[quote][cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Dave, what does your original agenda consist of ?[/quote]
as I said in the original post, AFKA, we intend to ask about budgets for the coming season, changes to the squad, expectations for the season (and what they are based on) etc. Add to that things that we have already got from other fans (including some of the things suggested above), things that are relevant to the way the Fans' Forum has operated up to now, how we go forward, future ways of working etc. That may or may not include elections for new members, Henry. I have no idea until we have the discussion and the consensus view is established, but I would hope that we can arrive at a fair and equitable selection process.
We'll make the full agenda available before the meeting next week, but I'd prefer to gain more input from fans without the influencing effect of what is already being tabled.
Has the club put any thought into ticketing offers throughout the season to try and boost matchday sales?
Obviously there's the issue of giving season ticket holder's value for money but surely there can be a loyalty system where for example, "buy tickets to 2 games, get to another for free", "buy tickets to 5 games, bring a mate to one for free" etc. Could even specify that the free game has to be one of the quieter night games, when many wouldn't bother but as it's 'free', the club might as well get revenue from programme, hot dogs etc.
You'd need a limit so it's not abused, but could help some of our lost fans get back.
[quote][cite]Posted By: mart77[/cite]There are still some potholes in the West Stand car park that need filling. What is being done to amend this?[/quote]
What do you think the Shelvey money is being used for?
[cite] things that are relevant to the way the Fans' Forum has operated up to now, how we go forward, future ways of working etc. That may or may not include elections for new members, Henry.
fair enough. Hope any elections include both new and current members for fairness.
[cite]Posted By: allez les addicks[/cite]Has the club put any thought into ticketing offers throughout the season to try and boost matchday sales?
Obviously there's the issue of giving season ticket holder's value for money but surely there can be a loyalty system where for example, "buy tickets to 2 games, get to another for free", "buy tickets to 5 games, bring a mate to one for free" etc. Could even specify that the free game has to be one of the quieter night games, when many wouldn't bother but as it's 'free', the club might as well get revenue from programme, hot dogs etc.
You'd need a limit so it's not abused, but could help some of our lost fans get back.
The club has a Target 40,000 committee to consider these matters and both Henry and the Fans' Forum sit on it. They know that lots of ideas are discussed. As a committee we are entirely open to new ones, but I would think your proposal as framed would be dismissed out of hand because the board would not entertain it on marginal ticket revenue grounds, i.e. it would be seen as likely to reduce income. It's a myth that the club makes significant money from ancillary activities relative to ticket income - once you take into account the cost of sales we reckon the profit on these activities is roughly £1 per spectator per match. To be clear that is significant money of itself, but not if you give up ticket income to get it.
Henry and the Fans' Forum know the views within the club about the Greenwich and Bexley branch of CASC because it has been discussed at length at Target 40,000.
[cite]Posted By: C.Walsh'sLoveChild[/cite]My mate works for the company that who's big screen it is. He says that murray has a controlling interest in the company. Any truth in this?
My understanding was that a company connected to RM sold the screen to the club some years ago but I stand to be corrected.
[cite]Posted By: allez les addicks[/cite]Has the club put any thought into ticketing offers throughout the season to try and boost matchday sales?
Obviously there's the issue of giving season ticket holder's value for money but surely there can be a loyalty system where for example, "buy tickets to 2 games, get to another for free", "buy tickets to 5 games, bring a mate to one for free" etc. Could even specify that the free game has to be one of the quieter night games, when many wouldn't bother but as it's 'free', the club might as well get revenue from programme, hot dogs etc.
You'd need a limit so it's not abused, but could help some of our lost fans get back.
The club has a Target 40,000 committee to consider these matters and both Henry and the Fans' Forum sit on it. They know that lots of ideas are discussed. As a committee we are entirely open to new ones, but I would think your proposal as framed would be dismissed out of hand because the board would not entertain it on marginal ticket revenue grounds, i.e. it would be seen as likely to reduce income. It's a myth that the club makes significant money from ancillary activities relative to ticket income - once you take into account the cost of sales we reckon the profit on these activities is roughly £1 per spectator per match. To be clear that is significant money of itself, but not if you give up ticket income to get it.
Henry and the Fans Forum know the views within the club about the Greenwich and Bexley branch of CASC because it has been discussed at length at Target 40,00.
Fair enough about the ancillary activities but surely if you're getting someone to go to two games they otherwise wouldn't have because of the carat of a free third one, that's increased marginal ticket revenue. I presume the club still give discounted tickets to schools and local kids groups etc., it's very much the same principle: get them into the ground, hope they enjoy it and come back for more, only you're getting the income from the other games.
Tbh I doubt the uptake would be that big, but we'd never know without trying, and if it got even a small amount of people going semi-regularly again, even as low a number as 10 or 20, surely it'd be a beneficial thing to do?
Airman is correct. These sort of ideas are discussed in some detail at Target 40k meetings and the pros and cons argued but don't stop putting them forward to the Fans Forum as they can still be discussed or at worst the reasons for not taking them forward set out.
And the Fans Forum are part of T40k along with staff and board directors (as well as me and plenty of others)
[cite]Posted By: allez les addicks[/cite]
Fair enough about the ancillary activities but surely if you're getting someone to go to two games they otherwise wouldn't have because of the carat of a free third one, that's increased marginal ticket revenue. I presume the club still give discounted tickets to schools and local kids groups etc., it's very much the same principle: get them into the ground, hope they enjoy it and come back for more, only you're getting the income from the other games.
Tbh I doubt the uptake would be that big, but we'd never know without trying, and if it got even a small amount of people going semi-regularly again, even as low a number as 10 or 20, surely it'd be a beneficial thing to do?
The problem is that you have a core of people who will already plan to buy tickets for all three games and, particularly if the third game is unattractive, it's likely you'll have more people getting the third game free who would have paid for it than you will get buying the second match additionally when they only intended to come once.
Price is a factor in people's attendance, but it's obviously not the only one. A lot of people won't be interested in paying for two games to get a third because they aren't that interested in the first place.
Can the club tell stewards to let people who want to smoke at half time go outside the ground so that non smokers who want a half time beer/pie/piss are able to actually breathe whilst doing so?
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]
The problem is that you have a core of people who will already plan to buy tickets for all three games and, particularly if the third game is unattractive, it's likely you'll have more people getting the third game free who would have paid for it than you will get buying the second match additionally when they only intended to come once.
Price is a factor in people's attendance, but it's obviously not the only one. A lot of people won't be interested in paying for two games to get a third because they aren't that interested in the first place.
Personally I don't know many people who aren't season ticket holders who will buy 3 home tickets in a row, but I do appreciate that what you have suggested is the obvious criticism of that type of scheme. Who's to say that the same thing wouldn't have occurred with the kids who get discounted tickets though? Dad might have taken them to the game anyway, but tbh as it's all ifs, buts and maybes, there's no way of proving it either way
Correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen any initiatives to get people in the ground other than the usual season ticket promotions lately, and I know that budgetary constraints come into it on a marketing side, but this is the kind of thing that just needs to be a splash on the website, email bulletin etc. to try and get the casual fan into the ground. After all if we're honest about it, there are very few 'must see' games next season if any, where attendance will be naturally boosted like they were for millwall, leeds, and norwich this season. Imo it's going to require some thinking from left field like this if attendances are going to stay at anything approaching a similar level to this year....
Is there any need for the amount of Stewards we have? Particuarly in the NU. I mean the ones who just stand around watching the game on the tele.
If anything serious does happen, you always get the 'black & yellow coat' army coming steaming in anyway...?
They're certainly not there to keep the smokers out the toilets! Like Chris says, it's like a steam room in there at HT.
Could you ask the club about resrve game policy. I felt that the lack of reserve games in the combination league last season held back the improvement of younger players and the rehabilitation of injured players. These behind closed doors games do not seem effective. Also could there be a few more non first team games at the valley.
[cite]Posted By: allez les addicks[/cite]Personally I don't know many people who aren't season ticket holders who will buy 3 home tickets in a row, but I do appreciate that what you have suggested is the obvious criticism of that type of scheme. Who's to say that the same thing wouldn't have occurred with the kids who get discounted tickets though? Dad might have taken them to the game anyway, but tbh as it's all ifs, buts and maybes, there's no way of proving it either way
Correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen any initiatives to get people in the ground other than the usual season ticket promotions lately, and I know that budgetary constraints come into it on a marketing side, but this is the kind of thing that just needs to be a splash on the website, email bulletin etc. to try and get the casual fan into the ground. After all if we're honest about it, there are very few 'must see' games next season if any, where attendance will be naturally boosted like they were for millwall, leeds, and norwich this season. Imo it's going to require some thinking from left field like this if attendances are going to stay at anything approaching a similar level to this year....
Aren't you still falling into the trap of assuming that people not currently attending or coming to the odd game actually want to see three consecutive games, though. Much more effective, in my experience, is a sharp price promotion, such as all tickets a fiver for a particular game.
Of course the comp tickets to schools and via the community scheme does pick up existing supporters and is occasionally abused, but you're more likely to attract a new spectator (and I appreciate you were talking about getting people back) by making an offer based on one game than something that requires them to commit to more than one match at the outset.
We can target lapsed supporters quite precisely with the systems we now have and we will continue to look at this, but any initiative has to be robust in terms of its impact on revenue. It's much more about that than any marketing costs.
Thing is, there are a number of stroppy fans, me included, that will whinge if any combination of deals are put together that allow non season ticket holders to see the games for less than the price of a season ticket.
Midweek games are a good example as I suspect that a lot of season ticket holders don't attend midweek games, but are still, in effect, paying for them. If the club offered a season ticket that was cheaper where you could choose, say, six games to miss, then I might have gone for that, and if you make that deal available through a combination of offers during the season then you potentially reduce the financial benefit of the season ticket.
watching the play offs, apart from the players sponsor being announced (at huddersfield), i also noticed that more teams are having a 2nd sponsor on the back of their shirts.
too late for this coming season, but is there a possibility that this could happen. or does krbs have exclusive rights?
i don't know how (un)popular it'd be with fans nor whether the possible revenue would outweigh the potential drop in replica kit sales.
Yes a smoking outside area bit would be a great point. They do it at Derby without any problems. the stewards said to me... we want you all to be happy as when you're happy, we're all happy as nothing to worry about.
I cant see why that piece East Stand wasteland section cannot be used - you are outside and about 15 feet away from the stand if not more. It is a most RIDICULOUS rule. Its alright to see Martin Simons coming downstairs for a smoke at half time but the plebs are not allowed outside of Bartrams at half time. Its a bloody joke actually. I remember on my 40th spent a lot of money there 20 of us - 8 smokers and non charlton fans... they all sat there raging with the hump as they weren't allowed out the front door of the club to have a quick puff.
Its ABSOLUTE bollocks.
And sod you non smokers who wish to moan about me moaning about my right to smoke.
[cite]Posted By: paulbaconsarnie[/cite]watching the play offs, apart from the players sponsor being announced (at huddersfield), i also noticed that more teams are having a 2nd sponsor on the back of their shirts.
too late for this coming season, but is there a possibility that this could happen. or does krbs have exclusive rights?
i don't know how (un)popular it'd be with fans nor whether the possible revenue would outweigh the potential drop in replica kit sales.
That's assuming there is someone who wants to pay a worthwhile sum to be the second sponsor, even if the KRBS contract allows it. Bear in mind the board decided to dispense with the post of commercial director last year, which perhaps reflects what they think is achievable in this area?
I apologise in advance if this annoys as it's been done to death before but with new home and away shirts coming as we have a new kit maker (Macron), what would the chances be of the club announcing several styles for both home and away and fans voting on their favourite? Fan input may encourage more sales.
[cite]Posted By: Airman Brown[/cite]
Aren't you still falling into the trap of assuming that people not currently attending or coming to the odd game actually want to see three consecutive games, though. Much more effective, in my experience, is a sharp price promotion, such as all tickets a fiver for a particular game.
Of course the comp tickets to schools and via the community scheme does pick up existing supporters and is occasionally abused, but you're more likely to attract a new spectator (and I appreciate you were talking about getting people back) by making an offer based on one game than something that requires them to commit to more than one match at the outset.
We can target lapsed supporters quite precisely with the systems we now have and we will continue to look at this, but any initiative has to be robust in terms of its impact on revenue. It's much more about that than any marketing costs.
I agree about the price promotion being the best option, for example I went to the Palace vs Man City Carling Cup game last season with a couple of Nigel mates and my ticket cost me half of what it had cost me to see Walsall at The Valley four days earlier. You could argue that's why Palace went bust but I admired their decision not to increase prices just to see a big team. Worked on me and I hate Palace
I thought I saw on here last season that that idea was dead in the water because of possible annoyance to ST holders though, and the risk of receiving less total revenue from a minimally increased attendance all paying less than they otherwise would have. Even if we did something simple and unoriginal like Kid for a Quid a couple times a season it'd be better than what was tried last season, which to me appeared to be nothing more than quoting ticket prices with a splash photoshop pic on the website.
I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this but I imagine if you're a casual/non fan, £20 to watch Charlton vs Hartlepool is asking alot compared to what other activities that are available, so imo there needs to be an initiative of some sort tried this year.
Comments
as I said in the original post, AFKA, we intend to ask about budgets for the coming season, changes to the squad, expectations for the season (and what they are based on) etc. Add to that things that we have already got from other fans (including some of the things suggested above), things that are relevant to the way the Fans' Forum has operated up to now, how we go forward, future ways of working etc. That may or may not include elections for new members, Henry. I have no idea until we have the discussion and the consensus view is established, but I would hope that we can arrive at a fair and equitable selection process.
We'll make the full agenda available before the meeting next week, but I'd prefer to gain more input from fans without the influencing effect of what is already being tabled.
Obviously there's the issue of giving season ticket holder's value for money but surely there can be a loyalty system where for example, "buy tickets to 2 games, get to another for free", "buy tickets to 5 games, bring a mate to one for free" etc. Could even specify that the free game has to be one of the quieter night games, when many wouldn't bother but as it's 'free', the club might as well get revenue from programme, hot dogs etc.
You'd need a limit so it's not abused, but could help some of our lost fans get back.
What do you think the Shelvey money is being used for?
The club has a Target 40,000 committee to consider these matters and both Henry and the Fans' Forum sit on it. They know that lots of ideas are discussed. As a committee we are entirely open to new ones, but I would think your proposal as framed would be dismissed out of hand because the board would not entertain it on marginal ticket revenue grounds, i.e. it would be seen as likely to reduce income. It's a myth that the club makes significant money from ancillary activities relative to ticket income - once you take into account the cost of sales we reckon the profit on these activities is roughly £1 per spectator per match. To be clear that is significant money of itself, but not if you give up ticket income to get it.
Henry and the Fans' Forum know the views within the club about the Greenwich and Bexley branch of CASC because it has been discussed at length at Target 40,000.
My understanding was that a company connected to RM sold the screen to the club some years ago but I stand to be corrected.
Fair enough about the ancillary activities but surely if you're getting someone to go to two games they otherwise wouldn't have because of the carat of a free third one, that's increased marginal ticket revenue. I presume the club still give discounted tickets to schools and local kids groups etc., it's very much the same principle: get them into the ground, hope they enjoy it and come back for more, only you're getting the income from the other games.
Tbh I doubt the uptake would be that big, but we'd never know without trying, and if it got even a small amount of people going semi-regularly again, even as low a number as 10 or 20, surely it'd be a beneficial thing to do?
And the Fans Forum are part of T40k along with staff and board directors (as well as me and plenty of others)
The problem is that you have a core of people who will already plan to buy tickets for all three games and, particularly if the third game is unattractive, it's likely you'll have more people getting the third game free who would have paid for it than you will get buying the second match additionally when they only intended to come once.
Price is a factor in people's attendance, but it's obviously not the only one. A lot of people won't be interested in paying for two games to get a third because they aren't that interested in the first place.
I really wish you would as not only do you have the skills fans in Greenwich and Bexley really deserve so much more than they get now.
Personally I don't know many people who aren't season ticket holders who will buy 3 home tickets in a row, but I do appreciate that what you have suggested is the obvious criticism of that type of scheme. Who's to say that the same thing wouldn't have occurred with the kids who get discounted tickets though? Dad might have taken them to the game anyway, but tbh as it's all ifs, buts and maybes, there's no way of proving it either way
Correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't seen any initiatives to get people in the ground other than the usual season ticket promotions lately, and I know that budgetary constraints come into it on a marketing side, but this is the kind of thing that just needs to be a splash on the website, email bulletin etc. to try and get the casual fan into the ground. After all if we're honest about it, there are very few 'must see' games next season if any, where attendance will be naturally boosted like they were for millwall, leeds, and norwich this season. Imo it's going to require some thinking from left field like this if attendances are going to stay at anything approaching a similar level to this year....
If anything serious does happen, you always get the 'black & yellow coat' army coming steaming in anyway...?
They're certainly not there to keep the smokers out the toilets! Like Chris says, it's like a steam room in there at HT.
Also could there be a few more non first team games at the valley.
That's the real question... when is the hot water getting tuned on.
Aren't you still falling into the trap of assuming that people not currently attending or coming to the odd game actually want to see three consecutive games, though. Much more effective, in my experience, is a sharp price promotion, such as all tickets a fiver for a particular game.
Of course the comp tickets to schools and via the community scheme does pick up existing supporters and is occasionally abused, but you're more likely to attract a new spectator (and I appreciate you were talking about getting people back) by making an offer based on one game than something that requires them to commit to more than one match at the outset.
We can target lapsed supporters quite precisely with the systems we now have and we will continue to look at this, but any initiative has to be robust in terms of its impact on revenue. It's much more about that than any marketing costs.
Midweek games are a good example as I suspect that a lot of season ticket holders don't attend midweek games, but are still, in effect, paying for them. If the club offered a season ticket that was cheaper where you could choose, say, six games to miss, then I might have gone for that, and if you make that deal available through a combination of offers during the season then you potentially reduce the financial benefit of the season ticket.
too late for this coming season, but is there a possibility that this could happen. or does krbs have exclusive rights?
i don't know how (un)popular it'd be with fans nor whether the possible revenue would outweigh the potential drop in replica kit sales.
I cant see why that piece East Stand wasteland section cannot be used - you are outside and about 15 feet away from the stand if not more. It is a most RIDICULOUS rule. Its alright to see Martin Simons coming downstairs for a smoke at half time but the plebs are not allowed outside of Bartrams at half time. Its a bloody joke actually. I remember on my 40th spent a lot of money there 20 of us - 8 smokers and non charlton fans... they all sat there raging with the hump as they weren't allowed out the front door of the club to have a quick puff.
Its ABSOLUTE bollocks.
And sod you non smokers who wish to moan about me moaning about my right to smoke.
p.s. i do not smoke in the loo. thats disgusting.
What about fat bastards like me, who want a beer and a steak slice.
That's assuming there is someone who wants to pay a worthwhile sum to be the second sponsor, even if the KRBS contract allows it. Bear in mind the board decided to dispense with the post of commercial director last year, which perhaps reflects what they think is achievable in this area?
May be worth mentioning.
We can have a seperate fat area for Beer & Food. Might be tight on room though....
I agree about the price promotion being the best option, for example I went to the Palace vs Man City Carling Cup game last season with a couple of Nigel mates and my ticket cost me half of what it had cost me to see Walsall at The Valley four days earlier. You could argue that's why Palace went bust but I admired their decision not to increase prices just to see a big team. Worked on me and I hate Palace
I thought I saw on here last season that that idea was dead in the water because of possible annoyance to ST holders though, and the risk of receiving less total revenue from a minimally increased attendance all paying less than they otherwise would have. Even if we did something simple and unoriginal like Kid for a Quid a couple times a season it'd be better than what was tried last season, which to me appeared to be nothing more than quoting ticket prices with a splash photoshop pic on the website.
I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this but I imagine if you're a casual/non fan, £20 to watch Charlton vs Hartlepool is asking alot compared to what other activities that are available, so imo there needs to be an initiative of some sort tried this year.