[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]reality check: the current Board just aren't interested, they want out, the coffers are dry - the Forum is probably just an irritation.
Sadly I think you have hit the nail on the head Razil, whilst I think AFKA's post was superb and its the sort of "chest thumping" us fans respond too, the board see it differently, they will be hoping we get off to a good start and the teams performances generate the interest to put bums on seats, but as we all know too well that is a dangerous game to play and the fan base will dwindle away.
Not a mini rant, AFKA, truly a maxi one and one which MUST ( plus your following post) be forwarded to Stephen K, Muzza and anyone else who might listen .
I charge any true Addick to disagree with the valid & pressing points you list .
This should be sent to The Newsshopper and allied SE London/Kent papers with a request to print and to ask for all those in agreement with the concerns & requests for some urgent, constructive response from the Club, to sign an online petition. And to individually write to the Club in the same vein....
I believe our Club is indeed at the crossroads and this may be one way in which we can draw our worries for the future to the ears & eyes of those "in charge".
I intend to use AFKA's piece in my upcoming newsletter to NWKA members ( if he consents ) in an effort to reach those who may be without access to online news etc.
Any more suggestions out there ? We cannot let this great piece from "our Leader" slip by without using it as a vehicle for trying to get the Club on our wavelength....
What Charlton appear to really need right now ...... is a reborn, energised, fully focused and motivated Supporters Club - working in tandem with a high ranking club official/employee.
And AFKA's rant and follow up could be a good agenda and starting point for this combined club and supporters initiative.
Forget it Oggy - the various supporters club groups are too interested in splitting into factions and throwing stones at each other whilst the rest of us stand back and wonder wtf they're doing. Sad, but there you go.
I'm with Razil, you have a main board who have been looking to sell for 2 years and probably hated every journey to The Valley last year knowing how much it's costing them personally.
Until they go and fresh faces (ie:money) come in, it's as foggy and deathly as the smoke around Curb_it. . . .
PS: WE HAVE BEEN 'AT THE CROSSROADS' FOR AGES NOW.
Question 2 of Henry's on post 22 is the question that has to be asked. So many clubs in this country have a points based system for away games and big cup games yet fans who had been to every away game this season couldn't get a ticket for Swindon away in the Playoffs because someone who hasn't even been to The Valley for 5 years decides they want to go. Not fair. Not good enough.
I'd also like to know where they see the club or would like to see the club in 5 years time?
What they are going to bring fans back to The Valley?
Is there interest from any external parties looking to add further financial investment into the football club?
I guess I've been struggling to make the point ... but let me try again:
AFKA's 'rant' is wonderful ... but it merely poses the questions.
The Club wants ideas, proposals, suggestions. Not questions.
Today's action - which saw the excellent Curb_It and the wonderful guinessaddick contact people at Derby County and Coventry regarding smoking is a great example of the way it will have to be. Using the energy and enthusiasm of the fanbase, not relying on the Club or others to do it.
Now re-read AFKA's piece and decide what fans can do to answer those questions ... and who among us will do it.
Fair point Dave, but you know as well as I that the fans cannot make certain changes or influence them when it comes to internal matters regarding things such as the ticket allocation, continual catering problems and retail issues. This is begining to sound like a French Follie.
Funny how those at the top of football clubs like to talk about their "product", getting maximum TV revenues, selling every conceivable scrap of advertising, etc, etc, but when the shit hits the fan they want "ideas, proposals, suggestions. Not questions" from their customers to sort the mess out.
And we take it because, deep down, we know that this is a one-way relationship that we will NEVER come out best in.
[cite]Posted By: Telnotinoz[/cite]Fair point Dave, but you know as well as I that the fans cannot make certain changes or influence them when it comes to internal matters regarding things such as the ticket allocation, continual catering problems and retail issues. This is begining to sound like a French Follie.
True enough, Tel. But AFKA doesn't talk about tickets, catering or retail.
He talks about matters that fans can have a direct influence in. And for those who criticise the Club for having such expectations of their 'customers' ... I have to say that I agree with you.
And, we can leave it there ... each consoling ourselves that we are in the right ... and nothing changes.
[cite]Posted By: Dave Rudd[/cite]I guess I've been struggling to make the point ... but let me try again:
AFKA's 'rant' is wonderful ... but it merely poses the questions.
The Club wants ideas, proposals, suggestions. Not questions.
Today's action - which saw the excellent Curb_It and the wonderful guinessaddick contact people at Derby County and Coventry regarding smoking is a great example of the way it will have to be. Using the energy and enthusiasm of the fanbase, not relying on the Club or others to do it.
Now re-read AFKA's piece and decide what fans can do to answer those questions ... and who among us will do it.
So what do the people who get paid at the club do then?
Its like me saying to all my clients: "I'm not going to do anything actually guys, can you just do all the legwork, sort out all of the problems and come up with contingency plans and then give me a big wad of cash for the privilege"
Excuse my language but that is f*cking pathetic.
That being said, I do find it staggering that the club has that attitude (if they indeed do) as I thought they were all fans like us?
I only know what I have read on here about the fans' forum meeting, but I know there is general acknowledgement within the club that the relationship with the fans has degraded and that we need to put that right. It has always been my view that the fans' forum should meet managers rather than directors or the chief exec, because it is the managers who can answer the questions. For example, it's highly unlikely non-exec directors or the chief exec/MD would know the ins and outs of the rules regarding smoking or the licensing/safety/legal issues that surround it.
Bear in mind that there are still plenty of fans in senior positions on the staff, including Mick Everett, Matt Wright, Chris Parkes, Dave Archer, Wendy Perfect and myself. It's also wrong to assume that those who didn't start out as Charlton fans have no feeling for the club. Equally we mustn't assume that because we're fans we know everything that concerns all sections of supporters. That's one reason I read this board and post on here.
All I can say at this point is that the issue of the relationship with the fans is well understood and will be a priority next season. We can't give you answers about the medium term future of the club and I am not sure that directors can either. Staff would like to know too. But staff can and will engage better on operational issues. It's in everyone's interest that happens.
[cite]Posted By: falconwood_1[/cite]I'm with Razil, you have a main board who have been looking to sell for 2 years and probably hated every journey to The Valley last year knowing how much it's costing them personally.
Until they go and fresh faces (ie:money) come in, it's as foggy and deathly as the smoke around Curb_it. . . .
PS: WE HAVE BEEN 'AT THE CROSSROADS' FOR AGES NOW.[div class=Attachments id=Attachments_720558][ul][div]benny.jpg[/div][/ul][/div]
Thing is Benny went missing for years. He was sent out toget a spanner, however they are not in our league.
[cite]Posted By: Telnotinoz[/cite]Fair point Dave, but you know as well as I that the fans cannot make certain changes or influence them when it comes to internal matters regarding things such as the ticket allocation, continual catering problems and retail issues. This is begining to sound like a French Follie.
True enough, Tel. But AFKA doesn't talk about tickets, catering or retail.
He talks about matters that fans can have a direct influence in. And for those who criticise the Club for having such expectations of their 'customers' ... I have to say that I agree with you.
And, we can leave it there ... each consoling ourselves that we are in the right ... and nothing changes.
Is that what we want?
like you Dave, I don't necessarily want to be right, but I do want our club to prosper, I want the fans in general to unite, but quite how we achieve that in relation to how the club has been structured is beyond me
Without being arrogant Charlton need to remind every one locally what a big club we are. We are a big club at this level and bar Sheffield Wednesday are the biggest club in League One. Lets set up something similiar to Target 10,00, say Target 20,000. The Valley Express is an excellent idea so lets use that to branch even further out into our catchment areas. Perhaps the Valley Express should look into branching further into London. We'll still get bigger crowds than Millwall and Palace next year.
Bring back Kids for a Quid days - I understand the clubs financial situation, but there hasn't been enough schemes to get local children/schools/youth centres etc involved in attending football matches in recent years. They are our future fan base. Lets also use our strong community schemes - e.g anti-street crime and anti-racism campaigns - to encourage ethnic minorities - the young, women, and families - into attending football matches. Ethinc minorities have been strongly neglected in this manner by all football clubs not just Charlton. This is a general problem.
Take advantage of the current national interest in football following the World Cup! e.g - "Come and see the future stars of England at The Valley" We have kids in the England youth teams people! Jonjo captained at international level in his time with us and I think i'm right in saying Jordan Cousins does too. Lets get some campaigns going with their faces on. Lets get back into schools. Even Arsenal have been putting stuff round my local schools!
Increase the use of social meda in raising awareness of all this - Twitter, Facebook, YouTube Blogs etc.
Finally a points based system for tickets. All it would need is a simple debit/plastic/Oyster type/loyalty card that can track and record the games all fans have been too. Perhaps bonus points for season ticket holders. Perhaps the Red Card could be used to do this?
Love to what you all think of a few of these ideas I've had of the top of my head.
The Arsenal thing is difficult in as much as I raised this with Steve Waggot, and apparently the training is undertaken by franchisees. All good ideas, but who can action them?
We have 2 young lads come in from the charlton community scheme to teach the young kids once a week, sad thing that even tho were in the heart of charlton out of the 20 plus kids that take part not one wears a charlton kit, few millwall but mainly chelski, man utd and liverpool. The school is given a fair amount of free tickets for 2 maybe 3 games a season. One sad point my sister works at another school in charlton and one game either last or season before were selected to play some music on the pitch before the game, no comp tickets were given to family memembers or carrers, they were told they would have to buy tickets.. the boys and girls in my school are football mad it would take one assembly with a few first team players, a few free teeshirts or posters and you could easily turn them into addicks. It dosnt cost a penny to raise awarness in the local community, I remember my dad doing a sponserd walk with the whole first team from the valley to welling for chairty back in early 90's, were charlton we have never been a club where the players are 'untouchable' but sadly seems to be the way the odd shirt signing during the school holidays isint enough. Get them out doing stuff for damezla house get them down the schools and youth clubs, meet and greets in blue water or whever, and when there's the danson park show or charlton horne fayre send some real players along not just an inflatable goal and community workers.
[cite]Posted By: adamtheaddick[/cite]We have 2 young lads come in from the charlton community scheme to teach the young kids once a week, sad thing that even tho were in the heart of charlton out of the 20 plus kids that take part not one wears a charlton kit, few millwall but mainly chelski, man utd and liverpool. The school is given a fair amount of free tickets for 2 maybe 3 games a season. One sad point my sister works at another school in charlton and one game either last or season before were selected to play some music on the pitch before the game, no comp tickets were given to family memembers or carrers, they were told they would have to buy tickets.. the boys and girls in my school are football mad it would take one assembly with a few first team players, a few free teeshirts or posters and you could easily turn them into addicks. It dosnt cost a penny to raise awarness in the local community, I remember my dad doing a sponserd walk with the whole first team from the valley to welling for chairty back in early 90's, were charlton we have never been a club where the players are 'untouchable' but sadly seems to be the way the odd shirt signing during the school holidays isint enough. Get them out doing stuff for damezla house get them down the schools and youth clubs, meet and greets in blue water or whever, and when there's the danson park show or charlton horne fayre send some real players along not just an inflatable goal and community workers.
The problem with the points bases system is that however the club decide to allocate points will determine who gets priority. For example a home season ticket should be worth something, five away games? Ten away games? One away game? On the bases that the cub makes no money from away games they should give more credibility to season tickets, no? What about Valley Gold? Do we go back five years for season ticket ownership? What about those that had a season ticket at Selhurst Park? Do they count more?
The issue with Swindon, which I accept was wrong, could never have appeased everyone, so why would the club want to bother if they are going to be critised by one group or another?
I, personally, don't think that a fan that has been to ten home games and ten away games and doesn't have a season ticket should get priority over someone that has a season ticket and has been to five away games. I know others don't agree with that, but that is a decision the club have to make.
With the general population of the fans being angry with the board, who this season stumped up three and a half times the revenue from season tickets from their own money, why should they give a crap what we want? Why should they continue to hold meetings with a group of fans that seem to always turn up and point the finger at them and moan and complain?
It's alright for us to keep posting lists of demands, and we all feel unhappy and upset about our demise since the Premier League, but it's probably stopped being fun for the board and it is costing them a fortune to bank role the club. In all honesty if I was a director, in to the club for millions of pounds of my own money, and all I ever seemed to hear was demands for more and more then I'd probably send the FF away and ask them to have a good look at themselves and come back when they have something more to offer than questions.
This is, in no way, a criticism of the members of the FF, but I think the truth is that we all need to take a good look at ourselves and decide if what we are asking for is reasonable, or not.
[cite]Posted By: kings hill addick[/cite] In all honesty if I was a director in to the club for millions of pounds of my own money and all I ever seemed to hear was demands for more and more then I'd probably send the FF away and ask them to have a good look at themselves and come back when they have something more to offer that questions.
This is, in no way, a criticism of the members of the FF, but I think the truth is that we all need to take a good look at ourselves and decide if what we are asking for is reasonable, or not.
I think you miss the very same point that the Club seems to miss.
When the Fans' Forum posed questions on behalf of the fans, it's important to look beyond the specifics. It's about identifying the areas for improvement, the aspects which are not operating as well as they might.
When we spoke about value for money of the non-football management staff, the issue wasn't about Steve Waggott or Steve Kavanagh or what their salaries might have been. It was about highlighting areas which fans had identified as 'not being right' in their humble opinions. And, when fans want to find ways of giving money to the Club that they love, it's about being re-assured that their contributions would not simply go down the drain.
When we spoke about catering, it wasn't about pink sausages or about long queues for beer at half-time. It was about the fact that the Club is missing out on revenue - and losing customer goodwill. The same goes for smoking.
Our questions were generally the way of highlighting the issues as fans see them. When you try to solve a problem, it's always a good idea to be clear what problem you are trying to solve. To expect fans, or the Fans' Forum itself, to provide suggested solutions is asking for a great deal more than most of us can commit to.
Sadly, people seem to get stuck on the specifics rather than take in the big picture. If I've learned one thing about this Club in my time with the Fans' Forum it's that the word 'strategy' seems to apply to a period of no greater than one year, but I may be being unkind.
this thread has become a pretty depressing read. Agree with what AFKA said entirely. Whatever the fans may try to do, whatever we can do to help you still need people at the Club with sufficient drive to take these things on and ultimately implement them. There are some still at the Club willing and able to do this but maybe not enough and at the very top it is percieved that they have had enough, have done their bit and are just waiting to get out and let someone else have a go. The whole Club needs reinvigorating and maybe only a change of ownership will ultimately bring this about.
Sorry Dave, but the impression that I get is that a large proportion of the issues raised by the fans are aimed at improving their match day experience rather than helping the directors recoup their investments.
I'm not saying that it should necessarily be any different, but from what I remember of the FF since its inception it seems to be a conduit for fans to ask, no demand, for answers. I'm also thinking of the 'document' that demanded that the board share their strategic forecasts and plans.
Rightly or wrongly, the impression I have of the FF is that it, and therefore the fans that that it represents, have an inflated opinion of it's (their) importance.
If all the fans had refused to come to one game last season we would have had to sell two or three players. If the board had refused to put in £7m we would probably have had to sell The Valley and/or go into administration.
I seriously doubt that the FF (the fans) identify many issues that the club are not aware of. The issue seems, to me, that the club just can't afford to implement what we need.
I always suspected that the success of FF would depend on the success of the team on the pitch. Strangely there were few complaints about getting served beer when we were in the Premier League, yet now it seems to be a big issue.
As I say Dave, I have complete respect for the job that you and your colleagues have tried to do, but there can only be so many times a group that you 'choose' to work with criticises you before you ask them to not bother coming back.
Seriously, I have re-read AFKA's piece , Dave and asked myself " What can fans do to answer those questions ? " Sadly, the answer has to be "very little ". We have no input into the shape of the playing squad nor the wage structure within it -but the majority of questions posed are basically about levels of support and what can be done to raise this.
Of course, the make up of next season's squad & the outcome/quality of games will have a large impact on whether walk up fans come to matches at The Valley or not . Success breeds success. But with the number of season tickets sold looking to be the lowest for some considerable time plus the knowledge that matchday receipts play a large part in balancing the books, surely there must be a plan from within the Club to address this issue...
We've spoken on here in the past about encouraging friends & family to attend games, to offer "spare" season tickets to the same and I'm pretty sure this is something we all try to get involved with. But plainly that's not nearly enough . Inevitably, dangling a carrot by some kind of financial means would appear to be a popular suggestion , as in Kids for a Quid as others have stated. Or by a financial incentive to those season ticket holders who bring along A N Other, who buys a season ticket too at some point in the season - possibly Club Shop vouchers which mean the money is ploughed back into the Club. Nothing I've outlined here is a new idea but MUST come from within the Club. We can merely support any such incentives to the best of our ability....
The only other " drive to energise support " that draws on exercises used in the past, is an Open Day at The Training Ground which was very well attended in years gone by. Players mingling with supporters, signing autographs, having photos taken, taking part in a cricket match etc etc. The Chairman & possibly "celebrity Addicks" and members of the '98 Play Off Final team could say a few words from the stage - a rallying call. Raffle a few season tickets, shirts , memorabilia , sell refreshments & Shirt Sponsorship maybe ....Make total use of the day using volunteer supporters to do whatever jobs they can assist with - I know I'd be one of the first to offer my time, and gladly .We have the facility - why not utilise it during the close season ?
I'm guessing that this idea also has been mooted time & time again and that the answer now would be that there isn't sufficient time in which to organise it before the season starts . But it's worth a try.
I was pleased to read Airman's post indicating that the powers that be are aware of the need to foster a stronger relationship with supporters but this must grow with better communication . And certainly with suggestions from committed, well meaning fans who absolutely have the welfare & future of their Club uppermost in their hearts & minds, being treated with respect and a response- whether it be via the FF or via an email to Club management .Otherwise those willing to take up their "sword" in the name of CAFC will shrug their shoulders in future , saying " there's nothing we can do to change things" like many others are saying now....
And Airman is the man to testify that nothing is impossible when fans really care & are determined to go that extra mile. We do, don't we ?
[quote][cite]Posted By: kings hill addick[/cite]Sorry Dave, but the impression that I get is that a large proportion of the issues raised by the fans are aimed at improving their match day experience rather than helping the directors recoup their investments.
I'm not saying that it should necessarily be any different, but from what I remember of the FF since its inception it seems to be a conduit for fans to ask, no demand, for answers. I'm also thinking of the 'document' that demanded that the board share their strategic forecasts and plans.
Rightly or wrongly, the impression I have of the FF is that it, and therefore the fans that that it represents, have an inflated opinion of it's (their) importance.
If all the fans had refused to come to one game last season we would have had to sell two or three players. If the board had refused to put in £7m we would probably have had to sell The Valley and/or go into administration.
I seriously doubt that the FF (the fans) identify many issues that the club are not aware of. The issue seems, to me, that the club just can't afford to implement what we need.
I always suspected that the success of FF would depend on the success of the team on the pitch. Strangely there were few complaints about getting served beer when we were in the Premier League, yet now it seems to be a big issue.
As I say Dave, I have complete respect for the job that you and your colleagues have tried to do, but there can only be so many times a group that you 'choose' to work with criticises you before you ask them to not bother coming back.[/quote]
I won't answer the specific points you make - I'm done with that now. But let me ask you this ... for all the shortcomings that you attribute to the Fans' Forum, what would you have done?
Not ask for strategic forecasts and plans?
Not try to emphasise which of the issues (of which all fans and the Club are abundantly aware) should be given highest priority?
Not gone back with recurring questions after having been pacified with half answers?
Comments
Sadly I think you have hit the nail on the head Razil, whilst I think AFKA's post was superb and its the sort of "chest thumping" us fans respond too, the board see it differently, they will be hoping we get off to a good start and the teams performances generate the interest to put bums on seats, but as we all know too well that is a dangerous game to play and the fan base will dwindle away.
I charge any true Addick to disagree with the valid & pressing points you list .
This should be sent to The Newsshopper and allied SE London/Kent papers with a request to print and to ask for all those in agreement with the concerns & requests for some urgent, constructive response from the Club, to sign an online petition. And to individually write to the Club in the same vein....
I believe our Club is indeed at the crossroads and this may be one way in which we can draw our worries for the future to the ears & eyes of those "in charge".
I intend to use AFKA's piece in my upcoming newsletter to NWKA members ( if he consents ) in an effort to reach those who may be without access to online news etc.
Any more suggestions out there ? We cannot let this great piece from "our Leader" slip by without using it as a vehicle for trying to get the Club on our wavelength....
And AFKA's rant and follow up could be a good agenda and starting point for this combined club and supporters initiative.
Until they go and fresh faces (ie:money) come in, it's as foggy and deathly as the smoke around Curb_it. . . .
PS: WE HAVE BEEN 'AT THE CROSSROADS' FOR AGES NOW.
I'd also like to know where they see the club or would like to see the club in 5 years time?
What they are going to bring fans back to The Valley?
Is there interest from any external parties looking to add further financial investment into the football club?
How close are we to administration?
AFKA's 'rant' is wonderful ... but it merely poses the questions.
The Club wants ideas, proposals, suggestions. Not questions.
Today's action - which saw the excellent Curb_It and the wonderful guinessaddick contact people at Derby County and Coventry regarding smoking is a great example of the way it will have to be. Using the energy and enthusiasm of the fanbase, not relying on the Club or others to do it.
Now re-read AFKA's piece and decide what fans can do to answer those questions ... and who among us will do it.
And we take it because, deep down, we know that this is a one-way relationship that we will NEVER come out best in.
True enough, Tel. But AFKA doesn't talk about tickets, catering or retail.
He talks about matters that fans can have a direct influence in. And for those who criticise the Club for having such expectations of their 'customers' ... I have to say that I agree with you.
And, we can leave it there ... each consoling ourselves that we are in the right ... and nothing changes.
Is that what we want?
Its like me saying to all my clients: "I'm not going to do anything actually guys, can you just do all the legwork, sort out all of the problems and come up with contingency plans and then give me a big wad of cash for the privilege"
Excuse my language but that is f*cking pathetic.
That being said, I do find it staggering that the club has that attitude (if they indeed do) as I thought they were all fans like us?
Bear in mind that there are still plenty of fans in senior positions on the staff, including Mick Everett, Matt Wright, Chris Parkes, Dave Archer, Wendy Perfect and myself. It's also wrong to assume that those who didn't start out as Charlton fans have no feeling for the club. Equally we mustn't assume that because we're fans we know everything that concerns all sections of supporters. That's one reason I read this board and post on here.
All I can say at this point is that the issue of the relationship with the fans is well understood and will be a priority next season. We can't give you answers about the medium term future of the club and I am not sure that directors can either. Staff would like to know too. But staff can and will engage better on operational issues. It's in everyone's interest that happens.
Thing is Benny went missing for years. He was sent out toget a spanner, however they are not in our league.
like you Dave, I don't necessarily want to be right, but I do want our club to prosper, I want the fans in general to unite, but quite how we achieve that in relation to how the club has been structured is beyond me
Bring back Kids for a Quid days - I understand the clubs financial situation, but there hasn't been enough schemes to get local children/schools/youth centres etc involved in attending football matches in recent years. They are our future fan base. Lets also use our strong community schemes - e.g anti-street crime and anti-racism campaigns - to encourage ethnic minorities - the young, women, and families - into attending football matches. Ethinc minorities have been strongly neglected in this manner by all football clubs not just Charlton. This is a general problem.
Take advantage of the current national interest in football following the World Cup! e.g - "Come and see the future stars of England at The Valley" We have kids in the England youth teams people! Jonjo captained at international level in his time with us and I think i'm right in saying Jordan Cousins does too. Lets get some campaigns going with their faces on. Lets get back into schools. Even Arsenal have been putting stuff round my local schools!
Increase the use of social meda in raising awareness of all this - Twitter, Facebook, YouTube Blogs etc.
Finally a points based system for tickets. All it would need is a simple debit/plastic/Oyster type/loyalty card that can track and record the games all fans have been too. Perhaps bonus points for season ticket holders. Perhaps the Red Card could be used to do this?
Love to what you all think of a few of these ideas I've had of the top of my head.
How about 3 for a win, 1 for a draw and nothing if you lose. Do you think it will catch on?
Brilliant post.
The issue with Swindon, which I accept was wrong, could never have appeased everyone, so why would the club want to bother if they are going to be critised by one group or another?
I, personally, don't think that a fan that has been to ten home games and ten away games and doesn't have a season ticket should get priority over someone that has a season ticket and has been to five away games. I know others don't agree with that, but that is a decision the club have to make.
With the general population of the fans being angry with the board, who this season stumped up three and a half times the revenue from season tickets from their own money, why should they give a crap what we want? Why should they continue to hold meetings with a group of fans that seem to always turn up and point the finger at them and moan and complain?
It's alright for us to keep posting lists of demands, and we all feel unhappy and upset about our demise since the Premier League, but it's probably stopped being fun for the board and it is costing them a fortune to bank role the club. In all honesty if I was a director, in to the club for millions of pounds of my own money, and all I ever seemed to hear was demands for more and more then I'd probably send the FF away and ask them to have a good look at themselves and come back when they have something more to offer than questions.
This is, in no way, a criticism of the members of the FF, but I think the truth is that we all need to take a good look at ourselves and decide if what we are asking for is reasonable, or not.
I think you miss the very same point that the Club seems to miss.
When the Fans' Forum posed questions on behalf of the fans, it's important to look beyond the specifics. It's about identifying the areas for improvement, the aspects which are not operating as well as they might.
When we spoke about value for money of the non-football management staff, the issue wasn't about Steve Waggott or Steve Kavanagh or what their salaries might have been. It was about highlighting areas which fans had identified as 'not being right' in their humble opinions. And, when fans want to find ways of giving money to the Club that they love, it's about being re-assured that their contributions would not simply go down the drain.
When we spoke about catering, it wasn't about pink sausages or about long queues for beer at half-time. It was about the fact that the Club is missing out on revenue - and losing customer goodwill. The same goes for smoking.
Our questions were generally the way of highlighting the issues as fans see them. When you try to solve a problem, it's always a good idea to be clear what problem you are trying to solve. To expect fans, or the Fans' Forum itself, to provide suggested solutions is asking for a great deal more than most of us can commit to.
Sadly, people seem to get stuck on the specifics rather than take in the big picture. If I've learned one thing about this Club in my time with the Fans' Forum it's that the word 'strategy' seems to apply to a period of no greater than one year, but I may be being unkind.
I'm not saying that it should necessarily be any different, but from what I remember of the FF since its inception it seems to be a conduit for fans to ask, no demand, for answers. I'm also thinking of the 'document' that demanded that the board share their strategic forecasts and plans.
Rightly or wrongly, the impression I have of the FF is that it, and therefore the fans that that it represents, have an inflated opinion of it's (their) importance.
If all the fans had refused to come to one game last season we would have had to sell two or three players. If the board had refused to put in £7m we would probably have had to sell The Valley and/or go into administration.
I seriously doubt that the FF (the fans) identify many issues that the club are not aware of. The issue seems, to me, that the club just can't afford to implement what we need.
I always suspected that the success of FF would depend on the success of the team on the pitch. Strangely there were few complaints about getting served beer when we were in the Premier League, yet now it seems to be a big issue.
As I say Dave, I have complete respect for the job that you and your colleagues have tried to do, but there can only be so many times a group that you 'choose' to work with criticises you before you ask them to not bother coming back.
Sadly, the answer has to be "very little ". We have no input into the shape of the playing squad nor the wage structure within it -but the majority of questions posed are basically about levels of support and what can be done to raise this.
Of course, the make up of next season's squad & the outcome/quality of games will have a large impact on whether walk up fans come to matches at The Valley or not . Success breeds success. But with the number of season tickets sold looking to be the lowest for some considerable time plus the knowledge that matchday receipts play a large part in balancing the books, surely there must be a plan from within the Club to address this issue...
We've spoken on here in the past about encouraging friends & family to attend games, to offer "spare" season tickets to the same and I'm pretty sure this is something we all try to get involved with. But plainly that's not nearly enough . Inevitably, dangling a carrot by some kind of financial means would appear to be a popular suggestion , as in Kids for a Quid as others have stated. Or by a financial incentive to those season ticket holders who bring along A N Other, who buys a season ticket too at some point in the season - possibly Club Shop vouchers which mean the money is ploughed back into the Club. Nothing I've outlined here is a new idea but MUST come from within the Club. We can merely support any such incentives to the best of our ability....
The only other " drive to energise support " that draws on exercises used in the past, is an Open Day at The Training Ground which was very well attended in years gone by. Players mingling with supporters, signing autographs, having photos taken, taking part in a cricket match etc etc. The Chairman & possibly "celebrity Addicks" and members of the '98 Play Off Final team could say a few words from the stage - a rallying call. Raffle a few season tickets, shirts , memorabilia , sell refreshments & Shirt Sponsorship maybe ....Make total use of the day using volunteer supporters to do whatever jobs they can assist with - I know I'd be one of the first to offer my time, and gladly .We have the facility - why not utilise it during the close season ?
I'm guessing that this idea also has been mooted time & time again and that the answer now would be that there isn't sufficient time in which to organise it before the season starts . But it's worth a try.
I was pleased to read Airman's post indicating that the powers that be are aware of the need to foster a stronger relationship with supporters but this must grow with better communication . And certainly with suggestions from committed, well meaning fans who absolutely have the welfare & future of their Club uppermost in their hearts & minds, being treated with respect and a response- whether it be via the FF or via an email to Club management .Otherwise those willing to take up their "sword" in the name of CAFC will shrug their shoulders in future , saying " there's nothing we can do to change things" like many others are saying now....
And Airman is the man to testify that nothing is impossible when fans really care & are determined to go that extra mile. We do, don't we ?
I'm not saying that it should necessarily be any different, but from what I remember of the FF since its inception it seems to be a conduit for fans to ask, no demand, for answers. I'm also thinking of the 'document' that demanded that the board share their strategic forecasts and plans.
Rightly or wrongly, the impression I have of the FF is that it, and therefore the fans that that it represents, have an inflated opinion of it's (their) importance.
If all the fans had refused to come to one game last season we would have had to sell two or three players. If the board had refused to put in £7m we would probably have had to sell The Valley and/or go into administration.
I seriously doubt that the FF (the fans) identify many issues that the club are not aware of. The issue seems, to me, that the club just can't afford to implement what we need.
I always suspected that the success of FF would depend on the success of the team on the pitch. Strangely there were few complaints about getting served beer when we were in the Premier League, yet now it seems to be a big issue.
As I say Dave, I have complete respect for the job that you and your colleagues have tried to do, but there can only be so many times a group that you 'choose' to work with criticises you before you ask them to not bother coming back.[/quote]
I won't answer the specific points you make - I'm done with that now. But let me ask you this ... for all the shortcomings that you attribute to the Fans' Forum, what would you have done?
Not ask for strategic forecasts and plans?
Not try to emphasise which of the issues (of which all fans and the Club are abundantly aware) should be given highest priority?
Not gone back with recurring questions after having been pacified with half answers?
Or something better? Let's hear it.
" Let's be 'avin you !!! "