So if you're not prepared to believe everything certain posters say and man the barricades then you don't care about the club or are complacent? I've heard it all now.
One other view could be that there is a lot of shit stirring going on by people with personal agendas.
Me? Well, I guess I'm just complacent and don't care.
Airman please in that case tell us your side of the story
I am still waiting to hear if the club will allow me to appeal against their decision of October 17th, so pending that I am not able to discuss the detail.
Would someone please ask Airman to desist from that habit he has of ending some of his posts with cryptic, doom tinged sentences that always leave me feeling perturbed.
Half expect the EastEnders duff duff's after some of his cliffhangers!
I work for a large multi-national. 10 years ago,when I started we had 150 employees at our site and we were top of the tree.Making huge profits year after year. Nobody could touch us.Good competition around.But not a sniff for them.Then five years ago,during a company restructure ,which also involved an internet usage investigation that none of us had heard of before,many good men and women were fired. The reasons for their sacking were dubious to say the very least. Just after that ,redundancys were offered and many of the old guard took their money and ran for the hills. They were never replaced. 'madness' thought the rest of us that were left to pick up the pieces. 'this place will be shut in a year' was the common cry.
So where are we 5 years on? Well with a fear of losing more jobs people are going the xtra mile. We now have less than 60 employees. Our output has increased by 50%! Now it's not as complicated as organising coaches or making sure the dunnys are clean but its a pretty close second. The harsh world of business Im afraid.
Airman could I ask a question about the Valley Express operation? From what you have said it would appear that it runs at a loss, is that purely on the cost of the coaches against the prices fans pay for their seats on them, or is that also including the ( presumed) extra revenue from increased match ticket sales? Surely the Valley Express coaches bring in the support of people who may not be able or may not bother to go to matches without that service? I am not after information if it is confidential, I am just interested as a Valley Express user myself because it seems to me that it is a service that enables a lot of older fans to get to matches, and of course, young supporters like me ;-)
Valley Express loses money and more money the more successful it is, but this is heavily offset by the associated ticket revenue. The risk of increasing the fare to notional break even is that 1) your costs don't go down with demand and 2) you potentially lose the ticket revenue as well as the fare of anyone you price out. But I am not saying there is no scope going forward to change the fare. Taken together the two coach services lost about £20k last year.
After two years of watching closely how the existing management team operated, it's obvious to me that the new owners doubted their ability to move the Club forward, despite their history and passion for the Club. That's their decision.
What grates is the way they've got rid of those existing employees. It might be 'smart management' and save the Club money - but it's arrogant, disrespectful and just not the right thing to do. The worst face of 'management'. Gone are the days of the philantropic businessman.
Last two times I hired a senior manager I went to a recruitment specialist in the field. They basically went out and found suitable candidates and then sorted the wheat from the chaff and left me with a decision on which of the four best candidates I should hire. Saved me a lot of time and cost me three months salary of the new manager. Both times it was worth every penny.
How many managers move clubs and then take their backroom staff with them?
It's not a slur on the previous encumbents it's just what the new manager wants.
But the new manager hasn't been appointed yet. Prothero isn't full time or an executive.
Yet we're still ticking over - even with a bit of plate spinning behind the scenes.
No collapse of operations - indeed Valley Express was at record levels for the Barnsley game and is operating tomorrow, ticket deals are still there and being taken up, players are coming and going, wages are being paid, the floodlights still work, the concession stand and club shop are still trading, the box office is still sending out tickets.......
How many managers move clubs and then take their backroom staff with them?
It's not a slur on the previous encumbents it's just what the new manager wants.
But the new manager hasn't been appointed yet. Prothero isn't full time or an executive.
Yet we're still ticking over - even with a bit of plate spinning behind the scenes.
No collapse of operations - indeed Valley Express was at record levels for the Barnsley game and is operating tomorrow, ticket deals are still there and being taken up, players are coming and going, wages are being paid, the floodlights still work, the concession stand and club shop are still trading, the box office is still sending out tickets.......
For all the reasons set out above and hopefully this will continue, although for the record I planned the Barnsley Valley Express, Wendy doesn't leave the club staff until Thursday and all the ticket offers are as per my proposals. And the shop is outsourced.
I wish you and others could explain me exactly what is so positive about losing senior and capable people who give 120%, create the "vacuum at senior levels", and then fanny around for several months before finally going to the expense of hiring recruitment consultants. It shows they got rid of good people without having the faintest idea how to get better people.
Perhaps the new owners came in when the club was in utter disarray, plumbing new depths and thought, something needs to change if this is to improve.
Perhaps they felt the 'senior level' people might be in some way responsible?
They have taken time and seen what needs to change, and made changes. Obviously this would upset friends of the people involved, but does that necessarily make it, objectively, a bad thing?
Did each of these former employees arrive fully skilled-up? No, they learned on the job, by and large. So recruiting replacements with carefully selected skills maybe shouldn't automatically be feared.
I'm not sure 'people who give 120%' lends your argument any gravitas. Going forward
After two years of watching closely how the existing management team operated, it's obvious to me that the new owners doubted their ability to move the Club forward, despite their history and passion for the Club. That's their decision.
What grates is the way they've got rid of those existing employees. It might be 'smart management' and save the Club money - but it's arrogant, disrespectful and just not the right thing to do. The worst face of 'management'. Gone are the days of the philantropic businessman.
Last two times I hired a senior manager I went to a recruitment specialist in the field. They basically went out and found suitable candidates and then sorted the wheat from the chaff and left me with a decision on which of the four best candidates I should hire. Saved me a lot of time and cost me three months salary of the new manager. Both times it was worth every penny.
I think Chris's situation has been thoroughly explored on here already.
Quite understand some of the views on here re change at the club. We all want to be optimistic about the future and I'll be as pleased as anyone if everything works out for the best for the club, regardless of where that leaves me, whether you choose to believe that or not.
And that's before we get to Chris Powell's situation.
Airman, can we cut to the chase - what is "Chris Powells situation"?
That is exactly the point I was making earlier! Bloody infuriating!
"I know something you don't, but I'm not telling"
Airman has explained why he can't say at this point in time as it may affect any appeal process which he will be able to take forward to a tribunal. Now that may be "bloody infuriating" as you put but you obviously would affect him progression it further should he decide to take it forward.
I think Chris's situation has been thoroughly explored on here already.
Quite understand some of the views on here re change at the club. We all want to be optimistic about the future and I'll be as pleased as anyone if everything works out for the best for the club, regardless of where that leaves me, whether you choose to believe that or not.
If what has been said on here about Powells situation is true then I would have expected him to leave some weeks ago.Untenable springs to mind.
And that's before we get to Chris Powell's situation.
Airman, can we cut to the chase - what is "Chris Powells situation"?
That is exactly the point I was making earlier! Bloody infuriating!
"I know something you don't, but I'm not telling"
Airman has explained why he can't say at this point in time as it may affect any appeal process which he will be able to take forward to a tribunal. Now that may be "bloody infuriating" as you put but you obviously would affect him progression it further should he decide to take it forward.
If that is true fair enough but any good solicitor would be telling him to say nothing rather than insinute that there are many problems at the club
I think Chris's situation has been thoroughly explored on here already.
Quite understand some of the views on here re change at the club. We all want to be optimistic about the future and I'll be as pleased as anyone if everything works out for the best for the club, regardless of where that leaves me, whether you choose to believe that or not.
I doubt if any/many on here truly doubt that Airman. Your record at and for Charlton as an employee and as a fan is beyond question. All those on here (me, Rodney, Addicted, Arthur) are doing is pointing out that not everything happening at the club need be taken as a negative. I hope you do get a chance to appeal. Any decent disciplinary process ought to include such a step.
Airman could I ask a question about the Valley Express operation? From what you have said it would appear that it runs at a loss, is that purely on the cost of the coaches against the prices fans pay for their seats on them, or is that also including the ( presumed) extra revenue from increased match ticket sales? Surely the Valley Express coaches bring in the support of people who may not be able or may not bother to go to matches without that service? I am not after information if it is confidential, I am just interested as a Valley Express user myself because it seems to me that it is a service that enables a lot of older fans to get to matches, and of course, young supporters like me ;-)
Valley Express loses money and more money the more successful it is, but this is heavily offset by the associated ticket revenue. The risk of increasing the fare to notional break even is that 1) your costs don't go down with demand and 2) you potentially lose the ticket revenue as well as the fare of anyone you price out. But I am not saying there is no scope going forward to change the fare. Taken together the two coach services lost about £20k last year.
Thanks for the reply,Airman. So it has some losses in operation, but overall generates enough revenue to make it a productive exercise.
And that's before we get to Chris Powell's situation.
Airman, can we cut to the chase - what is "Chris Powells situation"?
That is exactly the point I was making earlier! Bloody infuriating!
"I know something you don't, but I'm not telling"
Airman has explained why he can't say at this point in time as it may affect any appeal process which he will be able to take forward to a tribunal. Now that may be "bloody infuriating" as you put but you obviously would affect him progression it further should he decide to take it forward.
If that is true fair enough but any good solicitor would be telling him to say nothing rather than insinute that there are many problems at the club
Hmm... "I know something you don't, but I'm not telling" is a pretty popular type post on this site, I'd say. I think the "guilty parties" know who they are. :-)
And that's before we get to Chris Powell's situation.
Airman, can we cut to the chase - what is "Chris Powells situation"?
That is exactly the point I was making earlier! Bloody infuriating!
"I know something you don't, but I'm not telling"
Airman has explained why he can't say at this point in time as it may affect any appeal process which he will be able to take forward to a tribunal. Now that may be "bloody infuriating" as you put but you obviously would affect him progression it further should he decide to take it forward.
But he's got plenty to say about 'part time prothero' and the rest of the SMT.can't see that talking about Powell Is any different.
Powell's been discussed endlessly on here. Airman can't help it if none of you want to listen.
Re the senior management team, what's glaringly obvious to me is that Prothero is not running the club. He may well have been hire to restructure the club, but right now he has holes everywhere and seemingly little idea how to fill them.
I'd like those challenging Airman and in particular Prague to consider this: how significant to recent years was the lack of strategy for replacing Curbs? I'd say it was critical, and had we actually planned for his succession properly we might still be plying our trade in the Premiership.
And so it is with the senior management team. We should be alarmed by what Airman is saying. If people fulfilling key and strategic roles are afforded no opportunity for a handover then we can conclude that very little planning has gone into the management structure. And what sort of review was undertaken that appears to have discovered little detail about the current operation to inform the conclusions drawn about the best route for the future?
What's happened is that Jiminez has succeeded in removing the people that brought the very challenge he needs - and of course the cash, more on that in a sec. Now it's pretty much his baby, and slowly but surely the organisation will take on his personality as it does with any such business led by people who won't be challenged. He will continue to make decisions that mortgage the club's future with no-one to question the wisdom. If it succeeds he'll be hailed the hero he craves - if he fails, well he may be a poorer fellow for it but the club will be in the gutter, and possibly worse off than before.
To me this hints at one reason why Cash might have withdrawn. Where his investment was initially in a 5 year development plan, all of a sudden it's a much more risky proposition and perhaps insufficient control over the club to justify it.
There have been warning signs for months. Many on here have chosen to overlook them because what's happening on the pitch is positive. But we should heed these signs. 1984 wasn't that long ago and it was a long, dark road back - and Prague and Airman know that as well as anyone on here.
Quite understand some of the views on here re change at the club. We all want to be optimistic about the future and I'll be as pleased as anyone if everything works out for the best for the club, regardless of where that leaves me, whether you choose to believe that or not.
Comments
One other view could be that there is a lot of shit stirring going on by people with personal agendas.
Me? Well, I guess I'm just complacent and don't care.
Rodney, im with you all the way.
Airman please in that case tell us your side of the story
I am still waiting to hear if the club will allow me to appeal against their decision of October 17th, so pending that I am not able to discuss the detail.
Half expect the EastEnders duff duff's after some of his cliffhangers!
So where are we 5 years on? Well with a fear of losing more jobs people are going the xtra mile. We now have less than 60 employees.
Our output has increased by 50%!
Now it's not as complicated as organising coaches or making sure the dunnys are clean but its a pretty close second. The harsh world of business Im afraid.
What grates is the way they've got rid of those existing employees. It might be 'smart management' and save the Club money - but it's arrogant, disrespectful and just not the right thing to do. The worst face of 'management'. Gone are the days of the philantropic businessman.
Last two times I hired a senior manager I went to a recruitment specialist in the field. They basically went out and found suitable candidates and then sorted the wheat from the chaff and left me with a decision on which of the four best candidates I should hire. Saved me a lot of time and cost me three months salary of the new manager. Both times it was worth every penny.
No collapse of operations - indeed Valley Express was at record levels for the Barnsley game and is operating tomorrow, ticket deals are still there and being taken up, players are coming and going, wages are being paid, the floodlights still work, the concession stand and club shop are still trading, the box office is still sending out tickets.......
Yes things to appear to be ticking over. In fact we got promoted under the old management which begs the question "why change a winning team?".
Perhaps they felt the 'senior level' people might be in some way responsible?
They have taken time and seen what needs to change, and made changes. Obviously this would upset friends of the people involved, but does that necessarily make it, objectively, a bad thing?
Did each of these former employees arrive fully skilled-up? No, they learned on the job, by and large. So recruiting replacements with carefully selected skills maybe shouldn't automatically be feared.
I'm not sure 'people who give 120%' lends your argument any gravitas. Going forward
Quite understand some of the views on here re change at the club. We all want to be optimistic about the future and I'll be as pleased as anyone if everything works out for the best for the club, regardless of where that leaves me, whether you choose to believe that or not.
And that's before we get to Chris Powell's situation.
Airman, can we cut to the chase - what is "Chris Powells situation"?
That is exactly the point I was making earlier! Bloody infuriating!
"I know something you don't, but I'm not telling"
Airman has explained why he can't say at this point in time as it may affect any appeal process which he will be able to take forward to a tribunal. Now that may be "bloody infuriating" as you put but you obviously would affect him progression it further should he decide to take it forward.
If that is true fair enough but any good solicitor would be telling him to say nothing rather than insinute that there are many problems at the club
So it has some losses in operation, but overall generates enough revenue to make it a productive exercise.
It's worse than Reg calling me John
JohnAddicKtedRe the senior management team, what's glaringly obvious to me is that Prothero is not running the club. He may well have been hire to restructure the club, but right now he has holes everywhere and seemingly little idea how to fill them.
I'd like those challenging Airman and in particular Prague to consider this: how significant to recent years was the lack of strategy for replacing Curbs? I'd say it was critical, and had we actually planned for his succession properly we might still be plying our trade in the Premiership.
And so it is with the senior management team. We should be alarmed by what Airman is saying. If people fulfilling key and strategic roles are afforded no opportunity for a handover then we can conclude that very little planning has gone into the management structure. And what sort of review was undertaken that appears to have discovered little detail about the current operation to inform the conclusions drawn about the best route for the future?
What's happened is that Jiminez has succeeded in removing the people that brought the very challenge he needs - and of course the cash, more on that in a sec. Now it's pretty much his baby, and slowly but surely the organisation will take on his personality as it does with any such business led by people who won't be challenged. He will continue to make decisions that mortgage the club's future with no-one to question the wisdom. If it succeeds he'll be hailed the hero he craves - if he fails, well he may be a poorer fellow for it but the club will be in the gutter, and possibly worse off than before.
To me this hints at one reason why Cash might have withdrawn. Where his investment was initially in a 5 year development plan, all of a sudden it's a much more risky proposition and perhaps insufficient control over the club to justify it.
There have been warning signs for months. Many on here have chosen to overlook them because what's happening on the pitch is positive. But we should heed these signs. 1984 wasn't that long ago and it was a long, dark road back - and Prague and Airman know that as well as anyone on here.
Quite understand some of the views on here re change at the club. We all want to be optimistic about the future and I'll be as pleased as anyone if everything works out for the best for the club, regardless of where that leaves me, whether you choose to believe that or not.
Amen to that, Airman.