Surely the point is that, even if Pochettino is a better manager than Adkins who does take Southampton 'to the next level', the way Cortese has treated Adkins, and the fans he knows were fully behind him, is appalling.
At least Adkins won't have to worry about finding another job.
Completely different ethos in English football. Fans attitudes from the parents watching their kids up to the regulars will have to change their attitude and expectations. Can't see that happening as most English football fans (and parents) are simple folk (ahem) and just care about their own immediate short term club interests and moaning in the pub about the situation of football..
I am a huge fan of what the German FA did for their football and the set up there and I wish ours was the same and that our FA were castrated in public as half time entertainment along with the EPL and Sky officials. But there is also the flip side that the Bundesliga doesn't sell anywhere near as well as the EPL as it isn't seen as as exciting. There's also not a sense of watching different teams that you get watching the EPL and that I like. Bundesliga teams are mostly basically better/worse clones of each other. The English set up/ethos does seem to allow for more diversity than others.
How long have we been saying that if we could only take the English work rate, commitment and speed and add it to the technical ability of the 'better' countries we would be unbeatable. Has never come close to happening despite the FA spending fortunes on trendy foreign managers (one inparticular) and an apparent policy amongst certain teams to only hire non English managers. . Also if the German football system produces such great technical national team players why are so many of the national team not actually German and are nationalised foreigners? The same reason why Belgium is doing so well at the moment (but to a much lesser extent). And before anyone says I'm being xenophobic or something stupid, I don't have a problem with it, I would love to have seen Di Canio in an England shirt! I'm just pointing out there's a little more to the German situation than just changing the set up. The fans attitude and the greed of the powers that be have to change, and that just isn't going to happen.
GGA, would you be happy if Powell as replaced next week with a more 'continental' manager?
So not read my posts? as once again i have never said we need to replace all english managers.
To clarify SCP is one of the modern english managers, that has the potential to change things for the better, him and Pochettino have a few similarities in style of management.
GGA I see where you are coming from, and have a lot of sympathy for your general point that we must not be insular, and should learn from other countries. But I don't think it's right to assume that a few foreign managers on their own can fix English football, because the problems go deeper than that.
The Germans in 2000 realized that their game was in deep shit. They were struggling in the international tournaments and had been beaten 5-1 at home by England. But they didn't obsess about it being England. They took a good long look at themselves and began a 10 year root and branch reform of German football. It involved mandatory academies at every club, a huge increase in the number of qualified coaches ( I think now they have 8 times as many as we have) and ensuring that the TV money was fairly shared out among clubs in the top two divisions. Nobody worried about the nationality of the managers. They were German then, and they are German today, but look at German football, and the number of terrifyingly good young players its producing. Not to mention the Bundesliga crowds.
Now my point is that this hasn't happened here and it won't, for this reason. The whole initiative was led by the DFB, the German equivalent of the FA. that won't and can't happen here because the FA surrendered .leadership of the game back in 1990 to the Premier League, which looks after the interests of its members, and mainly the top 6-7. So a few foreign managers isn't going to change the whole of English football. Especially one who finished bottom of La Liga and can't speak a word of English.
I tried to find some evidence to back up this particular point and whilst you seem to be right about Germany, how do you explain Spain's dominance when the share of TV money is such:
Does that mean it's more about the quantity and quality of coaching at grassroots level? Have the Germans simply got lucky with a golden generation of stars?
GGA I see where you are coming from, and have a lot of sympathy for your general point that we must not be insular, and should learn from other countries. But I don't think it's right to assume that a few foreign managers on their own can fix English football, because the problems go deeper than that.
The Germans in 2000 realized that their game was in deep shit. They were struggling in the international tournaments and had been beaten 5-1 at home by England. But they didn't obsess about it being England. They took a good long look at themselves and began a 10 year root and branch reform of German football. It involved mandatory academies at every club, a huge increase in the number of qualified coaches ( I think now they have 8 times as many as we have) and ensuring that the TV money was fairly shared out among clubs in the top two divisions. Nobody worried about the nationality of the managers. They were German then, and they are German today, but look at German football, and the number of terrifyingly good young players its producing. Not to mention the Bundesliga crowds.
Now my point is that this hasn't happened here and it won't, for this reason. The whole initiative was led by the DFB, the German equivalent of the FA. that won't and can't happen here because the FA surrendered .leadership of the game back in 1990 to the Premier League, which looks after the interests of its members, and mainly the top 6-7. So a few foreign managers isn't going to change the whole of English football. Especially one who finished bottom of La Liga and can't speak a word of English.
I tried to find some evidence to back up this particular point and whilst you seem to be right about Germany, how do you explain Spain's dominance when the share of TV money is such:
Does that mean it's more about the quantity and quality of coaching at grassroots level? Have the Germans simply got lucky with a golden generation of stars?
good question (and good graphic too, thanks for that). I don't think I have an answer, or even an educated guess, regarding Spain. The only thing I'd say is that the Spanish could just as easily have got lucky too. But maybe some others have a closer knowledge of the Spain phenomenon. As I understand it, the feeling is that Spain are finally realising their potential as a national team that has always been there, but somehow not delivered, whereas the Germans really felt they were on the way down, and had to do something. Which they did.
Re the TV money, the story it doesn't tell us is, what happens in the second league of each country. Thats where the German model would look more impressive by comparison.
Bloke on 606 last night slamming Soton for their decision said: (his words) ".... that they should look at Charlton, a classic example of a club thinking they were bigger and better than they actually were and when they sacked Alan Curbishley it all went wrong for them...."
All you need to do is go watch kids football in this country to see what the problem is. Parents and coaches screaming and shouting at kids focused on winning, getting stuck in blah, blah, blah. Should be all about passing, control, and touch. Lack of knowledgable coaches at youth level, trouble is everyone thinks they are.
Back to the thread, Adkins has been poorly treated. If they'd decided to bring in a proven foreign manager that might be slightly understandable, although still very unfair, but they haven't and it's poor. As for old fashioned english managers, not sure who would be in that bracket in the PL.
Bloke on 606 last night slamming Soton for their decision said: (his words) ".... that they should look at Charlton, a classic example of a club thinking they were bigger and better than they actually were and when they sacked Alan Curbishley it all went wrong for them...."
Tool.
So irritating that a lot of people think that all Charlton fans wanted Curbishley out so we could 'push on'. Indeed, there were quite a few who secretly did. I heard one of the 606 pundits (Mark Chapman I think), referring to it as the "Charlton syndrome" last week.
Bloke on 606 last night slamming Soton for their decision said: (his words) ".... that they should look at Charlton, a classic example of a club thinking they were bigger and better than they actually were and when they sacked Alan Curbishley it all went wrong for them...."
Tool.
So irritating that a lot of people think that all Charlton fans wanted Curbishley out so we could 'push on'. Indeed, there were quite a few who secretly did. I heard one of the 606 pundits (Mark Chapman I think), referring to it as the "Charlton syndrome" last week.
To be fair, they were not secret. They tended to get airtime on 606. The journalists gave them a hard time.
Bloke on 606 last night slamming Soton for their decision said: (his words) ".... that they should look at Charlton, a classic example of a club thinking they were bigger and better than they actually were and when they sacked Alan Curbishley it all went wrong for them...."
Tool.
So irritating that a lot of people think that all Charlton fans wanted Curbishley out so we could 'push on'. Indeed, there were quite a few who secretly did. I heard one of the 606 pundits (Mark Chapman I think), referring to it as the "Charlton syndrome" last week.
To be fair, they were not secret. They tended to get airtime on 606. The journalists gave them a hard time.
They used to regularly post on netaddicks too. Boring midtable football, Cubishley's taken us as far as he can, blah, blah, blah.
DFT is one I remember but there were plenty of others some of whom post here.
But in the end that was AC's view too. He wanted a change and wouldn't sign a long term contract. Curbishley was not pushed out by Charlton and just bceause of all that happened subsequetly it would be wrong to imply he was.
Bloke on 606 last night slamming Soton for their decision said: (his words) ".... that they should look at Charlton, a classic example of a club thinking they were bigger and better than they actually were and when they sacked Alan Curbishley it all went wrong for them...."
Tool.
So irritating that a lot of people think that all Charlton fans wanted Curbishley out so we could 'push on'. Indeed, there were quite a few who secretly did. I heard one of the 606 pundits (Mark Chapman I think), referring to it as the "Charlton syndrome" last week.
To be fair, they were not secret. They tended to get airtime on 606. The journalists gave them a hard time.
They used to regularly post on netaddicks too. Boring midtable football, Cubishley's taken us as far as he can, blah, blah, blah.
DFT is one I remember but there were plenty of others some of whom post here.
I was always pro-Curbs but 15 years at a club is extraordinary and he had created a template for survival that had almost become a parody of itself by the end.
I was always fearful about the potential for meltdown when he left but also thought the right appointment could really re-invigorate the club and give us a new lease of life.
Curbs was happy to see the last year out but Murray decided he wanted the change earlier than required and Curbs offered to help Murray find a replacement (Mick McCarthy was Curbs preferred choice) but Murray wanted to do it his own way and appoint Dowie and force on him his own choice of backroom staff
Curbs himself commentating on his agreed departure from Charlton said it was a decent parting of the ways after a long spell in the job, and added 'it's better to be clapped out of the front door, than pushed out the back'. He was indeed clapped by us all who appreciated what he had done. Nothing at all like the Adkins departure...I mean the note on the door for the players....???? Very sad indeed.
Curbs was happy to see the last year out but Murray decided he wanted the change earlier than required and Curbs offered to help Murray find a replacement (Mick McCarthy was Curbs preferred choice) but Murray wanted to do it his own way and appoint Dowie and force on him his own choice of backroom staff
I think you might have mentioned that in passing before......:)
But Curbs knew that to work out the last year would have made him a lame duck. It never works, how many managers work till the end of their contracts and then happily say goodbye? It just doesn't happen. Remember Sir Bobby at Newcastle? So to suggest this is a bit of a red herring to be honest. The chairman wanted long term commitment but Curbs wanted a change and so they compromised. Really no big mystery.
The only people who will possibly be pleased are the Venkys. Their long reign as undisputed, most incompetent, fan alienating chairmen is finally at an end... well, the undisputed bit anyway.
GGA - who are the 'old fashioned English managers' in the Premier League?
To be fair, old fashioned does not have to mean veteran and in some cases the managers holding back english football are not english, my list would be Fergie/Allardyce/Pulis/Redknapp who are the main offenders in this sense but i would add Mancini/Benitez/Pardew/Moyes/O'Neill/Jol all to the list to, now im not expecting everyone to agree and i at no point believe all foreign managers are better then british managers, i just personally want to see a solution to the ongoing pathetic showing on an international level from the England team, im not even saying what im suggesting would 100% work just that im sick of people bringing out the same old BS excuses like foreigners are all cheats or Spain/Germany whoever else have just got lucky with a generation of players.
Im also not saying any of those listed are bad managers as there clearly not in most cases.
So once again for the help of certain people who seemed to struggle with my earlier posts.
Sacking Adkins was a ridiculous decision but im pleased to see a man like Pochettino in english football, hopefully to stay and show that he is not some "stupid/crap argie manager" as i have seen him called on various sites.
Pochettino has drafted coaches Jesus Perez, Miguel D'Agostino and Toni Jimenez into his backroom team and they have replaced Dean Wilkins, Andy Crosby and Jim Stannard.
So TJ has finally got a more hands on football job! And working with Jesus too...
No wonder we have an unemployment problem .. all these f***ing foreigners coming over here .... still, I suppose Spain's unemployed millions deserve a chance
This is nothing like the Curbs situation whatsoever. If you are going to compare it to anything then it would be Hughton at Newcastle or Warnock at QPR or even Allardyce at Blackburn.
We were already on a downward slope when Curbs left. The above examples were all taking their clubs forward.
Comments
At least Adkins won't have to worry about finding another job.
I am a huge fan of what the German FA did for their football and the set up there and I wish ours was the same and that our FA were castrated in public as half time entertainment along with the EPL and Sky officials. But there is also the flip side that the Bundesliga doesn't sell anywhere near as well as the EPL as it isn't seen as as exciting. There's also not a sense of watching different teams that you get watching the EPL and that I like. Bundesliga teams are mostly basically better/worse clones of each other. The English set up/ethos does seem to allow for more diversity than others.
How long have we been saying that if we could only take the English work rate, commitment and speed and add it to the technical ability of the 'better' countries we would be unbeatable. Has never come close to happening despite the FA spending fortunes on trendy foreign managers (one inparticular) and an apparent policy amongst certain teams to only hire non English managers.
.
Also if the German football system produces such great technical national team players why are so many of the national team not actually German and are nationalised foreigners? The same reason why Belgium is doing so well at the moment (but to a much lesser extent).
And before anyone says I'm being xenophobic or something stupid, I don't have a problem with it, I would love to have seen Di Canio in an England shirt! I'm just pointing out there's a little more to the German situation than just changing the set up. The fans attitude and the greed of the powers that be have to change, and that just isn't going to happen.
Heard he is a good physio...LMAO
To clarify SCP is one of the modern english managers, that has the potential to change things for the better, him and Pochettino have a few similarities in style of management.
Does that mean it's more about the quantity and quality of coaching at grassroots level? Have the Germans simply got lucky with a golden generation of stars?
Re the TV money, the story it doesn't tell us is, what happens in the second league of each country. Thats where the German model would look more impressive by comparison.
Tool.
Back to the thread, Adkins has been poorly treated. If they'd decided to bring in a proven foreign manager that might be slightly understandable, although still very unfair, but they haven't and it's poor. As for old fashioned english managers, not sure who would be in that bracket in the PL.
They used to regularly post on netaddicks too. Boring midtable football, Cubishley's taken us as far as he can, blah, blah, blah.
DFT is one I remember but there were plenty of others some of whom post here.
I was always fearful about the potential for meltdown when he left but also thought the right appointment could really re-invigorate the club and give us a new lease of life.
We then wrecked that theory by appointing Dowie.
Nothing at all like the Adkins departure...I mean the note on the door for the players....????
Very sad indeed.
The chairman wanted long term commitment but Curbs wanted a change and so they compromised. Really no big mystery.
If it was us and ScP had suffered that I would want more aggressive protests and Atleast some disturbance requiring OB
http://stubblogarticles.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/pick-up-pochettino-southamptons-latest.html
Im also not saying any of those listed are bad managers as there clearly not in most cases.
So once again for the help of certain people who seemed to struggle with my earlier posts.
Sacking Adkins was a ridiculous decision but im pleased to see a man like Pochettino in english football, hopefully to stay and show that he is not some "stupid/crap argie manager" as i have seen him called on various sites.
We were already on a downward slope when Curbs left. The above examples were all taking their clubs forward.