Why can't it be done for one stand? I suggest North - if smokers from the West and East want to move there, then there is still time - sod the away fans, they can go cold turkey.
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]Wish i could put across my point as well as that Dan. Shall we write to the club. Just half way through an email to derby county but was hoping dave woudl get back to me with some more details.
I know the FD at Derby, will text him and ask about the smoking area.
why can't people just go an hour and a half without a fag...;o)
if it's gonna cost the club any more money (stewarding etc) then sorry it's a no from me (here speaks a non-smoker in case you didn't guess).....if not, then fine I'm sure it can be organised.
however......even if there was an outside space for a fag, how many from the north upper would bother to walk all the way down to use it - my guess is that most who have a fag in the toilets would just continue to do so in there.
however......even if there was an outside space for a fag, how many from the north upper would bother to walk all the way down to use it - my guess is that most who have a fag in the toilets would just continue to do so in there.
however......even if there was an outside space for a fag, how many from the north upper would bother to walk all the way down to use it - my guess is that most who have a fag in the toilets would just continue to do so in there.
that.
that what?
do you think all smokers are lazy fat bast@ards... plenty already walk to the bottom of the stairs to have one now. take a look at the top if you dont believe me.
Have any of the people on here ever actually spoken to a steward when "fighting their way through the fug"? You will find that they go quickly to address the matter (as it is illegal). Or are you all being standard Lifers and having a good old moan about it but not actually taking any action?
I was just generalising, the toilets to the west stand end of the NU are always full of people having a smoke, I just personally can't see many of them changing their habit even if they could go outside.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Smudge you make some good points, but I am sure you are over simplifying some of the parts re the stewarding. I'll go back to my original point, you cannot do it for one stand only, you do it for all or none. Plus I think people are underestimating the volume of people who would use this facility two stewards would be not nearly enough per stand in my view & probably the clubs as well. However, if someone wants to compile a reasoned argument detailing all the plus points & counter arguing any downsides please e-mail it to Mick.everett@cafc.co.uk & I am sure he'll give it his full attention.[/quote] Kets The east and JSS have open air access where you can wander around without having to reproduce your ticket though, surely if you are 'outside' you can smoke, like pubs?
I dont smoke in the bogs - thats disgusting and unfair on others. i have been spotted down a stair well (only twice have i been brave to do this) breaking the law.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]I dont smoke in the bogs - thats disgusting and unfair on others. i have been spotted down a stair well (only twice have i been brave to do this) breaking the law.
lock me up.[/quote] Ho hum, yes its a stupid law, yes the police should spend their time investigating real crime. But it is a crime and it is the type of thing that the council love to crack down on the club for.
So you stick to smoking where you shouldn't, everyone else stick to moaning and not acting and then we can all continue on with our pointless little gripes.
And if the club ever gets fined? Well, we can all have a jolly good moan about that too.
I can totally see now why the club is asking for more from the FF than just a continuation of this pointless complaining.
To answer Big dave's original question if it was for one stand only then it would be for the West as they pay the most money for their tickets. However, as I said before that would be unfair so the only way to look at it is if we could do it for all stands.
As for some of the moaning above oh dear never mind. If someone would like to compile a considered effort to the club I am pretty sure anything that was workable would be seriously considered.
[cite]Posted By: Curb_It[/cite]I dont smoke in the bogs - thats disgusting and unfair on others. i have been spotted down a stair well (only twice have i been brave to do this) breaking the law.
lock me up.
Ho hum, yes its a stupid law, yes the police should spend their time investigating real crime. But it is a crime and it is the type of thing that the council love to crack down on the club for.
So you stick to smoking where you shouldn't, everyone else stick to moaning and not acting and then we can all continue on with our pointless little gripes.
And if the club ever gets fined? Well, we can all have a jolly good moan about that too.
I can totally see now why the club is asking for more from the FF than just a continuation of this pointless complaining.
this sort of post is just as bad as the constant gripers, the fact is we have put forward positive suggestions (to the forum), but they simply get brushed aside or dismissed most of the time (rightly or wrongly) to say the FF has never done more than put forward gripes is insulting.
Just spoke to my mate at Derby (see rumours thread), no problems with the council, other than a risk asssessment for fire cert.
Speaking with him, I would say that the east stand would be suitable, the west if the main gates where closed.There would be problems with the north stand, as there is no fenced off area. I would say that if the club wanted they could do it as long as it don't cost them.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]
if it was for one stand only then it would be for the West as they pay the most money for their tickets. However, as I said before that would be unfair so the only way to look at it is if we could do it for all stands.
If it was to be only one stand then common sense tells you it should be where the biggest problem / most likely impact area should be, and i'm pretty sure that they don't have the regular problems in the West that they do in the North.
But as i said, there is no real reason with a large outdoor area being unused during HT that the raised section behind the East could be similarly used, which would then cover 2 out of the 3 home stands. Which if you are looking for benchmarks, is a hell of a way to providing more flexibility and options for supporters than the current none.
On a wider point,
The club appears to be a sinking ship in so many aspects, even in the grand scheme of things, tiny aspects like this smoking point where there appears apathy to try and improve things to the benefit of supporters (smokers and non-smokers) emphasises the point.
The club needs a huge reinvigoration and a lot more of a pro-active, energetic can-do attitude IMO.
This summer it should be rallying supporters, getting people onside, giving the impression it is attempting to move forward (even if financially it is paddling its legs for dear life), being innovative in its ways to retain core support and rebuild the fringe support aspects we are going to lose out on over the next couple of years.
Cutting its cloth by ditching underperforming or too expensive players / non-players is only half the battle (which hopefully seems to be making progress).
The other half is going to be much tougher and involves someone / some people showing some big balls and determination to really go the extra mile to try and drive this club forward positively again.
Our season finished 4 weeks ago and starts again 7 weeks.
What were the key objectives of the summer ?
Where is the big drive to energise support ?
Will their even be one ?
What will it consist of ?
What means are the club taking to reach out to supporters ?
How is it going to attempt to retain wavering support ?
What fresh initiatives are being floated to attract fresh support ?
What are the target levels of ST holders for the start of the season ?
How could it realistically be smashed ?
How can supporters become part of a potential growth drive ?
etc etc
Everything appears too meek and accepting. We're drifting and the tide is taking us further away. Don't just put the onus on supporters to deliver working cases, cost base scenarios etc,
Pick us up. Give us some encouragement, get us onside, get us working with you, not for you or against you.
Try and get some form of relationship back with fans that was there 10 years ago.
We desperately need to unify the club at all levels, because we won't start moving forward again till we do. And in the meantime, our core fanbase is becoming more and more disenchanted and lethargic, while our potential support fanbase is growing smaller by the day.
It has been mentioned many times by the club that the rates charges from Greenwich Council are still based on us being in the Prem. Does that mean other things (such as our safety certificate) are based on Prem status too?
If so, does that mean we're being forced to over staff ourselves re. numbers of stewards? Could some of these "spare" stewards be used to police an outside smoking zone?
It is ridiculous that we have lost two thirds of our season ticket holders since the glory days.
I never thought I would see us dipping below 10k season ticket holders again, correct me if Im wrong but we had 6-7k in the mid 90's mediocrity years didnt we?
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]
if it was for one stand only then it would be for the West as they pay the most money for their tickets. However, as I said before that would be unfair so the only way to look at it is if we could do it for all stands.
If it was to be only one stand then common sense tells you it should be where the biggest problem / most likely impact area should be, and i'm pretty sure that they don't have the regular problems in the West that they do in the North.
But as i said, there is no real reason with a large outdoor area being unused during HT that the raised section behind the East could be similarly used, which would then cover 2 out of the 3 home stands. Which if you are looking for benchmarks, is a hell of a way to providing more flexibility and options for supporters than the current none.
On a wider point,
The club appears to be a sinking ship in so many aspects, even in the grand scheme of things, tiny aspects like this smoking point where there appears apathy to try and improve things to the benefit of supporters (smokers and non-smokers) emphasises the point.
The club needs a huge reinvigoration and a lot more of a pro-active, energetic can-do attitude IMO.
This summer it should be rallying supporters, getting people onside, giving the impression it is attempting to move forward (even if financially it is paddling its legs for dear life), being innovative in its ways to retain core support and rebuild the fringe support aspects we are going to lose out on over the next couple of years.
Cutting its cloth by ditching underperforming or too expensive players / non-players is only half the battle (which hopefully seems to be making progress).
The other half is going to be much tougher and involves someone / some people showing some big balls and determination to really go the extra mile to try and drive this club forward positively again.
Our season finished 4 weeks ago and starts again 7 weeks.
What were the key objectives of the summer ?
Where is the big drive to energise support ?
Will their even be one ?
What will it consist of ?
What means are the club taking to reach out to supporters ?
How is it going to attempt to retain wavering support ?
What fresh initiatives are being floated to attract fresh support ?
What are the target levels of ST holders for the start of the season ?
How could it realistically be smashed ?
How can supporters become part of a potential growth drive ?
etc etc
Everything appears too meek and accepting. We're drifting and the tide is taking us further away. Don't just put the onus on supporters to deliver working cases, cost base scenarios etc,
Pick us up. Give us some encouragement, get us onside, get us working with you, not for you or against you.
Try and get some form of relationship back with fans that was there 10 years ago.
We desperately need to unify the club at all levels, because we won't start moving forward again till we do. And in the meantime, our core fanbase is becoming more and more disenchanted and lethargic, while our potential support fanbase is growing smaller by the day.
(mini) rant over !
Thats possibly the best post Ive ever seen on Charlton Life....sums up how I feel too....the Club (namely those that work for the club for a living) need to adopt a "can do" attitude and drop the high falluting "we know better than you mere supporters" bullshit. Lets see if Mr Kavanagh can come up trumps and earn his corn.
Although I can see you point AFKA, you don't have to look very far to see why the club isn't falling over itself to restore the confidence of the fans.
When you talk about "the club" doing more you are really talking about "the staff" doing more (even Kav and Waggot are still "the staff"). Things are changing at the top which may provide that stimulus. But until then (and only if there is new blood coming in) I wouldn't look for the staff to be killing themselves to make the fans lives more comfy, they have been drastically slashed in terms of number. Airman said there is distrust, low confidence, general ill-feeling among the staff.
Sad truth is most will still go if things don't change and that's probably enough for the club for now.
Edit: Tel have you ever worked for a company on the aftermath of large-scale redundancies? Its hardly the happiest place to earn a living.
Yes I have actually, but then again its down to the people who are paid to manage those people to come up with the stimulus, not the consumer/customer/fan...
i've got an idea - for those smokers who can't go 2 hours without a smoke- a Charlton athletic electric cigarette! available from the superstore - a rechargeable, refillable electric cigarette - get the feel, taste and nicotine hit of smoking the real thing!
mmmm then again it might be difficult to get the club to endorse something that still contains nicotine...
anyone know the guy that runs the stall down ransom walk?
[cite]Posted By: Harveys Trainer[/cite]When you talk about "the club" doing more you are really talking about "the staff" doing more (even Kav and Waggot are still "the staff").
I'm talking about Chairman, directors, staff (who are surely paid to not just to maintain a satisfactory level of ongoing business, but equally to instigate attempts to deliver improvements and growth).
As far as general supporters are concerned, no one publicly appears to be taking a real grip of the situation and coming out with big intentions to both stop the halt, and get us moving forward again. And if the beginnings of that have been taking place behind the scenes (i suspect they have, certainly hope they have), then its got to start being played out a lot more publicly within the next month.
There has to be things happening that then puts some emphasis on supporters to respond to, and huge encouragement for them to back things and play their part.
If the structure and financially well-being of the club is particularly stretched, then it becomes even more imperative that it gets as much out of its supporters as it can.
But there needs to be a spark to ignite it.
Not only are we in the worst financial position in our history, coupled with our lowest playing level for 30 years, our 'competitors' are on the rise.
We saw in our best run ever it was still impossible to lure a vast majority of local kids away from blindly following the Arsenal, Man Us etc.
Millwall have been in lower leagues to us in the last ten years, yet their support has consistently grown in our main catchment areas purely off the back of the Football Factory / Green St rubbish that teenagers find exciting. If they then consistently remain in a league above us that is going to have a huge impact on the next generation of kids coming through the local areas.
Palace now appear to be getting their house in order. Their new consortium has done the most brilliant job getting supporters both onside, excited, and pro-actively looking already at how they can move their club forward. They are getting everyone to pull together as one, and everything is geared towards rebuilding and taking the club forward again. If you are sceptical, you watch how attendances at Selhurst increase next season.
We are in serious danger of allowing a short-term malaise have serious impacts on the long-term potential standing of our club, and i don't really care if that sounds 'dramatic' because i fear that within a few years unless some drastic changes happen, and soon, we'll return to the days when the only fresh people following our club will be only those passed down through family.
really leaves a sour taste in the mouth all this, I was just contemplating renewing my season tickets too, I will really be thinking about this before I do.
Comments
I know the FD at Derby, will text him and ask about the smoking area.
if it's gonna cost the club any more money (stewarding etc) then sorry it's a no from me (here speaks a non-smoker in case you didn't guess).....if not, then fine I'm sure it can be organised.
however......even if there was an outside space for a fag, how many from the north upper would bother to walk all the way down to use it - my guess is that most who have a fag in the toilets would just continue to do so in there.
that.
that what?
do you think all smokers are lazy fat bast@ards... plenty already walk to the bottom of the stairs to have one now. take a look at the top if you dont believe me.
Just an observation B...;o)
I'm sure you'd wander down..
Kets
The east and JSS have open air access where you can wander around without having to reproduce your ticket though, surely if you are 'outside' you can smoke, like pubs?
lock me up.
lock me up.[/quote]
Ho hum, yes its a stupid law, yes the police should spend their time investigating real crime. But it is a crime and it is the type of thing that the council love to crack down on the club for.
So you stick to smoking where you shouldn't, everyone else stick to moaning and not acting and then we can all continue on with our pointless little gripes.
And if the club ever gets fined? Well, we can all have a jolly good moan about that too.
I can totally see now why the club is asking for more from the FF than just a continuation of this pointless complaining.
Thanks Red god. Will contact them also.
As for some of the moaning above oh dear never mind. If someone would like to compile a considered effort to the club I am pretty sure anything that was workable would be seriously considered.
this sort of post is just as bad as the constant gripers, the fact is we have put forward positive suggestions (to the forum), but they simply get brushed aside or dismissed most of the time (rightly or wrongly) to say the FF has never done more than put forward gripes is insulting.
Speaking with him, I would say that the east stand would be suitable, the west if the main gates where closed.There would be problems with the north stand, as there is no fenced off area. I would say that if the club wanted they could do it as long as it don't cost them.
Guinness, non smoker
If it was to be only one stand then common sense tells you it should be where the biggest problem / most likely impact area should be, and i'm pretty sure that they don't have the regular problems in the West that they do in the North.
But as i said, there is no real reason with a large outdoor area being unused during HT that the raised section behind the East could be similarly used, which would then cover 2 out of the 3 home stands. Which if you are looking for benchmarks, is a hell of a way to providing more flexibility and options for supporters than the current none.
On a wider point,
The club appears to be a sinking ship in so many aspects, even in the grand scheme of things, tiny aspects like this smoking point where there appears apathy to try and improve things to the benefit of supporters (smokers and non-smokers) emphasises the point.
The club needs a huge reinvigoration and a lot more of a pro-active, energetic can-do attitude IMO.
This summer it should be rallying supporters, getting people onside, giving the impression it is attempting to move forward (even if financially it is paddling its legs for dear life), being innovative in its ways to retain core support and rebuild the fringe support aspects we are going to lose out on over the next couple of years.
Cutting its cloth by ditching underperforming or too expensive players / non-players is only half the battle (which hopefully seems to be making progress).
The other half is going to be much tougher and involves someone / some people showing some big balls and determination to really go the extra mile to try and drive this club forward positively again.
Our season finished 4 weeks ago and starts again 7 weeks.
What were the key objectives of the summer ?
Where is the big drive to energise support ?
Will their even be one ?
What will it consist of ?
What means are the club taking to reach out to supporters ?
How is it going to attempt to retain wavering support ?
What fresh initiatives are being floated to attract fresh support ?
What are the target levels of ST holders for the start of the season ?
How could it realistically be smashed ?
How can supporters become part of a potential growth drive ?
etc etc
Everything appears too meek and accepting. We're drifting and the tide is taking us further away. Don't just put the onus on supporters to deliver working cases, cost base scenarios etc,
Pick us up. Give us some encouragement, get us onside, get us working with you, not for you or against you.
Try and get some form of relationship back with fans that was there 10 years ago.
We desperately need to unify the club at all levels, because we won't start moving forward again till we do. And in the meantime, our core fanbase is becoming more and more disenchanted and lethargic, while our potential support fanbase is growing smaller by the day.
(mini) rant over !
If so, does that mean we're being forced to over staff ourselves re. numbers of stewards? Could some of these "spare" stewards be used to police an outside smoking zone?
(god i am sucking up to him today).
Im sure this is stuff that the FF have brought up already tho?
It is ridiculous that we have lost two thirds of our season ticket holders since the glory days.
I never thought I would see us dipping below 10k season ticket holders again, correct me if Im wrong but we had 6-7k in the mid 90's mediocrity years didnt we?
Thats possibly the best post Ive ever seen on Charlton Life....sums up how I feel too....the Club (namely those that work for the club for a living) need to adopt a "can do" attitude and drop the high falluting "we know better than you mere supporters" bullshit. Lets see if Mr Kavanagh can come up trumps and earn his corn.
When you talk about "the club" doing more you are really talking about "the staff" doing more (even Kav and Waggot are still "the staff"). Things are changing at the top which may provide that stimulus. But until then (and only if there is new blood coming in) I wouldn't look for the staff to be killing themselves to make the fans lives more comfy, they have been drastically slashed in terms of number. Airman said there is distrust, low confidence, general ill-feeling among the staff.
Sad truth is most will still go if things don't change and that's probably enough for the club for now.
Edit: Tel have you ever worked for a company on the aftermath of large-scale redundancies? Its hardly the happiest place to earn a living.
mmmm then again it might be difficult to get the club to endorse something that still contains nicotine...
anyone know the guy that runs the stall down ransom walk?
I'm talking about Chairman, directors, staff (who are surely paid to not just to maintain a satisfactory level of ongoing business, but equally to instigate attempts to deliver improvements and growth).
As far as general supporters are concerned, no one publicly appears to be taking a real grip of the situation and coming out with big intentions to both stop the halt, and get us moving forward again. And if the beginnings of that have been taking place behind the scenes (i suspect they have, certainly hope they have), then its got to start being played out a lot more publicly within the next month.
There has to be things happening that then puts some emphasis on supporters to respond to, and huge encouragement for them to back things and play their part.
If the structure and financially well-being of the club is particularly stretched, then it becomes even more imperative that it gets as much out of its supporters as it can.
But there needs to be a spark to ignite it.
Not only are we in the worst financial position in our history, coupled with our lowest playing level for 30 years, our 'competitors' are on the rise.
We saw in our best run ever it was still impossible to lure a vast majority of local kids away from blindly following the Arsenal, Man Us etc.
Millwall have been in lower leagues to us in the last ten years, yet their support has consistently grown in our main catchment areas purely off the back of the Football Factory / Green St rubbish that teenagers find exciting. If they then consistently remain in a league above us that is going to have a huge impact on the next generation of kids coming through the local areas.
Palace now appear to be getting their house in order. Their new consortium has done the most brilliant job getting supporters both onside, excited, and pro-actively looking already at how they can move their club forward. They are getting everyone to pull together as one, and everything is geared towards rebuilding and taking the club forward again. If you are sceptical, you watch how attendances at Selhurst increase next season.
We are in serious danger of allowing a short-term malaise have serious impacts on the long-term potential standing of our club, and i don't really care if that sounds 'dramatic' because i fear that within a few years unless some drastic changes happen, and soon, we'll return to the days when the only fresh people following our club will be only those passed down through family.