The main thing that worried me from that was when she said they hired Luzon because they know him and they know how he works and they're comfortable with it. Obviously this was a Roland decision and for me that just highlights that he has taken literally nothing on board in the past year. Nothing. He had to sack Luzon because the Liege fans were out for his blood, he messed up in the January transfer window last year, he messed up hiring Bob and yet it's still 'Roland knows best'. I think we're in trouble here
Airman, would you therefore argue that women should not go to nightclubs in skimpy clothes and gent drunk in case they get raped or that a Muslin woman should wear the veil so that her husband doesn't beat her? If not, why are these examples different? I am not and never have been a fan of Katrien but I would never argue that she should not get on a train because of drunk football supporters.
I stand by my comment that she was unwise to take the train after what's happened this week. However the chap talking to her, even though he wasn't threatening, was just mouthing off. He didn't give her a chance to answer any questions. He even cut her off while she was talking. She was being very open and, it sounded, honest about what had happened.
Insisting that she disclose the names of people that applied was ridiculous as no one with any decency would do so.
Interestingly I was really enjoying her explain some things but the fool that was just venting at her cut her off so many times and, it seemed, didn't listen to a word she said.
One positive, for her, from the incident is that I have more respect for her now and, had she been allowed to speak, I suspect much of the criticism from the last week might have been dealt with.
It is clear that they know that the players are unhappy and almost 'on strike' and have done things to fix that. I wouldn't be surprised to see several of the players shipped out. I don't see RD being held to ransom by players and if they won't try harder then I suspect they might be removed.
She does have a right to be on public transport at any time without being harassed or bullied in any way. That's it, full stop, otherwise you are effectively blaming a victim for the bullying that she received. The man has to take responsibility for his own actions.
The fella did nothing wrong didn't see him being abusive or bullying , he asked her simple questions nothing wrong with that.
A woman will most likely see it differently and I most certainly see it as harassment, bullying also in respect of the considerable physical size difference. It is intimidating and unpleasant and reflects badly on all Charlton men, the vast majority of whom would not have behaved in that way.
Utterly sexist.
And assuming your comment wasn't tongue in cheek, that is utterly bollocks.
KM's decision to travel with fans on the train was perhaps a risk she didn't need to take but her motives for doing so were almost certainly noble - she didn't want to duck the criticism that I would agree she has earned this week. And I'm sure, although unlikely to admit it in public (or allowed to) she would agree that this past few days haven't been the best of her career.
The vast majority of men can physically intimidate the vast majority of women in an argumentative scenario - or let's just say a heated debate. It seems the guy in question was large and from what I have seen Katrien is diminutive in stature. I haven't seen the video so this is just a generalisation but in that situation, with the female recipient of the criticism appearing to be emotional, most decent men would back off, or indeed wouldn't have chosen to put her in that position in the first place.
If my view is sexist then I'm proud to be called sexist - but I'd rather describe it as common respect and decency.
Thanks for posting that - reading the comments on here I thought there had been a massacre.
Seemed like a reasonable discourse considering the circumstances - emotions as they were etc.
I do wish she'd just tell the truth though: "The owner is already paying Luzon until 2016, so we thought he might as well work for his money. And he's better than Peeters."
So men and woman are not equal? Meaning woman are less suited for certain jobs than men are. Some might consider that sexist.
If it's OK to ask a man those questions then it's OK to ask a woman. I don't think she should have ever felt at risk of violence, if she did that's bang out of order, the same would be true if she was a he, Riviera got it perfectly right earlier in the thread, imo.
She does have a right to be on public transport at any time without being harassed or bullied in any way. That's it, full stop, otherwise you are effectively blaming a victim for the bullying that she received. The man has to take responsibility for his own actions.
The fella did nothing wrong didn't see him being abusive or bullying , he asked her simple questions nothing wrong with that.
A woman will most likely see it differently and I most certainly see it as harassment, bullying also in respect of the considerable physical size difference. It is intimidating and unpleasant and reflects badly on all Charlton men, the vast majority of whom would not have behaved in that way.
Speaking as a female fan, I don't hold with the view that its bullying, she is CEO, and is naive if she thinks she can get on a train full of disappointed fans and not get some stick. The fact that she is a woman has nothing to do with it. I get fed up with travelling back to Waterloo and putting up with jubilant away supporters mocking me, its part of football life. If she can't stand the heat, she should get out of the kitchen!
Airman, would you therefore argue that women should not go to nightclubs in skimpy clothes and gent drunk in case they get raped or that a Muslin woman should wear the veil so that her husband doesn't beat her? If not, why are these examples different? I am not and never have been a fan of Katrien but I would never argue that she should not get on a train because of drunk football supporters.
Let's strip out the sexist assumptions and put it like this. Would it be sensible for a lone male Charlton fan wearing colours to get on a train packed with Millwall after beating them at the Den (it happened in 1995, before you point out the implausibility)? Or would it be foolhardy?
The Charlton fan has an absolute right to do so, but would it be intimidating and therefore unwise, even if nothing happened? Of course it would.
In fact, Katrien's gender gives her a level of protection that a male CEO would not have - people would intervene to support her if things got out of hand. But that's not the point.
She does have a right to be on public transport at any time without being harassed or bullied in any way. That's it, full stop, otherwise you are effectively blaming a victim for the bullying that she received. The man has to take responsibility for his own actions.
The fella did nothing wrong didn't see him being abusive or bullying , he asked her simple questions nothing wrong with that.
A woman will most likely see it differently and I most certainly see it as harassment, bullying also in respect of the considerable physical size difference. It is intimidating and unpleasant and reflects badly on all Charlton men, the vast majority of whom would not have behaved in that way.
Utterly sexist.
And assuming your comment wasn't tongue in cheek, that is utterly bollocks.
KM's decision to travel with fans on the train was perhaps a risk she didn't need to take but her motives for doing so were almost certainly noble - she didn't want to duck the criticism that I would agree she has earned this week. And I'm sure, although unlikely to admit it in public (or allowed to) she would agree that this past few days haven't been the best of her career.
The vast majority of men can physically intimidate the vast majority of women in an argumentative scenario - or let's just say a heated debate. It seems the guy in question was large and from what I have seen Katrien is diminutive in stature. I haven't seen the video so this is just a generalisation but in that situation, with the female recipient of the criticism appearing to be emotional, most decent men would back off, or indeed wouldn't have chosen to put her in that position in the first place.
If my view is sexist then I'm proud to be called sexist - but I'd rather describe it as common respect and decency.
Yes he is pretty large, loud and standing while she is seated, he also calls his mate over. The train is also packed. If anyone does not think that is intimidating then they have massive self confidence. I do agree that KM was naive to continue her policy of mixing with the fans for this game and would suggest that she travels with more caution to Wolverhampton next week.
Having watched it I'm wondering what all the fuss is about.
He wasn't intimidating nor did she seem intimidated by him.
The situation of having to answer awkward questions publicly 'on the hoof' was a bit intimidating but no more so than any other CEO (man or woman!) who has to face a set of awkward customers/ employees.
Anyone who has worked in a senior corporate position in a 'back against the wall' situation like this will have responded similarly or not at all. I thought she did ok actually.
Thanks for posting that - reading the comments on here I thought there had been a massacre.
Seemed like a reasonable discourse considering the circumstances - emotions as they were etc.
I do wish she'd just tell the truth though: "The owner is already paying Luzon until 2016, so we thought he might as well work for his money. And he's better than Peeters."
Just picking up this thread without reading all that went before it. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it's been said already but anyway… How can that bloke have the audacity to put himself forward as a spokesperson for loyal fans? He left at half time. If Katrien was the savvy lawyer we believe she is, she would have simply said that she would love to answer his questions, but this was hardly the time or place. If the bloke had then gone on I reckon she'd have got more protection from others in the carriage. I think both people are an embarrassment to the club.
So men and woman are not equal? Meaning woman are less suited for certain jobs than men are. Some might consider that sexist.
If it's OK to ask a man those questions then it's OK to ask a woman. I don't think she should have ever felt at risk of violence, if she did that's bang out of order, the same would be true if she was a he, Riviera got it perfectly right earlier in the thread, imo.
Men and women are of equal value but there are physical differences and I'm old-fashioned enough to respect those differences. Kap describes him as large and standing - KM was seated. In view of the subject of discussion that is intimidating - and would be if both were male.
The whole travelling by train thing - does that not at least show some understanding of Charlton fans? She'll be learning timetables off by heart next ;-)
Seen video, he was not being threatening in anyway but he was an absolute twat with his questioning.
Causing a scene, just looked unnecessary. You can ask questions and she will quite clearly answer them if you listen.
That could have been done in more of a constructive way. Instead it just looks like a hippo that wants the whole trains attention.
He's a Charlton fan and he's passionate, I give him that.
He wanted Paul Jewell!!!
Rediculous name to bring up.... the explanation being he was pissed.
He brought up Jewell to refute the club and KM saying that the appointment of Luzon was because he had the right 'records' and history and attributes-- you could say Jewell has a better record in general but yet he was overlooked ?
Once upon a time I worked for a huge manufacturing company located on the nth bank of the Thames. The company was looking to shut one part of the complex and was using any excuse to sack workers rather than have them hanging on for redundancy. One man who I knew well was sacked for 'stealing' a packet of paper towels after being searched by company security. He'd worked there for fifteen years THE POINT ? : Male managers, tasked with the job of sacking workers led a dangerous life. Several were assaulted, some seriously, some more than once. The company's remedy ?: It was decided to bring in female HR staff to break the news gently to those who were being sacked, the notion of course was that big hard factory workers would not dream of chinning a young woman whereas a male HR body with P45 in hand could act as a red rag to an enraged bull
THE MORAL OF THE STORY ? : If you have dirty work to do and motives to hide, get a female to act as your spokesperson/PR representative/fall guy (or gal). Many a sin is concealed behind a painted smile
I suspect that the train journey to and from the away game was a publicity stunt'
Except it's not the first time she has travelled to an away game by public transport so not a publicity stunt in my opinion. Might be the last time she does though.
The whole travelling by train thing - does that not at least show some understanding of Charlton fans? She'll be learning timetables off by heart next ;-)
She should be travelling with the team to reassure them. Might have meant we'd have got a less 'shit-scared' performance.
Just watched the video, i take back my earlier comment in this thread about it being shameful behaviour by our fan, he is not being abusive in that video, he is clearly a diehard and passionate Charlton fan who has possibly had a little too much to drink desperate for answers to a terrible week that has left him upset, nothing more serious then that.
We are fans, we are meant to be emotional.
Did she really say Curbs applied, as if you think Curbs coming back would be the right appointment or not, surely they can't defend not even giving a face to face interview to one of our best, if not the best manager in the history of the club?
Just watched the video, i take back my earlier comment in this thread about it being shameful behaviour by our fan, he is not being abusive in that video, he is clearly a diehard and passionate Charlton fan who has possibly had a little too much to drink desperate for answers to a terrible week that has left him upset, nothing more serious then that.
We are fans, we are meant to be emotional.
Did she really say Curbs applied, as if you think Curbs coming back would be the right appointment or not, surely they can't defend not even giving a face to face interview to one of our best, if not the best manager in the history of the club?
I think you're missing the point. Luzon is already on the payroll of the network. What ever Curbs was going to be paid would have been on top of Luzon's salary.
I don't think they were, ever, going to carry out a full recruitment process. They never even said as much. One could argue that they did carry out a search. The searched for Luzon's number and called him!
Just watched the video, i take back my earlier comment in this thread about it being shameful behaviour by our fan, he is not being abusive in that video, he is clearly a diehard and passionate Charlton fan who has possibly had a little too much to drink desperate for answers to a terrible week that has left him upset, nothing more serious then that.
We are fans, we are meant to be emotional.
Did she really say Curbs applied, as if you think Curbs coming back would be the right appointment or not, surely they can't defend not even giving a face to face interview to one of our best, if not the best manager in the history of the club?
I think you're missing the point. Luzon is already on the payroll of the network. What ever Curbs was going to be paid would have been on top of Luzon's salary.
I don't think they were, ever, going to carry out a full recruitment process. They never even said as much. One could argue that they did carry out a search. The searched for Luzon's number and called him!
Doesn't she say in the video that they interviewed 20 candidates !
Just watched the video, i take back my earlier comment in this thread about it being shameful behaviour by our fan, he is not being abusive in that video, he is clearly a diehard and passionate Charlton fan who has possibly had a little too much to drink desperate for answers to a terrible week that has left him upset, nothing more serious then that.
We are fans, we are meant to be emotional.
Did she really say Curbs applied, as if you think Curbs coming back would be the right appointment or not, surely they can't defend not even giving a face to face interview to one of our best, if not the best manager in the history of the club?
I think you're missing the point. Luzon is already on the payroll of the network. What ever Curbs was going to be paid would have been on top of Luzon's salary.
I don't think they were, ever, going to carry out a full recruitment process. They never even said as much. One could argue that they did carry out a search. The searched for Luzon's number and called him!
Oh i understand why we have Luzon but surely revealing that fact is a major slip up if true that Curbs actually applied, as how can they claim he was not even worth an official interview before they hired the conveniant best man for the job in Luzon.
KM is the CEO, therefore is the public figure head of the company and from time to time irate customers are something that you have to deal with. The more savy ones avoid meeting them and don't put yourself in this position in the first place. The CEO's sex is totally irrelevant and the people saying you can't speak to her like this as she is a woman are quite frankly sexist themselves.
Not that it would have happened but could you imagine the reaction if RD had been on that train. I doubt you would have anyone on here commenting you can't speak to an OAP like that
Of course she should use the train, but use a bit of common sense and try and avoid the hordes particularly after the week we have just had. I have seen countless number of Directors coming back on our trains over the years and most of the time they keep out of the way and quickly into first class. Only issue I can ever remember is away to Wolves in 97 and Roger Alwen and a few others were in standard class and were so taken aback by what most would see as normal behaviour they were soon back to first class for the next away trip
I have just seen the video and neither party was either bullying nor intimidated by what I saw there. I think it was a fair and frank discussion where for the most part both participants were trying to sustain their case by focusing on detail. The Charlton fan is pretty well informed, and of course Katrien is aware of detail too. I actually quite liked both parties, even if some of the things each of them said I would have difficulties with.
Comments
I am not and never have been a fan of Katrien but I would never argue that she should not get on a train because of drunk football supporters.
Insisting that she disclose the names of people that applied was ridiculous as no one with any decency would do so.
Interestingly I was really enjoying her explain some things but the fool that was just venting at her cut her off so many times and, it seemed, didn't listen to a word she said.
One positive, for her, from the incident is that I have more respect for her now and, had she been allowed to speak, I suspect much of the criticism from the last week might have been dealt with.
It is clear that they know that the players are unhappy and almost 'on strike' and have done things to fix that. I wouldn't be surprised to see several of the players shipped out. I don't see RD being held to ransom by players and if they won't try harder then I suspect they might be removed.
KM's decision to travel with fans on the train was perhaps a risk she didn't need to take but her motives for doing so were almost certainly noble - she didn't want to duck the criticism that I would agree she has earned this week. And I'm sure, although unlikely to admit it in public (or allowed to) she would agree that this past few days haven't been the best of her career.
The vast majority of men can physically intimidate the vast majority of women in an argumentative scenario - or let's just say a heated debate. It seems the guy in question was large and from what I have seen Katrien is diminutive in stature. I haven't seen the video so this is just a generalisation but in that situation, with the female recipient of the criticism appearing to be emotional, most decent men would back off, or indeed wouldn't have chosen to put her in that position in the first place.
If my view is sexist then I'm proud to be called sexist - but I'd rather describe it as common respect and decency.
Seemed like a reasonable discourse considering the circumstances - emotions as they were etc.
I do wish she'd just tell the truth though: "The owner is already paying Luzon until 2016, so we thought he might as well work for his money. And he's better than Peeters."
If it's OK to ask a man those questions then it's OK to ask a woman. I don't think she should have ever felt at risk of violence, if she did that's bang out of order, the same would be true if she was a he, Riviera got it perfectly right earlier in the thread, imo.
The Charlton fan has an absolute right to do so, but would it be intimidating and therefore unwise, even if nothing happened? Of course it would.
In fact, Katrien's gender gives her a level of protection that a male CEO would not have - people would intervene to support her if things got out of hand. But that's not the point.
He wasn't intimidating nor did she seem intimidated by him.
The situation of having to answer awkward questions publicly 'on the hoof' was a bit intimidating but no more so than any other CEO (man or woman!) who has to face a set of awkward customers/ employees.
Anyone who has worked in a senior corporate position in a 'back against the wall' situation like this will have responded similarly or not at all. I thought she did ok actually.
Causing a scene, just looked unnecessary. You can ask questions and she will quite clearly answer them if you listen.
That could have been done in more of a constructive way. Instead it just looks like a hippo that wants the whole trains attention.
He's a Charlton fan and he's passionate, I give him that.
I know we have slagged off a selfie stick, but we could have done with one on this occasion.
How can that bloke have the audacity to put himself forward as a spokesperson for loyal fans? He left at half time.
If Katrien was the savvy lawyer we believe she is, she would have simply said that she would love to answer his questions, but this was hardly the time or place. If the bloke had then gone on I reckon she'd have got more protection from others in the carriage.
I think both people are an embarrassment to the club.
Did I say anything about jobs?
THE POINT ? : Male managers, tasked with the job of sacking workers led a dangerous life. Several were assaulted, some seriously, some more than once. The company's remedy ?: It was decided to bring in female HR staff to break the news gently to those who were being sacked, the notion of course was that big hard factory workers would not dream of chinning a young woman whereas a male HR body with P45 in hand could act as a red rag to an enraged bull
THE MORAL OF THE STORY ? : If you have dirty work to do and motives to hide, get a female to act as your spokesperson/PR representative/fall guy (or gal). Many a sin is concealed behind a painted smile
We are fans, we are meant to be emotional.
Did she really say Curbs applied, as if you think Curbs coming back would be the right appointment or not, surely they can't defend not even giving a face to face interview to one of our best, if not the best manager in the history of the club?
I don't think they were, ever, going to carry out a full recruitment process. They never even said as much. One could argue that they did carry out a search. The searched for Luzon's number and called him!
Not that it would have happened but could you imagine the reaction if RD had been on that train. I doubt you would have anyone on here commenting you can't speak to an OAP like that
Of course she should use the train, but use a bit of common sense and try and avoid the hordes particularly after the week we have just had. I have seen countless number of Directors coming back on our trains over the years and most of the time they keep out of the way and quickly into first class. Only issue I can ever remember is away to Wolves in 97 and Roger Alwen and a few others were in standard class and were so taken aback by what most would see as normal behaviour they were soon back to first class for the next away trip