The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
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If I was buying Charlton, and assuming I was knowledgeable about the history of the club, I would think twice before unseating an incumbent manager who clearly has the goodwill of the fans behind him.
If we win two or three games and find ourselves in the playoff places, you’d be taking a big risk if you imposed an outsider on the club. It wouldn’t be fair on the newcomer for a start.12 -
My thoughts exactly on the Bowyer/Kewell debate.JamesSeed said:If I was buying Charlton, and assuming I was knowledgeable about the history of the club, I would think twice before unseating an incumbent manager who clearly has the goodwill of the fans behind him.
If we win two or three games and find ourselves in the playoff places, you’d be taking a big risk if you imposed an outsider on the club. It wouldn’t be fair on the newcomer for a start.1 -
Duche is busily providing new data..NapaAddick said:
The data shows it makes no difference to success as a manager. Neither does whether they were a good footballer or not. Following evidence is not "Americanism"... it is being "rational" and knowing the difference between reality and nonsense.WestCountryAddick said:
It's COULDN'T care less... The only Americanism that makes my blood boil because their way makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.NapaAddick said:
I could care less about whether a new manager has any "connection to the club." I think this silly policy has set back English football for ages. I want the best qualified and most likely to do well for the job we are hiring for. English football is the only place where fans want ex-players to run their clubs even though data is overwhelming that such has no bearing on success as a manager.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:It would be mad if Kewell was installed as manager - his only qualification seems to be that he's Australian. He doesn't have any connection to our club and doesn't have a record of success as a manager.
Now, as to the point "he has no record of success as a manager"... on that I agree.2 -
At the end of the day, experience differs, whoever you get in (Slade was "experience"). But re. HK; I'm not sceptical about him, I just think Bow and JJ could turn out to be an effective partnerships. I also fear for both of their CAFC futures, if they are overlooked.LargeAddick said:I don't get the scepticism over Kewell. He's got more managerial experience than Bowyer, who most would seem to accept, although to be fair Bowyer has more experience in running a fishing lake in France. If Kewell was British this discussion wouldn't be happening. I've no idea if Kewell is the right man for the job but then again I've no idea if Bowyer is. If Kewell gets the job I'm prepared to accept it. I'd rather him than a has been like Robinson, Slade etc.
If roles were reversed and it was HK who had played for the club and been behind the scenes for the last couple of years, I'd be saying the same as, at this stage in both of their managerial careers, there can't be a lot in it4 -
I don't really care who our manager is so long as we win the next 9 and are taken over on the 5th April - No earlier and certainly no later...5
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If there are people with experience of football at the top of the club, they're not going to take getting league time for some Aussie youngsters over success on the pitch. Not to mention they will struggle with work permits, something that RD didn't have to consider (with one very notable management exception). I very much doubt they'd employ their choice of manager and then tell them who to pick or what formation to choose either. If they did, it would be an Aussie no mark, not a guy that has been working in England longer than some posters have been alive!*
*this may not be quite right, can't be arsed to check but it must be close1 -
I get that too which is why the new owner has a conundrum to solve.JamesSeed said:If I was buying Charlton, and assuming I was knowledgeable about the history of the club, I would think twice before unseating an incumbent manager who clearly has the goodwill of the fans behind him.
If we win two or three games and find ourselves in the playoff places, you’d be taking a big risk if you imposed an outsider on the club. It wouldn’t be fair on the newcomer for a start.
Playing devil's advocate for a minute. Let's say there was a takeover today and they said that Bow and JJ would remain until the end of the season and then see. Let's then say we fell away a bit and finished 9th. Would everyone be ok with appointing Kewell then?
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Not really given Bow and Jacko much of a chance though has it?LargeAddick said:
I get that too which is why the new owner has a conundrum to solve.JamesSeed said:If I was buying Charlton, and assuming I was knowledgeable about the history of the club, I would think twice before unseating an incumbent manager who clearly has the goodwill of the fans behind him.
If we win two or three games and find ourselves in the playoff places, you’d be taking a big risk if you imposed an outsider on the club. It wouldn’t be fair on the newcomer for a start.
Playing devil's advocate for a minute. Let's say there was a takeover today and they said that Bow and JJ would remain until the end of the season and then see. Let's then say we fell away a bit and finished 9th. Would everyone be ok with appointing Kewell then?
Someone needs to be brave. Pick a manager with the right qualities and stick with them.1 -
I'm assuming you lost your wifi connection before you could finish your sentence so I've helpfully done it for you.superclive said:He might be our new gaffer tape.
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Most people seem to be assuming that because Lee Bowyer is currently in charge he wants to continue in charge. I’m not sure that’s necessarily true - in fact he may not even know himself.carly burn said:
Not really given Bow and Jacko much of a chance though has it?LargeAddick said:
I get that too which is why the new owner has a conundrum to solve.JamesSeed said:If I was buying Charlton, and assuming I was knowledgeable about the history of the club, I would think twice before unseating an incumbent manager who clearly has the goodwill of the fans behind him.
If we win two or three games and find ourselves in the playoff places, you’d be taking a big risk if you imposed an outsider on the club. It wouldn’t be fair on the newcomer for a start.
Playing devil's advocate for a minute. Let's say there was a takeover today and they said that Bow and JJ would remain until the end of the season and then see. Let's then say we fell away a bit and finished 9th. Would everyone be ok with appointing Kewell then?
Someone needs to be brave. Pick a manager with the right qualities and stick with them.5 - Sponsored links:
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If there is any truth in Powell being the new owners first choice, then I think they are obviously aware of the need to rekindle the passions of the fan base.
I therefore think that if CP is not available then they will go with the next best option and keep Bow/ JJ until the end of the season.
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True, though even when bringing in someone the fans will accept it's hard. Remember when Parky was sacked and Powell was brought in? We were 5th in League One at the time and despite Powell winning a couple of his opening games, we dropped right out of play-off contention. There were murmurings then of what a mistake we had made, but many were willing to accept a poor finish to the season with the hope that something could be rebuilt during the summer, which of course it was.JamesSeed said:If I was buying Charlton, and assuming I was knowledgeable about the history of the club, I would think twice before unseating an incumbent manager who clearly has the goodwill of the fans behind him.
If we win two or three games and find ourselves in the playoff places, you’d be taking a big risk if you imposed an outsider on the club. It wouldn’t be fair on the newcomer for a start.
Kewell would be far less likely to get the benefit of the doubt from the fans, because he isn't a Charlton man, and many will feel that he was only brought in because of the Australian connection. If the new owners are indeed the Australians, they need to be very careful about this appointment, because with recent history and Duchatelet appointing his fellow countrymen, some fans may not be happy from the outset.2 -
Same as HK, he might be happy at Crawley, but assuming Bow did, I'd sooner stick with him and JJAirman Brown said:
Most people seem to be assuming that because Lee Bowyer is currently in charge he wants to continue in charge. I’m not sure that’s necessarily true - in fact he may not even know himself.carly burn said:
Not really given Bow and Jacko much of a chance though has it?LargeAddick said:
I get that too which is why the new owner has a conundrum to solve.JamesSeed said:If I was buying Charlton, and assuming I was knowledgeable about the history of the club, I would think twice before unseating an incumbent manager who clearly has the goodwill of the fans behind him.
If we win two or three games and find ourselves in the playoff places, you’d be taking a big risk if you imposed an outsider on the club. It wouldn’t be fair on the newcomer for a start.
Playing devil's advocate for a minute. Let's say there was a takeover today and they said that Bow and JJ would remain until the end of the season and then see. Let's then say we fell away a bit and finished 9th. Would everyone be ok with appointing Kewell then?
Someone needs to be brave. Pick a manager with the right qualities and stick with them.2 -
A cheat of Australians2
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Things are never straight forward though and we are all guilty of making new judgements at different points in time. That’s because we are just distant observers to the process.
I suspect there definitely is legs to the Kewell rumours.
Let’s work out some guesswork into chronological order
- they have been on the scene and potentially acquiring for almost 12 months.
- rumour suggest having done their homework they had identified Chris Powell as the right man for when they take charge. Powell probably met their main guy / delegate and had a number of follow up conversations
- This rumbled on far longer than intended. Whether through the Aussies not having finance in place, other parties expressing interest or Roland just messing the process around, who knows.
- in the meantime Powell was probably getting itchy feet. Was kept being reassured ‘soon’ but he was probably losing conviction that soon will ever emerge. In the meantime, the Southend job was put to him. Not his number one hope, but not much further down the list either. League One club in driving distance who he has a great history with. In the end he thought it was too good an opportunity to miss out on with the possibility that the Aussies may not even be successful in acquiring
- The Aussies are now back to square one. They look again at it on who they want to install. Kewell is perceived to be doing well at Crawley, who are not going crazy but definitely outperforming expectations and playing good football with it. Compatriot as well, through Sport Australia there are likely to be some known links so may well be personal history. Kewell has known friendship with Bowyer so there is also probably some discussion / information sharing going on behind the scenes whilst Robinson is manager.
- Aussies speak with Kewell, both agree that if the takeover happens they can work together and a gentleman’s agreement is formed
- in the meantime, like Meire, unexpectedly Robbo ups sticks and walks. This wasn’t planned in the Aussies roadmap. Bowyer, who possibly might have been identified and happy to become Kewell’s Assistant, gets asked to step in for very short-term, hopefully only one game.
- Charlton smash it out the park, Bowyer is now a hero and the next Fergie, and Charlton fans say they don’t want Kewell, they want Bowyer (who was either going to be out the door or the assistant).
So what do the Aussies do if successful? Go back on what they had researched and agreed with Kewell? Based on one result?
The above is based on no knowledge but what I consider a not unreasonable ‘guess scenario’.
Not straight forward is it? Honesty and trust is very important in every business and football is no different19 -
A ball-scratching of Australians (particularly in a cautionary sense when referencing clusters of Australian women at a night club)1
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I know it's only been pointed out a few hundred times, but these Aussie youngster's would not get work permits.carly burn said:You'd have to say from reading the spiel on the Oz consortium website that a big part of their plans is to make whichever club they choose a household name in Australia. To do that,and I'm just speculating here, the whole set up will need a real Australian flavour to give the club some appeal back home, hence the arrival of Kewell. This would be followed I guess with a fair smuttering of Australian youngsters filtering through the academy and probably more coaches with an Oz background and sporting philosophy.
Whether that really is the best way forward for this club only time will tell I guess. The distance between the two different spheres of interest couldn't be worse geographically in my opinion.
There will be a fair amount of scepticism around on the Charlton supporters part and rightly so.
Yes it's not Duchatelet. But could we be moving from one harebraned scheme to another??3 -
I would presume that Kewell was supposed to replace Robinson when/if they takeover,him walking and being replaced by Bowyer/JJ and them winning first game and being popular with supporters gives them a headache now,for me id stick with them till end of season at least,appointing Kewell would be unpopular with a lot of supporters in my opinion.2
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Me too......and I lived in California for 3 years, never heard anyone use that expression.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
And I've gotta be honest, the first time I've ever heard of it was in the above post.Stig said:
I've got to be honest, before this thread I never realised that, 'could care less' was a saying used by anyone. I thought it was just a typo because it makes no sense.thenewbie said:
Think you just got "whooshed" Napa! "Could care less" is the Americanism referred to...NapaAddick said:
The data shows it makes no difference to success as a manager. Neither does whether they were a good footballer or not. Following evidence is not "Americanism"... it is being "rational" and knowing the difference between reality and nonsense.WestCountryAddick said:
It's COULDN'T care less... The only Americanism that makes my blood boil because their way makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.NapaAddick said:
I could care less about whether a new manager has any "connection to the club." I think this silly policy has set back English football for ages. I want the best qualified and most likely to do well for the job we are hiring for. English football is the only place where fans want ex-players to run their clubs even though data is overwhelming that such has no bearing on success as a manager.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:It would be mad if Kewell was installed as manager - his only qualification seems to be that he's Australian. He doesn't have any connection to our club and doesn't have a record of success as a manager.
Now, as to the point "he has no record of success as a manager"... on that I agree.0 - Sponsored links:
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Kewell would be a decent assistant manager, perhaps. If it all went wrong he'd be ready to step in.
I suppose if Bowyer was Kewell's assistant, the same would apply.0 -
Nail on the head. If they've been paying any attention to Charlton at all over the last year or two, they'll leave Bowyer and Jackson in place until the end of the season at least. Hopefully with Paul Elliott involved they'll be more sensible than Duchatelet.JamesSeed said:If I was buying Charlton, and assuming I was knowledgeable about the history of the club, I would think twice before unseating an incumbent manager who clearly has the goodwill of the fans behind him.
If we win two or three games and find ourselves in the playoff places, you’d be taking a big risk if you imposed an outsider on the club. It wouldn’t be fair on the newcomer for a start.1 -
Does it depend how young they come over here? We could sign them and loan out to a European country until they can get work permits. Or have I just played too much Football Manager?Stu_of_Kunming said:
I know it's only been pointed out a few hundred times, but these Aussie youngster's would not get work permits.carly burn said:You'd have to say from reading the spiel on the Oz consortium website that a big part of their plans is to make whichever club they choose a household name in Australia. To do that,and I'm just speculating here, the whole set up will need a real Australian flavour to give the club some appeal back home, hence the arrival of Kewell. This would be followed I guess with a fair smuttering of Australian youngsters filtering through the academy and probably more coaches with an Oz background and sporting philosophy.
Whether that really is the best way forward for this club only time will tell I guess. The distance between the two different spheres of interest couldn't be worse geographically in my opinion.
There will be a fair amount of scepticism around on the Charlton supporters part and rightly so.
Yes it's not Duchatelet. But could we be moving from one harebraned scheme to another??0 -
Good points. But, if there is anything at all in the Twitter reports, maybe a contract has already been signed by HK...making the situation all a bit strained...bertpalmer said:I would presume that Kewell was supposed to replace Robinson when/if they takeover,him walking and being replaced by Bowyer/JJ and them winning first game and being popular with supporters gives them a headache now,for me id stick with them till end of season at least,appointing Kewell would be unpopular with a lot of supporters in my opinion.
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To be fair to the Australians they probably had lined up a manager well before Robinson left. Not thinking they would actually have to change it from a popular Charlton man.3
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exactly how I see things and I think that if the Aussies do take-over we will have a coaching triumvate of Kewell (Manager), Bow (Asst Mgr) and JJ (first team coach). What's not to like?AFKABartram said:Things are never straight forward though and we are all guilty of making new judgements at different points in time. That’s because we are just distant observers to the process.
I suspect there definitely is legs to the Kewell rumours.
Let’s work out some guesswork into chronological order
- they have been on the scene and potentially acquiring for almost 12 months.
- rumour suggest having done their homework they had identified Chris Powell as the right man for when they take charge. Powell probably met their main guy / delegate and had a number of follow up conversations
- This rumbled on far longer than intended. Whether through the Aussies not having finance in place, other parties expressing interest or Roland just messing the process around, who knows.
- in the meantime Powell was probably getting itchy feet. Was kept being reassured ‘soon’ but he was probably losing conviction that soon will ever emerge. In the meantime, the Southend job was put to him. Not his number one hope, but not much further down the list either. League One club in driving distance who he has a great history with. In the end he thought it was too good an opportunity to miss out on with the possibility that the Aussies may not even be successful in acquiring
- The Aussies are now back to square one. They look again at it on who they want to install. Kewell is perceived to be doing well at Crawley, who are not going crazy but definitely outperforming expectations and playing good football with it. Compatriot as well, through Sport Australia there are likely to be some known links so may well be personal history. Kewell has known friendship with Bowyer so there is also probably some discussion / information sharing going on behind the scenes whilst Robinson is manager.
- Aussies speak with Kewell, both agree that if the takeover happens they can work together and a gentleman’s agreement is formed
- in the meantime, like Meire, unexpectedly Robbo ups sticks and walks. This wasn’t planned in the Aussies roadmap. Bowyer, who possibly might have been identified and happy to become Kewell’s Assistant, gets asked to step in for very short-term, hopefully only one game.
- Charlton smash it out the park, Bowyer is now a hero and the next Fergie, and Charlton fans say they don’t want Kewell, they want Bowyer (who was either going to be out the door or the assistant).
So what do the Aussies do if successful? Go back on what they had researched and agreed with Kewell? Based on one result?
The above is based on no knowledge but what I consider a not unreasonable ‘guess scenario’.
Not straight forward is it? Honesty and trust is very important in every business and football is no different
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Really bad timing this week for someone asking the Australian public to show some interest in a new sporting venture.7
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Airman Brown said:
Most people seem to be assuming that because Lee Bowyer is currently in charge he wants to continue in charge. I’m not sure that’s necessarily true - in fact he may not even know himself.carly burn said:
Not really given Bow and Jacko much of a chance though has it?LargeAddick said:
I get that too which is why the new owner has a conundrum to solve.JamesSeed said:If I was buying Charlton, and assuming I was knowledgeable about the history of the club, I would think twice before unseating an incumbent manager who clearly has the goodwill of the fans behind him.
If we win two or three games and find ourselves in the playoff places, you’d be taking a big risk if you imposed an outsider on the club. It wouldn’t be fair on the newcomer for a start.
Playing devil's advocate for a minute. Let's say there was a takeover today and they said that Bow and JJ would remain until the end of the season and then see. Let's then say we fell away a bit and finished 9th. Would everyone be ok with appointing Kewell then?
Someone needs to be brave. Pick a manager with the right qualities and stick with them.
He doesn’t. But he clearly said he wants to carry on at least to the end of the season. Good enough for me and all round if you look at it logically.
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In which case he's been tapped up.cafc-west said:
Good points. But, if there is anything at all in the Twitter reports, maybe a contract has already been signed by HK...making the situation all a bit strained...bertpalmer said:I would presume that Kewell was supposed to replace Robinson when/if they takeover,him walking and being replaced by Bowyer/JJ and them winning first game and being popular with supporters gives them a headache now,for me id stick with them till end of season at least,appointing Kewell would be unpopular with a lot of supporters in my opinion.
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