Whatever the rights and wrongs, people keep saying the guy was intimidating because he was standing up while she was sitting down. It was a packed train. Many others were standing up, and not out of choice. Short of sitting on her lap, what was he supposed to do? (1) Yes, he was rude at times by not letting her finish what she was saying, but that perhaps was also an indication of his frustration. Full credit to her for not hiding and for travelling with the fans and engaging with them. But, that aside, (2) the current management of this club need to know how pissed off most of us are.
1. Walk away 2. You think they don't know? Chants of "F off Roland" "Roland is a C" at the match, Chants and a banner "We want our Charlton back.". A tweet went out yesterday on the way to the match to the effect I'm sitting on the train and Katiren is next to me, Charlton fans reply "Give her a slap and tell her she is a whore!" Interview with her on Fridays Charlton Live in response to a question about enjoying the job, she responds as part of her answer that most of her mail is hate mail, but laughs it off. Between you and me, I think the club know how the fans feel without a drunken goon ranting at a member of the club.
1 Yes, he could, but he pays a fair amount to follow a club and has a right to question a senior official of that club. Mostly such people are inaccessible so he took his chance. Nothing wrong with that. Had she said "sorry, I am not prepared to talk to you" then he would, I hope, have respected that. She did not, to her credit.
If you seriously believe that then you have no idea. I've had to deal with justified and unjustified customer complaints and parent complaints and the last thing you say to the sober, let alone the drunk is "I am not prepared to talk to you", even if they approach you in your own time.
The point is she at no time (unless it came before/after video) said she was not prepared to talk to him. And there's a world of difference between you dealing with an angry customer on a phone/at a desk (which I presume you are paid to do) than what happened on the train. I hope that had she either been very upset, or abused, or clearly not willing to talk, there would have been enough sensible people around to step in and stop it.
I have dealt with customers on the phone and face to face and as last port of call they were at their most angry and as a school governor i have dealt with angry parents face to face for no payment, so don't pre judge what I do.
I take it that on reading Covered End Juniors account that you feel that she was only upset and not very upset, which makes the actions acceptable.
It does look like you and I have exhausted our opinion on this so I'll refrain from commenting on your response.
We are such an eclectic bunch of people, CL and Charlton fans/critics.
As i said earlier on this thread my first thought on seeing Katrien leave the train at Watford high street, before the match was to warn her about her later travel arrangements as i would to my 19 year old daughter.
but the difference is Katrien is the 30 years old CEO of a Championship club, and must realise after a 5-0 defeat and the way the network is run she was going to face either a mob or some stiff questions from individuals on the train home.
She knew how the SL fans have reacted at times to the way Roland runs that club.
I just wish instead of white van man someone had said, hope you have a good evening but you have just seen that shambles and must realise the spirit in the team has gone, If you don't get the views accross to your boss, we are only going to keep heading in one direction. Guy Luxon sounds the same type of coach as Peeters, please give a timeline of events as the fans are confused with the process. I would state that i know she had a crap week but so have we.
Having watched it, I don't think there's much wrong with either party's approach. Ok, the bloke wasn't giving her much of an opportunity to respond to questions, but he wasn't aggressive or unreasonable, and didn't seem to me to be raising his voice unduly. I thought Katrien's responses were ok up to the point he kept cutting her off, and she didnt sound particularly stressed in that clip. Of course, it could have gone on for another twenty minutes and turned ugly, but I havent heard anyone say that was the case, and it was a more civilised debate than you see in parliament.
I think it's good of her to go by train, and a great example. She's knowingly making herself accessible and fans will take advantage of that, surely the point. If that's the worst she encounters, she's doing pretty well.
I have watched the video and in my opinion , it may have been uncomfortable for Katrien but a CEO of a football club needs to know the feelings of the supporters. He was angry and rightly so , we are in freefall. Older fans will remember when we left The Valley how some fans were accepting of the move , the message had to be got over to the board that the fans were not happy and were not going to accept it. There was a supporters meeting at the valley club where an angry crowd got the message over to the directors that we were not going to sit back and accept the situation. I had an open mind when Roland took over , give him a chance and up until a week ago i was reasonably happy. The last week has been a PR disaster , the statements from Katrien have treated the fans like idiots. I am amazed how much damage can be done by club statements.
There's a lot of frustration being expressed in an angry way here. I understand that and I would think that KM does too. I respect KM greatly for putting herself in the firing line by travelling with the fans as she would have known that something of the order that occurred would occur. It isn't nice to see and hear but that is what happens in situations where people feel that they have no say in something that they care deeply about. KM's comments regarding RD's attitude towards the club and its management was always going to get her and him in hot water. What all football supporters thrive on is hope. There is precious little of that around CAFC at the moment. Tell us what happened with BP, who was interviewed for the vacant job and why was GL thought to be the man for the job, especially in view of the Watford result which could have been a record breaker.
Full credit to Katrien for trying to respond and keeping her cool - as for the caveman perhaps he needs to understand that his approach actually got him nowhere whatsoever - I suspect my wife and daughters would either walk out of the room or laugh at me if I spoke to them in such a manner. Having heard what was said I am absolutely convinced that Katrien's heart is in the right place, she is not a liar, and the way forward for this club is to pull together and not apart.
It was'nt actually as bad as I feared when I Heard about it (mind you, there's only five minutes so I don't know how it developed). He's a big guy, which in it's own is intimidating for a small belgian lady on her own in a foreign country, but I did'nt think he was agressive or bullying. He DID cut across her replies on a regular basis, whic is impolite, especially to a stranger (it would'nt seem so if it was a couple of mate's in a pub), but you's have to take into account he was probably royally pissed off after spending hard earned money on such a wretched afternoon. I thought it was extremely brave of Katerin to travel back with the Charlton fans after a day like yesterday, and up to a point, her behaviour, answering questions and facing down an angry customer, was praiseworthy. From there. the fan won the debate hands down. The only time you sack someone and bring in a replacement, while dealing with 20 applicants, in the time scale RD did it, is if you decided in advance to appoint one of your mates. She said (as my feeble memory recalls) that she could'nt understand why she was being accused of lying. Well, the reason is that is a reasonable conclusión from the timeline of Luzon's appointment that she and RD have asked us to swallow. I repeat I think it's great she travelled with the fans (probably the last we'll see of that) but there are a lot of unhappy Addicks out there, and it was fairly probable that if she was identified, someone was going to ask what was happening at out club. I hope the discussion did'nt get more heated tan what was on the video.
I've watched it now and agree with those who feel it was not that bad. It became an uncomfortable argument but was not totally out of order.
Focusing a bit more on what was said: Katrien actually admits to issues re team spirit and that they'd tried a team building day ahead of the Brighton match. This is my biggest worry of the lot - things are BAD in the dressing room. On the showing of past few days this is getting even worse, not better. Where on earth do we go from here?
She's done herself the world of good jumping on that train to face the music. She didn't hide. She's got balls, I like that.
I'm sure she's doing the best she can under restrictive circumstances. Imagine working for him. Obviously she's made some mistakes this week and hopefully she has learnt from them.
I've watched it now and agree with those who feel it was not that bad. It became of an uncomfortable argument but was not totally out of order.
Focusing a bit more on what was said: Katrien actually admits to issues re team spirit and that they'd tried a team building day ahead of the Brighton match. This is my biggest worry of the lot - things are BAD in the dressing room. On the showing of past few days this is getting even worse, not better. Where on earth do we go from here?
Fleetwood, Doncaster, Scunthorpe to name but 3 exciting venues.
The fact this happened is a direct consequence of the owners / board shambolic communication policy of drip feeding and leaking bits of information to selected parties and using them as their mouthpiece.
Hiding behind the 'I travel with the fans' line was always going to end like this (whether you agree with the bloke or not) when you treat your paying customers with such disdain.
Didn't a group have a 'chat' with her at a service station after Sheffield. Those that had strong opinions about getting rid of Powell. So I guess she's getting used to it.
I have moved on but I miss Powell. I wish he were still with us. Sorry to go over old ground.
Well done Katrien. Something that has not been disclosed is how long was she questioned by the guy on the train. Can you give us your best guess CEJ and advise whether the discussion got any more heated thereafter please?
She's done herself the world of good jumping on that train to face the music. She didn't hide. She's got balls, I like that.
I'm sure she's doing the best she can under restrictive circumstances. Imagine working for him. Obviously she's made some mistakes this week and hopefully she has learnt from them.
Good luck Katrien.
Good post - agree. Not sure I like the idea of her having balls though! (:
Full credit to Katrien for trying to respond and keeping her cool - as for the caveman perhaps he needs to understand that his approach actually got him nowhere whatsoever - I suspect my wife and daughters would either walk out of the room or laugh at me if I spoke to them in such a manner. Having heard what was said I am absolutely convinced that Katrien's heart is in the right place, she is not a liar, and the way forward for this club is to pull together and not apart.
1) it was her choice to get on the train with fans that are rightly royally pissed off with the unfolding events of the passed week. 2) The majority of football fans, believe it or not, do drive white vans and don't all have the elocution of Jeremy Paxman when trying to get a point across. It's the territory you see. They used to be REALLY nasty.
Didn't a group have a 'chat' with her at a service station after Sheffield. Those that had strong opinions about getting rid of Powell. So I guess she's getting used to it.
I have moved on but I miss Powell. I wish he were still with us. Sorry to go over old ground.
I'm not sure you have, Curb_It, it sounds to me as if you're in denial
Airman, my response would be that drunk football supporters should not be allowed onto the trains. Ban the offender not the victim, and as she was reportedly close to tears, I see her as a victim in this scenario. We have only watched a portion of what happened so that needs to be borne in mind. Quite why people feel they have the right to get drunk and upset people I just do not understand. I trust it's not Labour Party policy;-)
Looks like I'll be travelling back by coach next Saturday.
We know NOW that this behaviour wasn't extreme, but whatever happened, and we only know a bit of it, Katrien was reportedly close to tears. Is that OK?
'Reportedly'. Initially it was reported that there were lots of charlton fans standing around her and abusing her. The only real evidence we have of that event is the video, and it is nothing like the initial reports suggested. It was that initial report that suggested she was close to tears too.
With all due respect you weren't on the train. Standing there you could clearly see that Katrien looked upset and yes she did look as if she had tears in her eyes. (I was standing a couple of feet away from her)
I never said that were people abusing her, someone did call them a bunch of Belgium c***s though.
It could have been a lot worse but standing there as it was happening, it seemed over the top.
Just to add, I know a lot of people do, including myself get tears in my eyes when I get into really passionate argument. If it appeared to you that she did have tears in her eyes, it may just have been out of the adrenalin of talking to this bloke not out of her feeling intimidated.
I'd think that's highly likely, added to the stress of the last few days and a crap result for a team that she might herself actually care something about. I'm sure she's not a fragile little woman.
I think a lot of us were in tears about the same time yesterday.
Us fans are disappointed - I get that. The line of questioning as per the video is in my opinion perhaps a little out of place. It takes a lot of guts for her to travel with the fans given that we have just had a tough week. All this is likely to do is for force her to resign or to use her own mode of transport.
When times were good earlier in the season people said how great it was to have her travelling with the fans. well done that's probably not going to happen any more.
For those obsessing over the fact that she lied to everybody how about the fact that Paul Jewell has now come out and said he was interested in the job. We simply do not know who applied and who did not one thing is for sure it will never all get out into the public domain because that is not how we do things.
Finally - the video doesn't tell the whole story. Someone who witnessed the whole journey mentioned there was someone shouting "Belgian C#$%s". THAT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE
The irony is, if he'd let her finish, it would have been a lot more interesting. Having said that, at least he put the questions forward in the first place.
He was a lot more polite than I would have been if I'd seen her yesterday.
And that would have achieved what?
Well I imagine if I'd intimidated her enough or kidnapped her in silence of the lambs fashion then RD would sell the club to a billionaire who signed every single player on the transfer rumours list and hired Powell, Riga and Curbs as a magic managerial trio.
Or it would have achieved absolutely nothing. Just pointing out that despite all the twisted knickers on here, this bloke didn't actually do much wrong in the way he spoke to her.
She does have a right to be on public transport at any time without being harassed or bullied in any way. That's it, full stop, otherwise you are effectively blaming a victim for the bullying that she received. The man has to take responsibility for his own actions.
The fella did nothing wrong didn't see him being abusive or bullying , he asked her simple questions nothing wrong with that.
A woman will most likely see it differently and I most certainly see it as harassment, bullying also in respect of the considerable physical size difference. It is intimidating and unpleasant and reflects badly on all Charlton men, the vast majority of whom would not have behaved in that way.
Speaking as a female fan, I don't hold with the view that its bullying, she is CEO, and is naive if she thinks she can get on a train full of disappointed fans and not get some stick. The fact that she is a woman has nothing to do with it. I get fed up with travelling back to Waterloo and putting up with jubilant away supporters mocking me, its part of football life. If she can't stand the heat, she should get out of the kitchen!
She has not said anything, so why should she get out of the kitchen. Its only us (the fans) who have made pages and pages of this incident.
Us fans are disappointed - I get that. The line of questioning as per the video is in my opinion perhaps a little out of place. It takes a lot of guts for her to travel with the fans given that we have just had a tough week. All this is likely to do is for force her to resign or to use her own mode of transport.
When times were good earlier in the season people said how great it was to have her travelling with the fans. well done that's probably not going to happen any more.
For those obsessing over the fact that she lied to everybody how about the fact that Paul Jewell has now come out and said he was interested in the job. We simply do not know who applied and who did not one thing is for sure it will never all get out into the public domain because that is not how we do things.
Finally - the video doesn't tell the whole story. Someone who witnessed the whole journey mentioned there was someone shouting "Belgian C#$%s". THAT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE
But the issue is not whether there were expressions of interest or even formal applications from Jewell, Curbishley even, or whoever. I'm sure that the announcement of the departure of a manager from any club attracts enquiries ranging from the deranged to the serious and qualified.
It's whether between the Monday afternoon announcement of Peeter's departure and the “late evening [when] it became clear that Guy was the favourite” any meaningful interviews with one or more of the '20 applications' had taken place in addition to Luzon - i.e. was there really any kind of 'selection' process or was Luzon the pre-planned replacement with no serious consideration of any alternatives.
Comments
I take it that on reading Covered End Juniors account that you feel that she was only upset and not very upset, which makes the actions acceptable.
It does look like you and I have exhausted our opinion on this so I'll refrain from commenting on your response.
As i said earlier on this thread my first thought on seeing Katrien leave the train at Watford high street,
before the match was to warn her about her later travel arrangements as i would to my 19 year old daughter.
but the difference is Katrien is the 30 years old CEO of a Championship club, and must realise after a 5-0 defeat and the way the network is run she was going to face either a mob or some stiff questions from individuals on the train home.
She knew how the SL fans have reacted at times to the way Roland runs that club.
I just wish instead of white van man someone had said, hope you have a good evening but you have just seen that shambles and must realise the spirit in the team has gone, If you don't get the views accross to your boss, we are only going to keep heading in one direction. Guy Luxon sounds the same type of coach as Peeters, please give a timeline of events as the fans are confused with the process. I would state that i know she had a crap week but so have we.
I think it's good of her to go by train, and a great example. She's knowingly making herself accessible and fans will take advantage of that, surely the point. If that's the worst she encounters, she's doing pretty well.
Tell us what happened with BP, who was interviewed for the vacant job and why was GL thought to be the man for the job, especially in view of the Watford result which could have been a record breaker.
From there. the fan won the debate hands down. The only time you sack someone and bring in a replacement, while dealing with 20 applicants, in the time scale RD did it, is if you decided in advance to appoint one of your mates. She said (as my feeble memory recalls) that she could'nt understand why she was being accused of lying. Well, the reason is that is a reasonable conclusión from the timeline of Luzon's appointment that she and RD have asked us to swallow.
I repeat I think it's great she travelled with the fans (probably the last we'll see of that) but there are a lot of unhappy Addicks out there, and it was fairly probable that if she was identified, someone was going to ask what was happening at out club.
I hope the discussion did'nt get more heated tan what was on the video.
Focusing a bit more on what was said:
Katrien actually admits to issues re team spirit and that they'd tried a team building day ahead of the Brighton match. This is my biggest worry of the lot - things are BAD in the dressing room. On the showing of past few days this is getting even worse, not better. Where on earth do we go from here?
I'm sure she's doing the best she can under restrictive circumstances. Imagine working for him. Obviously she's made some mistakes this week and hopefully she has learnt from them.
Good luck Katrien.
Hiding behind the 'I travel with the fans' line was always going to end like this (whether you agree with the bloke or not) when you treat your paying customers with such disdain.
I have moved on but I miss Powell. I wish he were still with us. Sorry to go over old ground.
2) The majority of football fans, believe it or not, do drive white vans and don't all have the elocution of Jeremy Paxman when trying to get a point across. It's the territory you see. They used to be REALLY nasty.
I'm not sure you have, Curb_It, it sounds to me as if you're in denial
When times were good earlier in the season people said how great it was to have her travelling with the fans. well done that's probably not going to happen any more.
For those obsessing over the fact that she lied to everybody how about the fact that Paul Jewell has now come out and said he was interested in the job. We simply do not know who applied and who did not one thing is for sure it will never all get out into the public domain because that is not how we do things.
Finally - the video doesn't tell the whole story. Someone who witnessed the whole journey mentioned there was someone shouting "Belgian C#$%s". THAT IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE
Or it would have achieved absolutely nothing. Just pointing out that despite all the twisted knickers on here, this bloke didn't actually do much wrong in the way he spoke to her.
It's whether between the Monday afternoon announcement of Peeter's departure and the “late evening [when] it became clear that Guy was the favourite” any meaningful interviews with one or more of the '20 applications' had taken place in addition to Luzon - i.e. was there really any kind of 'selection' process or was Luzon the pre-planned replacement with no serious consideration of any alternatives.