What Bowyer said about Maddison is on public record. What Maddison has said about Bowyer isn't.
Would you feel differently if you knew what Maddison had said was on public record?
Well knowing both sides to an argument does change things.
I might turn around as @Sage suggests and go "Oh okay if he's done that, that's completely unacceptable and I agree with Bowyer on this one"
But thats why I dont know how people can criticise Lee when they only know half the story
Was no different when Chris Solly got vilified on here, people only had half the knowledge so he was the villain
Said it at the time, you cant go on Jury Service, hear one side of the story and then pass judgement.
I think there always has to be good reasons why a lot doesnt appear in the public domain
If you have half the story you will form an opinion rightly or wrongly. More often than not it will be biased.
If you have none of it you cannot and as such we'd form assumptions as to what happened, which is wrong but is what always used to happen.
If you have both sides you're a lot more likely to form a fair opinion. So if one side comes out, the best solution to stop that happening is to let people know the full story.
See Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.
At first it was "oh my god Johnny Depp did that? I can see why the movie deals were pulled"
Then it was "oh my god she did what? that's disgusting, she should lose her movie deals too"
Now it's "they're both bad for one another and have both been very in the wrong him for x her for y, they're better off apart"
I cannot believe I have just used that as an argument, but it's there and I hate it. I want to know that my judgment is wrong when it is.
We're signing Johnny Depp?
Hmm, not sure how I feel about that. He's got tattoos, hasn't he?
Got a feeling this is just the beginning for a large part of the squad
Maddison especially going to Bolton will be a big message to the players that remain
Perform and represent the club to the standards we expect or we'll shed no tears about getting rid of you in the summer
Or to look at an alternative
Outgoings /possible outgoings in the window:
Bogle Nowhere near good enough but has suffered from Bowyers put downs in the media when Bowyer must have known what he was getting when he signed him.
Smyth Recalled by QPR
Doughty Refused a new contract
Maddison Criticised by Bowyer in the media the worst being "I don't care if he's seriously injured"
Williams Criticised by Bowyer in the media (praised as well at times) Rarely picked even when we're crying out for creativity & even as a sub when he's played well straight back on the bench next game. Wants to go to Cardiff
Last year M.Bonne Brought from Non league, leading scorer for us in Championship but still criticised by Bowyer in the media.
Maybe some players aren't playing for him & can't wait to get out, possibly his man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Criticise players when needed but do it behind closed doors not on sky sports /newspapers.
Nah, firm management of those who cannot reach the required standard of performance set by Bowyer. Sidelining the weak and disruptive elements so they do not contaminate the team that can. Making it public so everyone knows that those who do not put in the effort have their issues addressed and that shirking is not acceptable. Isolating them gives those that can a huge lift in knowing that they are better, plus the knowledge that they will not need to carry them improves performance. Increases togetherness and team spirit. Strength is the team, and the best team wins. No individual can be allowed to disrupt that. 😉
Seeing a lot of panic on the social media platforms. I am personally saving my panicking for later and I've got fresh sheets at the ready, always best to be prepared for deadline day
My order's arrived from Amazon - in the nick of time.
You can buy a woman on Amazon ? I suppose with Millers closed that's brilliant
What Bowyer said about Maddison is on public record. What Maddison has said about Bowyer isn't.
Would you feel differently if you knew what Maddison had said was on public record?
Well knowing both sides to an argument does change things.
I might turn around as @Sage suggests and go "Oh okay if he's done that, that's completely unacceptable and I agree with Bowyer on this one"
But thats why I dont know how people can criticise Lee when they only know half the story
Was no different when Chris Solly got vilified on here, people only had half the knowledge so he was the villain
Said it at the time, you cant go on Jury Service, hear one side of the story and then pass judgement.
I think there always has to be good reasons why a lot doesnt appear in the public domain
If you have half the story you will form an opinion rightly or wrongly. More often than not it will be biased.
If you have none of it you cannot and as such we'd form assumptions as to what happened, which is wrong but is what always used to happen.
If you have both sides you're a lot more likely to form a fair opinion. So if one side comes out, the best solution to stop that happening is to let people know the full story.
See Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.
At first it was "oh my god Johnny Depp did that? I can see why the movie deals were pulled"
Then it was "oh my god she did what? that's disgusting, she should lose her movie deals too"
Now it's "they're both bad for one another and have both been very in the wrong him for x her for y, they're better off apart"
I cannot believe I have just used that as an argument, but it's there and I hate it. I want to know that my judgment is wrong when it is.
We're signing Johnny Depp?
Hmm, not sure how I feel about that. He's got tattoos, hasn't he?
And 2/3's of a finger on one hand.
I have no Idea who was Heard and who was Depp in that analogy by the way.
Bowyer was probably Depp and Maddison Heard if it turns out what he has done is as bad as being suggested.
Cannot believe the negativity of some on here, we have brought in good signings so far this window and although I am a big Jonny fan can understand his move if it happens. If anyone else comes in this evening great, if not I still have confidence that the squad we have assembled under a brilliant new owner can gain promotion under Bowyer and his staff. Keep the faith COYR
I will re-iterate I think the reason people are concerned is right now it looks like we may lose both MM & JW (probably for the better for MM according to Sage and RC) and we may not replace them with anyone.
So long as we get in a decent replacement that can play their roles LM/CAM then I see it as a positive window on the whole.
Got a feeling this is just the beginning for a large part of the squad
Maddison especially going to Bolton will be a big message to the players that remain
Perform and represent the club to the standards we expect or we'll shed no tears about getting rid of you in the summer
Or to look at an alternative
Outgoings /possible outgoings in the window:
Bogle Nowhere near good enough but has suffered from Bowyers put downs in the media when Bowyer must have known what he was getting when he signed him.
Smyth Recalled by QPR
Doughty Refused a new contract
Maddison Criticised by Bowyer in the media the worst being "I don't care if he's seriously injured"
Williams Criticised by Bowyer in the media (praised as well at times) Rarely picked even when we're crying out for creativity & even as a sub when he's played well straight back on the bench next game. Wants to go to Cardiff
Last year M.Bonne Brought from Non league, leading scorer for us in Championship but still criticised by Bowyer in the media.
Maybe some players aren't playing for him & can't wait to get out, possibly his man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Criticise players when needed but do it behind closed doors not on sky sports /newspapers.
So what are you getting at? In an ideal world what would you do? And let’s be frank who would you bring in to replace Bow?
He didn't call for Bowyer's job, just to criticise behind closed doors. Imagine working for a big multinational and you do something wrong and it gets sent out to the whole organisation and investors etc... It'd be called bullying as you wouldn't be allowed to challenge it and if you were, you'd be told where the door is.
FWIW I don't want Bowyer gone either, despite many people's views. I have seen a positive turn of late and hopefully that is down to Bowyer's actions. He cannot and should not be beyond criticism though. He is an employee of the club and should be treated as fairly as the players are.
Managers and players careers thrive or burn based upon how they conduct themselves. If Bowyer shows he is learning (as it has seemed lately) then of course he continues to get support.
And we still haven't heard what happened between Bowyer and Solly. I was 100% behind Bowyer on that one, but am having slight doubts now
Another thing on Maddison. Half of Posh’s fans couldn’t stand him. Can you imagine having a midfielder who regularly got 20 to 30 goals + assists in a season and him not be universally liked, or even be thought of as one of the club’s best ever players? What kind of almighty great tool must you have to be to be that good and still disliked by your own supporters?
I suspect the only thing Bowyer is guilty of here is hubris in thinking he could be the one to change Maddison into a functioning human being.
Got a mate in Peterborough, when I visit we'll go and watch a match at London Road. I've seen a couple matches Maddison played in, not last season. Like anything it's possible that those two matches didn't constitute full knowledge on Posh fans attitude towards him. But even when Posh were playing poorly and had no good strikers, no one in the home end was criticising him or his effort off the ball: Plenty of criticism elsewhere.
All the negative rumours I saw in message boards was after he refused to sign a contract. If he was toxic in the dressing room, the rumours would have been flying around well before and his ex manager wouldn't have signed him for Hull. It seems that he's always been a bit difficult going back to Gateshead, but I wouldn't trust a bunch of fan's opinions after a player's pushed a move at their club's expense
Got a feeling this is just the beginning for a large part of the squad
Maddison especially going to Bolton will be a big message to the players that remain
Perform and represent the club to the standards we expect or we'll shed no tears about getting rid of you in the summer
Or to look at an alternative
Outgoings /possible outgoings in the window:
Bogle Nowhere near good enough but has suffered from Bowyers put downs in the media when Bowyer must have known what he was getting when he signed him.
Smyth Recalled by QPR
Doughty Refused a new contract
Maddison Criticised by Bowyer in the media the worst being "I don't care if he's seriously injured"
Williams Criticised by Bowyer in the media (praised as well at times) Rarely picked even when we're crying out for creativity & even as a sub when he's played well straight back on the bench next game. Wants to go to Cardiff
Last year M.Bonne Brought from Non league, leading scorer for us in Championship but still criticised by Bowyer in the media.
Maybe some players aren't playing for him & can't wait to get out, possibly his man management skills leave a lot to be desired. Criticise players when needed but do it behind closed doors not on sky sports /newspapers.
Nah, firm management of those who cannot reach the required standard of performance set by Bowyer. Sidelining the weak and disruptive elements so they do not contaminate the team that can. Making it public so everyone knows that those who do not put in the effort have their issues addressed and that shirking is not acceptable. Isolating them gives those that can a huge lift in knowing that they are better, plus the knowledge that they will not need to carry them improves performance. Increases togetherness and team spirit. Strength is the team, and the best team wins. No individual can be allowed to disrupt that. 😉
What Bowyer said about Maddison is on public record. What Maddison has said about Bowyer isn't.
Would you feel differently if you knew what Maddison had said was on public record?
Well knowing both sides to an argument does change things.
I might turn around as @Sage suggests and go "Oh okay if he's done that, that's completely unacceptable and I agree with Bowyer on this one"
But thats why I dont know how people can criticise Lee when they only know half the story
Was no different when Chris Solly got vilified on here, people only had half the knowledge so he was the villain
Said it at the time, you cant go on Jury Service, hear one side of the story and then pass judgement.
I think there always has to be good reasons why a lot doesnt appear in the public domain
Then people who know the whole story should say.
Well then thats their right to tell or not ... Not mine to say it on their behalf
Wasnt there a comment about Dr Kish who knew about Coquelin (?) being recalled by Arsenal, didnt want his source at Sparrows Lane to get in trouble for passing on what was confidential information so "leaked" it to some Arsenal fan so they could report it as their own news.
Yes.
Chris Thompson was more interested in getting the information to everyone than score a cheap exclusive.
I’m not here to score a cheap exclusive. I’ve sat on this information for a few days at least, other members on here can verify that. I even PM a lifer on here to say I’m going to take the stick that will come and put out a post that will let people know it all comes down to Maddison and that Bowyer is not at fault.
People can be annoyed and rather I not say anything that’s genuinely fine with me. But I recognise that many others would be interested and appreciate it.
I appreciate all your insider input around injuries etc, but this feels like someone in the Bowyer camp is trying to keep you onside. If it's that bad it should be public knowledge of those that support the club and put money into it.
This is some real conspiracy theorist twisting. Sage has never posted anything like this before and I'm inclined to believe them. Which is more likely: the so-called 'Bowyer camp' have started feeding fake tidbits of information to forum users to create a conspiracy so a player who's played 8 games can be bundled out of the club without the fans rioting, or you've spent the day criticising Bowyer and Loling posts that you don't agree with and now might be feeling a bit silly if it turns out Maddison leaving is down to him not behaving himself properly, which is something he has a storied history of?
What I heard is that he has pretended to be injured on numerous occasions in training and trudged off to the medical room and left the other players training. He's then on his arse in bed later on with no confirmed injury and posting bollox on social media. Imagine players seeing a team mate do that not once but twice hasn't gone down well. The medical team know he's a lazy bullshitter, the manager knows it, and now the players know it.
I heard similar, heard he refused a scan after his so called injury in the game he was hauled off for shirking out of a challenge.
I really rate his talent, just appears to be everything else about him is not right for Charlton which is a great shame really.
What I think a few users could do with a little self reminder on is that sometimes less can be more. We do seem to be getting an increase of the same people making the same points. Not specific to this thread, also across the Charlton ones as well. Sometimes a little bit of keeping yourself in check to ensure you’re not dominating a thread or topic can go a long way. We’re all guilty of it at times.
What I think a few users could do with a little self reminder on is that sometimes less can be more. We do seem to be getting an increase of the same people making the same points. Not specific to this thread, also across the Charlton ones as well. Sometimes a little bit of keeping yourself in check to ensure you’re not dominating a thread or topic can go a long way. We’re all guilty of it at times.
What Bowyer said about Maddison is on public record. What Maddison has said about Bowyer isn't.
Would you feel differently if you knew what Maddison had said was on public record?
Well knowing both sides to an argument does change things.
I might turn around as @Sage suggests and go "Oh okay if he's done that, that's completely unacceptable and I agree with Bowyer on this one"
But thats why I dont know how people can criticise Lee when they only know half the story
Was no different when Chris Solly got vilified on here, people only had half the knowledge so he was the villain
Said it at the time, you cant go on Jury Service, hear one side of the story and then pass judgement.
I think there always has to be good reasons why a lot doesnt appear in the public domain
Then people who know the whole story should say.
Well then thats their right to tell or not ... Not mine to say it on their behalf
Wasnt there a comment about Dr Kish who knew about Coquelin (?) being recalled by Arsenal, didnt want his source at Sparrows Lane to get in trouble for passing on what was confidential information so "leaked" it to some Arsenal fan so they could report it as their own news.
Yes.
Chris Thompson was more interested in getting the information to everyone than score a cheap exclusive.
I’m not here to score a cheap exclusive. I’ve sat on this information for a few days at least, other members on here can verify that. I even PM a lifer on here to say I’m going to take the stick that will come and put out a post that will let people know it all comes down to Maddison and that Bowyer is not at fault.
People can be annoyed and rather I not say anything that’s genuinely fine with me. But I recognise that many others would be interested and appreciate it.
I appreciate all your insider input around injuries etc, but this feels like someone in the Bowyer camp is trying to keep you onside. If it's that bad it should be public knowledge of those that support the club and put money into it.
This is some real conspiracy theorist twisting. Sage has never posted anything like this before and I'm inclined to believe them. Which is more likely: the so-called 'Bowyer camp' have started feeding fake tidbits of information to forum users to create a conspiracy so a player who's played 8 games can be bundled out of the club without the fans rioting, or you've spent the day criticising Bowyer and Loling posts that you don't agree with and now might be feeling a bit silly if it turns out Maddison leaving is down to him not behaving himself properly, which is something he has a storied history of?
What I heard is that he has pretended to be injured on numerous occasions in training and trudged off to the medical room and left the other players training. He's then on his arse in bed later on with no confirmed injury and posting bollox on social media. Imagine players seeing a team mate do that not once but twice hasn't gone down well. The medical team know he's a lazy bullshitter, the manager knows it, and now the players know it.
Everyone knows it bar a couple of people who inexplicably condone it. But if you're spearheading the Bowyer out campaign I suppose you don't want to lose face.
Looks like we’ve been keeping our poker face throughout the day, we’re at a point now where teams can call our bluff and make us pay up or we’ll end up empty handed.
I will re-iterate I think the reason people are concerned is right now it looks like we may lose both MM & JW (probably for the better for MM according to Sage and RC) and we may not replace them with anyone.
So long as we get in a decent replacement that can play their roles LM/CAM then I see it as a positive window on the whole.
Bow and Gallen will get my congratulations.
Completely agree and I would be a bit disappointed if we don't manage to bring someone else to replace. On the whole though I don't think we can view the window as a bad one regardless and some of the concern is probably a form of PTSD following what we have experienced under previous owners.
Comments
Bowyer OUT
And @Dazzler21 also!
Hmm, not sure how I feel about that. He's got tattoos, hasn't he?
😉
I have no Idea who was Heard and who was Depp in that analogy by the way.
Bowyer was probably Depp and Maddison Heard if it turns out what he has done is as bad as being suggested.
Cannot believe the negativity of some on here, we have brought in good signings so far this window and although I am a big Jonny fan can understand his move if it happens. If anyone else comes in this evening great, if not I still have confidence that the squad we have assembled under a brilliant new owner can gain promotion under Bowyer and his staff. Keep the faith COYR
So long as we get in a decent replacement that can play their roles LM/CAM then I see it as a positive window on the whole.
Bow and Gallen will get my congratulations.
But enough of Maddison. @Sage has said what he knows & it appears that things haven't been good for a while. Probably best for all to move on.
All the negative rumours I saw in message boards was after he refused to sign a contract. If he was toxic in the dressing room, the rumours would have been flying around well before and his ex manager wouldn't have signed him for Hull. It seems that he's always been a bit difficult going back to Gateshead, but I wouldn't trust a bunch of fan's opinions after a player's pushed a move at their club's expense
’blokes talented but a massive prick who loves shit tattoos and 3am McDonald’s runs’
I really rate his talent, just appears to be everything else about him is not right for Charlton which is a great shame really.
But if you're spearheading the Bowyer out campaign I suppose you don't want to lose face.
2 players who know we don;t want them, left to wander around the training ground? Can't imagine Maddison's attitude will get better in that situation.
Plan E ???
Better for them and us that they don't hang around like a bad smell if that situation occurs.
Also a good lesson for the management team all the way up to TS about replacing players adequately before selling/moving on what you have.