Have watched the video through and my take is that a lot of griping is being made about not a lot.
The air-con remark was a throw away point highlighting one of many areas that money will be spent.
I personally think Katrien showed herself in a positive light, she answered all questions asked of her and didn't hide behind anyone/anything to avoid them. She came across honest even when the answer was not what people wanted to hear, for instance her final point that RD will not be at any meetings and communication is through her. To put it in perspective, Richard Branson owns numerous worldwide companies, does he meet with all his customers? does he attend every meeting? or does he appoint people he trusts to act on his behalf with his best interests at heart?
I think its evident that the management structure at the club have made mistakes over the past 12 months, with communication, player recruitment etc. But its a learning curve for them too. They have showed they have invested in the squad, training ground and valley facilities, all off which was due. I personally think this byes them some time to learn from their mistakes.
As for the manager appointment process, I think a lot of people need to get off their high horses. I have never known any business reveal details of rejected interviewees for a position, let alone in the world of football management. As previously stated on here, how would those managers feel, or potentially how would the clubs they may be currently employed with feel. Does anybody know who was interviewed and rejected at QPR, Forest, Norwich, Blackpool or Birmingham this season alone? Certain communication does need to be improved, but an open book has and will never happen, so stop criticising on those grounds.
As for GL not being there, I'm glad, his main job and what he is paid to do is win football matches and I'm sure being at Reading last night would better suit that than being at the Valley.
ive just watched the video too and am still deeply un-impressed. At the end of the day - football should be the priority. Getting a good squad together, playing well, getting results etc. that is what should come first. Not a new screen, air con etc.
I still find her very un-trustworthy. I just can't help but feel she is lying to us again and again. I don't believe any other managers were interviewed personally.
I appreciate Guy Luzon going to watch Wigan last night, but why was that decision made at the last minute? As 'head coach' he should have attended that meeting. I am sure if they had explained that it needed to be postponed etc. in order to enable him to attend, people would have accepted that. At the end of the day, Wigan last night was nothing more than a convenient excuse for him not to attend.
Katrien comes across as an arrogant, stubborn woman, who has no time for supporters and attends events like last night to try and appease those that give a shit about our club. It was something she had to do rather than something she wanted to do and that comes across in her responses to questions.
I feel it is already too late for many fans. So many have decided to stop attending games it will be hard to win them back.
We won last weekend, and it honestly feels like everyone has thought, "we're safe" " Luzon knows what he's doing" " we've turned a corner" - we haven't. we are still run as a play thing for a very rich man. We will continue to be fed lies. We will continue to receive crap players from 'the network' and we have no hope of getting into the premier league without huge investment in players, management and coaching staff. Look at the clubs pushing for promotion - that's exactly what they've done. We wont ever do that under RD and KM because they DO NOT believe in spending money. They don't like paying for players. They don't like paying agents fees. They don't like paying higher than average wages. Whilst I appreciate you can't do that all the time, if you want to succeed in football, you have to do it sometimes.
I thought the good questions last night were not answered adequately and my fear is that tonight's meeting, will achieve very little, not because of lack of effort etc. on behalf of the trust, but because it will be seen as nothing more than an itch that needs scratching by the likes of KM, RD and GL
Whilst I wouldn't expect the names of the other candidates for the 'Head Coach' position be made public, it would be nice for Katrien to explain why Guy Luzon was picked as the best candidate, three months after he had been sacked at Standard Liege.
If RD considered that he wasn't good enough to continue as coach of SL, why was he considered good enough for us?
Mentioned that Tony Watt wasn't bought with peanuts..
Tony wasn't bought with peanuts no, just a piece of paper addressed Roland, signed by Roland ... simple move of an asset.
To be honest a major point of RD's 'experiment' is to move about players and hopefully burst into profit by buying and improving worth and selling on. Even if at risk of getting that club relegated/missing promotion. The real question I had lingering (before the night was brought to an abrupt end), was.. IF and this is a huge IF, as it is not realistically possible, all clubs break even within the network. What does Roland gain? Realistically. He is not a football fan, he is not a supporter of any of these clubs. I reckon there's more than meets the eye to this man and always have done, tax comes to mind but that's another ball game. Who knows...
Onwards and upwards. Money talks in this world and most certainly in this game.
Whilst I wouldn't expect the names of the other candidates for the 'Head Coach' position be made public, it would be nice for Katrien to explain why Guy Luzon was picked as the best candidate, three months after he had been sacked at Standard Liege.
If RD considered that he wasn't good enough to continue as coach of SL, why was he considered good enough for us?
One was Alan Curbs, they class it as an interview but from what I hear it was something along these lines... Curbs turned up at the Valley and not too long after..
"Would I have full say in picking my team and recruiting players?" "No" "Thanks and bye.."
Pretty much a non entity these interviews, no English MANAGER* in their right mind would sign up to us, they would be putting their own credentials on the line - managers taking responsibility for losses - some (or all?) of the losses under us would not be 100% their fault, if they are pushed players and not able to craft their own squad to work with.
There is another ground development in the pipeline which wasn't mentioned last night that many fans will find "exciting".
What is it?
Bloody new posters asking questions : - )
Sorry, the club will say when it's confirmed but don't worry its not THAT exciting.
Did I read that right, we're getting a million quids worth of new posters at The Valley? I hope it's the one of the tennis player scratching her bum, will this see Athena return to the High Street?
Sorry I posted this on the wrong thread, it was supposed to be for this one.
There is a equivocal element to aspects of what is said on the video.
On one level some fans are saying it's all awful, and looks like it will stay that way, and Katrien is saying no it's not, what more can I say, and you have to believe me' almost bordering on Katrien saying 'are you calling me a liar'. Katrien has frequently said she is in charge, certainly as the person at the front of the store, and what she says is right, and her integrity ought not to be questioned, she is even borderline insulted if her voracity, and integrity, and her version of events are deemed in any way to lack probity.
However we then get to the bit where fans ask for Roland. Katrien says then that there is no need, she knows what is in his mind and will speak for him, indeed it is as if Roland has given Katrien the role of not only his eyes and ears, but his mouth and voice too.
So we have somebody freely admitting she has no actual autonomy (Je Suis Roland as it were) yet insisting that she is the decision maker and acts with integrity. So if I get this right Katrien is acting with Rolands integrity but not her own. To criticise or question her, is to criticise and question Roland. However she is not a puppet.
It is weird to want it both ways, to say you're following orders, but you actually make the decisions. Katrien repeatedly asserts her personal authority at Charlton Athletic, yet she can't behave with autonomy either. Is this not some kind of mental gymnastics or does it make perfect sense?
Sorry I posted this on the wrong thread, it was supposed to be for this one.
There is a equivocal element to aspects of what is said on the video.
On one level some fans are saying it's all awful, and looks like it will stay that way, and Katrien is saying no it's not, what more can I say, and you have to believe me' almost bordering on Katrien saying 'are you calling me a liar'. Katrien has frequently said she is in charge, certainly as the person at the front of the store, and what she says is right, and her integrity ought not to be questioned, she is even borderline insulted if her voracity, and integrity, and her version of events are deemed in any way to lack probity.
However we then get to the bit where fans ask for Roland. Katrien says then that there is no need, she knows what is in his mind and will speak for him, indeed it is as if Roland has given Katrien the role of not only his eyes and ears, but his mouth and voice too.
So we have somebody freely admitting she has no actual autonomy (Je Suis Roland as it were) yet insisting that she is the decision maker and acts with integrity. So if I get this right Katrien is acting with Rolands integrity but not her own. To criticise or question her, is to criticise and question Roland. However she is not a puppet.
It is weird to want it both ways, to say you're following orders, but you actually make the decisions. Katrien repeatedly asserts her personal authority at Charlton Athletic, yet she can't behave with autonomy either. Is this not some kind of mental gymnastics or does it make perfect sense?
Don't think she says that at all.
In response to Pico's request for Roland to come and speak to fans she says communication comes through her and your not going to get a different message from Roland so deal with me, I'm in charge here.
Sorry I posted this on the wrong thread, it was supposed to be for this one.
There is a equivocal element to aspects of what is said on the video.
On one level some fans are saying it's all awful, and looks like it will stay that way, and Katrien is saying no it's not, what more can I say, and you have to believe me' almost bordering on Katrien saying 'are you calling me a liar'. Katrien has frequently said she is in charge, certainly as the person at the front of the store, and what she says is right, and her integrity ought not to be questioned, she is even borderline insulted if her voracity, and integrity, and her version of events are deemed in any way to lack probity.
However we then get to the bit where fans ask for Roland. Katrien says then that there is no need, she knows what is in his mind and will speak for him, indeed it is as if Roland has given Katrien the role of not only his eyes and ears, but his mouth and voice too.
So we have somebody freely admitting she has no actual autonomy (Je Suis Roland as it were) yet insisting that she is the decision maker and acts with integrity. So if I get this right Katrien is acting with Rolands integrity but not her own. To criticise or question her, is to criticise and question Roland. However she is not a puppet.
It is weird to want it both ways, to say you're following orders, but you actually make the decisions. Katrien repeatedly asserts her personal authority at Charlton Athletic, yet she can't behave with autonomy either. Is this not some kind of mental gymnastics or does it make perfect sense?
Was thinking the same Seth. She's Bertie big balls but has to go over to Belgium to grovell for some proxy air conditioning!
She is a puppet. The big decisions, ie those involving any sustantial monetary involvement, will most definitely not be made by her.
Having read through that lot, all I can determine for sure is that visiting fans will likely change their song from "your grounds too big for you" to "your grounds too good for you."
For one minute, let's strip away the emotional baggage that we all have as supporters of our great club and look at it in a rational, not emotional way.
In the past 14 months the club is better financially, league position would indicate we are better from a playing perspective, we have much better facilities, and there is a realistic (in my view) strategy linked to Cat1 status aspirations to make the club sustainable in the long-term by developing and adding value to our youth.
CAFC is a private company wholly owned (as far as I can see) by RD. There is no emotional baggage and it would be unrealistic to expect there to be. A lot (not all) of this thread is attempting to pick fault merely for the sake of supporting their own position - and I firmly believe that some posters would pick an argument in an empty room.
Nothing that is said on CL, the other place, the meeting tonight, the VIP meeting last night will ever change RD's plans. His own success or failure criteria will do that - and he has no obligation to tell us what they might be. Does he have to get our permission? No. Did he have to provide justification for his managerial appointments or signings? No. We can disagree of course, and I am certainly not happy with a lot of what's gone on over the past year - but at the end of the day, apart from it being night, there is bugger all we can do to forcibly bring about change unless someone amongst the more vociferous on here can stump up the readies and then convince RD to sell. But for CAFC to survive that person would need to be an astute business person, devoid of the emotion we all feel.
Just watched the entire video, wasn't impressed at all to be honest, lots of bland answers (apart from JJ and Watt) and talking about investment in the pitch, training ground, new air con etc. So, unless I didn't hear it, but did anyone ask about any new players coming in (the sound kept cutting out) after-all the meeting was held after we knew that JJ will be out for awhile and the Spurs lad is out for the season, so are we getting any more midfielder players in to help strengthen the squad? JJ actually said we have a small squad - well it just got smaller!! Pity I couldn't hear all the questions but it certainly ended abruptly!!
Until Roland pitches up. Announces we are spending" 50 squilion on players and are on our way to the premier league baby." Then I for one will not be happy.
As you can see, I can't make my mind up about all of these goings on.
I notice from the write up there was no answer to the question regarding Luzon's wife following CAFC on twitter weeks before he was appointed? Or have i just missed it?
Richard Murray said this wasn't true.
KM muttered under her breath that Luzon's wife did not have a twitter account.
I notice from the write up there was no answer to the question regarding Luzon's wife following CAFC on twitter weeks before he was appointed? Or have i just missed it?
Richard Murray said this wasn't true.
KM muttered under her breath that Luzon's wife did not have a twitter account.
Well the fake account seems to have a lot of access to photos of Mrs. Luzon:
I notice from the write up there was no answer to the question regarding Luzon's wife following CAFC on twitter weeks before he was appointed? Or have i just missed it?
Richard Murray said this wasn't true.
KM muttered under her breath that Luzon's wife did not have a twitter account.
Well the fake account seems to have a lot of access to photos of Mrs. Luzon:
Have watched the video through and my take is that a lot of griping is being made about not a lot.
The air-con remark was a throw away point highlighting one of many areas that money will be spent.
I personally think Katrien showed herself in a positive light, she answered all questions asked of her and didn't hide behind anyone/anything to avoid them. She came across honest even when the answer was not what people wanted to hear, for instance her final point that RD will not be at any meetings and communication is through her. To put it in perspective, Richard Branson owns numerous worldwide companies, does he meet with all his customers? does he attend every meeting? or does he appoint people he trusts to act on his behalf with his best interests at heart?
I think its evident that the management structure at the club have made mistakes over the past 12 months, with communication, player recruitment etc. But its a learning curve for them too. They have showed they have invested in the squad, training ground and valley facilities, all off which was due. I personally think this byes them some time to learn from their mistakes.
As for the manager appointment process, I think a lot of people need to get off their high horses. I have never known any business reveal details of rejected interviewees for a position, let alone in the world of football management. As previously stated on here, how would those managers feel, or potentially how would the clubs they may be currently employed with feel. Does anybody know who was interviewed and rejected at QPR, Forest, Norwich, Blackpool or Birmingham this season alone? Certain communication does need to be improved, but an open book has and will never happen, so stop criticising on those grounds.
As for GL not being there, I'm glad, his main job and what he is paid to do is win football matches and I'm sure being at Reading last night would better suit that than being at the Valley.
Anyway that's my thoughts for what its worth.
Biut does Richard Branson monitor everything that goes on in those companies to the extent Roland is portrayed as doing by Katrien. Is he constantly on the phone to his executives every day or does he let them manage? I think the line that Katrien is in charge is the big con here. She's a human shield for her boss.
Have watched the video through and my take is that a lot of griping is being made about not a lot.
The air-con remark was a throw away point highlighting one of many areas that money will be spent.
I personally think Katrien showed herself in a positive light, she answered all questions asked of her and didn't hide behind anyone/anything to avoid them. She came across honest even when the answer was not what people wanted to hear, for instance her final point that RD will not be at any meetings and communication is through her. To put it in perspective, Richard Branson owns numerous worldwide companies, does he meet with all his customers? does he attend every meeting? or does he appoint people he trusts to act on his behalf with his best interests at heart?
I think its evident that the management structure at the club have made mistakes over the past 12 months, with communication, player recruitment etc. But its a learning curve for them too. They have showed they have invested in the squad, training ground and valley facilities, all off which was due. I personally think this byes them some time to learn from their mistakes.
As for the manager appointment process, I think a lot of people need to get off their high horses. I have never known any business reveal details of rejected interviewees for a position, let alone in the world of football management. As previously stated on here, how would those managers feel, or potentially how would the clubs they may be currently employed with feel. Does anybody know who was interviewed and rejected at QPR, Forest, Norwich, Blackpool or Birmingham this season alone? Certain communication does need to be improved, but an open book has and will never happen, so stop criticising on those grounds.
As for GL not being there, I'm glad, his main job and what he is paid to do is win football matches and I'm sure being at Reading last night would better suit that than being at the Valley.
Anyway that's my thoughts for what its worth.
Biut does Richard Branson monitor everything that goes on in those companies to the extent Roland is portrayed as doing by Katrien. Is he constantly on the phone to his executives every day or does he let them manage? I think the line that Katrien is in charge is the big con here. She's a human shield for her boss.
I would say the difference is that RD micro-manages.
Comments
The air-con remark was a throw away point highlighting one of many areas that money will be spent.
I personally think Katrien showed herself in a positive light, she answered all questions asked of her and didn't hide behind anyone/anything to avoid them. She came across honest even when the answer was not what people wanted to hear, for instance her final point that RD will not be at any meetings and communication is through her. To put it in perspective, Richard Branson owns numerous worldwide companies, does he meet with all his customers? does he attend every meeting? or does he appoint people he trusts to act on his behalf with his best interests at heart?
I think its evident that the management structure at the club have made mistakes over the past 12 months, with communication, player recruitment etc. But its a learning curve for them too. They have showed they have invested in the squad, training ground and valley facilities, all off which was due. I personally think this byes them some time to learn from their mistakes.
As for the manager appointment process, I think a lot of people need to get off their high horses. I have never known any business reveal details of rejected interviewees for a position, let alone in the world of football management. As previously stated on here, how would those managers feel, or potentially how would the clubs they may be currently employed with feel. Does anybody know who was interviewed and rejected at QPR, Forest, Norwich, Blackpool or Birmingham this season alone?
Certain communication does need to be improved, but an open book has and will never happen, so stop criticising on those grounds.
As for GL not being there, I'm glad, his main job and what he is paid to do is win football matches and I'm sure being at Reading last night would better suit that than being at the Valley.
Anyway that's my thoughts for what its worth.
Some new seats at the Valley, but what else ?
What have they spent at the training ground ?
As for player spend.............we are 4 places (6 points) off relegation, so not sure how effective that has been.
I still find her very un-trustworthy. I just can't help but feel she is lying to us again and again. I don't believe any other managers were interviewed personally.
I appreciate Guy Luzon going to watch Wigan last night, but why was that decision made at the last minute? As 'head coach' he should have attended that meeting. I am sure if they had explained that it needed to be postponed etc. in order to enable him to attend, people would have accepted that. At the end of the day, Wigan last night was nothing more than a convenient excuse for him not to attend.
Katrien comes across as an arrogant, stubborn woman, who has no time for supporters and attends events like last night to try and appease those that give a shit about our club. It was something she had to do rather than something she wanted to do and that comes across in her responses to questions.
I feel it is already too late for many fans. So many have decided to stop attending games it will be hard to win them back.
We won last weekend, and it honestly feels like everyone has thought, "we're safe" " Luzon knows what he's doing" " we've turned a corner" - we haven't. we are still run as a play thing for a very rich man. We will continue to be fed lies. We will continue to receive crap players from 'the network' and we have no hope of getting into the premier league without huge investment in players, management and coaching staff. Look at the clubs pushing for promotion - that's exactly what they've done. We wont ever do that under RD and KM because they DO NOT believe in spending money. They don't like paying for players. They don't like paying agents fees. They don't like paying higher than average wages. Whilst I appreciate you can't do that all the time, if you want to succeed in football, you have to do it sometimes.
I thought the good questions last night were not answered adequately and my fear is that tonight's meeting, will achieve very little, not because of lack of effort etc. on behalf of the trust, but because it will be seen as nothing more than an itch that needs scratching by the likes of KM, RD and GL
If RD considered that he wasn't good enough to continue as coach of SL, why was he considered good enough for us?
Tony wasn't bought with peanuts no, just a piece of paper addressed Roland, signed by Roland ... simple move of an asset.
To be honest a major point of RD's 'experiment' is to move about players and hopefully burst into profit by buying and improving worth and selling on. Even if at risk of getting that club relegated/missing promotion. The real question I had lingering (before the night was brought to an abrupt end), was.. IF and this is a huge IF, as it is not realistically possible, all clubs break even within the network. What does Roland gain? Realistically. He is not a football fan, he is not a supporter of any of these clubs. I reckon there's more than meets the eye to this man and always have done, tax comes to mind but that's another ball game. Who knows...
Onwards and upwards. Money talks in this world and most certainly in this game.
They plan to spend a share of upwards of £10m at the training ground.
As for player spend.... It's got us 6 places (8 points) better of than at the same time last year.
Seriously what do you expect!!!!!
"Would I have full say in picking my team and recruiting players?"
"No"
"Thanks and bye.."
Pretty much a non entity these interviews, no English MANAGER* in their right mind would sign up to us, they would be putting their own credentials on the line - managers taking responsibility for losses - some (or all?) of the losses under us would not be 100% their fault, if they are pushed players and not able to craft their own squad to work with.
There is a equivocal element to aspects of what is said on the video.
On one level some fans are saying it's all awful, and looks like it will stay that way, and Katrien is saying no it's not, what more can I say, and you have to believe me' almost bordering on Katrien saying 'are you calling me a liar'.
Katrien has frequently said she is in charge, certainly as the person at the front of the store, and what she says is right, and her integrity ought not to be questioned, she is even borderline insulted if her voracity, and integrity, and her version of events are deemed in any way to lack probity.
However we then get to the bit where fans ask for Roland. Katrien says then that there is no need, she knows what is in his mind and will speak for him, indeed it is as if Roland has given Katrien the role of not only his eyes and ears, but his mouth and voice too.
So we have somebody freely admitting she has no actual autonomy (Je Suis Roland as it were) yet insisting that she is the decision maker and acts with integrity. So if I get this right Katrien is acting with Rolands integrity but not her own. To criticise or question her, is to criticise and question Roland. However she is not a puppet.
It is weird to want it both ways, to say you're following orders, but you actually make the decisions. Katrien repeatedly asserts her personal authority at Charlton Athletic, yet she can't behave with autonomy either. Is this not some kind of mental gymnastics or does it make perfect sense?
In response to Pico's request for Roland to come and speak to fans she says communication comes through her and your not going to get a different message from Roland so deal with me, I'm in charge here.
She is a puppet. The big decisions, ie those involving any sustantial monetary involvement, will most definitely not be made by her.
Roland does not invest in the squad ........ OK he does but they are not effective are they.
What investment in The Valley and Training ground, apart from the things they have invested in.
Did not interview any potential replacements for Bob, because if they would not follow the spec that the owners require then they don't count.
There is enough wrong with this regime without creating the issues.
Beyond parody
In the past 14 months the club is better financially, league position would indicate we are better from a playing perspective, we have much better facilities, and there is a realistic (in my view) strategy linked to Cat1 status aspirations to make the club sustainable in the long-term by developing and adding value to our youth.
CAFC is a private company wholly owned (as far as I can see) by RD. There is no emotional baggage and it would be unrealistic to expect there to be. A lot (not all) of this thread is attempting to pick fault merely for the sake of supporting their own position - and I firmly believe that some posters would pick an argument in an empty room.
Nothing that is said on CL, the other place, the meeting tonight, the VIP meeting last night will ever change RD's plans. His own success or failure criteria will do that - and he has no obligation to tell us what they might be. Does he have to get our permission? No. Did he have to provide justification for his managerial appointments or signings? No. We can disagree of course, and I am certainly not happy with a lot of what's gone on over the past year - but at the end of the day, apart from it being night, there is bugger all we can do to forcibly bring about change unless someone amongst the more vociferous on here can stump up the readies and then convince RD to sell. But for CAFC to survive that person would need to be an astute business person, devoid of the emotion we all feel.
Remember Aesop's Fable of the North wind and the Sun
https://www.nfb.ca/film/north_wind_and_sun_fable_by_aesop
Of course this works both ways.
Persuading fans works better than telling them that they have to accept things.
As you can see, I can't make my mind up about all of these goings on.
https://twitter.com/Danafunluzon