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New CAFC senior management structure

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  • "As an example I had no discussion whatsoever with Prothero about why our ticketing policies are what they are, what the medium term strategy was or the business case for Valley Express."

    .

    The bloke was a top boy at Umbro...im sure he knows a few things about the 4Ps and the marketing mix and will soon get to grips with it.

    We aren't sending rockets into space or splitting atoms.
    No, maybe not but surely he could have found time for a 30 minute conversation about these things with the guy who had lived & breathed them for the last 20 years? Or is he so arrogant that he just assumes he doesn't need to know any details? Tbh, the more I hear about Mr. Prothero the less I like him. This is the man who sacked Airman by e-mail remember.


  • "As an example I had no discussion whatsoever with Prothero about why our ticketing policies are what they are, what the medium term strategy was or the business case for Valley Express."

    .

    The bloke was a top boy at Umbro...im sure he knows a few things about the 4Ps and the marketing mix and will soon get to grips with it.

    We aren't sending rockets into space or splitting atoms.
    No, maybe not but surely he could have found time for a 30 minute conversation about these things with the guy who had lived & breathed them for the last 20 years? Or is he so arrogant that he just assumes he doesn't need to know any details? Tbh, the more I hear about Mr. Prothero the less I like him. This is the man who sacked Airman by e-mail remember.
    Well ive only seen one side of that story on that so am not going to take a dislike on someone based on that. Will judge him myself on the performance of his role.


  • "As an example I had no discussion whatsoever with Prothero about why our ticketing policies are what they are, what the medium term

    strategy was or the business case for Valley Express."

    .

    The bloke was a top boy at Umbro...im sure he knows a few things about the 4Ps and the marketing mix and will soon get to grips with it.

    We aren't sending rockets into space or splitting atoms.
    What did he work part time for them as well he must be rolling in it.
    No but im just praying that his experience of being a Senior VP at a global sports brand, involving tying up a deal with Nike has lent a modicum of transferrable skills that can be put to use with ticket pricing strategies and the like at a second tier football club.
    Pray hard then because he may be a senior VP at umbro but his part time interference in our club that is undoing the good work that has taken years to build up is doing more harm than good. The sooner our club is sold the better imo.

  • The board have been here nearly 2 years and like it or not have got us in a position better than we were in when they took over

    Like it or not ??? Seriosuly who would not like us being in a better position ..... You make some good points but crap like that is a bit odd

  • How many managers move clubs and then take their backroom staff with them?

    It's not a slur on the previous encumbents it's just what the new manager wants.


  • "As an example I had no discussion whatsoever with Prothero about why our ticketing policies are what they are, what the medium term

    strategy was or the business case for Valley Express."

    .

    The bloke was a top boy at Umbro...im sure he knows a few things about the 4Ps and the marketing mix and will soon get to grips with it.

    We aren't sending rockets into space or splitting atoms.
    What did he work part time for them as well he must be rolling in it.
    No but im just praying that his experience of being a Senior VP at a global sports brand, involving tying up a deal with Nike has lent a modicum of transferrable skills that can be put to use with ticket pricing strategies and the like at a second tier football club.
    Pray hard then because he may be a senior VP at umbro but his part time interference in our club that is undoing the good work that has taken years to build up is doing more harm than good. The sooner our club is sold the better imo.</blockquote

    I have a difference of opinion. I dont think he has been in the role long enough to be judged on his performance in his role. Time will tell of course as it will with the rest of the board.

    At the moment though as i see it the board have backed the manager in league one after an absymal end to his first season, funded a league winning squad and thankfully so far stuck by him when other boards may have stupidly and wrecklessly panicked and sacked him. Would have been great to have spent money in the summer to strenghthen the squad further and improve it and to have better general communication but on balance am happy with their tenure as a Charlton supporter.

  • The board have been here nearly 2 years and like it or not have got us in a position better than we were in when they took over

    Like it or not ??? Seriosuly who would not like us being in a better position ..... You make some good points but crap like that is a bit odd

    Was joking. Relax.
  • Addickted said:

    Rodney

    In the post Curbs years do you think that the following things contributed to the demise:

    1. Ticket pricing strategy
    2. the provisions of Valley Express/Valley Away on a break-even basis
    3. Marketing campaigns to get more bums on seats
    4. The functioning of sales outlets
    5. The general match-day operation of the stadium

    If you do not, but on the other hand think these things worked quite well, especially by comparison with benchmark clubs such as Palarse and Spanners, can you please explain me why the club would want to get rid of the people who delivered these things?

    Perhaps they believe that,

    1. The pricing strategy is wrong and has reduced income.
    2. Valley Express should be making money
    3. Marketing can be significantly improved - text messages/e mails from the Red Card database for instance
    4. Sales from the outlets is probably outstripped by internet sales - hence the closure (at some cost) of the Bexleyheath outlet.
    5. We can improve significnalty the non matchday operation of the stadium.

    Who knows? Perhaps their hand has been forced by the PV departure?
    All interesting points that could and should be explored by new owners. But wouldn't you want to know why things are as they are as part of that process?
  • Ok , never had you down as one with a noticeable sense of humour...noted now :-)
  • Some people care about the football, others care about the football club.
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  • Ok , never had you down as one with a noticeable sense of humour...noted now :-)

    ha ha ;-)
  • WSS said:

    Some people care about the football, others care about the football club.

    I care about both in case you are inferring I dont.
  • Nah RCT, not at you at all mate. A general point aimed probably more at the significant number of non-Lifers unaware of any of this.
  • edited November 2012



    "As an example I had no discussion whatsoever with Prothero about why our ticketing policies are what they are, what the medium term

    strategy was or the business case for Valley Express."

    .

    The bloke was a top boy at Umbro...im sure he knows a few things about the 4Ps and the marketing mix and will soon get to grips with it.

    We aren't sending rockets into space or splitting atoms.
    What did he work part time for them as well he must be rolling in it.
    No but im just praying that his experience of being a Senior VP at a global sports brand, involving tying up a deal with Nike has lent a modicum of transferrable skills that can be put to use with ticket pricing strategies and the like at a second tier football club.



    "As an example I had no discussion whatsoever with Prothero about why our ticketing policies are what they are, what the medium term

    strategy was or the business case for Valley Express."

    .

    The bloke was a top boy at Umbro...im sure he knows a few things about the 4Ps and the marketing mix and will soon get to grips with it.

    We aren't sending rockets into space or splitting atoms.
    What did he work part time for them as well he must be rolling in it.
    No but im just praying that his experience of being a Senior VP at a global sports brand, involving tying up a deal with Nike has lent a modicum of transferrable skills that can be put to use with ticket pricing strategies and the like at a second tier football club.
    In my experience most "big firm" managers are used to handling a team of competent underlings so they do not get their hands dirty themselves. They just play corporate politics and concentrate on covering their own arses by sacrificing underlings if necessary.

    I get the impression, rightly or wrongly, that the management approach at Charlton has been, of necessity probably, far more hands on and that knowledge and hard won experience is being lost.

    You work in accountancy Rodney so will understand where I am coming from with this personal anecdote:

    Many moons ago I audited an organisation where a prospective parliamentary candidate for the area was working as a director designate. At the time his role was to work in various areas of the organisation in order to increase his understanding of went on.

    The FD thought it would be of benefit if I asked this chap about the purchase ledger process as he was fully aware that I was going to base my audit on the results of my compliance "walk through" test. As you know (but others may not) to do a "walk through" test properly you have to understand every stage of a transaction from initial order to final payment hence the FD thinking it would be a good "test" for the director designate.

    To cut a long story short the director designate was hopelessly out of his comfort zone to the extent that he loudly abused me, and auditors in general, in an office full of people. He then said that in his military career people like me would have been sorted out physically. I was very young and physically quite fit at that time so responded that if he wanted to have a go I'd come outside with him and sort it out or alternatively I could go back to the FD the choice was his. At that point he backed down and put an underling at my disposal and I completed my task.

    This man was duly elected as an MP and has gone on to become a Lord.

    In short Rodney reputations in big firms can mean nothing out of those big firms.
  • Addickted said:

    How many managers move clubs and then take their backroom staff with them?

    It's not a slur on the previous encumbents it's just what the new manager wants.

    But the new manager hasn't been appointed yet. Prothero isn't full time or an executive.

    That is what is so odd. Varney leaving was part of a "planned" re-structure in the summer. Kavanagh left in July or August without a word of thanks and a buried mention in the programme.

    Now in November we are said to be looking for a "Chief Operating Officer" and various other people. Why such a big gap if Prothero is just bringing in his own backroom staff putting aside how legal that is.

    As for the "board did a great job and got us promoted"yes the old board, with some major help from Chris Powell and the players, did but that board has changed significantly.

    No Varney, no Kavanagh (remember Kav was seen so much as part of the success last year that he went to Vegas with the players and coaching staff) and most importantly no cash for Kevin Cash. Hence Slater (who is Cash's front man) looking to step away and appoint Paul Elliot to the Chairman's role.

    It's not the same board and it's no longer the same plan. Jimenez may well be reacting to the new reality and making much needed changes but for gods sake tell us what, why and when. He may well be pumping the money in to keep us going but for gods sake tell us that. He maybe making all these management changes for very sound business reasons but for gods sake tell us that.

    And yes he doesn't HAVE to tell us anything but maybe Prothero can explain that one of the 4Ps is Promotion.




  • "As an example I had no discussion whatsoever with Prothero about why our ticketing policies are what they are, what the medium term strategy was or the business case for Valley Express."

    .

    The bloke was a top boy at Umbro...im sure he knows a few things about the 4Ps and the marketing mix and will soon get to grips with it.

    We aren't sending rockets into space or splitting atoms.
    No, maybe not but surely he could have found time for a 30 minute conversation about these things with the guy who had lived & breathed them for the last 20 years? Or is he so arrogant that he just assumes he doesn't need to know any details? Tbh, the more I hear about Mr. Prothero the less I like him. This is the man who sacked Airman by e-mail remember.
    Well ive only seen one side of that story on that so am not going to take a dislike on someone based on that. Will judge him myself on the performance of his role.
    I accept it's difficult and actually you haven't heard my side of the sacking either. You haven't heard from Peter Varney or Steve Kavanagh. You do know we all left abruptly with little or no explanation from the club. You know who we are and what we've done in the past. You know rather less about Jimenez, Slater and Prothero (I assume). Even though I fully accept we have no right to own the future because of the past, I suggest you err on the side of complacency, but time will tell. Keep watching.

  • LenGlover said:

    Addickted said:

    TBH part time or not, it's the value one brings to the business that matters. Branson works 8 hours a week as he's got top managers reporting to him. That aside, the main concern for me is the loss of committed staff who may be less skilled but the Value of their passion for the job often outweigh the skill shortfalls if the competency is applicable. A mix of the two can boost efficiency if done correctly.

    To me, the investment in first the academy and now the staffing shows a steely determination to have a lean and mean fighting machine that could take us back to the premiership once funds are put in the playing squad. They're putting all the ducks in line here.

    For me a cold and efficient machine that keeps us in the Premiership is less desirable than a warm, fan-centred, frustrating in terms of efficiency team that keeps us yo-yoing between the divisions, creating despondency and exhilaration in us all - that'd do me!

    What investment in (non-football) staffing?
    ".......the club has engaged a professional sports recruitment agency to help it fill new senior management team positions at The Valley. The posts will all report to the "non-executive" executive vice chairman Part-time Prothero and are chief operating officer - essentially overlapping Mick Everett's job, chief finance officer - likely to be offered to current head of finance David Joyes if he chooses to stay, and chief marketing officer, recruitment of which is being mysteriously held up for process reasons".





    Those agencies don't come cheap.

    In fact the fees for recruiting 2-3 high level staff if the salary figures of £500k quoted above for Capelin etc are accurate and thus comparable could be £100k and certainly not less than £50k.

    We could be into selling a player territory to fund it if money is as tight as has been alleged.

    I'm not convinced of the wisdom of all this either.
    Glad you mention that Len. I know you're right because that is where nowadays I make most of my crust. 3 times gross monthly salary we charge, and there are companies which charge more. I too thought it pretty 'interesting' that they are paying money for this. It gives the lie to the idea that this is a smooth well planned transition. If Protehro had replaced people with his own trusty lieutenants from his previous roles, that would be a different matter.

  • Len know what you are saying.
  • Airman, I am shocked that no one left at the club understands your initiatives and did not see fit to ask you about them. Is there a written business plan/case that lays out the pros and cons of your decisions that could still be used going forward?
  • edited November 2012

    LenGlover said:

    Addickted said:

    TBH part time or not, it's the value one brings to the business that matters. Branson works 8 hours a week as he's got top managers reporting to him. That aside, the main concern for me is the loss of committed staff who may be less skilled but the Value of their passion for the job often outweigh the skill shortfalls if the competency is applicable. A mix of the two can boost efficiency if done correctly.

    To me, the investment in first the academy and now the staffing shows a steely determination to have a lean and mean fighting machine that could take us back to the premiership once funds are put in the playing squad. They're putting all the ducks in line here.

    For me a cold and efficient machine that keeps us in the Premiership is less desirable than a warm, fan-centred, frustrating in terms of efficiency team that keeps us yo-yoing between the divisions, creating despondency and exhilaration in us all - that'd do me!

    What investment in (non-football) staffing?
    ".......the club has engaged a professional sports recruitment agency to help it fill new senior management team positions at The Valley. The posts will all report to the "non-executive" executive vice chairman Part-time Prothero and are chief operating officer - essentially overlapping Mick Everett's job, chief finance officer - likely to be offered to current head of finance David Joyes if he chooses to stay, and chief marketing officer, recruitment of which is being mysteriously held up for process reasons".





    Those agencies don't come cheap.

    In fact the fees for recruiting 2-3 high level staff if the salary figures of £500k quoted above for Capelin etc are accurate and thus comparable could be £100k and certainly not less than £50k.

    We could be into selling a player territory to fund it if money is as tight as has been alleged.

    I'm not convinced of the wisdom of all this either.
    Glad you mention that Len. I know you're right because that is where nowadays I make most of my crust. 3 times gross monthly salary we charge, and there are companies which charge more. I too thought it pretty 'interesting' that they are paying money for this. It gives the lie to the idea that this is a smooth well planned transition. If Protehro had replaced people with his own trusty lieutenants from his previous roles, that would be a different matter.

    Salaries for the new posts are currently lower than is being assumed (albeit they may be changed to reflect the actual appointments). That may explain the point about Part-time's mates.
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  • edited November 2012



    "As an example I had no discussion whatsoever with Prothero about why our ticketing policies are what they are, what the medium term strategy was or the business case for Valley Express."

    .

    The bloke was a top boy at Umbro...im sure he knows a few things about the 4Ps and the marketing mix and will soon get to grips with it.

    We aren't sending rockets into space or splitting atoms.
    No, maybe not but surely he could have found time for a 30 minute conversation about these things with the guy who had lived & breathed them for the last 20 years? Or is he so arrogant that he just assumes he doesn't need to know any details? Tbh, the more I hear about Mr. Prothero the less I like him. This is the man who sacked Airman by e-mail remember.
    Well ive only seen one side of that story on that so am not going to take a dislike on someone based on that. Will judge him myself on the performance of his role.
    I accept it's difficult and actually you haven't heard my side of the sacking either. You haven't heard from Peter Varney or Steve Kavanagh. You do know we all left abruptly with little or no explanation from the club. You know who we are and what we've done in the past. You know rather less about Jimenez, Slater and Prothero (I assume). Even though I fully accept we have no right to own the future because of the past, I suggest you err on the side of complacency, but time will tell. Keep watching.

    How I am being complacent?

    Peter Varney brought these lot into the club didnt he (?) and Richard Murray told average not in the know Charlton supporters like me that they were the right people for us ie Jiminez and Slater.

    If that has changed then their judgement in telling us that should be questioned and surely if the club is in detriment under the management of the people they brought in then they should tell the same people whom they told us were the right people are in fact not.


  • Glad you mention that Len. I know you're right because that is where nowadays I make most of my crust. 3 times gross monthly salary we charge, and there are companies which charge more. I too thought it pretty 'interesting' that they are paying money for this. It gives the lie to the idea that this is a smooth well planned transition. If Protehro had replaced people with his own trusty lieutenants from his previous roles, that would be a different matter.





    I don't get your logic here Prague. I would be very worried if Prothero simply created and then filled new posts with his old buddies. As it is, it looks to me as if Prothero has completed his review of the management structure, had restructuring proposals approved by the Board and is now going to the market to find the best available candidates for the posts. All very sensible in my view and well worth the recruitment fees if the selections are successful. I don't think it is clear what the new roles will be responsible for and to what extent these are bigger roles than those carried out by existing job holders - that will be an important step in understanding how the new structure will work. I agree that the apparent unwillingness of Prothero to understand the detail of some of the activities undertaken is worrying, but most organisations would have such things detailed in operating plans/procedures so that the loss of key people (not always controllable) can be withstood.

    I think that Rodney and Addicted make some very valid points in the preceding posts. To me, these are positive moves overall even if there are some aspects (especially lack of consultation and poor communication). There has been a lot of disquiet on this forum over the apparent vacuum at the senior levels of the organisation so I don't think we can complain when a new structure is created and recruitment processes commenced.
  • edited November 2012
    Airman could I ask a question about the Valley Express operation?
    From what you have said it would appear that it runs at a loss, is that purely on the cost of the coaches against the prices fans pay for their seats on them, or is that also including the ( presumed) extra revenue from increased match ticket sales?
    Surely the Valley Express coaches bring in the support of people who may not be able or may not bother to go to matches without that service?
    I am not after information if it is confidential, I am just interested as a Valley Express user myself because it seems to me that it is a service that enables a lot of older fans to get to matches, and of course, young supporters like me ;-)
  • Davo55

    Well it's not the most important issue, but basically in the recruitment game, companies will do their damnedest to avoid hiring recruitment consultants if they can fill the vacancies by hiring people directly. Especially in current times, and especially if you are a company seeking to trim costs, as Charlton are. I thought one of the points about Prothero was his vast network of connections in the sport business, and so I would expect that if he had to make changes he'd know people who were good and whom he could bring in (not his "mates", I give him more credit than that).

    I wish you and others could explain me exactly what is so positive about losing senior and capable people who give 120%, create the "vacuum at senior levels", and then fanny around for several months before finally going to the expense of hiring recruitment consultants. It shows they got rid of good people without having the faintest idea how to get better people.

    Many times I've had to point out in this business that it is relatively easy to fire people. It is much harder to replace them with better people.
  • It would appear to be apparent that Jimenez, would like to get rid of most/all of the most senior Charlton staff.

    The question is why ?
  • Davo55

    Well it's not the most important issue, but basically in the recruitment game, companies will do their damnedest to avoid hiring recruitment consultants if they can fill the vacancies by hiring people directly. Especially in current times, and especially if you are a company seeking to trim costs, as Charlton are. I thought one of the points about Prothero was his vast network of connections in the sport business, and so I would expect that if he had to make changes he'd know people who were good and whom he could bring in (not his "mates", I give him more credit than that).

    I wish you and others could explain me exactly what is so positive about losing senior and capable people who give 120%, create the "vacuum at senior levels", and then fanny around for several months before finally going to the expense of hiring recruitment consultants. It shows they got rid of good people without having the faintest idea how to get better people.

    Many times I've had to point out in this business that it is relatively easy to fire people. It is much harder to replace them with better people.

    Prague

    I've been in HR for 30 years, 12 of which as HR Director in large and medium sized companies. I know recruitment too. Staff referral schemes are all fine and dandy but when I'm hiring a senior executive, and there have been many, I want to get the best available - including consideration of those already in the organisation and those recommended by senior colleagues.

    There's nothing positive about losing good and committed people - but I am just pointing out that the new senior roles may be significantly different from those pre-existing (incorporating some aspects of what the Chief Executive used to do, possibly) and therefore demanding a higher or broader level of capability. We don't know, do we?

    I would not have chosen to be where we are and things have clearly not been well handled. But, in my view, that does not mean that putting things in place now is wrong.
  • The sequence of events seems very similar to what happened at Newcastle, no coincidence given TJ involvement.

    Could it be that two years down the line, we will all be eating humble pie?

    Perhaps we need owners who treat the club as a business rather than being owned by fans, who think with their heart rather than head?

    Not my opinion, just throwing it out there.......
  • As a retired Personnel Director I know a bit about recruitment but nothing about running a football club, but lots about running small and large companies.

    As fans we don't know what is going on behind the scenes except the words of Airman who we respect but what he says is his point of view.

    In the recent past we were used to open communications from the Board and under achievement from the team. In fact the previous Board could be criticised for their management.

    We now have a Board that does not communicate but the team has been relatively successful.

    There are rumours of financial difficulties but the youth set up has been bolstered, our best current players retained and new players brought in, but no communication.

    The club have let go a number of staff who we have grown used to and respect. I have no idea what went on and have never met any of them, but often when a business is taken over the attitude of the remaining staff to their new bosses can be obstructive in that they think they know best, their way is the best way and what do these people know about our business, if this happens then often the new bosses make a clean sweep, which in the short term is seen as negative but in the long term might be for the best for the new business plan.

    The way the Charlton staff were terminated was very poor, that does not mean it was the wrong thing to do because we don't know both sides of the story.

    As our Board do not communicate we just don't know what their plans are, and IMHO nor will we, it's not their way and we have to get used to that.

    As long as the club continues to be well run and the team survive in CL then I suggest we back these Mysterons. OK when the first wheel falls off a Valley Express coach we can rightly ask for explanations and changes.
  • With you on survival in CL (Champions League) ;0)


  • "As an example I had no discussion whatsoever with Prothero about why our ticketing policies are what they are, what the medium term strategy was or the business case for Valley Express."

    .

    The bloke was a top boy at Umbro...im sure he knows a few things about the 4Ps and the marketing mix and will soon get to grips with it.

    We aren't sending rockets into space or splitting atoms.
    No, maybe not but surely he could have found time for a 30 minute conversation about these things with the guy who had lived & breathed them for the last 20 years? Or is he so arrogant that he just assumes he doesn't need to know any details? Tbh, the more I hear about Mr. Prothero the less I like him. This is the man who sacked Airman by e-mail remember.
    Well ive only seen one side of that story on that so am not going to take a dislike on someone based on that. Will judge him myself on the performance of his role.
    I accept it's difficult and actually you haven't heard my side of the sacking either. You haven't heard from Peter Varney or Steve Kavanagh. You do know we all left abruptly with little or no explanation from the club. You know who we are and what we've done in the past. You know rather less about Jimenez, Slater and Prothero (I assume). Even though I fully accept we have no right to own the future because of the past, I suggest you err on the side of complacency, but time will tell. Keep watching.

    Airman please in that case tell us your side of the story
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