I'm not going to bother with going to Palace or Millwall anymore, having a 45 minute diversioned walk back to my car with a dodgy knee just ain't worth it.
This exactly how I feel Mendonca, but if we give in then the idiots have won
A mate of mine went to the toilet at about 35 minutes. We got messages from him about twenty minutes later saying that about 40 people got thrown out because of trouble on the concourse and that they just kicked everyone in the near area out at once.
The seats and the toilets were not as a result of the kettling, they were not a result of stupid policing ... they were wanton acts of vandalism and just maybe the Police radioed ahead to those officers outside the ground and that had some influence on the policing approach outside the ground.
Action probably undertaken by 10-20 people. For which the other 2980 deserve to be kettled, hit with batons, have police dogs set on them and be taken on a route march down a narrow residential side street in totally the opposite direction to where they were parked?.
All the while the people organising this route march stand and shrug their shoulders when asked why it was happening and when they will be letting people head in the direction they need to.
Does not justify it at all, but some were justifyng the wanton vandalism on the kettling, which was not the case. Maybe the police over reaction was in slight part due to what had gone on in the ground. I will also stand by the fact that being kettled does not mean you have to be a vandal and most of the people I saw vandalising were not angry and frustrated they were enjoying themselves enormously.
Ps It was funny outside Norwood Junction Station when the Police camera man was filming us and a fan stood right in front of him and filmed him.
I wish some people would just grow up instead of dragging our club through the mud , walking down the street with my son hearing wing mirrors being pulled off of cars, and local residents being abused verbally, cowering behind their curtains, wondering what the hell is going on outside makes me feel ashamed to support this club, sod going to any more away games this season, not worth the hassle, happy now? Quote
As said. Really wanted to go yesterday, but with my run of luck I'd get nicked before I left Sydenham !
The seats and the toilets were not as a result of the kettling, they were not a result of stupid policing ... they were wanton acts of vandalism and just maybe the Police radioed ahead to those officers outside the ground and that had some influence on the policing approach outside the ground.
I doubt that very much. The "norwood wall" must have been used before.
The police themselves have tweeted that cars have been injured before.
The literally hundreds of cops, dogs and vans on the route were not organised at the last minutes in reaction to a broken seat or a flare.
The police had planned what happened and they got it wrong, wrong. Wrong.
No excuse being made by me for the vandalism but also not going to excuse the police either.
Who guards the guardians?
Talking more about attitudes than numbers, of course the dogs, and numbers and cordons were all in place and planned.
My perspective. 46, middle aged, middle class, dodgy leg which means I sometimes need a stick to walk, yesterday was one of those days. Out on the whistle, got to the kettle point just around the corner, in other words looking at the Belfast fence they have (anyone seen one of those before away?). After about ten minutes, around 20 of the little teenage scrotes you sometimes see started surging. It was obvious what they were going to do and I was trying to move to the side before it happened. We weren't that tightly packed so their momentum pushed a lot of people forward. I went flying, thanks to the two fellas who picked me up. I went into one of the front yards of the houses on the lefy. I'm sure the 5 year old that was in tears wil be looking forward to his next CAFC trip.
The police leaning against the wall of the ground and the fence saw this situation developing and did nothing. I'm not saying they should have waded in but some one to one words would have done the job, I feel.
Anyway, after the surge, we started walking. I was really surprised to see that there were parked cars down the road. If you are going to do this sort of operation you have to clear them. It's a long road and this would be tough on residents, but if the police can justify it then then this is what needs doing. I am absolutely not defending the dickheads that vandalised property.
So onwards we march to the station. I saw plenty of people that wanted to go down side roads to get cars. They were met with the face of the Met in 2013. Helmets, snood things pulled up over their faces, no eye contact, no 'sorry, you'll have to go down two more streets and double back, it's safer for everyone in the long run' just blank stares.
So there you go. We have a little crew of herberts that we need to find and send on their way. Don't come up with rubbish about how they are the next generation of supporters. They will stop more people going. And they are the sort of scrote that will give it plenty when surrounded by their own but will be very scarce if any real situations develop. Worthless little pricks.
Anyway I'll write a calmer letter to CAFC copied to the Met, for waht good it will do.
Didn't go yesterday as my Palace mate let me down. Interesting posts by Lucky Red and BrentfordAddick plus Henners. Our little Herbert crew help get the passion going with their singing and enthusiasm but they may have crossed the line yesterday by ripping out seats and damaging the cars. Really looking forward to the Millwall game. LOL!
Rikofold gives an accurate overview - and there were enough OB standing around (doing nothing) by the barricade and the stadium wall to have provided a notional 'escort' along Sangley Road towards Norwood Hill and the 'aggro' would have been minimised, as the crowd was leaving fairly peacefully - until reaching the barricade. Perhaps megaphones have been discontinued? Did anyone hear anything on the stadium PA regarding crowd-management plans? There were further roadblock barricades in the High St and by the station to hinder anyone who didn't want to 'follow the crowd'.
As soon as I left the ground and saw the Berlin Wall they'd thrown up I knew the police were gonna fuck it up. Talk about upping the ante. Can't they control a crowd without building a fort?
I made my way to the front to ask why I was being physically prevented from going about my lawful business and to be fair the coppers I spoke to were pretty reasonable, although I did have to laugh at the suggestion that somehow it was to enhance my health and safety!
5 minutes pass and there's no trouble. The coppers at the front are laughing and joking and some fella is trying to get the number of a cracking looking WPC. All in all what you would call standard "banter". Then a load of robocops start coming down the road, the atmosphere changes, a surge comes through and before you know it the coppers are literally on their toes and proceeded to run backwards all the way to the station clearly shitting themselves. Batons being wielded, dogs randomly attacking people and why? Absolutely no idea why.
The crazy thing was, when they stopped running and pushing people and just let people make their own way nearer the station there was no hint of trouble and the atmosphere noticeably eased.
I actually felt sorry for those coppers at the front. They'd lost control, clearly had no idea what to do and were visibly scared. One got cut off from the rest and they were screaming at him to come back. Didn't go and help him, just screamed at him to run away with the rest of them. I helped him up and on his way and I think he really thought he was going to die - the fear in his eyes. Do they really have such a low view of football fans? Evidently they do.
For the record, no excuses for vandalism or other cowardly acts, but the old bill really do have some legitimate questions to answer about yesterday.
Anyone that was part of the heavy handed police presence after the game would have a different perspective on things.
I think it's a shame that all you people that weren't there and are now sat behind your keyboards trying to preach at us can't understand that we're not defending the vandalism but that is a separate point to the police "escort". Many people (including myself) ended up being pushed to the limit of patience being led down narrow roads, riot police and dogs at every corner, in the opposite direction to where we wanted to go, in what was the most extreme policing I have ever experienced at a Charlton match
Honestly, how some can say "well half a dozen people shouldn't have ripped seats out what do you expect..." - its like reading the Mail Online comments section. I'm glad a lot of you stayed at home otherwise we'd have even more moaning about standing up and Cantona songs...
Nobody likes losing especially not to them poxy muppets away, yes the old bill were wrong, the ground is shit the fans are wankers but smashing stuff up for a laugh or because you feel safe in numbers is out of order, think how youd feel if some muggy palace fan done it to you, or your family or someone you know.
I did warn you about the over the top policing we suffer at Selhurst. It's like this all the time for us.
You should see how we are welcomed at away matches by the plod and it's all down to our police liason officer who is erm not very well liked by the palace fan base.
I did warn you about the over the top policing we suffer at Selhurst. It's like this all the time for us.
You should see how we are welcomed at away matches by the plod and it's all down to our police liason officer who is erm not very well liked by the palace fan base.
Thought you'd promised not to come back?
Anyway, as your fans are on a par with "Leeds, Millwall and Cardiff" (to quote your earlier post) what do you expect?
Why do they allow the cars in the road directly around the ground anyway?
I'm pretty sure I accidentally bumped into a few wing mirrors myself yesterday purely down to the fact that there were so many people in a enclosed space that there was nowhere else to go. That WAS the police's fault - I just don't understand why they couldn't have let people make their way closer to the station and controlled it from there - people would understand being told "the train is full, give it 10 minutes" rather than "GET BACK! GET BACK!" with no explanation at all.
Have just sat and read this thread through from the start. Just a few thoughts.
I have never seen a police presence like that, at any game, in all the years I have been following Charlton. The steel wall, with CCTV cameras, was also a new one.
As with Millwall a couple of years ago, the policing decisions are all made days/weeks beforehand. Don't mistake that for intelligence though, they have no ability/authority/sense to adjust to situations on the day and the worst of that is the complete lack of respect to civil questions as to what is happening.
As has been mentioned, this is obviously not the first time they have done this, so Sangley Road should have been cleared of cars/vehicles.
I was fairly near the front, just outside the ground before the turn into Sangly. Have to say that I didn't notice anything that I would describe as a surge. After a little while, people did start to walk forward and I did suggest to those around me that we just do this slowly, edging forward.
Can't honestly say I heard any residents being abused. A large number were watching from the upstairs windows and some were filming on their phones. Closest to abuse was the girl at the upstairs window on the left hand side, who was subjected to the predictable "out for the lads" chant.
Is that as offensive as the resident who bared his arse as we finally got to the end and turned right? He was actually in the room with his mate, so maybe that wasn't aimed at us though and the boys were just getting friendly!!
I saw one lad run up and over one car, I also saw one idiot walking down the street with, I assume, a seat from the ground and I heard that a couple were seen keying cars and breaking mirrors. No excuses...you're morons whoever you are.
As we finally got to the crossroads at the top of the road to the station, the police seemed to be holding back a group of palace fans on the right. Police were filming all over the place, but mostly standing all over the road to make it as difficult as possible for people to walk into the station.
One bit of trouble on the train. The police were trying to herd as many fans as possible into a couple of carriages. Went to walk behind them to some fairly empty ones and was being blocked until a couple of little "One Directions" didn't take kindly to another getting on "their" train. The police dived in and pulled a couple of them off the train. Don't think there was a hair out of place and I honestly couldn't tell you if they were Charlton or palace fans. A couple of palace fans (wearing bobble hats, so I could tell) were sitting on train. No problems whatsoever on journey back.
Verdict: totally over the top police presence, no idea of how to adapt and too scared to disobey orders of those who would never be present on the actual day. Don't hold with the thought that they deserve respect for doing a difficult job. What they did yesterday was not a difficult job. Their lack of intelligence is shown in their inability to adapt. Most do a very good job on non-football days, but they obviously have a number who are employed just for days like this and being taken off the leash...after all, no-one will ever care about football fans being treated with contempt and violence will they!
I did warn you about the over the top policing we suffer at Selhurst. It's like this all the time for us.
You should see how we are welcomed at away matches by the plod and it's all down to our police liason officer who is erm not very well liked by the palace fan base.
Thought you'd promised not to come back?
Anyway, as your fans are on a par with "Leeds, Millwall and Cardiff" (to quote your earlier post) what do you expect?
Now go away for good.
Sorry, I lied. Still here. Though I am going now, and nice of you to keep an eye out for my posts.
What do I expect? Like you, I expect to be treated like a human being at football and not an animal. It's a disgrace that we (all of us) are treated like subhumans just because we like to watch football.
You might be happy to be herded around like cattle, but I'm not. It's a disgrace.
I am going now, so unless we get promoted or you relagated, see you next year anoraks!
As I said yesterday, I have worked along side the Police in riots, and have also have some knowledge of major incidents and how they are controlled.
Yesterday, they lost control of the situation because they over reacted. 95% of Charlton wanted to leave the shit hole and just go home. By blocking the road, tempers became raised, and even the most milded mannered of people became irate and the tactics of the Police (made worse by the poxy sign wishing us a safe trip home). They did not consider that a large number of us did not want to go to the train station, yet we were taken there, it took me 40 ish minutes to get back to my car that was parked 5 minutes from the ground in the other direction!
The Police complained about damage to the cars, yet what did they think would happen having 3000 people walk down a small road with parked cars on either side? Even if the idiots, cars would have still been damaged by shear weight on numbers brushing along side them accidently ( i was pushed into several by people just pushing past me).
If the Police wanted to control us, they had two choices, keep us inside the ground or simply escort us down the road, not hold us until we bacame an angry mob! It was really a simple operation made 100 times worse because they held us on that stupid line!
The point people are making is that its extremely easy to excuse imbecilic behaviour by blaming it on the dibble. Simple fact is that smashing wing mirrors off of cars owned by people who have fuck all to do with football and ripping seats out is pathetic. Using the ineffective and heavy-handed policing as an excuse is equally pathetic. It's the same old bollocks that fuels football violence "They come daahn aaahr manor last year and took the piss. Let's get 'em proper this time." Ad infinitum.
God I'm glad I didn't go. £32 to go to that shithole, go 1-0 up, lose, get treated like shit by the Police, and witness our own inbreds vandalising innocents' cars and property.
Read all through this thread, and it seems the Police messed it up big time, some vivid accounts - there seemed to have been some decent, and bemused coppers... but then the bunch that see you get pushed forward through no fault of your own and use the old "I told you to get back", when they see you can't, desperate to give you a whack/let a dog on you... have been in that situation before, nasty pieces of work. Treated like crap, completely over the top for being a football fan, no common sense or empathy. What's new?
To escort 3,000 down narrow streets with cars parked on both sides? Very well thought out, plod. What a joke. However, the inbred scum (who would probably melt in front of oppo fans) who were smashing wing mirrors and keying cars - You're a fucking embarrassment, no matter what age you are. It still would have happened if we'd won, though, based on other Palace v Charlton games I've attended.
One think I wondered about (apologies if mentioned elsewhere) is did the stringent under-18 ticket checks take place?
Does anyone know if the tactics were used for Brighton or Millwall?
It was a joke. Getting crushed in a surge to get onto the platform shouldn't be happening.
Even if there were no flares, seats pulled out etc we would have still been dealt with in the same way.
The real crime yesterday was my local Kebab house asking me for 1 quid for a dollop of coleslaw on my kebab. Mental!
No, the real crime was having coleslaw on a kebab.
On a chicken kebab mate. Chicken was looking dry as sand and no other sauces there looked appealing (or made within the last 10 years). Sometimes you gotta do a Ray Mears and improvise.
Comments
We got messages from him about twenty minutes later saying that about 40 people got thrown out because of trouble on the concourse and that they just kicked everyone in the near area out at once.
Anyone see anything before half time?
Ps It was funny outside Norwood Junction Station when the Police camera man was filming us and a fan stood right in front of him and filmed him.
Quote
As said. Really wanted to go yesterday, but with my run of luck I'd get nicked before I left Sydenham !
My perspective. 46, middle aged, middle class, dodgy leg which means I sometimes need a stick to walk, yesterday was one of those days. Out on the whistle, got to the kettle point just around the corner, in other words looking at the Belfast fence they have (anyone seen one of those before away?). After about ten minutes, around 20 of the little teenage scrotes you sometimes see started surging. It was obvious what they were going to do and I was trying to move to the side before it happened. We weren't that tightly packed so their momentum pushed a lot of people forward. I went flying, thanks to the two fellas who picked me up. I went into one of the front yards of the houses on the lefy. I'm sure the 5 year old that was in tears wil be looking forward to his next CAFC trip.
The police leaning against the wall of the ground and the fence saw this situation developing and did nothing. I'm not saying they should have waded in but some one to one words would have done the job, I feel.
Anyway, after the surge, we started walking. I was really surprised to see that there were parked cars down the road. If you are going to do this sort of operation you have to clear them. It's a long road and this would be tough on residents, but if the police can justify it then then this is what needs doing. I am absolutely not defending the dickheads that vandalised property.
So onwards we march to the station. I saw plenty of people that wanted to go down side roads to get cars. They were met with the face of the Met in 2013. Helmets, snood things pulled up over their faces, no eye contact, no 'sorry, you'll have to go down two more streets and double back, it's safer for everyone in the long run' just blank stares.
So there you go. We have a little crew of herberts that we need to find and send on their way. Don't come up with rubbish about how they are the next generation of supporters. They will stop more people going. And they are the sort of scrote that will give it plenty when surrounded by their own but will be very scarce if any real situations develop. Worthless little pricks.
Anyway I'll write a calmer letter to CAFC copied to the Met, for waht good it will do.
Interesting posts by Lucky Red and BrentfordAddick plus Henners. Our little Herbert crew help get the passion going with their singing and enthusiasm but they may have crossed the line yesterday by ripping out seats and damaging the cars.
Really looking forward to the Millwall game. LOL!
Tho the ones doing the surge were from brentfords post.
It was a joke. Getting crushed in a surge to get onto the platform shouldn't be happening.
Even if there were no flares, seats pulled out etc we would have still been dealt with in the same way.
The real crime yesterday was my local Kebab house asking me for 1 quid for a dollop of coleslaw on my kebab. Mental!
I made my way to the front to ask why I was being physically prevented from going about my lawful business and to be fair the coppers I spoke to were pretty reasonable, although I did have to laugh at the suggestion that somehow it was to enhance my health and safety!
5 minutes pass and there's no trouble. The coppers at the front are laughing and joking and some fella is trying to get the number of a cracking looking WPC. All in all what you would call standard "banter". Then a load of robocops start coming down the road, the atmosphere changes, a surge comes through and before you know it the coppers are literally on their toes and proceeded to run backwards all the way to the station clearly shitting themselves. Batons being wielded, dogs randomly attacking people and why? Absolutely no idea why.
The crazy thing was, when they stopped running and pushing people and just let people make their own way nearer the station there was no hint of trouble and the atmosphere noticeably eased.
I actually felt sorry for those coppers at the front. They'd lost control, clearly had no idea what to do and were visibly scared. One got cut off from the rest and they were screaming at him to come back. Didn't go and help him, just screamed at him to run away with the rest of them. I helped him up and on his way and I think he really thought he was going to die - the fear in his eyes. Do they really have such a low view of football fans? Evidently they do.
For the record, no excuses for vandalism or other cowardly acts, but the old bill really do have some legitimate questions to answer about yesterday.
You should see how we are welcomed at away matches by the plod and it's all down to our police liason officer who is erm not very well liked by the palace fan base.
Anyway, as your fans are on a par with "Leeds, Millwall and Cardiff" (to quote your earlier post) what do you expect?
Now go away for good.
I'm pretty sure I accidentally bumped into a few wing mirrors myself yesterday purely down to the fact that there were so many people in a enclosed space that there was nowhere else to go. That WAS the police's fault - I just don't understand why they couldn't have let people make their way closer to the station and controlled it from there - people would understand being told "the train is full, give it 10 minutes" rather than "GET BACK! GET BACK!" with no explanation at all.
I have never seen a police presence like that, at any game, in all the years I have been following Charlton. The steel wall, with CCTV cameras, was also a new one.
As with Millwall a couple of years ago, the policing decisions are all made days/weeks beforehand. Don't mistake that for intelligence though, they have no ability/authority/sense to adjust to situations on the day and the worst of that is the complete lack of respect to civil questions as to what is happening.
As has been mentioned, this is obviously not the first time they have done this, so Sangley Road should have been cleared of cars/vehicles.
I was fairly near the front, just outside the ground before the turn into Sangly. Have to say that I didn't notice anything that I would describe as a surge. After a little while, people did start to walk forward and I did suggest to those around me that we just do this slowly, edging forward.
Can't honestly say I heard any residents being abused. A large number were watching from the upstairs windows and some were filming on their phones. Closest to abuse was the girl at the upstairs window on the left hand side, who was subjected to the predictable "out for the lads" chant.
Is that as offensive as the resident who bared his arse as we finally got to the end and turned right? He was actually in the room with his mate, so maybe that wasn't aimed at us though and the boys were just getting friendly!!
I saw one lad run up and over one car, I also saw one idiot walking down the street with, I assume, a seat from the ground and I heard that a couple were seen keying cars and breaking mirrors. No excuses...you're morons whoever you are.
As we finally got to the crossroads at the top of the road to the station, the police seemed to be holding back a group of palace fans on the right. Police were filming all over the place, but mostly standing all over the road to make it as difficult as possible for people to walk into the station.
One bit of trouble on the train. The police were trying to herd as many fans as possible into a couple of carriages. Went to walk behind them to some fairly empty ones and was being blocked until a couple of little "One Directions" didn't take kindly to another getting on "their" train. The police dived in and pulled a couple of them off the train. Don't think there was a hair out of place and I honestly couldn't tell you if they were Charlton or palace fans. A couple of palace fans (wearing bobble hats, so I could tell) were sitting on train. No problems whatsoever on journey back.
Verdict: totally over the top police presence, no idea of how to adapt and too scared to disobey orders of those who would never be present on the actual day. Don't hold with the thought that they deserve respect for doing a difficult job. What they did yesterday was not a difficult job. Their lack of intelligence is shown in their inability to adapt. Most do a very good job on non-football days, but they obviously have a number who are employed just for days like this and being taken off the leash...after all, no-one will ever care about football fans being treated with contempt and violence will they!
What do I expect? Like you, I expect to be treated like a human being at football and not an animal. It's a disgrace that we (all of us) are treated like subhumans just because we like to watch football.
You might be happy to be herded around like cattle, but I'm not. It's a disgrace.
I am going now, so unless we get promoted or you relagated, see you next year anoraks!
Yesterday, they lost control of the situation because they over reacted. 95% of Charlton wanted to leave the shit hole and just go home. By blocking the road, tempers became raised, and even the most milded mannered of people became irate and the tactics of the Police (made worse by the poxy sign wishing us a safe trip home). They did not consider that a large number of us did not want to go to the train station, yet we were taken there, it took me 40 ish minutes to get back to my car that was parked 5 minutes from the ground in the other direction!
The Police complained about damage to the cars, yet what did they think would happen having 3000 people walk down a small road with parked cars on either side? Even if the idiots, cars would have still been damaged by shear weight on numbers brushing along side them accidently ( i was pushed into several by people just pushing past me).
If the Police wanted to control us, they had two choices, keep us inside the ground or simply escort us down the road, not hold us until we bacame an angry mob! It was really a simple operation made 100 times worse because they held us on that stupid line!
Read all through this thread, and it seems the Police messed it up big time, some vivid accounts - there seemed to have been some decent, and bemused coppers... but then the bunch that see you get pushed forward through no fault of your own and use the old "I told you to get back", when they see you can't, desperate to give you a whack/let a dog on you... have been in that situation before, nasty pieces of work. Treated like crap, completely over the top for being a football fan, no common sense or empathy. What's new?
To escort 3,000 down narrow streets with cars parked on both sides? Very well thought out, plod. What a joke. However, the inbred scum (who would probably melt in front of oppo fans) who were smashing wing mirrors and keying cars - You're a fucking embarrassment, no matter what age you are. It still would have happened if we'd won, though, based on other Palace v Charlton games I've attended.
One think I wondered about (apologies if mentioned elsewhere) is did the stringent under-18 ticket checks take place?
Yes, despite stubble , wrinkles , the receding hairline and ever expanding waistline i couldn't get away with it.