I don't think I would say the majority were largely OK with things. It was by far the most hostile VIP meeting I've been to and there was quite a lot of applause for the questions about poor communication and irrational decisions and people feeling dismayed.
But, don't forget that people can feel very uncomfortable with conflict and there is a strong desire to return to the "safe" topics like kit colour and JJ's injury.
A few people shouted down Covered End when he tried to ask follow up questions, but nothing more than that. I would say there wasn't much evidence to say there was a majority either way.
Like most people, I just want to be reassured and then go to the match. Some will have been reassured by the meeting
It was quite clear a large enough number of the people in the room are happy with the current situation and quite happy to shout those down who feel differently.
This must be the self-proclaimed 'silent majority' we're always hearing about.
Every club has idiots among its following
But it's nice that within Charlton Life you are tolerated
Seth you have turned into a warrior, you have gone from a moderate, play it for laughs into a win at all costs man ? on and off the pitch.
You would have been proud of my tirade at Luzon at H/T against Norwich. no swearing just telling him to play Tony and Igor together from the start.
The spirit before the kick off was better than i thought it would be after Norwich, mainly because of JJ speech and The line up, fans weren't sure about Bulot but like me felt he was starting in his best position.
Katrien is taking a risk if she does not keep cafc fans who have worked for the club and know about it's DNA, onside. As LBJ the American President said I would rather have those people pissing out from the tent than outside the tent pissing in!
Airman, Steve, Matt, Jimmy and Wendy, i'm not saying your all on the piss but..........
I see myself as pretty moderate, but because I have loyally followed, supported and helped this club since 1963 I am not going to go quietly, they will end up dragging me away kicking and screaming before I give up. What was it Dylan Thomas said about 'rage rage against the dying of the light'?
Thanks for the notes. My feeling on reading them is that KM is saying they will continue todo as we want. It is hard to believe the appointment of Luzon was a transparent and open recruitment. I may be old fashioned, taken by my Dad to the Valley in 1961! But I go to see football. I do want success, but a least an attempt at success. I do not accept new ventilation and catering improvements as a substitute. Tonight's meeting is as important as ever. I still do not think RD ( or as we are told you only deal with KM) really understand. Let's get Charlton back.
The million to be spent on air con, is it likely to be in lieu of/at the expense of a heavily discounted sponsorship fee with our current sponsors rather than new cold hard cash?
Absolutely nothing wrong with that if so and would make commercial sense but would put a different spin on it being a new "investment" as is being touted.
I notice from the write up there was no answer to the question regarding Luzon's wife following CAFC on twitter weeks before he was appointed? Or have i just missed it?
I notice from the write up there was no answer to the question regarding Luzon's wife following CAFC on twitter weeks before he was appointed? Or have i just missed it?
She was busy signing up to Brentford's twitter page.
If I was the new club PR consultant, I would consider putting out the unedited video of the Luzon less hour long heavily controlled VIP meeting during tonights meeting at Woolwich.
The million to be spent on air con, is it likely to be in lieu of/at the expense of a heavily discounted sponsorship fee with our current sponsors rather than new cold hard cash?
Absolutely nothing wrong with that if so and would make commercial sense but would put a different spin on it being a new "investment" as is being touted.
Not sure I agree. It means that sponsorship money that is revenue for the club has gone into AC, the difference being that the club has not needed to go through the invoicing process.
My concern on this is that I don't care about AC as much as I do about the players on the pitch and the fans, let KM get sweaty in her office while the team perform on the pitch
Why do we need air con? It's bloody freezing in the stands for 90% of the games. Or is it for the function suites? Which are far more important, of course.
The stuff about air-conditioning is a bit of a puzzle to me. As far as I'm aware the main lounges and staff offices have air conditioning, indeed the main complaint in the west stand over the years has been that it was too effective in summer and rooms were too cold. It may be different on hot matchdays, given the volume of people, but we mostly play in winter. Either way I'm sure it can be improved, but for football it must be a marginal concern.
Secondly, the club has outsourced the lounges. Either this is expenditure required by the existing contract and therefore factored in originally against the revenue or it is investment that is likely to provide very limited financial returns for the club and is therefore a strange priority for the business? Much like replacing perfectly functional seats.
It was quite clear a large enough number of the people in the room are happy with the current situation and quite happy to shout those down who feel differently.
This must be the self-proclaimed 'silent majority' we're always hearing about.
Every club has idiots among its following
But it's nice that within Charlton Life you are tolerated
Yes thanks everybody.
More real fans on here. Katrien wants to appeal to those for whom the Valley is their social life so they will accept anything or those that want a fun family day out to meet friends with some football in betweeen, with decent wifi, special pies and some nice grass.
When attending matches at the Valley the only time I go indoors anywhere is to the bogs. Air conditioning means jack to most fans in the East and South stands.
The million to be spent on air con, is it likely to be in lieu of/at the expense of a heavily discounted sponsorship fee with our current sponsors rather than new cold hard cash?
Absolutely nothing wrong with that if so and would make commercial sense but would put a different spin on it being a new "investment" as is being touted.
let KM get sweaty in her office while the team perform on the pitch
Ha! Seen many an online film with that theme over the years!
It was quite clear a large enough number of the people in the room are happy with the current situation and quite happy to shout those down who feel differently.
This must be the self-proclaimed 'silent majority' we're always hearing about.
Every club has idiots among its following
But it's nice that within Charlton Life you are tolerated
Yes thanks everybody.
More real fans on here. Katrien wants to appeal to those for whom the Valley is their social life so they will accept anything or those that want a fun family day out to meet friends with some football in betweeen, with decent wifi, special and some nice grass.
I assume you will be there tonight to voice your concerns? I certainly will.
The million to be spent on air con, is it likely to be in lieu of/at the expense of a heavily discounted sponsorship fee with our current sponsors rather than new cold hard cash?
Absolutely nothing wrong with that if so and would make commercial sense but would put a different spin on it being a new "investment" as is being touted.
Not sure I agree. It means that sponsorship money that is revenue for the club has gone into AC, the difference being that the club has not needed to go through the invoicing process.
My concern on this is that I don't care about AC as much as I do about the players on the pitch and the fans, let KM get sweaty in her office while the team perform on the pitch
Seriously , a million quid on air con, I know it's old ground but I'd have rather we'd spent it on Yann, we might have enjoyed better football, better results, and be knocking on the playoffs.
He's starting to get fed up with how this shower are operating. Threatened to not turn up at all, but in the end thought he'd just turn up late to let Katrien squirm a bit.
Is it just me, but I at least welcome the statement about aiming to be a stable Championship club with aspirations for the Premier League. A bit bland, but it provides a yardstick against which to measure progress. Relegation would be a failure. Season after season of struggling against relegation would be a failure. Mid to upper in the table would be on plan. Promotion in a few years would be a success.
KM will not deal with the trust and they want to treat all supporters groups the same via the fans forum. Two problems with this:-
The trust get treated the same as Syd Cheeswright train travelers despite a huge difference in the 2 groups numbers
Why is she doing 2 Q&A with supporters groups in the next month
Would have loved to have these questions but the meeting was cut far too short and early and the presenter wanted too many questions to be asked of the other guests.
I doubt if Katrien even understands that the large majority of fans have no representation at the FF, because the groups tend to be geographical and have relatively small membership. One of the more bizarre aspects is that Valley Gold - the largest group - is represented by an employee, yet VG is a members' club with no formal accountability to its members at all.
This is not the fault of the FF or the people there. It always was an imperfect mechanism, but huge emphasis is now being placed on a structure that can't really stand it.
I don't disagree with your general observations on the FF, Airman, it's not a mechanism for engagement of supporters beyond operational matters. I doubt many on there seek the views of supporters before attending either, but that may be ok, certainly if they're empowered by those they represent.
A point of order, as it's ambiguous. Valley Gold's rep is not an employee of the football club, but of Charlton Club (i.e. Valley Gold). Charlton Club is formally a fundraising lottery organisation, subject to regulation, Its Committee is empowered to manage its affairs, which presumes representation of member interests. Sharon is empowered by the Committee to represent the scheme's interests at the FF. The alternative would be for one of the Committee's supporters' representatives to attend, but as I'm one of them I can assure you we both have faith in Sharon to do this on our behalf.
I do think there's a slight mischief at play: if the FF isn't that relevant then let's not spend too much time worrying about whether the VG rep is acceptable. If it is, then let's plan to bolster up its representation?
KM will not deal with the trust and they want to treat all supporters groups the same via the fans forum. Two problems with this:-
The trust get treated the same as Syd Cheeswright train travelers despite a huge difference in the 2 groups numbers
Why is she doing 2 Q&A with supporters groups in the next month
Would have loved to have these questions but the meeting was cut far too short and early and the presenter wanted too many questions to be asked of the other guests.
I doubt if Katrien even understands that the large majority of fans have no representation at the FF, because the groups tend to be geographical and have relatively small membership. One of the more bizarre aspects is that Valley Gold - the largest group - is represented by an employee, yet VG is a members' club with no formal accountability to its members at all.
This is not the fault of the FF or the people there. It always was an imperfect mechanism, but huge emphasis is now being placed on a structure that can't really stand it.
I don't disagree with your general observations on the FF, Airman, it's not a mechanism for engagement of supporters beyond operational matters. I doubt many on there seek the views of supporters before attending either, but that may be ok, certainly if they're empowered by those they represent.
A point of order, as it's ambiguous. Valley Gold's rep is not an employee of the football club, but of Charlton Club (i.e. Valley Gold). Charlton Club is formally a fundraising lottery organisation, subject to regulation, Its Committee is empowered to manage its affairs, which presumes representation of member interests. Sharon is empowered by the Committee to represent the scheme's interests at the FF. The alternative would be for one of the Committee's supporters' representatives to attend, but as I'm one of them I can assure you we both have faith in Sharon to do this on our behalf.
I do think there's a slight mischief at play: if the FF isn't that relevant then let's not spend too much time worrying about whether the VG rep is acceptable. If it is, then let's plan to bolster up its representation?
I have nothing against Sharron, but interestingly someone working for Charlton Club on Saturday was told they were not allowed to converse with supporters about the football club - and walked out - so I would question how Sharron could represent the scheme effectively to the club in such a forum, which is no criticism of her at all.
The reason I mention VG in the context of the FF is that it will be said it provides representation for a four-figure number of fans at the FF, but in practice this is unlikely to be the case because of the nature of the scheme.
That was one example of refurbishment of the Valley including a new screen.
That sort of thing isn't "exciting" to fans, me included, but that doesn't mean it isn't needed.
If you want to sell more lounge packages especially non match day then you need working air con, heating etc. I know it is buggered in the museum.
There is another ground development in the pipeline which wasn't mentioned last night that many fans will find "exciting".
Unfortunately maintainance stuff doesn't sell more match tickets but a lack of that maintainance can lead to people not hiring the valley for weddings etc.
But I agree that KM would do well to look up hertzbergs motivation theory and distinguish between hygiene and motivation factors.
I agree with Pico that it was not clear that there was a "majority" that backed KM.
Covered East Stand concourse? I would rather have the development of Sparrows Lane. The diggers are due there in eight months, I await that deadline with eager anticipation, and wonder if the start will happen or be pushed back.
KM will not deal with the trust and they want to treat all supporters groups the same via the fans forum. Two problems with this:-
The trust get treated the same as Syd Cheeswright train travelers despite a huge difference in the 2 groups numbers
Why is she doing 2 Q&A with supporters groups in the next month
Would have loved to have these questions but the meeting was cut far too short and early and the presenter wanted too many questions to be asked of the other guests.
I doubt if Katrien even understands that the large majority of fans have no representation at the FF, because the groups tend to be geographical and have relatively small membership. One of the more bizarre aspects is that Valley Gold - the largest group - is represented by an employee, yet VG is a members' club with no formal accountability to its members at all.
This is not the fault of the FF or the people there. It always was an imperfect mechanism, but huge emphasis is now being placed on a structure that can't really stand it.
I don't disagree with your general observations on the FF, Airman, it's not a mechanism for engagement of supporters beyond operational matters. I doubt many on there seek the views of supporters before attending either, but that may be ok, certainly if they're empowered by those they represent.
A point of order, as it's ambiguous. Valley Gold's rep is not an employee of the football club, but of Charlton Club (i.e. Valley Gold). Charlton Club is formally a fundraising lottery organisation, subject to regulation, Its Committee is empowered to manage its affairs, which presumes representation of member interests. Sharon is empowered by the Committee to represent the scheme's interests at the FF. The alternative would be for one of the Committee's supporters' representatives to attend, but as I'm one of them I can assure you we both have faith in Sharon to do this on our behalf.
I do think there's a slight mischief at play: if the FF isn't that relevant then let's not spend too much time worrying about whether the VG rep is acceptable. If it is, then let's plan to bolster up its representation?
I have nothing against Sharron, but interestingly someone working for Charlton Club on Saturday was told they were not allowed to converse with supporters about the football club - and walked out - so I would question how Sharron could represent the scheme effectively to the club in such a forum, which is no criticism of her at all.
The reason I mention VG in the context of the FF is that it will be said it provides representation for a four-figure number of fans at the FF, but in practice this is unlikely to be the case because of the nature of the scheme.
Re Sharron, if your concerns aren't personality related, I presume you had the same issue when Wendy represented VG? We share the view on the FF's relative impotence, though.
Re that direction, I imagine you're talking about one of the lottery sellers, but whoever it was it's not their role to talk about the football club is it? They're working for Charlton Club and can talk about that all they like, of course.
That said, if direction came from anyone other than Sharron or another Charlton Club employee then I'd be a little concerned at that message. If there are specific concerns, Airman, I'm very happy to raise these at the next Committee - come talk to me tonight, if there's time.
Seriously , a million quid on air con, I know it's old ground but I'd have rather we'd spent it on Yann, we might have enjoyed better football, better results, and be knocking on the playoffs.
I believe the existing air-con has reached the end of its shelf life. As air con units get older they become inefficient and increased risk of spreading disease. They will either need servicing and maintenance or replacement.
Rest assured if my company works on it I'll save a few quid.
KM will not deal with the trust and they want to treat all supporters groups the same via the fans forum. Two problems with this:-
The trust get treated the same as Syd Cheeswright train travelers despite a huge difference in the 2 groups numbers
Why is she doing 2 Q&A with supporters groups in the next month
Would have loved to have these questions but the meeting was cut far too short and early and the presenter wanted too many questions to be asked of the other guests.
I doubt if Katrien even understands that the large majority of fans have no representation at the FF, because the groups tend to be geographical and have relatively small membership. One of the more bizarre aspects is that Valley Gold - the largest group - is represented by an employee, yet VG is a members' club with no formal accountability to its members at all.
This is not the fault of the FF or the people there. It always was an imperfect mechanism, but huge emphasis is now being placed on a structure that can't really stand it.
I don't disagree with your general observations on the FF, Airman, it's not a mechanism for engagement of supporters beyond operational matters. I doubt many on there seek the views of supporters before attending either, but that may be ok, certainly if they're empowered by those they represent.
A point of order, as it's ambiguous. Valley Gold's rep is not an employee of the football club, but of Charlton Club (i.e. Valley Gold). Charlton Club is formally a fundraising lottery organisation, subject to regulation, Its Committee is empowered to manage its affairs, which presumes representation of member interests. Sharon is empowered by the Committee to represent the scheme's interests at the FF. The alternative would be for one of the Committee's supporters' representatives to attend, but as I'm one of them I can assure you we both have faith in Sharon to do this on our behalf.
I do think there's a slight mischief at play: if the FF isn't that relevant then let's not spend too much time worrying about whether the VG rep is acceptable. If it is, then let's plan to bolster up its representation?
I have nothing against Sharron, but interestingly someone working for Charlton Club on Saturday was told they were not allowed to converse with supporters about the football club - and walked out - so I would question how Sharron could represent the scheme effectively to the club in such a forum, which is no criticism of her at all.
The reason I mention VG in the context of the FF is that it will be said it provides representation for a four-figure number of fans at the FF, but in practice this is unlikely to be the case because of the nature of the scheme.
Re Sharron, if your concerns aren't personality related, I presume you had the same issue when Wendy represented VG? We share the view on the FF's relative impotence, though.
Re that direction, I imagine you're talking about one of the lottery sellers, but whoever it was it's not their role to talk about the football club is it? They're working for Charlton Club and can talk about that all they like, of course.
That said, if direction came from anyone other than Sharron or another Charlton Club employee then I'd be a little concerned at that message. If there are specific concerns, Airman, I'm very happy to raise these at the next Committee - come talk to me tonight, if there's time.
The point is the same whoever Charlton Club sends - it has no mechanism or mandate to represent the views of its members, since its committee is not elected by them.
Comments
But, don't forget that people can feel very uncomfortable with conflict and there is a strong desire to return to the "safe" topics like kit colour and JJ's injury.
A few people shouted down Covered End when he tried to ask follow up questions, but nothing more than that. I would say there wasn't much evidence to say there was a majority either way.
Like most people, I just want to be reassured and then go to the match. Some will have been reassured by the meeting
I may be old fashioned, taken by my Dad to the Valley in 1961! But I go to see football. I do want success, but a least an attempt at success. I do not accept new ventilation and catering improvements as a substitute.
Tonight's meeting is as important as ever. I still do not think RD ( or as we are told you only deal with KM) really understand.
Let's get Charlton back.
Absolutely nothing wrong with that if so and would make commercial sense but would put a different spin on it being a new "investment" as is being touted.
My concern on this is that I don't care about AC as much as I do about the players on the pitch and the fans, let KM get sweaty in her office while the team perform on the pitch
Secondly, the club has outsourced the lounges. Either this is expenditure required by the existing contract and therefore factored in originally against the revenue or it is investment that is likely to provide very limited financial returns for the club and is therefore a strange priority for the business? Much like replacing perfectly functional seats.
More real fans on here. Katrien wants to appeal to those for whom the Valley is their social life so they will accept anything or those that want a fun family day out to meet friends with some football in betweeen, with decent wifi, special pies and some nice grass.
He's starting to get fed up with how this shower are operating. Threatened to not turn up at all, but in the end thought he'd just turn up late to let Katrien squirm a bit.
A point of order, as it's ambiguous. Valley Gold's rep is not an employee of the football club, but of Charlton Club (i.e. Valley Gold). Charlton Club is formally a fundraising lottery organisation, subject to regulation, Its Committee is empowered to manage its affairs, which presumes representation of member interests. Sharon is empowered by the Committee to represent the scheme's interests at the FF. The alternative would be for one of the Committee's supporters' representatives to attend, but as I'm one of them I can assure you we both have faith in Sharon to do this on our behalf.
I do think there's a slight mischief at play: if the FF isn't that relevant then let's not spend too much time worrying about whether the VG rep is acceptable. If it is, then let's plan to bolster up its representation?
The reason I mention VG in the context of the FF is that it will be said it provides representation for a four-figure number of fans at the FF, but in practice this is unlikely to be the case because of the nature of the scheme.
That was one example of refurbishment of the Valley including a new screen.
That sort of thing isn't "exciting" to fans, me included, but that doesn't mean it isn't needed.
If you want to sell more lounge packages especially non match day then you need working air con, heating etc. I know it is buggered in the museum.
There is another ground development in the pipeline which wasn't mentioned last night that many fans will find "exciting".
Unfortunately maintainance stuff doesn't sell more match tickets but a lack of that maintainance can lead to people not hiring the valley for weddings etc.
But I agree that KM would do well to look up hertzbergs motivation theory and distinguish between hygiene and motivation factors.
I agree with Pico that it was not clear that there was a "majority" that backed KM.
I would rather have the development of Sparrows Lane. The diggers are due there in eight months, I await that deadline with eager anticipation, and wonder if the start will happen or be pushed back.
Sorry, the club will say when it's confirmed but don't worry its not THAT exciting.
Re that direction, I imagine you're talking about one of the lottery sellers, but whoever it was it's not their role to talk about the football club is it? They're working for Charlton Club and can talk about that all they like, of course.
That said, if direction came from anyone other than Sharron or another Charlton Club employee then I'd be a little concerned at that message. If there are specific concerns, Airman, I'm very happy to raise these at the next Committee - come talk to me tonight, if there's time.
Rest assured if my company works on it I'll save a few quid.