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January 2021 Transfer Targets (last minute swoop for Jaiyesimi p184 - NOW it's all over.)
Comments
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We have to accept that Bowyer’s public criticisms are part of his make up. He is too emotional after a game and although it does seem he has toned it down it may reappear when particularly frustrated.
Football clubs are full of egos, strong personalities and people who have been told how wonderful they are for many years. Changing rooms and training grounds will see verbal and physical fall outs regularly. Even the best managers get it wrong. All managers will fall out with players over time and actually I’m quite glad to see that if certain players don’t reach the standards he sets, not just on the pitch but off the pitch aswell then he will act.
He’ll be inconsistent like we all are and of course he will have his favourites. That’s human nature. If Maddison had done some pretty terrible things that some are alluding to on here then maybe the other players are glad Bowyer spoke out against him and is looking to pack him off to Bolton. Of course we won’t find out what the issue is from the club. We gave Maddison a go and it hasn’t worked.Bowyer and his staff see these players pretty much every day. We see them for a couple of hours a week on a pitch. So much more goes on than we see. So we speculate and decide for ourselves what might have happened. Chances are we will be pretty wide of the mark.
I also know that the fantastic man manager Chris Powell fell out with certain players. Refused to budge on those who didn’t reach his standards. Isolated others. Moved on those who were a negative influence.We’ve had a decent window. It won’t satisfy everyone but transfers on deadline day are notoriously tricky. Let’s see where we are when it closes.4 -
Maddison prefers that big fish small pond, the big I am feeling. He outgrew Peterborough, didn't do well at Hulll, never fitted in as a player at Charlton. He was a gamble and we are cutting our losses.
I wish him well if he moves on as no doubt he will storm league 2.2 -
Feigned injury when he pulled up on the pitch and "gave up" when no one was near him.Dazzler21 said:
According to the News story those incidents seemed to happen in reverse.Covered End said:
It's odds on that Maddison feigned injury, when that excuse ran out, he feigned illness and when that ran out he said he'd been close to someone with Covid. He doesn't want to play for Charlton and Bowyer doesn't want this disruptive bad apple.Sage said:Anyone who blames Bowyer for Maddison leaving and not being successful whilst here is fully entitled to your own opinion. However, it’s incredibly difficult to form any kind of opinion when you just don’t understand what has happened behind the scenes.
If and when the story comes out, everyone who has sided with Maddison will wonder what was going through their mind to question the decisions Bowyer makes.
I am not in a position to put a public forum the situation. But what I will say is Maddison does not want to be here anymore and is not committed to the cause. When that is the case, it’s best to get rid. No matter how talented that individual may be with a football at their feet.
I am with Bowyer 100% and all I can say is, good riddance.
The best solution is to get rid asap to any other poor saps that will take him (only lower L2 it looks like).
1. ill
2. Told to isolate after being near someone with covid
3. Ankle injury that Bowyer didn't care about.
Maybe he didn't care because Maddison wasn't really injured... Maybe he really was...
I'm going to stop talking about MM and JW now unless they go and we don't replace them.
This was after Bowyer had publicly slated him for jumping out of a tackle and went too far saying he wasn't bothered if he was injured (obviously lost his temper being interviewed too soon after the game finished).
Then when they could find no injury, he said he was ill to avoid training.
Then when he could no longer say he was ill he said he'd been near someone with Covid so couldn't train.
Maddison may take some for a fool but not Bowyer and most of the fans.6 -
True, but some of it has to be. And we know much more than should.thenewbie said:
Bonne has gone on to do approximately fuck all in the championship so let's not pretend one swallow makes a summer there. He had a good season, he's not necessarily a good player - certainly not at Champ level yet.charltonbob said:
Or to look at an alternativeForeverAddickted said:Got a feeling this is just the beginning for a large part of the squad
Maddison especially going to Bolton will be a big message to the players that remain
Perform and represent the club to the standards we expect or we'll shed no tears about getting rid of you in the summer
Outgoings /possible outgoings in the window:
Bogle Nowhere near good enough but has suffered from Bowyers put downs in the media when Bowyer must have known what he was getting when he signed him.
Smyth Recalled by QPR
Doughty Refused a new contract
Maddison Criticised by Bowyer in the media the worst being "I don't care if he's seriously injured"
Williams Criticised by Bowyer in the media (praised as well at times) Rarely picked even when we're crying out for creativity & even as a sub when he's played well straight back on the bench next game. Wants to go to Cardiff
Last year
M.Bonne Brought from Non league, leading scorer for us in Championship but still criticised by Bowyer in the media.
Maybe some players aren't playing for him & can't wait to get out, possibly his man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Criticise players when needed but do it behind closed doors not on sky sports /newspapers.
Bogle was treated poorly but even so was pretty poor. Chicken/Egg at best with that.
Doughty refused to sign a contract. Was played nonetheless until injury, ended up making more on him than we would have if he'd waited to sod off to Scotland season's end.
Williams looks good but does not have any actual creativity. His goals/assists per game is poor. Nice guy but not actually bringing much to the table.
Maddison... We've heard a lot about. But at the very worst it sounds as if he has been just as much the sinner as the sinned against.
Bowyer definitely has made mistakes but not everything that goes wrong is just because "bAd MaNaGeMeNt"0 -
He didn't call for Bowyer's job, just to criticise behind closed doors. Imagine working for a big multinational and you do something wrong and it gets sent out to the whole organisation and investors etc... It'd be called bullying as you wouldn't be allowed to challenge it and if you were, you'd be told where the door is.cafc_se7 said:
So what are you getting at? In an ideal world what would you do? And let’s be frank who would you bring in to replace Bow?charltonbob said:
Or to look at an alternativeForeverAddickted said:Got a feeling this is just the beginning for a large part of the squad
Maddison especially going to Bolton will be a big message to the players that remain
Perform and represent the club to the standards we expect or we'll shed no tears about getting rid of you in the summer
Outgoings /possible outgoings in the window:
Bogle Nowhere near good enough but has suffered from Bowyers put downs in the media when Bowyer must have known what he was getting when he signed him.
Smyth Recalled by QPR
Doughty Refused a new contract
Maddison Criticised by Bowyer in the media the worst being "I don't care if he's seriously injured"
Williams Criticised by Bowyer in the media (praised as well at times) Rarely picked even when we're crying out for creativity & even as a sub when he's played well straight back on the bench next game. Wants to go to Cardiff
Last year
M.Bonne Brought from Non league, leading scorer for us in Championship but still criticised by Bowyer in the media.
Maybe some players aren't playing for him & can't wait to get out, possibly his man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Criticise players when needed but do it behind closed doors not on sky sports /newspapers.
FWIW I don't want Bowyer gone either, despite many people's views. I have seen a positive turn of late and hopefully that is down to Bowyer's actions. He cannot and should not be beyond criticism though. He is an employee of the club and should be treated as fairly as the players are.
Managers and players careers thrive or burn based upon how they conduct themselves. If Bowyer shows he is learning (as it has seemed lately) then of course he continues to get support.1 -
I think Williams is committed and puts a shift in, he just doesn’t necessarily do it in a Bowyer way. The game the other week at home to Swindon, he threw himself to win a header in the first half in their box. He commits by getting his legs chopped when he gets tackled. He’s never going to get stuck in, but I don’t think his commitment can be questioned29
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I agree there has been a positive change recently. I just can't believe how people haven't spotted the wrongdoings, some even calling them as positives!Dazzler21 said:
He didn't call for Bowyer's job, just to criticise behind closed doors. Imagine working for a big multinational and you do something wrong and it gets sent out to the whole organisation and investors etc... It'd be called bullying as you wouldn't be allowed to challenge it and if you were, you'd be told where the door is.cafc_se7 said:
So what are you getting at? In an ideal world what would you do? And let’s be frank who would you bring in to replace Bow?charltonbob said:
Or to look at an alternativeForeverAddickted said:Got a feeling this is just the beginning for a large part of the squad
Maddison especially going to Bolton will be a big message to the players that remain
Perform and represent the club to the standards we expect or we'll shed no tears about getting rid of you in the summer
Outgoings /possible outgoings in the window:
Bogle Nowhere near good enough but has suffered from Bowyers put downs in the media when Bowyer must have known what he was getting when he signed him.
Smyth Recalled by QPR
Doughty Refused a new contract
Maddison Criticised by Bowyer in the media the worst being "I don't care if he's seriously injured"
Williams Criticised by Bowyer in the media (praised as well at times) Rarely picked even when we're crying out for creativity & even as a sub when he's played well straight back on the bench next game. Wants to go to Cardiff
Last year
M.Bonne Brought from Non league, leading scorer for us in Championship but still criticised by Bowyer in the media.
Maybe some players aren't playing for him & can't wait to get out, possibly his man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Criticise players when needed but do it behind closed doors not on sky sports /newspapers.
FWIW I don't want Bowyer gone either, despite many people's views. I have seen a positive turn of late and hopefully that is down to Bowyer's actions. He cannot and should not be beyond criticism though. He is an employee of the club and should be treated as fairly as the players are.
Managers and players careers thrive or burn based upon how they conduct themselves. If Bowyer shows he is learning (as it has seemed lately) then of course he continues to get support.2 -
He's even scored two this season following Bowyer's orders to follow into the box.cabbles said:I think Williams is committed and puts a shift in, he just doesn’t necessarily do it in a Bowyer way. The game the other week at home to Swindon, he threw himself to win a header in the first half in their box. He commits by getting his legs chopped when he gets tackled. He’s never going to get stuck in, but I don’t think his commitment can be questioned0 -
I’m assuming cafclad is a Crewe supporter and the 7pm announcement will be by boreham wood who can offer more in wages following their winger going to HuddersfieldForeverAddickted said:Because I want people to share in my despair and hope for anything!!7 -
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I remember thinking that the Maddison injury was one of the strangest I've seen. He was standing still and then all of a sudden writhing on the floor. Makes sense now.3
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Maybe it will tie in with the Williams announcement.Todds_right_hook said:
I’m assuming cafclad is a Crewe supporter and the 7pm announcement will be by boreham wood who can offer more in wages following their winger going to HuddersfieldForeverAddickted said:Because I want people to share in my despair and hope for anything!!0 -
Usual friendly banter on who should go, who wasn’t managed properly, who was a disruptive influence, who we’ve failed to sign, nothing much really look in again at 11.00pm for a full update 😉Valley27000 said:What's happening?.0 -
We knew and have been warned about Maddison but took the gamble.
In my opinion it comes down to Bowyer's preference he doesn't really like creative midfielders who play in between the lines given a free role. He wants midfielders to be box to box more disciplined in terms stick to a position and do defensive work.
That's why Fosu got moved on, Oztumer hasn't settled and Williams hasn't got regular game time.
I do feel sorry for Williams as I feel he would of succeeded more if stuck in that number 10 position in a diamond and giving a free role and could play to his strengths of running at defenders but he is played in number of different positions and usually comes on off the bench in a game that is long ball and scrappy.
Obviously this season it looks like we want to play with a target man and wingers/inside forwards.
Now we have lost Smyth and Doughty as wide outlets and got Millar who is a quality addition but leaves us short out wide if Maddison goes, probably expect Washington to be seen more right wing.
Stockley for Bogle was more of a upgrade.
A question being is with Smith signing having 7 centre mids and finding the right combination and who plays what role, getting that balance right. Also since that we choose not to get another centre half when all 4 of ours have had injuries recently and could be left short again.
I'm slightly disappointed that we have moved on academy graduates like Wiredu and Lapslie who could feature more in the squad and develop if given more game time to keep rotating loan signings or short term older players who all won't be here next season.
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Nah he's from DartfordTodds_right_hook said:
I’m assuming cafclad is a Crewe supporter and the 7pm announcement will be by boreham wood who can offer more in wages following their winger going to HuddersfieldForeverAddickted said:Because I want people to share in my despair and hope for anything!!3 -
He’s followed by JJ so maybe, just maybe... #daretodream 😉Todds_right_hook said:
I’m assuming cafclad is a Crewe supporter and the 7pm announcement will be by boreham wood who can offer more in wages following their winger going to HuddersfieldForeverAddickted said:Because I want people to share in my despair and hope for anything!!0 -
He will learn! He is still a young, raw manager... the players mentioned have been professionals long enough to have made their mark and they have but for all the wrong reasons! I think in all cases mentioned, Bow is not to blame for this (apart from maybe handling situations more professionally granted).Dazzler21 said:
He didn't call for Bowyer's job, just to criticise behind closed doors. Imagine working for a big multinational and you do something wrong and it gets sent out to the whole organisation and investors etc... It'd be called bullying as you wouldn't be allowed to challenge it and if you were, you'd be told where the door is.cafc_se7 said:
So what are you getting at? In an ideal world what would you do? And let’s be frank who would you bring in to replace Bow?charltonbob said:
Or to look at an alternativeForeverAddickted said:Got a feeling this is just the beginning for a large part of the squad
Maddison especially going to Bolton will be a big message to the players that remain
Perform and represent the club to the standards we expect or we'll shed no tears about getting rid of you in the summer
Outgoings /possible outgoings in the window:
Bogle Nowhere near good enough but has suffered from Bowyers put downs in the media when Bowyer must have known what he was getting when he signed him.
Smyth Recalled by QPR
Doughty Refused a new contract
Maddison Criticised by Bowyer in the media the worst being "I don't care if he's seriously injured"
Williams Criticised by Bowyer in the media (praised as well at times) Rarely picked even when we're crying out for creativity & even as a sub when he's played well straight back on the bench next game. Wants to go to Cardiff
Last year
M.Bonne Brought from Non league, leading scorer for us in Championship but still criticised by Bowyer in the media.
Maybe some players aren't playing for him & can't wait to get out, possibly his man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Criticise players when needed but do it behind closed doors not on sky sports /newspapers.
FWIW I don't want Bowyer gone either, despite many people's views. I have seen a positive turn of late and hopefully that is down to Bowyer's actions. He cannot and should not be beyond criticism though. He is an employee of the club and should be treated as fairly as the players are.
Managers and players careers thrive or burn based upon how they conduct themselves. If Bowyer shows he is learning (as it has seemed lately) then of course he continues to get support.1 -
makes sense that cafc will want to tie in JW departure with a replacement - let's hope so2
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Maybe he meant 8pm and his finger slipped...?ForeverAddickted said:Because I want people to share in my despair and hope for anything!!4 - Sponsored links:
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We're signing Johnny Depp?Dazzler21 said:
If you have half the story you will form an opinion rightly or wrongly. More often than not it will be biased.ForeverAddickted said:
But thats why I dont know how people can criticise Lee when they only know half the storyDazzler21 said:
Well knowing both sides to an argument does change things.ForeverAddickted said:
Would you feel differently if you knew what Maddison had said was on public record?MuttleyCAFC said:What Bowyer said about Maddison is on public record. What Maddison has said about Bowyer isn't.
I might turn around as @Sage suggests and go "Oh okay if he's done that, that's completely unacceptable and I agree with Bowyer on this one"
Was no different when Chris Solly got vilified on here, people only had half the knowledge so he was the villain
Said it at the time, you cant go on Jury Service, hear one side of the story and then pass judgement.
I think there always has to be good reasons why a lot doesnt appear in the public domain
If you have none of it you cannot and as such we'd form assumptions as to what happened, which is wrong but is what always used to happen.
If you have both sides you're a lot more likely to form a fair opinion. So if one side comes out, the best solution to stop that happening is to let people know the full story.
See Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.
At first it was "oh my god Johnny Depp did that? I can see why the movie deals were pulled"
Then it was "oh my god she did what? that's disgusting, she should lose her movie deals too"
Now it's "they're both bad for one another and have both been very in the wrong him for x her for y, they're better off apart"
I cannot believe I have just used that as an argument, but it's there and I hate it. I want to know that my judgment is wrong when it is.
Hmm, not sure how I feel about that. He's got tattoos, hasn't he?4 -
Nah, firm management of those who cannot reach the required standard of performance set by Bowyer. Sidelining the weak and disruptive elements so they do not contaminate the team that can. Making it public so everyone knows that those who do not put in the effort have their issues addressed and that shirking is not acceptable. Isolating them gives those that can a huge lift in knowing that they are better, plus the knowledge that they will not need to carry them improves performance. Increases togetherness and team spirit. Strength is the team, and the best team wins. No individual can be allowed to disrupt that.charltonbob said:
Or to look at an alternativeForeverAddickted said:Got a feeling this is just the beginning for a large part of the squad
Maddison especially going to Bolton will be a big message to the players that remain
Perform and represent the club to the standards we expect or we'll shed no tears about getting rid of you in the summer
Outgoings /possible outgoings in the window:
Bogle Nowhere near good enough but has suffered from Bowyers put downs in the media when Bowyer must have known what he was getting when he signed him.
Smyth Recalled by QPR
Doughty Refused a new contract
Maddison Criticised by Bowyer in the media the worst being "I don't care if he's seriously injured"
Williams Criticised by Bowyer in the media (praised as well at times) Rarely picked even when we're crying out for creativity & even as a sub when he's played well straight back on the bench next game. Wants to go to Cardiff
Last year
M.Bonne Brought from Non league, leading scorer for us in Championship but still criticised by Bowyer in the media.
Maybe some players aren't playing for him & can't wait to get out, possibly his man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Criticise players when needed but do it behind closed doors not on sky sports /newspapers.
😉2 -
You can buy a woman on Amazon ? I suppose with Millers closed that's brilliantCallumcafc said:
My order's arrived from Amazon - in the nick of time.Braziliance said:Seeing a lot of panic on the social media platforms. I am personally saving my panicking for later and I've got fresh sheets at the ready, always best to be prepared for deadline day
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And 2/3's of a finger on one hand.Off_it said:
We're signing Johnny Depp?Dazzler21 said:
If you have half the story you will form an opinion rightly or wrongly. More often than not it will be biased.ForeverAddickted said:
But thats why I dont know how people can criticise Lee when they only know half the storyDazzler21 said:
Well knowing both sides to an argument does change things.ForeverAddickted said:
Would you feel differently if you knew what Maddison had said was on public record?MuttleyCAFC said:What Bowyer said about Maddison is on public record. What Maddison has said about Bowyer isn't.
I might turn around as @Sage suggests and go "Oh okay if he's done that, that's completely unacceptable and I agree with Bowyer on this one"
Was no different when Chris Solly got vilified on here, people only had half the knowledge so he was the villain
Said it at the time, you cant go on Jury Service, hear one side of the story and then pass judgement.
I think there always has to be good reasons why a lot doesnt appear in the public domain
If you have none of it you cannot and as such we'd form assumptions as to what happened, which is wrong but is what always used to happen.
If you have both sides you're a lot more likely to form a fair opinion. So if one side comes out, the best solution to stop that happening is to let people know the full story.
See Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.
At first it was "oh my god Johnny Depp did that? I can see why the movie deals were pulled"
Then it was "oh my god she did what? that's disgusting, she should lose her movie deals too"
Now it's "they're both bad for one another and have both been very in the wrong him for x her for y, they're better off apart"
I cannot believe I have just used that as an argument, but it's there and I hate it. I want to know that my judgment is wrong when it is.
Hmm, not sure how I feel about that. He's got tattoos, hasn't he?
I have no Idea who was Heard and who was Depp in that analogy by the way.
Bowyer was probably Depp and Maddison Heard if it turns out what he has done is as bad as being suggested.0 -
Cannot believe the negativity of some on here, we have brought in good signings so far this window and although I am a big Jonny fan can understand his move if it happens. If anyone else comes in this evening great, if not I still have confidence that the squad we have assembled under a brilliant new owner can gain promotion under Bowyer and his staff. Keep the faith COYR
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I will re-iterate I think the reason people are concerned is right now it looks like we may lose both MM & JW (probably for the better for MM according to Sage and RC) and we may not replace them with anyone.
So long as we get in a decent replacement that can play their roles LM/CAM then I see it as a positive window on the whole.
Bow and Gallen will get my congratulations.5 -
If somebody was only giving one side of the story I'd certainly want my side put out.....good or bad.Covered End said:
Why?golfaddick said:
Then people who know the whole story should say.ForeverAddickted said:
But thats why I dont know how people can criticise Lee when they only know half the storyDazzler21 said:
Well knowing both sides to an argument does change things.ForeverAddickted said:
Would you feel differently if you knew what Maddison had said was on public record?MuttleyCAFC said:What Bowyer said about Maddison is on public record. What Maddison has said about Bowyer isn't.
I might turn around as @Sage suggests and go "Oh okay if he's done that, that's completely unacceptable and I agree with Bowyer on this one"
Was no different when Chris Solly got vilified on here, people only had half the knowledge so he was the villain
Said it at the time, you cant go on Jury Service, hear one side of the story and then pass judgement.
I think there always has to be good reasons why a lot doesnt appear in the public domain
Should we put all your work history problems in the public domain?
But enough of Maddison. @Sage has said what he knows & it appears that things haven't been good for a while. Probably best for all to move on.6 -
And we still haven't heard what happened between Bowyer and Solly. I was 100% behind Bowyer on that one, but am having slight doubts nowDazzler21 said:
He didn't call for Bowyer's job, just to criticise behind closed doors. Imagine working for a big multinational and you do something wrong and it gets sent out to the whole organisation and investors etc... It'd be called bullying as you wouldn't be allowed to challenge it and if you were, you'd be told where the door is.cafc_se7 said:
So what are you getting at? In an ideal world what would you do? And let’s be frank who would you bring in to replace Bow?charltonbob said:
Or to look at an alternativeForeverAddickted said:Got a feeling this is just the beginning for a large part of the squad
Maddison especially going to Bolton will be a big message to the players that remain
Perform and represent the club to the standards we expect or we'll shed no tears about getting rid of you in the summer
Outgoings /possible outgoings in the window:
Bogle Nowhere near good enough but has suffered from Bowyers put downs in the media when Bowyer must have known what he was getting when he signed him.
Smyth Recalled by QPR
Doughty Refused a new contract
Maddison Criticised by Bowyer in the media the worst being "I don't care if he's seriously injured"
Williams Criticised by Bowyer in the media (praised as well at times) Rarely picked even when we're crying out for creativity & even as a sub when he's played well straight back on the bench next game. Wants to go to Cardiff
Last year
M.Bonne Brought from Non league, leading scorer for us in Championship but still criticised by Bowyer in the media.
Maybe some players aren't playing for him & can't wait to get out, possibly his man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Criticise players when needed but do it behind closed doors not on sky sports /newspapers.
FWIW I don't want Bowyer gone either, despite many people's views. I have seen a positive turn of late and hopefully that is down to Bowyer's actions. He cannot and should not be beyond criticism though. He is an employee of the club and should be treated as fairly as the players are.
Managers and players careers thrive or burn based upon how they conduct themselves. If Bowyer shows he is learning (as it has seemed lately) then of course he continues to get support.3 -
Got a mate in Peterborough, when I visit we'll go and watch a match at London Road. I've seen a couple matches Maddison played in, not last season. Like anything it's possible that those two matches didn't constitute full knowledge on Posh fans attitude towards him. But even when Posh were playing poorly and had no good strikers, no one in the home end was criticising him or his effort off the ball: Plenty of criticism elsewhere.Exiled_Addick said:Another thing on Maddison. Half of Posh’s fans couldn’t stand him. Can you imagine having a midfielder who regularly got 20 to 30 goals + assists in a season and him not be universally liked, or even be thought of as one of the club’s best ever players? What kind of almighty great tool must you have to be to be that good and still disliked by your own
supporters?
I suspect the only thing Bowyer is guilty of here is hubris in thinking he could be the one to change Maddison into a functioning human being.
All the negative rumours I saw in message boards was after he refused to sign a contract. If he was toxic in the dressing room, the rumours would have been flying around well before and his ex manager wouldn't have signed him for Hull. It seems that he's always been a bit difficult going back to Gateshead, but I wouldn't trust a bunch of fan's opinions after a player's pushed a move at their club's expense0
