You make some good points but on the key fact you are totally wrong.
The police were NOT escorting fans back to the station.
If they had then there would not have been the flashpoint they created at the cordon.
The police blocked a narrow side road on a rise so that most fans could not see the road block. They gave no info on why or for how long the road would be blocked.
The parked cars were, unintentionally perhaps, part of the road block. They have not cleared the road as is done in Floyd Road.
Yet the Police complained on twitter last night that cars had been damaged AGAIN ie this has happened before. They KNEW it was likely to happen and yet they still messed up.
Individual officers paniced, one at least drew his baton, one dog bit an officer. There was no clear leadership or communication before, duuring or after the confrontations.
This is not excusing the vandalism and bad behaviour of some fans but they are not enployed and trained guardians of law and of ORDER.
The Police are but in this particular instance they failed to maintain order due to their own poor planning, poor management and poor decision making.
I respect the police, admire their courage and the job they do most of the time. I even went to the game with a former officer.
But because of the power and responsibilities we as a society give our Police I expect they behaviour to be better than it was yesterday.
Let's not pretend this was anything like the London Riots, Orgrave, Hillsborough or even plebgate but the Police got it wrong.
What I find funny is that half of you are slagging off our own fans for being idiots whilst also slagging off the police for pre-empting the presence of idiots.
Let's consider a few simple facts, no blaming anyone and no bias:
- There was a fair few squirmishes in September when we hosted the fixture.
- There is a history of violence pre-dating even then; the Sydenham train attacks and the planned fights that were due to take place that day
- We went to millwall and were actually trusted and treated really well; we weren't kept in at the end of the match and we were given a big allocation... and then we kicked off and ruined that.
- The police seem to be taking a keen interest in some of our younger elements.
Due to all these factors it was quite obvious that the game had to be handled with safety gloves; a history of violence and a rather active element of our support recently means this is just a fact.
Did the police handle it with safety gloves? Perhaps not; perhaps they handled it (quite literally! ) with fire retardant overalls!
Inside the ground the police were absolutely brilliant. I expected them to take out some of the ones with flares and smoke: but rather than provoking them and causing any issues - they just took photos. (Coincidentally; that little knobber from G Block who bangs on the metal was acting up for the cameras... That kid really is a bit special isn't he?)
However, it was perfectly clear that things had heated up before we even left the ground. Come on guys; there were ROWS of seats kicked to pieces - you don't think that was on CCTV? You don't think the officers outside would've been made aware of the mentality of the fans who were wrecking the place?
So you go to leave the ground and by now the police outside have probably been informed that part of the stand has been wrecked and vandalised, that theres a lot of drunks and a very lively element that appear quite aggressive.
What do you expect the police to do? Ask every single person "Are you gonna go out and be a bit of a cock? Or can we let you go your own way?"? No. Even if they did, you can bet your last penny that those who would go on their own way would be liable to get hurt or attacked by palace fans. ( the type that beat random people up on trains )
So they try and escort everyone to a train station; naturally somewhere that a lot of people will be heading too anyway. (Remember: at millwall it's not unheard of to actually be escorted to the station and put on the next train that pulls in... Regardless of where you want to go!)
Whilst they're escorting everyone to the train station - the ones that they were escorting for a reason act up; spreading their vandalism from CPFC property to random individuals; cars are smashed up, motorbikes damaged and gardens are vandalised. Some idiots try and create a surge, they even throw bin lids.
Unfortunately there's a fair few innocent people in that crowd; but those that are acting up are now causing safety issues for everyone - as well as committing criminal offences.
Understandably though, the innocent ones in the crowd get angry and annoyed - and the whole crowd gets hostile to the police and things escalate..
It's alright saying "Treat us like animals and we'll act like them"; but equally "Act like animals and we'll get treated like them".
All this petty bitching is pathetic. The police were overly cautious and seemingly prepared for the worst case scenario (IMHO not a bad thing) and we had an element of fans who acted up and ruined it for us all.
They were scum today! To think we pay for that! Terrible policing!
Exactly and where were they 5 years ago when our kids and women were attacked, nowhere. More police there today then were in Lewisham last year during the riots, cowards!
Oh, and as for this rather astute mind that has observed there was more police present today than in the riots in Lewisham; and thus has concluded that our police must be cowards...
Ermmm... Are you talking about the riots when practically the whole of London was kicking off and the met was so stretched we had officers from Manchester and Wales patrolling the streets? When a lot of police leave was cancelled? That might explain why there weren't so many officers in Lewisham back then.
Also, get a fucking grip of yourself - did you see the footage of the officers in Woolwich - one line of police officers against many many little thugs? Or the footage of Peckham? Brixton? Tottenham where it all began?
Sorry, dont let facts disturb your little illusion! Yeah, they were cowards weren't they...
[oh, and to pre-empt the people asking me if I'm a police officer; this may be a bit of a shocker: I'm 20 and -certainly- not a police officer.]
If this doesn't win Stig's post of the week it will be a travesty.
It wasn't the police throwing flares about. It wasn't the police wrecking the toilets. It wasn't the police kicking the crap out of seats. It wasn't the police damaging residents vehicles. It wasn't the police throwing stuff around in the crowd.
I wasn't there yesterday, before anyone asks, and it sounds as if the decision taken by the police added greatly to what was developing and they should be accountable for that.
C'mon though, we've had enough discussions of incidents on here in the last 18 months about the changing nature of (some of) our "fans" to acknowledge that we have a growing problem that we need to address. All of us need to work together, the club, supporters and the police to send a clear message that if you think it's acceptable to behave like that then you're not welcome at our club.
I also hope for the sake of Len's blood pressure he avoids some of the macho bullshit that's been posted in here since the game...
I'll add that the Police were tweeting during the game about arrests that they had made for possesion of flares.
They did go in and make at least one arrest during the game that I saw.
The stewarding inside was also very poor and reactive.
At 2.45 the stewards attempted to force fans to sit in designated seats. This was hours after opening the gates and was too little too late, iMHO, to stop the "rowdy" fans congregating near the back.
It was pointless as fans just jumped over the wall into the top section.
Again you either make people sit in their own seats from the start or just let people sit/stand where they want. What you don't and in practical terms can't do is try to do that just as the bulk of fans reach the ground.
Reactive, poorly thought out and poorly executed just as with the Police outside.
100% in agreement with everything Henry stated. Can't understand why the police set up the road block where they did. I tried to discuss the situation with many officers and none of them knew why it was organised how it was, in my opinion the way the blockade was set up to guaranteed confrontation, if they had to hold people back then the blockade should have been positioned where all could have seen it.
Athletico your right about people smashing up peoples cars and gardens but low stock housing, must be 3 hundred grand a pop.
Most have been converted into flats. A mate of mine (non-palace) had his car mirrors broken and a window smashed. Been told by the OB to talk to palace on monday morning, though not sure if they can do much, are CAFC likely to be charged for the damage to the stadium and outside ? No one seems to know.
Anyone that was part of the heavy handed police presence after the game would have a different perspective on things.
I think it's a shame that all you people that weren't there and are now sat behind your keyboards trying to preach at us can't understand that we're not defending the vandalism but that is a separate point to the police "escort". Many people (including myself) ended up being pushed to the limit of patience being led down narrow roads, riot police and dogs at every corner, in the opposite direction to where we wanted to go, in what was the most extreme policing I have ever experienced at a Charlton match
Honestly, how some can say "well half a dozen people shouldn't have ripped seats out what do you expect..." - its like reading the Mail Online comments section. I'm glad a lot of you stayed at home otherwise we'd have even more moaning about standing up and Cantona songs...
The point people are making is that its extremely easy to excuse imbecilic behaviour by blaming it on the dibble. Simple fact is that smashing wing mirrors off of cars owned by people who have fuck all to do with football and ripping seats out is pathetic. Using the ineffective and heavy-handed policing as an excuse is equally pathetic. It's the same old bollocks that fuels football violence "They come daahn aaahr manor last year and took the piss. Let's get 'em proper this time." Ad infinitum.
Why do people always blame police. Idiot kids who were the problem. Behaviour from our fans was an utter embarrassment after the game.
What did they do?
Charged the police lines, smashed the wing mirrors off prob about 100 cars, jumped on top of one or two. The roads round the ground have low stock housing, people in them will not be minted and now have a bill to pay cause some nob of a kid cannot take losing and being kept back for an hour or so. Like I have said before, police got it wrong but there is no excuse for mindless vandalism. It was the minority, but a pretty sizeable one
I'm not defending any of that behaviour but none of it - NONE of it - would have happened if the police hadn't decided to treat us like rioters and kettle us in like that. Or even if they'd told us what was happening.
I was right at the front and we didn't charge quite as has been said, the push came from behind but of course old bill being old bill took it out on those at the front. How are those being pushed from behind supposed to stop moving forward, how is setting the dogs on them going to help?
A police escort was the most that was needed. And they could have simply told us to wait 10 minutes and we'd be on our way. Instead they treated us all as hooligans, created a problem that didn't even exist and then got heavy handed when people hit passed off with waiting or bring forced in a direction away from their car. Or simply hot moved forward because people behind them pushed forward.
And if you're going to force 3000 people down a narrow road, there will be damage to cars, wilful or otherwise.
Stupid, unnecessary and disproportionate. Describes the policing first I'm afraid.
Anyone that was part of the heavy handed police presence after the game would have a different perspective on things.
I think it's a shame that all you people that weren't there and are now sat behind your keyboards trying to preach at us can't understand that we're not defending the vandalism but that is a separate point to the police "escort". Many people (including myself) ended up being pushed to the limit of patience being led down narrow roads, riot police and dogs at every corner, in the opposite direction to where we wanted to go, in what was the most extreme policing I have ever experienced at a Charlton match
Honestly, how some can say "well half a dozen people shouldn't have ripped seats out what do you expect..." - its like reading the Mail Online comments section. I'm glad a lot of you stayed at home otherwise we'd have even more moaning about standing up and Cantona songs...
Not sure if that's aimed at me specifically. I think I acknowledged that poor policing seems to be an element of what happened didn't I?
FWIW I've done plenty of aways and been subject to very heavy policing, as have us all, which has pee'd me off too. But didn't feel the need to take my frustration out on someones car as some did yesterday.
There have also been plenty of posts making light of the vandalism too so some people are 'defending' it.
My point is that this is the latest in a series of unpleasant events at our matches and we need to sort it out or our tradtional fan base is going to find something else to do aren't they?
And if it's only half a dozen people at it as you state then it should be easy to get them out shouldn't it..?
LuckyReds is spot on. Regardless of police (and stewards) incompetence, there was no excuse for some of the fans' moronic behaviour. People are responsible for their own behaviour. Too many anti-social morons.
Look - no point bitching about the plod on here. If you've got complaints do something that might go someway towards stopping it from happening again - make an official complaint to the plod. Frankly the Met's incompetence knows no bounds. Here's the information you need - content.met.police.uk/Article/Complaints-process/1400010861919/1400010861919 it's only a phone call to 101. The more that do it the better. What's to lose?
The seats and the toilets were not as a result of the kettling, they were not a result of stupid policing ... they were wanton acts of vandalism and just maybe the Police radioed ahead to those officers outside the ground and that had some influence on the policing approach outside the ground.
What I find funny is that half of you are slagging off our own fans for being idiots whilst also slagging off the police for pre-empting the presence of idiots.
Let's consider a few simple facts, no blaming anyone and no bias:
- There was a fair few squirmishes in September when we hosted the fixture.
- There is a history of violence pre-dating even then; the Sydenham train attacks and the planned fights that were due to take place that day
- We went to millwall and were actually trusted and treated really well; we weren't kept in at the end of the match and we were given a big allocation... and then we kicked off and ruined that.
- The police seem to be taking a keen interest in some of our younger elements.
Due to all these factors it was quite obvious that the game had to be handled with safety gloves; a history of violence and a rather active element of our support recently means this is just a fact.
Did the police handle it with safety gloves? Perhaps not; perhaps they handled it (quite literally! ) with fire retardant overalls!
Inside the ground the police were absolutely brilliant. I expected them to take out some of the ones with flares and smoke: but rather than provoking them and causing any issues - they just took photos. (Coincidentally; that little knobber from G Block who bangs on the metal was acting up for the cameras... That kid really is a bit special isn't he?)
However, it was perfectly clear that things had heated up before we even left the ground. Come on guys; there were ROWS of seats kicked to pieces - you don't think that was on CCTV? You don't think the officers outside would've been made aware of the mentality of the fans who were wrecking the place?
So you go to leave the ground and by now the police outside have probably been informed that part of the stand has been wrecked and vandalised, that theres a lot of drunks and a very lively element that appear quite aggressive.
What do you expect the police to do? Ask every single person "Are you gonna go out and be a bit of a cock? Or can we let you go your own way?"? No. Even if they did, you can bet your last penny that those who would go on their own way would be liable to get hurt or attacked by palace fans. ( the type that beat random people up on trains )
So they try and escort everyone to a train station; naturally somewhere that a lot of people will be heading too anyway. (Remember: at millwall it's not unheard of to actually be escorted to the station and put on the next train that pulls in... Regardless of where you want to go!)
Whilst they're escorting everyone to the train station - the ones that they were escorting for a reason act up; spreading their vandalism from CPFC property to random individuals; cars are smashed up, motorbikes damaged and gardens are vandalised. Some idiots try and create a surge, they even throw bin lids.
Unfortunately there's a fair few innocent people in that crowd; but those that are acting up are now causing safety issues for everyone - as well as committing criminal offences.
Understandably though, the innocent ones in the crowd get angry and annoyed - and the whole crowd gets hostile to the police and things escalate..
It's alright saying "Treat us like animals and we'll act like them"; but equally "Act like animals and we'll get treated like them".
All this petty bitching is pathetic. The police were overly cautious and seemingly prepared for the worst case scenario (IMHO not a bad thing) and we had an element of fans who acted up and ruined it for us all.
They were scum today! To think we pay for that! Terrible policing!
Exactly and where were they 5 years ago when our kids and women were attacked, nowhere. More police there today then were in Lewisham last year during the riots, cowards!
Oh, and as for this rather astute mind that has observed there was more police present today than in the riots in Lewisham; and thus has concluded that our police must be cowards...
Ermmm... Are you talking about the riots when practically the whole of London was kicking off and the met was so stretched we had officers from Manchester and Wales patrolling the streets? When a lot of police leave was cancelled? That might explain why there weren't so many officers in Lewisham back then.
Also, get a fucking grip of yourself - did you see the footage of the officers in Woolwich - one line of police officers against many many little thugs? Or the footage of Peckham? Brixton? Tottenham where it all began?
Sorry, dont let facts disturb your little illusion! Yeah, they were cowards weren't they...
[oh, and to pre-empt the people asking me if I'm a police officer; this may be a bit of a shocker: I'm 20 and -certainly- not a police officer.]
Even if all that was true, they kettled in 3000 to handle the actions of a handful of people and avoided what exactly? Scuffles? No. Damage to property? No.
And even if that action was necessary, you don't think a little communication might have gone a long way to quelling the discontent?
I was around in the 80s when there was a real problem and have never seen anything quite like yesterday. Shame you choose to ridicule rather than get the real point bring made about the level of policing and their nonsensical decision making.
Very few if those coppers on the front line quite seemed to know why it was all so necessary. To be fair to them they were following orders and most weren't being arseholes. They were victims of ludicrous decision making too.
The seats and the toilets were not as a result of the kettling, they were not a result of stupid policing ... they were wanton acts of vandalism and just maybe the Police radioed ahead to those officers outside the ground and that had some influence on the policing approach outside the ground.
Action probably undertaken by 10-20 people. For which the other 2980 deserve to be kettled, hit with batons, have police dogs set on them and be taken on a route march down a narrow residential side street in totally the opposite direction to where they were parked?.
All the while the people organising this route march stand and shrug their shoulders when asked why it was happening and when they will be letting people head in the direction they need to.
The seats and the toilets were not as a result of the kettling, they were not a result of stupid policing ... they were wanton acts of vandalism and just maybe the Police radioed ahead to those officers outside the ground and that had some influence on the policing approach outside the ground.
I doubt that very much. The "norwood wall" must have been used before.
The police themselves have tweeted that cars have been injured before.
The literally hundreds of cops, dogs and vans on the route were not organised at the last minutes in reaction to a broken seat or a flare.
The police had planned what happened and they got it wrong, wrong. Wrong.
No excuse being made by me for the vandalism but also not going to excuse the police either.
The seats and the toilets were not as a result of the kettling, they were not a result of stupid policing ... they were wanton acts of vandalism and just maybe the Police radioed ahead to those officers outside the ground and that had some influence on the policing approach outside the ground.
The vandalism inside the ground did not influence the police outside as plod had planned this all along before the match. The idiots inside the ground need to support another team. The police need to go back to the drawing board.
Luckyreds, you made some good points but as Henry said we were not escorted to the station, we were forced there and if you had the nerve to talk to plod they were either very aggressive to you or simply blanked you. This was not acceptable, after all they are public servants but they simply inflamed the situation. I would be seriously pissed if I was a resident along that road as I believe the police would be negligent for all damage to property.
On another note, I went around to the team coach after the game and a few palace fans were calling us all c**ts and w*****s and guess what? Yep, plod done nothing. All of this in front of small kids too. By the way, I asked plod what they were going to do and I got no answer!!
I was walking very peacefully incidentally, but because I was right at the front I got shoved about by OB and more than once had a close call with the dogs. All this "I told you to wait there" shit when a swell of 3k are moving you forward? Ffs
Funny, when I eventually managed to get ahead of the coppers I walked peacefully to my car without hint of vandalism or trouble. I must be an exception for a Charlton fan, given the stern defence of the police from the absent keyboard warriors.
Like I've said earlier on this thread,the police's objective today was to keep opposing fans apart and they did that
What I think we can be sure of, is the single line of police down floyd road after big home games will be a thing of the past. Expect a much tougher police operation when we play millwall in march and when/if we play palace next year
Hands up who got hit by a baton? Who got bit by a police dog? I was at the very front of the cordon, talking to the OB and he explained to me that it was for safety reasons getting into the station, and I was watching people from across the road pushing each other onto the platform. There was 1 cozza that seemed like he was fighting for his country but in general I felt for some of the OB there yesterday, who were decent fellas and the one who got on the train with us had to go straight from there to another venue (not sure what it was) to do it all over again. Can you honestly put yourself in their position, trying to get 3000 upset, angry, drunk, tiddly, people safely away from a football match & onto a train, without any incidents. So some people were put out for an extra 30-40 mins of their lives, you all got home in the end.
What I find funny is that half of you are slagging off our own fans for being idiots whilst also slagging off the police for pre-empting the presence of idiots.
Let's consider a few simple facts, no blaming anyone and no bias:
- There was a fair few squirmishes in September when we hosted the fixture.
- There is a history of violence pre-dating even then; the Sydenham train attacks and the planned fights that were due to take place that day
- We went to millwall and were actually trusted and treated really well; we weren't kept in at the end of the match and we were given a big allocation... and then we kicked off and ruined that.
- The police seem to be taking a keen interest in some of our younger elements.
Due to all these factors it was quite obvious that the game had to be handled with safety gloves; a history of violence and a rather active element of our support recently means this is just a fact.
Did the police handle it with safety gloves? Perhaps not; perhaps they handled it (quite literally! ) with fire retardant overalls!
Inside the ground the police were absolutely brilliant. I expected them to take out some of the ones with flares and smoke: but rather than provoking them and causing any issues - they just took photos. (Coincidentally; that little knobber from G Block who bangs on the metal was acting up for the cameras... That kid really is a bit special isn't he?)
However, it was perfectly clear that things had heated up before we even left the ground. Come on guys; there were ROWS of seats kicked to pieces - you don't think that was on CCTV? You don't think the officers outside would've been made aware of the mentality of the fans who were wrecking the place?
So you go to leave the ground and by now the police outside have probably been informed that part of the stand has been wrecked and vandalised, that theres a lot of drunks and a very lively element that appear quite aggressive.
What do you expect the police to do? Ask every single person "Are you gonna go out and be a bit of a cock? Or can we let you go your own way?"? No. Even if they did, you can bet your last penny that those who would go on their own way would be liable to get hurt or attacked by palace fans. ( the type that beat random people up on trains )
So they try and escort everyone to a train station; naturally somewhere that a lot of people will be heading too anyway. (Remember: at millwall it's not unheard of to actually be escorted to the station and put on the next train that pulls in... Regardless of where you want to go!)
Whilst they're escorting everyone to the train station - the ones that they were escorting for a reason act up; spreading their vandalism from CPFC property to random individuals; cars are smashed up, motorbikes damaged and gardens are vandalised. Some idiots try and create a surge, they even throw bin lids.
Unfortunately there's a fair few innocent people in that crowd; but those that are acting up are now causing safety issues for everyone - as well as committing criminal offences.
Understandably though, the innocent ones in the crowd get angry and annoyed - and the whole crowd gets hostile to the police and things escalate..
It's alright saying "Treat us like animals and we'll act like them"; but equally "Act like animals and we'll get treated like them".
All this petty bitching is pathetic. The police were overly cautious and seemingly prepared for the worst case scenario (IMHO not a bad thing) and we had an element of fans who acted up and ruined it for us all.
They were scum today! To think we pay for that! Terrible policing!
Exactly and where were they 5 years ago when our kids and women were attacked, nowhere. More police there today then were in Lewisham last year during the riots, cowards!
Oh, and as for this rather astute mind that has observed there was more police present today than in the riots in Lewisham; and thus has concluded that our police must be cowards...
Ermmm... Are you talking about the riots when practically the whole of London was kicking off and the met was so stretched we had officers from Manchester and Wales patrolling the streets? When a lot of police leave was cancelled? That might explain why there weren't so many officers in Lewisham back then.
Also, get a fucking grip of yourself - did you see the footage of the officers in Woolwich - one line of police officers against many many little thugs? Or the footage of Peckham? Brixton? Tottenham where it all began?
Sorry, dont let facts disturb your little illusion! Yeah, they were cowards weren't they...
[oh, and to pre-empt the people asking me if I'm a police officer; this may be a bit of a shocker: I'm 20 and -certainly- not a police officer.]
As it said early the main problem was no one really understood what was going on. Over the PA were explaining that couldn't go down certain roads so wasn't expecting to be kept in. Was at the very back of it because were was in the ground and you couldn't see what was going on from up the road. On the way back you had some police who were desperate for anyone who wasn't behaving the way they deemed acceptable which was walking to slow to other things. I thought was way over the top and why did every bend of road need a police dog on. Saw a lot of cars been damaged on the way back, every window there were people watching from and most with cameras they might catch some of the people who were smashing stuff up. If this has happened before why do they still leave their cars down there. Why don't the police let them know that this couldn't happen again when derby matches are being played ?
I just want to make a simple point that I drove yesterday in order to avoid the macho dullheads who have latched onto us. The police action put me straight into a narrow residential road with these idiots along side some excitable and scared coppers and heading inthe opposite direction to where I wanted to go. Fom what I've read here the dullheads would have loved what went on yesterday as they want Charlton to have a reputation as tasty. The decent suppoters won't be puting themselves through that again.
I just want to make a simple point that I drove yesterday in order to avoid the macho dullheads who have latched onto us. The police action put me straight into a narrow residential road with these idiots along side some excitable and scared coppers and heading inthe opposite direction to where I wanted to go. Fom what I've read here the dullheads would have loved what went on yesterday as they want Charlton to have a reputation as tasty. The decent suppoters won't be puting themselves through that again.
Sorry that's bollocks. Im a decent supporter and you can read my views about the mugs that damaged peoples cars but i will be going again.
Save a handful of complete idiots our support was top drawer yesterday and the police didnt help things.
I usually go to football with my daughter but she didn't want to go to Palace because she knew there would be trouble. I've been going to football to all london clubs since the sixties and the police action yesterday was so unnecessary, they got it wrong. If stupid men from opposing teams want to fight let them why do us fans have to get caught up in it all.
Ridiculous policing tactitics, most police were fine and fair , some were complete jobsworths, the problem is those that just want to go and watch a game of football end up with those who want to cause trouble and have a ruck.
I'm not going to bother with going to Palace or Millwall anymore, having a 45 minute diversioned walk back to my car with a dodgy knee just ain't worth it.
I wish some people would just grow up instead of dragging our club through the mud , walking down the street with my son hearing wing mirrors being pulled off of cars, and local residents being abused verbally, cowering behind their curtains, wondering what the hell is going on outside makes me feel ashamed to support this club, sod going to any more away games this season, not worth the hassle, happy now?
Comments
You make some good points but on the key fact you are totally wrong.
The police were NOT escorting fans back to the station.
If they had then there would not have been the flashpoint they created at the cordon.
The police blocked a narrow side road on a rise so that most fans could not see the road block. They gave no info on why or for how long the road would be blocked.
The parked cars were, unintentionally perhaps, part of the road block. They have not cleared the road as is done in Floyd Road.
Yet the Police complained on twitter last night that cars had been damaged AGAIN ie this has happened before. They KNEW it was likely to happen and yet they still messed up.
Individual officers paniced, one at least drew his baton, one dog bit an officer. There was no clear leadership or communication before, duuring or after the confrontations.
This is not excusing the vandalism and bad behaviour of some fans but they are not enployed and trained guardians of law and of ORDER.
The Police are but in this particular instance they failed to maintain order due to their own poor planning, poor management and poor decision making.
I respect the police, admire their courage and the job they do most of the time. I even went to the game with a former officer.
But because of the power and responsibilities we as a society give our Police I expect they behaviour to be better than it was yesterday.
Let's not pretend this was anything like the London Riots, Orgrave, Hillsborough or even plebgate but the Police got it wrong.
Knew you was there.....
It wasn't the police throwing flares about. It wasn't the police wrecking the toilets. It wasn't the police kicking the crap out of seats. It wasn't the police damaging residents vehicles. It wasn't the police throwing stuff around in the crowd.
I wasn't there yesterday, before anyone asks, and it sounds as if the decision taken by the police added greatly to what was developing and they should be accountable for that.
C'mon though, we've had enough discussions of incidents on here in the last 18 months about the changing nature of (some of) our "fans" to acknowledge that we have a growing problem that we need to address. All of us need to work together, the club, supporters and the police to send a clear message that if you think it's acceptable to behave like that then you're not welcome at our club.
I also hope for the sake of Len's blood pressure he avoids some of the macho bullshit that's been posted in here since the game...
They did go in and make at least one arrest during the game that I saw.
The stewarding inside was also very poor and reactive.
At 2.45 the stewards attempted to force fans to sit in designated seats. This was hours after opening the gates and was too little too late, iMHO, to stop the "rowdy" fans congregating near the back.
It was pointless as fans just jumped over the wall into the top section.
Again you either make people sit in their own seats from the start or just let people sit/stand where they want. What you don't and in practical terms can't do is try to do that just as the bulk of fans reach the ground.
Reactive, poorly thought out and poorly executed just as with the Police outside.
A mate of mine (non-palace) had his car mirrors broken and a window smashed.
Been told by the OB to talk to palace on monday morning, though not sure if they can do much, are CAFC likely to be charged for the damage to the stadium and outside ? No one seems to know.
I think it's a shame that all you people that weren't there and are now sat behind your keyboards trying to preach at us can't understand that we're not defending the vandalism but that is a separate point to the police "escort". Many people (including myself) ended up being pushed to the limit of patience being led down narrow roads, riot police and dogs at every corner, in the opposite direction to where we wanted to go, in what was the most extreme policing I have ever experienced at a Charlton match
Honestly, how some can say "well half a dozen people shouldn't have ripped seats out what do you expect..." - its like reading the Mail Online comments section. I'm glad a lot of you stayed at home otherwise we'd have even more moaning about standing up and Cantona songs...
I was right at the front and we didn't charge quite as has been said, the push came from behind but of course old bill being old bill took it out on those at the front. How are those being pushed from behind supposed to stop moving forward, how is setting the dogs on them going to help?
A police escort was the most that was needed. And they could have simply told us to wait 10 minutes and we'd be on our way. Instead they treated us all as hooligans, created a problem that didn't even exist and then got heavy handed when people hit passed off with waiting or bring forced in a direction away from their car. Or simply hot moved forward because people behind them pushed forward.
And if you're going to force 3000 people down a narrow road, there will be damage to cars, wilful or otherwise.
Stupid, unnecessary and disproportionate. Describes the policing first I'm afraid.
FWIW I've done plenty of aways and been subject to very heavy policing, as have us all, which has pee'd me off too. But didn't feel the need to take my frustration out on someones car as some did yesterday.
There have also been plenty of posts making light of the vandalism too so some people are 'defending' it.
My point is that this is the latest in a series of unpleasant events at our matches and we need to sort it out or our tradtional fan base is going to find something else to do aren't they?
And if it's only half a dozen people at it as you state then it should be easy to get them out shouldn't it..?
Sermon over.
Here's the information you need - content.met.police.uk/Article/Complaints-process/1400010861919/1400010861919 it's only a phone call to 101.
The more that do it the better. What's to lose?
And even if that action was necessary, you don't think a little communication might have gone a long way to quelling the discontent?
I was around in the 80s when there was a real problem and have never seen anything quite like yesterday. Shame you choose to ridicule rather than get the real point bring made about the level of policing and their nonsensical decision making.
Very few if those coppers on the front line quite seemed to know why it was all so necessary. To be fair to them they were following orders and most weren't being arseholes. They were victims of ludicrous decision making too.
All the while the people organising this route march stand and shrug their shoulders when asked why it was happening and when they will be letting people head in the direction they need to.
The police themselves have tweeted that cars have been injured before.
The literally hundreds of cops, dogs and vans on the route were not organised at the last minutes in reaction to a broken seat or a flare.
The police had planned what happened and they got it wrong, wrong. Wrong.
No excuse being made by me for the vandalism but also not going to excuse the police either.
Who guards the guardians?
Luckyreds, you made some good points but as Henry said we were not escorted to the station, we were forced there and if you had the nerve to talk to plod they were either very aggressive to you or simply blanked you. This was not acceptable, after all they are public servants but they simply inflamed the situation. I would be seriously pissed if I was a resident along that road as I believe the police would be negligent for all damage to property.
On another note, I went around to the team coach after the game and a few palace fans were calling us all c**ts and w*****s and guess what? Yep, plod done nothing. All of this in front of small kids too. By the way, I asked plod what they were going to do and I got no answer!!
I lost a lot of respect for plod yesterday.
They should have kept us in the half hour wait then kept a presence whilst we found our own way.
Funny, when I eventually managed to get ahead of the coppers I walked peacefully to my car without hint of vandalism or trouble. I must be an exception for a Charlton fan, given the stern defence of the police from the absent keyboard warriors.
What I think we can be sure of, is the single line of police down floyd road after big home games will be a thing of the past. Expect a much tougher police operation when we play millwall in march and when/if we play palace next year
Can you honestly put yourself in their position, trying to get 3000 upset, angry,
drunk, tiddly, people safely away from a football match & onto a train, without any incidents. So some people were put out for an extra 30-40 mins of their lives, you all got home in the end.On the way back you had some police who were desperate for anyone who wasn't behaving the way they deemed acceptable which was walking to slow to other things. I thought was way over the top and why did every bend of road need a police dog on.
Saw a lot of cars been damaged on the way back, every window there were people watching from and most with cameras they might catch some of the people who were smashing stuff up. If this has happened before why do they still leave their cars down there. Why don't the police let them know that this couldn't happen again when derby matches are being played ?
Save a handful of complete idiots our support was top drawer yesterday and the police didnt help things.
I'm not going to bother with going to Palace or Millwall anymore, having a 45 minute diversioned walk back to my car with a dodgy knee just ain't worth it.
I wish some people would just grow up instead of dragging our club through the mud , walking down the street with my son hearing wing mirrors being pulled off of cars, and local residents being abused verbally, cowering behind their curtains, wondering what the hell is going on outside makes me feel ashamed to support this club, sod going to any more away games this season, not worth the hassle, happy now?