I really thought this video was going to be uncomfortable viewing.
I think in reality this fan just put his points across in the way that was natural to him, and he was making a concerted effort to not show the full extent of how angry he was and trying to articulate his opinions as best he could. I didn't see any shouting or anything else mentioned on this thread.
As for people talking about his body language being intimidating, that's just how 'proper geezers' stand. Walk into any pub around Charlton and you'll probably see about 20 blokes standing like their testicles are 50cm diameter.
An interesting thing that happened and nothing more.
Whatever the rights and wrongs, people keep saying the guy was intimidating because he was standing up while she was sitting down. It was a packed train. Many others were standing up, and not out of choice. Short of sitting on her lap, what was he supposed to do? Yes, he was rude at times by not letting her finish what she was saying, but that perhaps was also an indication of his frustration. Full credit to her for not hiding and for travelling with the fans and engaging with them. But, that aside, the current management of this club need to know how pissed off most of us are.
She does have a right to be on public transport at any time without being harassed or bullied in any way. That's it, full stop, otherwise you are effectively blaming a victim for the bullying that she received. The man has to take responsibility for his own actions.
The fella did nothing wrong didn't see him being abusive or bullying , he asked her simple questions nothing wrong with that.
A woman will most likely see it differently and I most certainly see it as harassment, bullying also in respect of the considerable physical size difference. It is intimidating and unpleasant and reflects badly on all Charlton men, the vast majority of whom would not have behaved in that way.
Well sorry I don't see it differently , ok the fella was upset believe me I think she got off lightly .
Just seen it and at no time was a line crossed. He should have let KM speak a bit more but he was understandably upset - but it wasn't intimidating in terms of threatening her safety - real or perceived IMO at any time. She indicted , rightly, that it would be unprofessional to disclose the applicants - but had already indicated that Curbs was one of them. I have a strong suspicion that if this was put to Curbs he would deny he applied. I think that is the next step - somebody has to ask him. If he accepts he did, fair enough - if he didn't then it backs up our position.
We know NOW that this behaviour wasn't extreme, but whatever happened, and we only know a bit of it, Katrien was reportedly close to tears. Is that OK?
Just seen it and at no time was a line crossed. He should have let KM speak a bit more but he was understandably upset - but it wasn't intimidating in terms of threatening her safety - real or perceived IMO at any time. She indicted , rightly, that it would be unprofessional to disclose the applicants - but had already indicated that Curbs was one of them. I have a strong suspicion that if this was put to Curbs he would deny he applied. I think that is the next step - somebody has to ask him. If he accepts he did, fair enough - if he didn't then it backs up our position.
Isn't part of this key as to whether they followed due process with regard to obtaining a work permit for Luzon? Curbs publicly voiced an opinion that he would talk to them. If he didn't specifically apply but they count that as an application then it's pretty thin. Plus if the job isn't advertised, then it's all just done on the basis of 'I understand you have a vacancy for the managers position, I'm attaching my CV'.
Whatever the rights and wrongs, people keep saying the guy was intimidating because he was standing up while she was sitting down. It was a packed train. Many others were standing up, and not out of choice. Short of sitting on her lap, (1) what was he supposed to do? Yes, he was rude at times by not letting her finish what she was saying, but that perhaps was also an indication of his frustration. Full credit to her for not hiding and for travelling with the fans and engaging with them. But, that aside, (2) the current management of this club need to know how pissed off most of us are.
1. Walk away 2. You think they don't know? Chants of "F off Roland" "Roland is a C" at the match, Chants and a banner "We want our Charlton back.". A tweet went out yesterday on the way to the match to the effect I'm sitting on the train and Katiren is next to me, Charlton fans reply "Give her a slap and tell her she is a whore!" Interview with her on Fridays Charlton Live in response to a question about enjoying the job, she responds as part of her answer that most of her mail is hate mail, but laughs it off. Between you and me, I think the club know how the fans feel without a drunken goon ranting at a member of the club.
In terms of the scenario. KM will have travelled expecting to interact with supporters. The gentleman was merely seizing, as best he could, what for him was an opportunist moment. Non issue.
In terms of the conversation. I find it a pity a covert recording has gone online, it only serves to make KM more guarded and/or less available from now on.
I wonder what the people on the train who don't care at all about football think about that type of behaviour - why do so many fans behave as if regular social norms don't apply just because you've been to a football match? Why should the peace of their train journey be ruined by some bloke ranting?
They must be left with the impression that all travelling football fans are just a couple of generations evolved from neanderthal man, when in truth only about 85% are.
We know NOW that this behaviour wasn't extreme, but whatever happened, and we only know a bit of it, Katrien was reportedly close to tears. Is that OK?
'Reportedly'. Initially it was reported that there were lots of charlton fans standing around her and abusing her. The only real evidence we have of that event is the video, and it is nothing like the initial reports suggested. It was that initial report that suggested she was close to tears too.
Whatever the rights and wrongs, people keep saying the guy was intimidating because he was standing up while she was sitting down. It was a packed train. Many others were standing up, and not out of choice. Short of sitting on her lap, what was he supposed to do? (1) Yes, he was rude at times by not letting her finish what she was saying, but that perhaps was also an indication of his frustration. Full credit to her for not hiding and for travelling with the fans and engaging with them. But, that aside, (2) the current management of this club need to know how pissed off most of us are.
1. Walk away 2. You think they don't know? Chants of "F off Roland" "Roland is a C" at the match, Chants and a banner "We want our Charlton back.". A tweet went out yesterday on the way to the match to the effect I'm sitting on the train and Katiren is next to me, Charlton fans reply "Give her a slap and tell her she is a whore!" Interview with her on Fridays Charlton Live in response to a question about enjoying the job, she responds as part of her answer that most of her mail is hate mail, but laughs it off. Between you and me, I think the club know how the fans feel without a drunken goon ranting at a member of the club.
1 Yes, he could, but he pays a fair amount to follow a club and has a right to question a senior official of that club. Mostly such people are inaccessible so he took his chance. Nothing wrong with that. Had she said "sorry, I am not prepared to talk to you" then he would, I hope, have respected that. She did not, to her credit. 2 Chants and banners are one thing,seeing the anger/frustration close hand is another and may have actually registered more than other protest. The person who sent that Twitter comment is not even worth bothering about ... social media has given some lowlife a voice but they do not speak for the majority. And the guy himself may have had a drink but it was not a drunken rant. And I am sure Ms Meire is used to hate mail in the job she's in and, as she says and is right to do, laughs it off.
I wonder what the people on the train who don't care at all about football think about that type of behaviour - why do so many fans behave as if regular social norms don't apply just because you've been to a football match? Why should the peace of their train journey be ruined by some bloke ranting?
They must be left with the impression that all travelling football fans are just a couple of generations evolved from neanderthal man, when in truth only about 85% are.
After sitting on a train with the Barnsley fans on the way to the Valley last April and hearing a string of songs about the Miner's Strike, Margaret Thatcher and anyone who arrived in the UK after about 1900 (while surrounded by families) they might have a point ...
Whatever the rights and wrongs, people keep saying the guy was intimidating because he was standing up while she was sitting down. It was a packed train. Many others were standing up, and not out of choice. Short of sitting on her lap, what was he supposed to do? (1) Yes, he was rude at times by not letting her finish what she was saying, but that perhaps was also an indication of his frustration. Full credit to her for not hiding and for travelling with the fans and engaging with them. But, that aside, (2) the current management of this club need to know how pissed off most of us are.
1. Walk away 2. You think they don't know? Chants of "F off Roland" "Roland is a C" at the match, Chants and a banner "We want our Charlton back.". A tweet went out yesterday on the way to the match to the effect I'm sitting on the train and Katiren is next to me, Charlton fans reply "Give her a slap and tell her she is a whore!" Interview with her on Fridays Charlton Live in response to a question about enjoying the job, she responds as part of her answer that most of her mail is hate mail, but laughs it off. Between you and me, I think the club know how the fans feel without a drunken goon ranting at a member of the club.
Amazing point 2, Kap, and utterly sickening. I think I've had it with our fans. There are way too many brainless, negative tossers detailed in your post.
If her and RD aren't going to listen to the fans via controlled and planned ways aka the trust and fan meetings , then she will have to expect that more of this is likely to come - no matter how people feel about it!
We know NOW that this behaviour wasn't extreme, but whatever happened, and we only know a bit of it, Katrien was reportedly close to tears. Is that OK?
'Reportedly'. Initially it was reported that there were lots of charlton fans standing around her and abusing her. The only real evidence we have of that event is the video, and it is nothing like the initial reports suggested. It was that initial report that suggested she was close to tears too.
With all due respect you weren't on the train. Standing there you could clearly see that Katrien looked upset and yes she did look as if she had tears in her eyes. (I was standing a couple of feet away from her)
I never said that were people abusing her, someone did call them a bunch of Belgium c***s though.
It could have been a lot worse but standing there as it was happening, it seemed over the top.
Anyone that thinks that video is abusive and terrifying needs to get their head out of there arse. Apart from asking the same question over and over the fella didn't do a lot wrong. Why Katrien insists that the appointment process was thorough and normal is anyone's guess.
Because the work permit requirements oblige her to do so.....?
Surely the Home Office will need more than a quote from a press conference to prove that?
Just putting the gender issue to one side. Would people think it foolhardy for Roland to get on that train? Fans cannot get access to Roland, but she is his representative. Not a pleasant situation, but let's hope it brings things to a head. Fans need to be listened to. We were right about Yann and I suspect Riga would have been a far better choice than Peeeeters.
Whatever the rights and wrongs, people keep saying the guy was intimidating because he was standing up while she was sitting down. It was a packed train. Many others were standing up, and not out of choice. Short of sitting on her lap, what was he supposed to do? (1) Yes, he was rude at times by not letting her finish what she was saying, but that perhaps was also an indication of his frustration. Full credit to her for not hiding and for travelling with the fans and engaging with them. But, that aside, (2) the current management of this club need to know how pissed off most of us are.
1. Walk away 2. You think they don't know? Chants of "F off Roland" "Roland is a C" at the match, Chants and a banner "We want our Charlton back.". A tweet went out yesterday on the way to the match to the effect I'm sitting on the train and Katiren is next to me, Charlton fans reply "Give her a slap and tell her she is a whore!" Interview with her on Fridays Charlton Live in response to a question about enjoying the job, she responds as part of her answer that most of her mail is hate mail, but laughs it off. Between you and me, I think the club know how the fans feel without a drunken goon ranting at a member of the club.
1 Yes, he could, but he pays a fair amount to follow a club and has a right to question a senior official of that club. Mostly such people are inaccessible so he took his chance. Nothing wrong with that. Had she said "sorry, I am not prepared to talk to you" then he would, I hope, have respected that. She did not, to her credit.
If you seriously believe that then you have no idea. I've had to deal with justified and unjustified customer complaints and parent complaints and the last thing you say to the sober, let alone the drunk is "I am not prepared to talk to you", even if they approach you in your own time.
Whatever the rights and wrongs, people keep saying the guy was intimidating because he was standing up while she was sitting down. It was a packed train. Many others were standing up, and not out of choice. Short of sitting on her lap, what was he supposed to do? (1) Yes, he was rude at times by not letting her finish what she was saying, but that perhaps was also an indication of his frustration. Full credit to her for not hiding and for travelling with the fans and engaging with them. But, that aside, (2) the current management of this club need to know how pissed off most of us are.
1. Walk away 2. You think they don't know? Chants of "F off Roland" "Roland is a C" at the match, Chants and a banner "We want our Charlton back.". A tweet went out yesterday on the way to the match to the effect I'm sitting on the train and Katiren is next to me, Charlton fans reply "Give her a slap and tell her she is a whore!" Interview with her on Fridays Charlton Live in response to a question about enjoying the job, she responds as part of her answer that most of her mail is hate mail, but laughs it off. Between you and me, I think the club know how the fans feel without a drunken goon ranting at a member of the club.
1 Yes, he could, but he pays a fair amount to follow a club and has a right to question a senior official of that club. Mostly such people are inaccessible so he took his chance. Nothing wrong with that. Had she said "sorry, I am not prepared to talk to you" then he would, I hope, have respected that. She did not, to her credit.
If you seriously believe that then you have no idea. I've had to deal with justified and unjustified customer complaints and parent complaints and the last thing you say to the sober, let alone the drunk is "I am not prepared to talk to you", even if they approach you in your own time.
The point is she at no time (unless it came before/after video) said she was not prepared to talk to him. And there's a world of difference between you dealing with an angry customer on a phone/at a desk (which I presume you are paid to do) than what happened on the train. I hope that had she either been very upset, or abused, or clearly not willing to talk, there would have been enough sensible people around to step in and stop it.
We know NOW that this behaviour wasn't extreme, but whatever happened, and we only know a bit of it, Katrien was reportedly close to tears. Is that OK?
'Reportedly'. Initially it was reported that there were lots of charlton fans standing around her and abusing her. The only real evidence we have of that event is the video, and it is nothing like the initial reports suggested. It was that initial report that suggested she was close to tears too.
With all due respect you weren't on the train. Standing there you could clearly see that Katrien looked upset and yes she did look as if she had tears in her eyes. (I was standing a couple of feet away from her)
I never said that were people abusing her, someone did call them a bunch of Belgium c***s though.
It could have been a lot worse but standing there as it was happening, it seemed over the top.
Just to add, I know a lot of people do, including myself get tears in my eyes when I get into really passionate argument. If it appeared to you that she did have tears in her eyes, it may just have been out of the adrenalin of talking to this bloke not out of her feeling intimidated.
We know NOW that this behaviour wasn't extreme, but whatever happened, and we only know a bit of it, Katrien was reportedly close to tears. Is that OK?
'Reportedly'. Initially it was reported that there were lots of charlton fans standing around her and abusing her. The only real evidence we have of that event is the video, and it is nothing like the initial reports suggested. It was that initial report that suggested she was close to tears too.
With all due respect you weren't on the train. Standing there you could clearly see that Katrien looked upset and yes she did look as if she had tears in her eyes. (I was standing a couple of feet away from her)
I never said that were people abusing her, someone did call them a bunch of Belgium c***s though.
It could have been a lot worse but standing there as it was happening, it seemed over the top.
Just to add, I know a lot of people do, including myself get tears in my eyes when I get into really passionate argument. If it appeared to you that she did have tears in her eyes, it may just have been out of the adrenalin of talking to this bloke not out of her feeling intimidated.
I'd think that's highly likely, added to the stress of the last few days and a crap result for a team that she might herself actually care something about. I'm sure she's not a fragile little woman.
Anyone that thinks that video is abusive and terrifying needs to get their head out of there arse. Apart from asking the same question over and over the fella didn't do a lot wrong. Why Katrien insists that the appointment process was thorough and normal is anyone's guess.
Because the work permit requirements oblige her to do so.....?
Surely the Home Office will need more than a quote from a press conference to prove that?
You'd think so – but a poorly executed attempt to appear to meet the work permit requirements seems to me more plausible than believing that what she claimed at that press conference actually took place – that between the Monday afternoon announcement of Peeter's departure and the “late evening [when] it became clear that Guy was the favourite” not only had she received '20 applications' but also interviewed one or more of them in addition to Luzon.
She is a corporate lawyer and would probably understand that there was at least a chance of Luzon being refused a work permit if he was simply appointed without the appearance of some sort of 'selection' process taking place.
I've read on a couple of poosts about the reported issues at the training ground can anyone enlighten me or message me what these reported issues were. Also while we're at it I did read on one post re Bob Peeters of misconduct. Again can anyone advise about this ? Thanks
I've read on a couple of poosts about the reported issues at the training ground can anyone enlighten me or message me what these reported issues were. Also while we're at it I did read on one post re Bob Peeters of misconduct. Again can anyone advise about this ? Thanks
By and large, I think most charlton fans are decent, honest and hardworking people, I think the whole Katrain episode shows that she needs to do this thing properly and get herself down to Bromley addicks for a q and a.
I have just seen the video and neither party was either bullying nor intimidated by what I saw there. I think it was a fair and frank discussion where for the most part both participants were trying to sustain their case by focusing on detail. The Charlton fan is pretty well informed, and of course Katrien is aware of detail too. I actually quite liked both parties, even if some of the things each of them said I would have difficulties with.
Agree with what you say Seth.
Found it a bit uncomfortable to watch, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I thought the guy was putting a good point of view across....until Pork Jewell was mentioned.
Comments
I think in reality this fan just put his points across in the way that was natural to him, and he was making a concerted effort to not show the full extent of how angry he was and trying to articulate his opinions as best he could. I didn't see any shouting or anything else mentioned on this thread.
As for people talking about his body language being intimidating, that's just how 'proper geezers' stand. Walk into any pub around Charlton and you'll probably see about 20 blokes standing like their testicles are 50cm diameter.
An interesting thing that happened and nothing more.
2. You think they don't know? Chants of "F off Roland" "Roland is a C" at the match, Chants and a banner "We want our Charlton back.". A tweet went out yesterday on the way to the match to the effect I'm sitting on the train and Katiren is next to me, Charlton fans reply "Give her a slap and tell her she is a whore!" Interview with her on Fridays Charlton Live in response to a question about enjoying the job, she responds as part of her answer that most of her mail is hate mail, but laughs it off. Between you and me, I think the club know how the fans feel without a drunken goon ranting at a member of the club.
In terms of the conversation. I find it a pity a covert recording has gone online, it only serves to make KM more guarded and/or less available from now on.
They must be left with the impression that all travelling football fans are just a couple of generations evolved from neanderthal man, when in truth only about 85% are.
2 Chants and banners are one thing,seeing the anger/frustration close hand is another and may have actually registered more than other protest. The person who sent that Twitter comment is not even worth bothering about ... social media has given some lowlife a voice but they do not speak for the majority. And the guy himself may have had a drink but it was not a drunken rant. And I am sure Ms Meire is used to hate mail in the job she's in and, as she says and is right to do, laughs it off.
I think I've had it with our fans.
There are way too many brainless, negative tossers detailed in your post.
I never said that were people abusing her, someone did call them a bunch of Belgium c***s though.
It could have been a lot worse but standing there as it was happening, it seemed over the top.
If you seriously believe that then you have no idea. I've had to deal with justified and unjustified customer complaints and parent complaints and the last thing you say to the sober, let alone the drunk is "I am not prepared to talk to you", even if they approach you in your own time.
She is a corporate lawyer and would probably understand that there was at least a chance of Luzon being refused a work permit if he was simply appointed without the appearance of some sort of 'selection' process taking place.
Also while we're at it I did read on one post re Bob Peeters of misconduct. Again can anyone advise about this ?
Thanks
Found it a bit uncomfortable to watch, but it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I thought the guy was putting a good point of view across....until Pork Jewell was mentioned.