced manager, but under the current owner that may never happen.
Go to the next 2 away games or wait till the Rotherham home game and demonstrate your anger then. Make sure it's towards the directors box and not the players or management.
Give the bloke a chance of course, he has the chance to mastermind a win at Watford, he may be our Alex Ferguson after all. I agree all criticism ought to end where the buck stops, but Luzon is shoved out front to take the flack or the praise, so he can either accept that position, or he has the option to resign. I will be satisfied with 16 wins, 1 draw, and 4 defeats for the remainder of the season, that's a chance isn't it?
Every Tuesday I start the day job about 6:30 am and then at 5pm, go home to eat get changed and be at the fire station for 6pm (training night) and then finally finish at 11pm.
However I have had periods doing both jobs when I have been called out after finishing my day job and gone on a large call out, only getting home in time to go back to work. Nowadays under work time directives this shouldn't happen anymore, yeah right.
The longest ever was about 15 years ago and it was the height of summer and I spent about three nights in a row and most of the days fighting lots of forest fires, in about 100 hours I think I slept about three.
Now how do I edit this post to make it look like it was meant to be in this thread?
I am dismayed at the attitude on this thread. The negativity is very disturbing. And, it appears to be catching. I hope you will still be supporting the team because it doesn't sound like it. Mob rule and hysteria can start to get out of control if not reined in a bit. I, for one, don't want to jump on this bandwagon.
I'm trying to be tactful here, because I do understand that people are pissed off at the perceived handling of the Guy Luzon appointment. The feeling that we've had the wool pulled over our eyes by the statements coming out of the club etc., etc.
However, I do want to try to draw this in a bit. The performances and results had been going steadily downhill for 3 months. That was painfully obvious. And it had slowly become apparent that there was a growing dissention within the dressing room which was very disturbing. So, what did RD do? He showed intent by acting quickly and removing the cause of those problems swiftly. He didn't wait another month to see how things would go but acted positively and decisively. Bob Peeters was removed. I view that as a positive. OK, it can be said that BP was his appointment in the first place but everyone makes mistakes and, obviously, BP was a mistake and RD was prepared to correct that quickly. No messing. RD had probably seen how things were going with BP for a few weeks and in that time he, almost certainly, lined up Luzon. After all Luzon had been successful for him at SL and with a 44% overall win ratio in his career you can see why RD rates him. He is also young and it appears RD likes 'young guns'. I believe that is why Riga wasn't extended for this season.
So, I think RD has acted positively and quickly which aligns with the other improvements he has made at our club over the past few months. It can be argued, why did the club attempt a PR exercise rather than just saying it as it was. I can understand those sentiments but I, for one, have no idea what really went on so I'd rather not focus on the unknowns but instead focus on the positives. I don't think too much of a negative spin should be put on this.
So, in summary, I think the negativity can be very destructive. Instead, let's get our feet back on the ground and look at what has been achieved for our club by RD up to now. In my opinion that has been mostly positive including this current move. We should now start to put this all behind us starting with the Watford game this Saturday.
And, ultimately, the true legacy of this 'manager/coach' change will be the ensuing results and no one has a crystal ball for that, regardless of who the new appointee would have been. Not even Roland. So let's get behind him because I believe he is doing what he sees as best for the club.
But that doesn't remove the PR disaster that this was.
They could very easily have said on Sunday.
"It's not working, thanks Bob but bye. It's the transfer window and a busy part of the season, we want to act swiftly so here's Luzon, Damo and Ben are going to be working with him as they know the league and players, Guy knows and is trusted by Roland, he did a good job a Liege and he already knows some of the squad. Let's all get behind him and see how far we can get up the table. Come on you reds"
That simple, that easy. But for some reason they have played out a silly game which has just undermined them from the get go. Some don't care about that but some do.
This is exactly what dismays me. Indeed it shows something interesting. RD does in fact care what the fans think. In the same way that politicians care what the voters think. That is why before an election they claim to typically "ensure the NHS is safe in our hands" or "cut the deficit", and then, once they have secured the votes and are in power, never deliver their promises. RD cares about us in the sense that he needs us to keep paying up. And here is what disappoints me: he has his convictions about how to run a football network, but after this episode it seems he doesn't have the courage to come out and state them (as Henry recommends above). He felt the need to pretend there was a process which fans would consider to be sensible, when in fact there was no such process. As someone who was prepared to believe the network idea had merit, and that RD was a man of courage and principle (even if they were very much his own principles) I feel like I've been taken for a fool.
I'm pro the current ownership, I can see the improvements, and the I think where they want to take the club. But yesterday was a slow motion car crash, sometimes saying nothing is better then saying anything.
I'm pro the current ownership, I can see the improvements, and the I think where they want to take the club. But yesterday was a slow motion car crash, sometimes saying nothing is better then saying anything.
As a matter of interest, do you think an owner without a football background who doesn't attend matches should ever be instructing the manager / head coach about who plays? And what are the chances of that succeeding, whoever the coach is?
I don't think for one minute that Roland gives a hoot about what we think. I recall his son writing that his dad needed to listen to people sometimes. RD goes through the motions of hearing but he is not listening. Some call it arrogance I just think he is an Aspergic character operating within the confines of his neural network. Narrowly focussed, adhering to a business plan that worked in a technological business where people and emotions don't count. Now he is in a business where emotions are a major factor and that, in my opinion, will be his downfall. Katrien does as she's told as does everyone. I too wish we hadn't been played for fools but nothing lasts for ever. The spirit is dented but not broken. COYR.
How many owners have a footballing background? Richard Murray was a TV production man before owning us, down the road Parish was a ad man, or the Porn brothers at West Ham where selling, well smut, before they ran Birmingham properly.
God knows what the chances are, but the old model wasn't exactly working either.
The way to shut us up is to win matches. Losing isn't an option. We have to win away at Watford this Saturday or Luzon is, in that context, manifestly useless.
Replace Luzon for Riga and Watford for Huddersfield, that is pretty much what you said last March when Riga was appointed.
Give the bloke a chance at least. DId we want the man as head coach? Did you seriously expect anything different? Riga turned most supporters around with the results gained to keep us up. Luzon may repeat that but don't condemn the man before a ball had been kicked.
Granted we are being taken for fools by the owner and CEO, however is that Luzon's fault?
In an ideal world most of us would like a championship experienced manager, but under the current owner that may never happen.
Go to the next 2 away games or wait till the Rotherham home game and demonstrate your anger then. Make sure it's towards the directors box and not the players or management.
Give the bloke a chance of course, he has the chance to mastermind a win at Watford, he may be our Alex Ferguson after all. I agree all criticism ought to end where the buck stops, but Luzon is shoved out front to take the flack or the praise, so he can either accept that position, or he has the option to resign. I will be satisfied with 16 wins, 1 draw, and 4 defeats for the remainder of the season, that's a chance isn't it?
Pretty sure you had the same attitude when Riga came in.
As you were then you are coming across as a spoilt brat who has had his Xbox taken away.
The way to shut us up is to win matches. Losing isn't an option. We have to win away at Watford this Saturday or Luzon is, in that context, manifestly useless.
Replace Luzon for Riga and Watford for Huddersfield, that is pretty much what you said last March when Riga was appointed.
Give the bloke a chance at least. DId we want the man as head coach? Did you seriously expect anything different? Riga turned most supporters around with the results gained to keep us up. Luzon may repeat that but don't condemn the man before a ball had been kicked.
Granted we are being taken for fools by the owner and CEO, however is that Luzon's fault?
In an ideal world most of us would like a championship experienced manager, but under the current owner that may never happen.
Go to the next 2 away games or wait till the Rotherham home game and demonstrate your anger then. Make sure it's towards the directors box and not the players or management.
Give the bloke a chance of course, he has the chance to mastermind a win at Watford, he may be our Alex Ferguson after all. I agree all criticism ought to end where the buck stops, but Luzon is shoved out front to take the flack or the praise, so he can either accept that position, or he has the option to resign. I will be satisfied with 16 wins, 1 draw, and 4 defeats for the remainder of the season, that's a chance isn't it?
Pretty sure you had the same attitude when Riga came in.
As you were then you are coming across as a spoilt brat who has had his Xbox taken away.
I think you mean to add coming across to you as a spoilt brat who has had his Xbox taken away. If I am pissing Clem_Snide off then I must be doing something right wouldn't you agree?
I don't think for one minute that Roland gives a hoot about what we think. I recall his son writing that his dad needed to listen to people sometimes. RD goes through the motions of hearing but he is not listening. Some call it arrogance I just think he is an Aspergic character operating within the confines of his neural network. Narrowly focussed, adhering to a business plan that worked in a technological business where people and emotions don't count. Now he is in a business where emotions are a major factor and that, in my opinion, will be his downfall. Katrien does as she's told as does everyone. I too wish we hadn't been played for fools but nothing lasts for ever. The spirit is dented but not broken. COYR.
Good to hear that rallying call from you, Anni.
Thought we had lost you along the line since RD took control.
First things first - @bromleyjohn and all others saying similar, it's ridiculous to suggest that the majority of us don't want success. We all want Luzon to be the next Mourhino (or Ferguson... hahaha, sad...) but that doesn't mean we can't articulate our distress at the way the last few days has been handled.
My family IS Charlton Athletic, like many of us on this forum it wasn't what I chose or based on any rational thought but me and my kids ARE Charlton, as are the majority of readers of this comment.
That being said - Luzon WAS NOT hired because he was the best choice for Charlton. If he wasn't already employed by Roland would he have even been considered for an interview? Not a chance. So the truthful statement here is obviously that he was the right choice for the network, but CAFC were nothing to do with it. Will he turn out to be the best choice for the club? Possibly... but let's be honest the odds are infinitesimally small that he is.
I will always be CAFC and support the boys. My great uncle Maurice will always have his ashes buried under the Covered End goal and the club will always be a massive part of my life, the Belgian's can't change that. It's who I am. Will me and my kids be there at the ground to cheer the team on though? For this season, undoubtedly, yes. In the future.... I just don't know. CAFC is in my blood but knowing that every penny of profit from my money goes to the Network, that sold Yann, sacked Powell, rejected a new contract for Riga, disrespected Morro, Wilson and the others, and now blatantly treated me like an idiot in this hiring process.... well. Maybe not.
Those that choose to think all is well, good on you. But don't criticise those of us that have had our hearts ripped out slowly over these last 12 months.
What profit would that be then?
All those calling for player investment in this window are conveniently forgetting that when Roly took over we were losing £6-7 million a year. I have no idea what it is running at now, but you can be sure we are not in profit!
As I have said before on a few occasions I'm happy to give Luzon a go, not my first choice but there we go. I'm CAFC through and through and managers/head coaches come and go, however I'm not prepared to be lied to by the 'board'...RD/KM and it would appear sadly RM, have lied quite clearly. How can you decide to get rid of a manager after a Saturday afternoon game, announce it on Sunday evening then recieve 20 applications, carry out CV reviews and shifts, release a statement syaing we are going to make sure this time we get the right person for the 'long haul' carry out full and proper interviews (if only for 4 or 5 candidates) make sure you have the right person with the right credentials and then appoint that person within a few hours....total bullshit!!
Watch that ticker @Redmidland. We want you around when these shysters are long gone.
I will @Davo55, just a little annoyed that people are telling blatant lies, KM who I had the up-most respect for has badly let herself down, just in the manner she answered the question at the press conference, body language and voice give it all away in my opinion and she didn't interview other candidates, she MAY have looked at the CV's but nothing beyond that I fear.
This is the issue for me. I'm still not going to judge the network model because we are only a year into this journey. It hasn't been pretty at times and very much the bumpy ride HI talks of. Yet, despite the turnover of managers (not good), we achieved our goals of staying up last season and I still believe, have a decent team able to compete this season.
However we just don't need the lies. We're not stupid and it's obvious Luzon was lined up if and when Peeters started to fail.
How many owners have a footballing background? Richard Murray was a TV production man before owning us, down the road Parish was a ad man, or the Porn brothers at West Ham where selling, well smut, before they ran Birmingham properly.
God knows what the chances are, but the old model wasn't exactly working either.
I think you've missed the point. As far as I'm aware, our great successes under Alan Curbishley weren't because Richard Murray was telling him what team to select. Likewise, the porn brothers and Parish don't pick the team either, they employ football managers for that because they understand that football managers know a lot more than they do about how to pick a football team.
How many owners have a footballing background? Richard Murray was a TV production man before owning us, down the road Parish was a ad man, or the Porn brothers at West Ham where selling, well smut, before they ran Birmingham properly.
God knows what the chances are, but the old model wasn't exactly working either.
But your examples weren't trying to pick the team as well.
You don't need a football background to run a club but you need the nous to know what you don't know and appoint someone who does. To all intents and purposes (and I would argue that this is evidenced by the fact that there was clearly no recruitment process - regardless of what KM and her ever expanding nose would have us believe - and reports coming from Belgian journalists and Liege fans, as well as Richard Murray's comments about GL's strength of relationship with the owner - we know from previous experience that the only way to maintain a good relationship with our owner is to do what he says), RD has appointed someone that will do his bidding. As it seems will Katrien, irrespective of the damage that it will obviously do to her credibility to say things which are verging on the ridiculous.
The problem with the network, in association with the 'innovative' scouting approach, is that we are giving undue preference to a tiny proportion of the available resource and for the wrong reasons. If you were picking the best manager (or 'head coach' if you will) for Charlton Athletic on a purely objective basis then the chances of it being Guy Luzon are miniscule. The same as the chances of players that are on Liege's books and currently out of favour being the right players to bring in to our club to best address our current situation, whatever that may be.
There are examples of this working, Ben Haim undoubtedly, Buyens and Astrit to an extent but there are plenty more when the players provided by the network have been shown to be woefully inadequate and in a more traditional set-up, without the preference given to these players, maybe we would have brought in some that were far more useful.
If Liege were Barcelona then maybe we'd be having a different conversation as luckily, the illogical set-up would be countered by the fact that the main team had a small (relative to the entire market) but disproportionately talented pool of resource, Liege don't have that. They're average Premier League standard at best - realistically therefore their cast offs are not going to greatly improve a Championship side. Of the 22 players brought in to the club that have featured in the first team since RD took over, either permanently or on loan, 11 have been drawn from the network. That's half of our players and three quarters of our managers drawn from a tiny and not especially talented or successful pool of resource. It's very hard to imagine this as a formula for success.
I hope Luzon is a success, I hope Watt turns out to be a great striker for the club but the way that we're operating is reducing and not increasing our chances of success and for this and the fact that we're being stupidly lied to, the fans have every right to be angry and disillusioned with the club whilst not having their support questioned.
How many owners have a footballing background? Richard Murray was a TV production man before owning us, down the road Parish was a ad man, or the Porn brothers at West Ham where selling, well smut, before they ran Birmingham properly.
God knows what the chances are, but the old model wasn't exactly working either.
I think you've missed the point. As far as I'm aware, our great successes under Alan Curbishley weren't because Richard Murray was telling him what team to select. Likewise, the porn brothers and Parish don't pick the team either, they employ football managers for that because they understand that football managers know a lot more than they do about how to pick a football team.
Exactly right, but Rothko didn't answer the question, did he?
Not picking him out in particular, but it seems to me that this is the point those who put their faith in RD or at least adopt a nothing-else-we-can-do-but-cheer position are failing to grasp. RD wants to make all the decisions, according to his model. It's not just that he wants to share costs and move players around between the various Staprix subsidiaries, he wants to apply his statistical model to the football itself, but like all models it's only useful if you accept its limitations.
Comments
Fuck that. I'm behind the guy but his appointment is a joke.
I take a perverse pleasure in the uproar on CharltonLife; because I KNOW this will get back to the board. Get this Katrien: you've been played for a lying fool and you've managed to get our new manager to look equally moronic. The only one that comes out of this smiling is Roly.
Maybe if we meet up Greenie then we could sketch out some tattoo ideas for a "Luzon out" tattoo on our arses too
I'm trying to be tactful here, because I do understand that people are pissed off at the perceived handling of the Guy Luzon appointment. The feeling that we've had the wool pulled over our eyes by the statements coming out of the club etc., etc.
However, I do want to try to draw this in a bit. The performances and results had been going steadily downhill for 3 months. That was painfully obvious. And it had slowly become apparent that there was a growing dissention within the dressing room which was very disturbing. So, what did RD do? He showed intent by acting quickly and removing the cause of those problems swiftly. He didn't wait another month to see how things would go but acted positively and decisively. Bob Peeters was removed. I view that as a positive. OK, it can be said that BP was his appointment in the first place but everyone makes mistakes and, obviously, BP was a mistake and RD was prepared to correct that quickly. No messing. RD had probably seen how things were going with BP for a few weeks and in that time he, almost certainly, lined up Luzon. After all Luzon had been successful for him at SL and with a 44% overall win ratio in his career you can see why RD rates him. He is also young and it appears RD likes 'young guns'. I believe that is why Riga wasn't extended for this season.
So, I think RD has acted positively and quickly which aligns with the other improvements he has made at our club over the past few months. It can be argued, why did the club attempt a PR exercise rather than just saying it as it was. I can understand those sentiments but I, for one, have no idea what really went on so I'd rather not focus on the unknowns but instead focus on the positives. I don't think too much of a negative spin should be put on this.
So, in summary, I think the negativity can be very destructive. Instead, let's get our feet back on the ground and look at what has been achieved for our club by RD up to now. In my opinion that has been mostly positive including this current move. We should now start to put this all behind us starting with the Watford game this Saturday.
And, ultimately, the true legacy of this 'manager/coach' change will be the ensuing results and no one has a crystal ball for that, regardless of who the new appointee would have been. Not even Roland. So let's get behind him because I believe he is doing what he sees as best for the club.
Something tells me they haven't had it easy. Anyone that points to their paycheck has never had a good earning job but worked under a complete cock.
Money aside; if they weren't happy then they did the right thing by escalating their complaints.
However; getting rid of Peeters doesn't excuse the shambolic way it's been handled since; a sacked network manager thrown in to the media circus with seemingly no prep, whilst the fans are angry after being lied too.
I'll get behind the 11 on the pitch, the bench and the manager... But I still think its been handled laughably.
If you pick the smoothest of British managers and ask them to give an interview in their second language then they would fail. I ponder how Moyes' intro interview was? (Not saying he's the smoothest or greatest of managers; but an example!)
However I don't think most of us are angry at, or have much against, Guy. Its his appointment and the way its been handled which is a shambles. Maybe some of us see him as the easy target?
I'm sure we all hope Guy does well and we're proved wrong; but personally I feel lied to by Katrien and the regime she represents. I also feel a little apprehensive about a manager who provoked riots elsewhere in the network. I think most of the negative nancies are just like me; disappointed and angry at the ownership.
Have a like though; as you're 100% right mate; the appointment and media circus was shambolic but he didn't organise it on his flight to Gatwick. Neither did he lie to us previously. Furthermore; he's in control now and we need to get behind him to get behind our lads.
Its not easy; but we're fans who get behind the club - even if we struggle to get behind the owners. We just need to remember that the owners and their decisions aren't equal to the club.
Buyens though has not quite lived up to his reputation from Standard overall. I am not sure why that is. He was described by Douglas de Coninck as box to box, seems to me that was not the game Peeters asked him to play. Whatever, the indications are that Luzon is less rather than more likely to get the best from him (although our info is that his relationship with Luzon was not the main reason why he needed to leave Standard).
I can see how the network system could work effectively. I do not think that it actually has done yet, for any of the clubs. It remains unclear who makes network decisions on the "human resources" and on what criteria. The suspicion is that we got Watt mainly because he was sitting in a box marked "spare striker", rather than being the type of striker the manager had identified as being our need, to play in a certain way. Now, I personally have the suspicion that we got Luzon because he was sitting in a box marked "spare head coach". I would love to be proved wrong, and am really interested in being put right by RD himself. However not only has RD declined to provide us with such an explanation, with Luzon he appears to have gone a stage further and staged a "process" which appears designed to mislead us into thinking it works in a different and more sophisticated way than that which I have just described.
The only point on which I agree with you is that the "feeder" club concern has been shown to be invalid. That conclusion however comes from a study of what has happened at Standard rather than at CAFC.
Give the bloke a chance at least. DId we want the man as head coach? Did you seriously expect anything different? Riga turned most supporters around with the results gained to keep us up. Luzon may repeat that but don't condemn the man before a ball had been kicked.
Granted we are being taken for fools by the owner and CEO, however is that Luzon's fault?
In an ideal world most of us would like a championship experienced manager, but under the current owner that may never happen.
Go to the next 2 away games or wait till the Rotherham home game and demonstrate your anger then. Make sure it's towards the directors box and not the players or management.
Those saying it isn't GL's fault.. It is. If he hadn't of let himself be RD's puppet at standard then I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't be here.
Roland out. Luzon out. Katrien out
"I would like him to be our next Sir Alex Ferguson" she said.
Unless you was at the press conference yesterday afternoon and can enlighten us with what was really said.
Like myself and many others have already said it will be the results that Luzon will be judged on.
We all want Charlton to win so we have to hope that Luzon is a success as the two go together.
But that doesn't remove the PR disaster that this was.
They could very easily have said on Sunday.
"It's not working, thanks Bob but bye. It's the transfer window and a busy part of the season, we want to act swiftly so here's Luzon, Damo and Ben are going to be working with him as they know the league and players, Guy knows and is trusted by Roland, he did a good job a Liege and he already knows some of the squad. Let's all get behind him and see how far we can get up the table. Come on you reds"
That simple, that easy. But for some reason they have played out a silly game which has just undermined them from the get go. Some don't care about that but some do.
Most people just don't like being mislead and most people lose trust in those who do it do them. Especially when it was so clearly an unnecessary lie.
However I have had periods doing both jobs when I have been called out after finishing my day job and gone on a large call out, only getting home in time to go back to work. Nowadays under work time directives this shouldn't happen anymore, yeah right.
The longest ever was about 15 years ago and it was the height of summer and I spent about three nights in a row and most of the days fighting lots of forest fires, in about 100 hours I think I slept about three.
Now how do I edit this post to make it look like it was meant to be in this thread?
God knows what the chances are, but the old model wasn't exactly working either.
As you were then you are coming across as a spoilt brat who has had his Xbox taken away.
Thought we had lost you along the line since RD took control.
I should have known better & I apologise.
Good to have you "back".
All those calling for player investment in this window are conveniently forgetting that when Roly took over we were losing £6-7 million a year. I have no idea what it is running at now, but you can be sure we are not in profit!
However we just don't need the lies. We're not stupid and it's obvious Luzon was lined up if and when Peeters started to fail.
You don't need a football background to run a club but you need the nous to know what you don't know and appoint someone who does. To all intents and purposes (and I would argue that this is evidenced by the fact that there was clearly no recruitment process - regardless of what KM and her ever expanding nose would have us believe - and reports coming from Belgian journalists and Liege fans, as well as Richard Murray's comments about GL's strength of relationship with the owner - we know from previous experience that the only way to maintain a good relationship with our owner is to do what he says), RD has appointed someone that will do his bidding. As it seems will Katrien, irrespective of the damage that it will obviously do to her credibility to say things which are verging on the ridiculous.
The problem with the network, in association with the 'innovative' scouting approach, is that we are giving undue preference to a tiny proportion of the available resource and for the wrong reasons. If you were picking the best manager (or 'head coach' if you will) for Charlton Athletic on a purely objective basis then the chances of it being Guy Luzon are miniscule. The same as the chances of players that are on Liege's books and currently out of favour being the right players to bring in to our club to best address our current situation, whatever that may be.
There are examples of this working, Ben Haim undoubtedly, Buyens and Astrit to an extent but there are plenty more when the players provided by the network have been shown to be woefully inadequate and in a more traditional set-up, without the preference given to these players, maybe we would have brought in some that were far more useful.
If Liege were Barcelona then maybe we'd be having a different conversation as luckily, the illogical set-up would be countered by the fact that the main team had a small (relative to the entire market) but disproportionately talented pool of resource, Liege don't have that. They're average Premier League standard at best - realistically therefore their cast offs are not going to greatly improve a Championship side. Of the 22 players brought in to the club that have featured in the first team since RD took over, either permanently or on loan, 11 have been drawn from the network. That's half of our players and three quarters of our managers drawn from a tiny and not especially talented or successful pool of resource. It's very hard to imagine this as a formula for success.
I hope Luzon is a success, I hope Watt turns out to be a great striker for the club but the way that we're operating is reducing and not increasing our chances of success and for this and the fact that we're being stupidly lied to, the fans have every right to be angry and disillusioned with the club whilst not having their support questioned.
Not picking him out in particular, but it seems to me that this is the point those who put their faith in RD or at least adopt a nothing-else-we-can-do-but-cheer position are failing to grasp. RD wants to make all the decisions, according to his model. It's not just that he wants to share costs and move players around between the various Staprix subsidiaries, he wants to apply his statistical model to the football itself, but like all models it's only useful if you accept its limitations.