What's happened is that Jiminez has succeeded in removing the people that brought the very challenge he needs - and of course the cash, more on that in a sec. Now it's pretty much his baby, and slowly but surely the organisation will take on his personality as it does with any such business led by people who won't be challenged. He will continue to make decisions that mortgage the club's future with no-one to question the wisdom. If it succeeds he'll be hailed the hero he craves - if he fails, well he may be a poorer fellow for it but the club will be in the gutter, and possibly worse off than before.
Now this is what I don't get. You seem to have a pretty good understanding of what Tony Jimenez is like.Everyone does it seems.If the stories are true, then it's common knowledge that he is a bit of an egotist that will let nothing stand in his way to get what he wants.You know this.I now know this.And I'm pretty sure that the people who frequent in football circles have known this for a lot longer than we have.People like Richard Murray and Peter Varney
And so begs the question.Why were the likes of Richard Murray and Peter Varney so keen to give a man like that the keys to the bloody castle?
Re the senior management team, what's glaringly obvious to me is that Prothero is not running the club. He may well have been hire to restructure the club, but right now he has holes everywhere and seemingly little idea how to fill them.
How can you say that when the whole thread is reporting progress in agreeing a new management structure and starting the recruitment process?
Why were the likes of Richard Murray and Peter Varney so keen to give a man like that the keys to the bloody castle?
i believe that the keys to the castle were handed over to Mr Cash as a main player
Exactly, It surely was the attraction of Cash and his Cash, unfortunately Jimenez cannot sustain a business friendship for love or unfortunately money.
Why were the likes of Richard Murray and Peter Varney so keen to give a man like that the keys to the bloody castle?
i believe that the keys to the castle were handed over to Mr Cash as a main player
Exactly, It surely was the attraction of Cash and his Cash, unfortunately Jimenez cannot sustain a business friendship for love or unfortunately money.
A man,who if the truth be told,is probably more slippery than the lot of them.
Thank you for mentioning your HR credentials. So I'll try to put my concerns to you on the basis that we talk the same language.
My stance on the departure of Messrs Varney, Kavanagh, Everitt, and Ms Perfect is that this is a shambolic and wanton destruction of human capital, which will do the club no good. If I may presume to summarise your position, it is that it is quite common for incoming new owners to want to install new people because they believe they can run the business better. Therefore while it is distressing in the short term the long term effects will be positive. The new people will bring new ideas and new energy. Now, in that scenario, you know what is best practice: In order to avoid employment law issues, those they want to get rid of are taken aside, and quietly made a generous offer (I'd expect 6 months salary), and an agreement that both parties will be magnanimous about each other so as not to disturb the customers. At the same time as this process has taken place, replacements will have been lined up. In such a situation it may be impossible to have a handover period, its better to let the outgoing people leave immediately, but you aim for their replacements to be in place ideally the week after. As HR professionals, do you have any issue with what I portray above?
Now, without wishing to go over old ground, this is manifestly not how the 4 people above have left, is it? Not is it how their replacements have been found. Indeed it seems the search for their replacements has only just started.
That, basically is my problem with what's gone on. I'm interested to hear why, from a HR professional point of view, my fears may be unfounded.
Thank you for mentioning your HR credentials. So I'll try to put my concerns to you on the basis that we talk the same language.
I worked in recruitment for two and a bit years so will be happy to try and translate for any mere mortals reading whom would otherwise find Prague's post illegible...
Thank you for mentioning your HR credentials. So I'll try to put my concerns to you on the basis that we talk the same language.
I worked in recruitment for two and a bit years so will be happy to try and translate for any mere mortals reading whom would otherwise find Prague's post illegible...
;-)
But we thrive on unintelligible jargon. It is how we shore up our positions when others question what we are for ;-)
Thank you for mentioning your HR credentials. So I'll try to put my concerns to you on the basis that we talk the same language.
I worked in recruitment for two and a bit years so will be happy to try and translate for any mere mortals reading whom would otherwise find Prague's post illegible...
;-)
I'll take a whisper.They do say bullshit baffles brains. ;-)
Thank you for mentioning your HR credentials. So I'll try to put my concerns to you on the basis that we talk the same language.
My stance on the departure of Messrs Varney, Kavanagh, Everitt, and Ms Perfect is that this is a shambolic and wanton destruction of human capital, which will do the club no good.
I THINK THE DEPARTURE OF STAFF IS BAD FOR CHARLTON.
If I may presume to summarise your position, it is that it is quite common for incoming new owners to want to install new people because they believe they can run the business better. Therefore while it is distressing in the short term the long term effects will be positive. The new people will bring new ideas and new energy.
YOU THINK IT MIGHT NOT BE BAD LONG TERM
Now, in that scenario, you know what is best practice: In order to avoid employment law issues, those they want to get rid of are taken aside, and quietly made a generous offer (I'd expect 6 months salary), and an agreement that both parties will be magnanimous about each other so as not to disturb the customers. At the same time as this process has taken place, replacements will have been lined up. In such a situation it may be impossible to have a handover period, its better to let the outgoing people leave immediately, but you aim for their replacements to be in place ideally the week after.
PEOPLE MAY BE OFFERED PAY OFFS TO PRIVATELY TERMINATE EMPLOYMENT AND NEW BODS BROUGHT IN
As HR professionals, do you have any issue with what I portray above?
DO YOU FELLOW GURUS THINK IT'S KOSHER?
Now, without wishing to go over old ground, this is manifestly not how the 4 people above have left, is it? Not is it how their replacements have been found. Indeed it seems the search for their replacements has only just started.
IT'S NOT KOSHER IS IT?
That, basically is my problem with what's gone on. I'm interested to hear why, from a HR professional point of view, my fears may be unfounded.
PROVIDE MORE HUMAN RESOURCE (SINCE WHEN DID IT STOP BEING "PERSONNEL" BY THE WAY?) TALK AS TO WHY I MAY BE WRONG
Of course it's been a long time since I worked in a HR related role in any capacity so the lingo may have evolved since then but I think that's the jist ;-)
And that's before we get to Chris Powell's situation.
Airman, you've been very forthright about a number of issues, but the thing with Chris remains shrouded in innuendo. For most common or garden fans if a genuine club legend like Powell were adversely affected by changes in the club's administration, it would be massive concern. Can you say why he might be feeling uneasy or unhappy?
Thank you for mentioning your HR credentials. So I'll try to put my concerns to you on the basis that we talk the same language.
My stance on the departure of Messrs Varney, Kavanagh, Everitt, and Ms Perfect is that this is a shambolic and wanton destruction of human capital, which will do the club no good. If I may presume to summarise your position, it is that it is quite common for incoming new owners to want to install new people because they believe they can run the business better. Therefore while it is distressing in the short term the long term effects will be positive. The new people will bring new ideas and new energy. Now, in that scenario, you know what is best practice: In order to avoid employment law issues, those they want to get rid of are taken aside, and quietly made a generous offer (I'd expect 6 months salary), and an agreement that both parties will be magnanimous about each other so as not to disturb the customers. At the same time as this process has taken place, replacements will have been lined up. In such a situation it may be impossible to have a handover period, its better to let the outgoing people leave immediately, but you aim for their replacements to be in place ideally the week after. As HR professionals, do you have any issue with what I portray above?
Now, without wishing to go over old ground, this is manifestly not how the 4 people above have left, is it? Not is it how their replacements have been found. Indeed it seems the search for their replacements has only just started.
That, basically is my problem with what's gone on. I'm interested to hear why, from a HR professional point of view, my fears may be unfounded.
Prague - I don't disagree with any of this EXCEPT that your summary of my views on the situation are not accurate. Read my posts again and you will see that. I have simply said that the agreement of a new management structure and the commencement of the recruitment process seems to be a positive move. I have also said that we do not know in what way the new roles differ from pre-existing ones, and that may hold the key to the questions we all have. I have also criticised the lack of communication and consultation.
I think you are assuming a bigger divide in views than there actually is. I just don't agree that everything the Board/Prothero do is by definition wrong and am pleased that there seems to be some progress in addressing the senior management vacuum at the club - please note I have not condoned in any way the way in which that vacuum has been created in the first place.
And that's before we get to Chris Powell's situation.
Airman, you've been very forthright about a number of issues, but the thing with Chris remains shrouded in innuendo. For most common or garden fans if a genuine club legend like Powell were adversely affected by changes in the club's administration, it would be massive concern. Can you say why he might be feeling uneasy or unhappy?
I don't think it will assist Chris for me to add anything to what's been said already. But he deserves our support.
Re the senior management team, what's glaringly obvious to me is that Prothero is not running the club. He may well have been hire to restructure the club, but right now he has holes everywhere and seemingly little idea how to fill them.
How can you say that when the whole thread is reporting progress in agreeing a new management structure and starting the recruitment process?
And that's before we get to Chris Powell's situation.
Airman, you've been very forthright about a number of issues, but the thing with Chris remains shrouded in innuendo. For most common or garden fans if a genuine club legend like Powell were adversely affected by changes in the club's administration, it would be massive concern. Can you say why he might be feeling uneasy or unhappy?
I don't think it will assist Chris for me to add anything to what's been said already. But he deserves our support.
Ok respect that, but I'm a bit confused about the purpose of bringing it up. Sorry if I'm missing something, but could you recap about what has already been said, thanks.
The debate about how a restructure should take place has been eloquently put in posts above. I think I have taken it all in, so perhaps just a couple of things to think about.
AB's opening post seems to have been taken to mean that the Club have only just started the process of recruiting and that this is not the way to manage major change, certainly in a SME which often relies heavily on the dedication of its' staff, including middle management.
That's all very true, but I don't think it's true that the appointment of a recruitment agency means that the process of appointing replacements/new roles has only just started. Prothero was brought in for his undoubted experience in the sports industry and the contacts he has built. I think there's a bit of naivety around if you don't believe that he hasn't been speaking with other clubs about structure and people, as well as using his own contacts.
There are differing points of view about what this all means to our Club, but change in any organisation will always bring a period of uncertainty. Sadly, some excellent people have been forced out and/or lost their jobs. That's something that none of us would wish on others, but we aren't the ones whose money is on line and that also answers the question raised above about why RM & PV would hand the keys over to these guys...there were no other bidders and the alternative would have seen a lot more people out of their jobs, no Valley Express & we certainly wouldn't have been in the Championship or, probably, League 1.
Comments
You seem to have a pretty good understanding of what Tony Jimenez is like.Everyone does it seems.If the stories are true, then it's common knowledge that he is a bit of an egotist that will let nothing stand in his way to get what he wants.You know this.I now know this.And I'm pretty sure that the people who frequent in football circles have known this for a lot longer than we have.People like Richard Murray and Peter Varney
And so begs the question.Why were the likes of Richard Murray and Peter Varney so keen to give a man like that the keys to the bloody castle?
Jimenez's name above the door.
Thank you for mentioning your HR credentials. So I'll try to put my concerns to you on the basis that we talk the same language.
My stance on the departure of Messrs Varney, Kavanagh, Everitt, and Ms Perfect is that this is a shambolic and wanton destruction of human capital, which will do the club no good.
If I may presume to summarise your position, it is that it is quite common for incoming new owners to want to install new people because they believe they can run the business better. Therefore while it is distressing in the short term the long term effects will be positive. The new people will bring new ideas and new energy.
Now, in that scenario, you know what is best practice: In order to avoid employment law issues, those they want to get rid of are taken aside, and quietly made a generous offer (I'd expect 6 months salary), and an agreement that both parties will be magnanimous about each other so as not to disturb the customers. At the same time as this process has taken place, replacements will have been lined up. In such a situation it may be impossible to have a handover period, its better to let the outgoing people leave immediately, but you aim for their replacements to be in place ideally the week after.
As HR professionals, do you have any issue with what I portray above?
Now, without wishing to go over old ground, this is manifestly not how the 4 people above have left, is it? Not is it how their replacements have been found. Indeed it seems the search for their replacements has only just started.
That, basically is my problem with what's gone on. I'm interested to hear why, from a HR professional point of view, my fears may be unfounded.
;-)
Go on, then :-)
I'll take a whisper.They do say bullshit baffles brains. ;-)
That's how some companies get rid of their people nowadays - there appears to be no compassion in business at the moment.
Doesn't make it right though and if I wanted rid of an employee your scenario is the one 'd follow rather the TJs.
But then it's probably why I'm not a multi millionaire.
- Harry Callaghan, 1976
I'm gonna crawl away to the telly now.
But I'm still expecting an answer from those two HR guys.
I think you are assuming a bigger divide in views than there actually is. I just don't agree that everything the Board/Prothero do is by definition wrong and am pleased that there seems to be some progress in addressing the senior management vacuum at the club - please note I have not condoned in any way the way in which that vacuum has been created in the first place.
AB's opening post seems to have been taken to mean that the Club have only just started the process of recruiting and that this is not the way to manage major change, certainly in a SME which often relies heavily on the dedication of its' staff, including middle management.
That's all very true, but I don't think it's true that the appointment of a recruitment agency means that the process of appointing replacements/new roles has only just started. Prothero was brought in for his undoubted experience in the sports industry and the contacts he has built. I think there's a bit of naivety around if you don't believe that he hasn't been speaking with other clubs about structure and people, as well as using his own contacts.
There are differing points of view about what this all means to our Club, but change in any organisation will always bring a period of uncertainty. Sadly, some excellent people have been forced out and/or lost their jobs. That's something that none of us would wish on others, but we aren't the ones whose money is on line and that also answers the question raised above about why RM & PV would hand the keys over to these guys...there were no other bidders and the alternative would have seen a lot more people out of their jobs, no Valley Express & we certainly wouldn't have been in the Championship or, probably, League 1.