I mean we sort of do need to move on from Curbs. No one can dispute that he’s a legend or anything he’s done for the club but football has moved on. Not just from Curbs but from all the managers that were successful back then. How many of the Prem managers from say 2005 still have good managerial jobs? Won’t be many. Football has changed but lots of our fans can’t seem to accept that. Curbs and Brownie getting us play 442 would probably make things worse and we don’t need their legacies tarnished like that
The club needs rebuilding and Curbs knows how to build a club and im sure hed pick better players than Andy Scott, how he is not employed in some sort of over seeing role at least, baffles me
- put up with the shit and support regardless of how shit they become - protest, but still put up with the shit - stay away but protest and complain [the camp I am in presently] in the hope it might change - give up on Charlton
Fans in the top group are dwindling away, so our club is fucked whilst these morons own it.
Appleton is useless, but we knew that before he arrived.
Mouthy Methven seems to have lost his voice, but he now needs to step up or even more fans will walk away.
By stepping up I mean.
- sack Appleton - employ a decent manager who will lead and inspire - return all the loanee dross we have - sign some real Div 1 hardnut players to compliment the youth - get rid of any player who cannot be arsed - keep Alfie and play him as a centre forward
It aint that difficult, but our club is blighted with wankers and half wits owning and managing it.
If we go with your option one, can we all make a collective effort to turn our smart phones on to torch mode at 85 minutes to give the players the message that they need to ‘switch on’. Please remember to have phones fully charged.
I mean we sort of do need to move on from Curbs. No one can dispute that he’s a legend or anything he’s done for the club but football has moved on. Not just from Curbs but from all the managers that were successful back then. How many of the Prem managers from say 2005 still have good managerial jobs? Won’t be many. Football has changed but lots of our fans can’t seem to accept that. Curbs and Brownie getting us play 442 would probably make things worse and we don’t need their legacies tarnished like that
The club needs rebuilding and Curbs knows how to build a club and im sure hed pick better players than Andy Scott, how he is not employed in some sort of over seeing role at least, baffles me
this I agree with more, I took the move on from Curbs thing to mean managing the team but he should definitely be involved in some sort of football advisory role. Just pop him on the board, would at least make fans happy
No one going to comment on what Apples said to @Braziliance (well done btw) about ‘we need to move on, from Curbs’.
What a fecking cheek. Why are we still clinging on to the one fella who made our football team play some of the best football we’ve ever seen? Because since he went we’ve had a fecking load of two bit chancers bring in two bit managers who couldn’t care less because they get a pay out & then move on to another poor club desperate for success.
So with that in mind, you can fecking move on Mr Apples, you Stone Island miserable fecking useless tosser.
Rant over………for now.
That’s got me thinking, who was the last manager to get us promoted out of any league that was not a former Charlton player?
Lennie Lawrence. He had been on the coaching staff before being appointed Manager.
The last Manager to get us promoted having had no previous relationship with the club was Andy Nelson.
No one going to comment on what Apples said to @Braziliance (well done btw) about ‘we need to move on, from Curbs’.
What a fecking cheek. Why are we still clinging on to the one fella who made our football team play some of the best football we’ve ever seen? Because since he went we’ve had a fecking load of two bit chancers bring in two bit managers who couldn’t care less because they get a pay out & then move on to another poor club desperate for success.
So with that in mind, you can fecking move on Mr Apples, you Stone Island miserable fecking useless tosser.
Rant over………for now.
That’s got me thinking, who was the last manager to get us promoted out of any league that was not a former Charlton player?
Lennie Lawrence. He had been on the coaching staff before being appointed Manager.
The last Manager to get us promoted having had no previous relationship with the club was Andy Nelson.
And Nelson got us up with a squad largely built by Theo Foley, an ex player.
I do agree that Appleton does not seem the most inspirational manager we have had,But last night he made the change and it worked Campbell assist Tedic goal.We should have got a point.Then as is usual,the whole team goes walkabout during a free kick about 10 yards from our area.The manager can do nothing at the time to prevent this,this is totally down to the players to get themselves organised and see the danger out.No one bothered,just look at CBT,why where our players on the edge of the area and not in the goal area .I know its a different level ,but watch Brighton and West Ham defend their leads in their games this week,that requires the level of commitment which we dont have.
Doing nothing means standing on the touchline hands in pockets silent, why wasn't he shouting at the players to get further back and defend the keeper, not brain science. Man has no chance of improving this team, devoid of any personality and people moaned about Lee Bowyer at least he had guts. Great interview Braziliance but you were too soft with him, I realise you were in an awkward position. I just can't understand anyone defending this journeyman beige guy!
I agree with you mate, as much as the players like him, that may suit them. Too many late goals conceded.
In regards to too soft, it is genuinely because of his approach, even when I got emotional and got more animated he was very relaxed and simply said he's been short changed. I sympathise with public pressure and just thought leave it. I'm not the type of person to be abusive and I think the only thing I didn't ask him about was L.Watson not starting. We did ask Louie himself however and although he seemed deflated he simply said nothing is wrong and he's just not being picked as another poster said his Dad said.
I'm not defending him as he is part of a problem at CAFC and is involved, but I am more annoyed at the people above his station as they make the decisions and they're the ones with the funds.
I mean we sort of do need to move on from Curbs. No one can dispute that he’s a legend or anything he’s done for the club but football has moved on. Not just from Curbs but from all the managers that were successful back then. How many of the Prem managers from say 2005 still have good managerial jobs? Won’t be many. Football has changed but lots of our fans can’t seem to accept that. Curbs and Brownie getting us play 442 would probably make things worse and we don’t need their legacies tarnished like that
True, but are you seriously suggesting that the managers we have had since Curbs reflect “progress”?
We fans are not pining for Curbs, but we do need a manager with his ability to mould players into a squad that will fight for the badge.
Appleton has zero passion or inspiration - time to get rid.
I’m not saying we’ve progressed, you’d have to be blind to think that. But there are people calling for Curbs, there’s a whole thread of them on this forum alone and every match there’s a massive chunk of people saying we should play 442 as if our midfield doesn’t get overwhelmed as it is. Appleton clearly isn’t the right guy but there are definitely people who are hung up on the past and need to realise that football has changed.
Agree - Curbs is not the solution.
Fans are fed up with following a crap team and manager and of course, some of us do remember the Curbs era and even the state we were in before that era.
Whole place needs a lift and that has to come from the ownership and leadership.
The days of expecting fans to put up with this shite are long gone and apathy/indifference of the fans needs to be addressed, otherwise there will be no club to support.
Football has changed, but half wit managers toying with formations of useless players is not the solution.
- put up with the shit and support regardless of how shit they become - protest, but still put up with the shit - stay away but protest and complain [the camp I am in presently] in the hope it might change - give up on Charlton
Fans in the top group are dwindling away, so our club is fucked whilst these morons own it.
Appleton is useless, but we knew that before he arrived.
Mouthy Methven seems to have lost his voice, but he now needs to step up or even more fans will walk away.
By stepping up I mean.
- sack Appleton - employ a decent manager who will lead and inspire - return all the loanee dross we have - sign some real Div 1 hardnut players to compliment the youth - get rid of any player who cannot be arsed - keep Alfie and play him as a centre forward
It aint that difficult, but our club is blighted with wankers and half wits owning and managing it.
If we go with your option one, can we all make a collective effort to turn our smart phones on to torch mode at 85 minutes to give the players the message that they need to ‘switch on’. Please remember to have phones fully charged.
I do agree that Appleton does not seem the most inspirational manager we have had,But last night he made the change and it worked Campbell assist Tedic goal.We should have got a point.Then as is usual,the whole team goes walkabout during a free kick about 10 yards from our area.The manager can do nothing at the time to prevent this,this is totally down to the players to get themselves organised and see the danger out.No one bothered,just look at CBT,why where our players on the edge of the area and not in the goal area .I know its a different level ,but watch Brighton and West Ham defend their leads in their games this week,that requires the level of commitment which we dont have.
Doing nothing means standing on the touchline hands in pockets silent, why wasn't he shouting at the players to get further back and defend the keeper, not brain science. Man has no chance of improving this team, devoid of any personality and people moaned about Lee Bowyer at least he had guts. Great interview Braziliance but you were too soft with him, I realise you were in an awkward position. I just can't understand anyone defending this journeyman beige guy!
I agree with you mate, as much as the players like him, that may suit them. Too many late goals conceded.
In regards to too soft, it is genuinely because of his approach, even when I got emotional and got more animated he was very relaxed and simply said he's been short changed. I sympathise with public pressure and just thought leave it. I'm not the type of person to be abusive and I think the only thing I didn't ask him about was L.Watson not starting. We did ask Louie himself however and although he seemed deflated he simply said nothing is wrong and he's just not being picked as another poster said his Dad said.
I'm not defending him as he is part of a problem at CAFC and is involved, but I am more annoyed at the people above his station as they make the decisions and they're the ones with the funds.
I feel I must defend Appleton a bit here. Firstly, whilst it makes sense on one level to play May in his correct position, but we have seen that he can be smothered out of the game without support. The problem stems from the fact that most of our chances fall to him and CBT. The rest are f*ing soft passengers with no desire to get in the positions and make things happen. We see it in set pieces where not enough players want it enough. So stop him and CBT and generally you stop us
Yes, when we have Leaburn or Aneke we become more potent and more of a threat. Holden paid the price for having only May and when Appleton came in he suddenly had Leaburn and Aneke and results improved. The simple way to address it is to make the midfield more competetive. League one teams are winning too much second ball and generally bullying us and it is probably more important at this stage to give some back to them, refs at this level allow a lot of fouls, than play fancy football unless ideally those that play the fancy football have some bite to them. Stevenage are doing well despite limited resources because Evans is a no nonsense win at all costs manager.
I think our full backs are too soft too. If you look carefully, we do have more skill than most of the teams we play. I appreciate you do have to look closely as it isn't always that evident. At this level most teams play the percentages. Very basic stuff. But if you are first to the ball and stronger, that is often enough. But it is no use having more talent if you don't do the running and help your teammates and bite into tackles. That is a League One minimum and we fall well short there. I can see our players trying to do this at times but it isn't their game and they can't sustain it. We are carrying too many of this soft type of player and the winning second ball issue goes well beyond this season.
Maybe part of the issue is we have too many young players. Those that played know that a hard team will often beat a more skillful youthful, fancy team. It isn't their fault they are young and it is probably a good education for them. T Campbell is a good example. Look at the goal yesterday, he was strong and did their defender for the goal. But you can see it doesn't come naturally and he has to learn it, and he will. Same with Anderson, trying to control the ball and the opponent just goes into him and he loses it. Similar with Kanu. It is for them a case of having to think about it rather than it come naturally at this stage in their careers and they don't have enough players around them compensating for it. Don't write them off, it will make them better players but the cost is a poor season. You can even see Leaburn learning when some limited thug of a defender can dominate him. All good learning but not good for winning games now.
I feel nothing for Appleton - shit, clueless, uninspiring. We are in L1 and it needs a L1 response - like you said, look at Evans. Owners, manager and then players need sorting, in that sequence.
The owners will not budge [yet], so the manager needs sorting. Giving a shit manager players will end up with the crap we now see.
Get rid of Appleton and go hire a warhorse - when it settles down, then think about the pretty stuff, formations and so on.
While my video renders, I felt the need to share some of the conversations I had tonight with CAFC staff and players. Fair warning, this might be GrapeVine sized post..
Like a proper CAFC stalker, I waited outside the ground with other fans, I was in no rush to get home and figured I'd ask the players and manager what on earth is going wrong for myself, nothing toxic, just an honest conversation. I spoke with; Stephen Henderson, Corey Blackett-Taylor, Alfie May, George Dobson and Michael Appleton.
First of all, Hendo confirmed to me that Fraeye did actually sneak out in a laundry basket, or at least was happy to play along with the joke. I had an honest chat with him, said I am sick of Charlton being shit being blunt and that I am deeply concerned we have dodgy people in charge again. He said he can't speak for them (obviously) he did however say, that Appleton is the man for the job and we need to back him. I asked why he thinks that and he simply said he's a good bloke and knows what he's doing. He put our bad form down to lack of experienced pros and fatigue..
CBT was the next player I had a chat with, asked him more or less the same thing, he confidently told me that Appleton is a good coach and they are struggling only because of players. He said in particular he is really missing Chuks and Leaburn and how hard it is to play without a physical striker near him. I asked him what's the deal with him staying here, in his own words (I can't remember the exact wording) he wants to stay here, loves it at Charlton, he is personally willing to sign but he said it's up to the club. He didn't say he would sign, but he did shake my hand and looked me dead in the eyes and said he hopes he ends up with a contract here.
I then spoke with Alf, who was carrying a knock which is why he was hooked. Everyone saw him limping, he didn't say it was serious but just a precaution. He is a proper lovely bloke, really chatty. He also like Hendo and CBT said they are really struggling with lack of personnel.
Next up was Appleton himself. Now I'll be honest, I didn't berate him cause I thought it would be odd (odd enough I waited to speak to them tbh) but I did ask him a few 'challenging questions' and so did the other people I was with. He was adamant we played well tonight, one of the lads I was with disagreed and said we didn't and can't see what he's trying to do. He simply put it down to inexperience and lack of pros. Says the team has too much youth and they're really struggling. He was pretty damning about the situation in the sense he firmly believes he hasn't the right tools. I basically cut to the chase and said regardless of if he manages or not, it's groundhog day, the bottom line is, are you being backed by the board? He said that he has been told there will be signings and he took the job with that being clear. He wouldn't say the exact budget but said there's backing. At this point I just said fair play for talking to us. As I went to walk away Henderson came over and it got a bit bizarre. Hendo basically interrupted the conversation and asked one of the lads 'if Appleton goes like you're saying he might, then what? because how many managers has it been now?' Appleton then chimed in with 'I've seen ridiculous suggestions like Curbs? like come on, you need to move on'. Stressed again he needs time and bodies. Henderson seemed really protective of him to be honest, spoke with a lot of conviction that he is the man and seemed really annoyed at how he was boo'd off etc. Anyway that was pretty much that.
Finally I spoke to Dobson, who I asked the similar questions, he said, as you expect that it's fatigue and a lack of experience. Says they're struggling. All of them said they were happy with Appleton (I didn't expect a different answer) and that the lack of experience is really costing them. Finally I said to Dobson the same as CBT, contract situation. He like CBT, said he wants to stay, he likes it here, if the club can offer him the right deal he will stay. Like CBT I made him shake on it (can't go back on a gentlemans handshake) and tbf they both seemed pretty convincing.
If I am completely honest, speaking to them so openly made me feel different travelling home, I wasn't as angry anymore as they genuinely seemed really deflated. My concern is now, how they react if Appleton goes, they all seemed to genuinely like him and as much as I've slandered Appleton, credit where credit is due, he answered every question chucked at him and kept his cool. I am still of the belief he isn't the man because I can't see a playstyle, but I have come to terms with that he really is just a quiet bloke. I was genuinely quite stunned at how mellow he comes across.
Not sure what to make of it all tbh. Thought it was worth sharing though, also yes I know I am a stalker for waiting for them
As with others thanks for this. Got to say you have a great way of asking questions which puts people at ease, ( ie not threatening ) and gets a response. It's a skill . Well done
Thanks mate that's really kind of you to say.
In regards to what I shared earlier, no one said it was confidential and they gave me the impression it was ok to share. If they said not to say I wouldn't have posted but I think after last night it would be good to shed some (very dim) light on what's going on.
I think mostly I was told what I wanted to hear. CBT and Dobbo were always going to tell me they want to stay, I just thought it was important to share they want to and firmly believe the onus is on the owners.
Appleton did say the Curbs comment but he was being pressed with questions and I think he reacted a bit. I was the one who asked him about the money situation and what is he trying to achieve on the pitch. It was the other fan who said he disagreed with his comments on us playing well, that prompted Hendo to intervene.
That's when he said fans need to move on (Appleton) and he found it ridiculous people were suggesting Curbs replace him as it was so long ago he was even here. Got the impression he was feeling the pressure a bit.
Henderson then said to the lad who mentioned about us not playing well that he's planting seeds around Appleton now and that there's more to it than simply a manager as we have been struggling for years.
I did say to the group I was with after, take what Hendo says with a pinch of salt as he's of course going to back the head coach.
I still haven't really changed my mind entirely. I don't think Appleton is the long term solution as our history says it is usually a person with a Charlton connection and we are failing to do the basics. On a human level though and just on the basis he approached me with an open dialogue, when I got the impression he was well aware of my criticism of him (someone told me he knew I tore him one on a vid) I am going to lay off with the nicknames etc. I am just viewing it how I view some of these players, he took a job and backed himself and I'm not sure if he's up to it.
My main anger will be with the men pulling the strings if we don't see a turnaround this January, I spoke to a broken man who said he'd been assured he would be getting players in and that there is money. Want to make it clear that I don't think he's void of criticism, but I want to see what the board do now.
The easy solution is, they sack him, get an interim in and don't spend in January. They can then claim that due to the uncertainty around the coach position they didn't want to spend.
Either way I think it may have gone too far now and the damage is done
I feel I must defend Appleton a bit here. Firstly, whilst it makes sense on one level to play May in his correct position, but we have seen that he can be smothered out of the game without support. The problem stems from the fact that most of our chances fall to him and CBT. The rest are f*ing soft passengers with no desire to get in the positions and make things happen. We see it in set pieces where not enough players want it enough. So stop him and CBT and generally you stop us
Yes, when we have Leaburn or Aneke we become more potent and more of a threat. Holden paid the price for having only May and when Appleton came in he suddenly had Leaburn and Aneke and results improved. The simple way to address it is to make the midfield more competetive. League one teams are winning too much second ball and generally bullying us and it is probably more important at this stage to give some back to them, refs at this level allow a lot of fouls, than play fancy football unless ideally those that play the fancy football have some bite to them. Stevenage are doing well despite limited resources because Evans is a no nonsense win at all costs manager.
I think our full backs are too soft too. If you look carefully, we do have more skill than most of the teams we play. I appreciate you do have to look closely as it isn't always that evident. At this level most teams play the percentages. Very basic stuff. But if you are first to the ball and stronger, that is often enough. But it is no use having more talent if you don't do the running and help your teammates and bite into tackles. That is a League One minimum and we fall well short there. I can see our players trying to do this at times but it isn't their game and they can't sustain it. We are carrying too many of this soft type of player and the winning second ball issue goes well beyond this season.
Maybe part of the issue is we have too many young players. Those that played know that a hard team will often beat a more skillful youthful, fancy team. It isn't their fault they are young and it is probably a good education for them. T Campbell is a good example. Look at the goal yesterday, he was strong and did their defender for the goal. But you can see it doesn't come naturally and he has to learn it, and he will. Same with Anderson, trying to control the ball and the opponent just goes into him and he loses it. Similar with Kanu. It is for them a case of having to think about it rather than it come naturally at this stage in their careers and they don't have enough players around them compensating for it. Don't write them off, it will make them better players but the cost is a poor season. You can even see Leaburn learning when some limited thug of a defender can dominate him. All good learning but not good for winning games now.
Good post, sacking the manager is too easy and won't solve what needs solving.
The published squad at the start of the season was 16 'experienced' players and 32 U21 contract players. That balance doesn't smell like a recipe for success, especially when for example we currently have 25% of those 16 who are injured and out of the picture.
I also agree with other posters and Curbs etc. who say there's a lack of leadership. It isn't always helpful picking people out but look at 2 of the seniors for the first team, the manager and the captain, I've watched them a bit and don't see anywhere near enough of them verbally and metaphorically grabbing colleagues by the scruff of the neck to change the game. That's not necessarily an innate skill, it can be learned and improved upon by anybody. I don't see that happening though, so where are you Andy Scott, please get it sorted...... and don't just leave it at those 2 people.
As others have said, we generally play like a bunch of lightweights. I don't think we win as many competitive tackles and scuffles for the ball as we should and we are too easily knocked off the ball. Get it sorted.
What's the academy for? Bringing through players to contribute in the first team and to be sold on to help with improving the first team. Is that happening well? I don't know enough to do anything other than ask the question but I would if I were an owner or a board member who knows the game. The squad looks to me like it relies too much on U21 players who aren't experienced enough yet and I'm not sure it brings in as much revenue as it 'should'. Get it sorted.
Player recruitment, academy recruitment, the medical team.......... I could go on but won't as many of us are of a similar mind I think. Get it sorted.
Imbalances in the squad numbers and make-up, lack of experience, leadership and steel......... what's the budget impact to sort out all the above........... it all strikes me as a long-term job............ and I don't mind that........ after many years of having inexperienced and some rotten owners we have to start somewhere.
Now is the time to start though, so to mis-quote a famous football lady........ 'owners and SMT, come on, let's be having you!!'.
I mean we sort of do need to move on from Curbs. No one can dispute that he’s a legend or anything he’s done for the club but football has moved on. Not just from Curbs but from all the managers that were successful back then. How many of the Prem managers from say 2005 still have good managerial jobs? Won’t be many. Football has changed but lots of our fans can’t seem to accept that. Curbs and Brownie getting us play 442 would probably make things worse and we don’t need their legacies tarnished like that
True, but are you seriously suggesting that the managers we have had since Curbs reflect “progress”?
We fans are not pining for Curbs, but we do need a manager with his ability to mould players into a squad that will fight for the badge.
Appleton has zero passion or inspiration - time to get rid.
I’m not saying we’ve progressed, you’d have to be blind to think that. But there are people calling for Curbs, there’s a whole thread of them on this forum alone and every match there’s a massive chunk of people saying we should play 442 as if our midfield doesn’t get overwhelmed as it is. Appleton clearly isn’t the right guy but there are definitely people who are hung up on the past and need to realise that football has changed.
Appleton plays Dobbo and Fraser in a midfield 2 that gets overrun most weeks
yeah but in a 442 they’d be higher up the pitch and CBT would be expected to be defending along with any other modern day winger. hard to believe but it would be even less solid
And you get two forwards who can work as a pair to close down modern CBs who have such an easy time stroking the ball around. Get a hard worker to go with May (oddly, Stockley might well have been a good partner for him).
I mean we sort of do need to move on from Curbs. No one can dispute that he’s a legend or anything he’s done for the club but football has moved on. Not just from Curbs but from all the managers that were successful back then. How many of the Prem managers from say 2005 still have good managerial jobs? Won’t be many. Football has changed but lots of our fans can’t seem to accept that. Curbs and Brownie getting us play 442 would probably make things worse and we don’t need their legacies tarnished like that
True, but are you seriously suggesting that the managers we have had since Curbs reflect “progress”?
We fans are not pining for Curbs, but we do need a manager with his ability to mould players into a squad that will fight for the badge.
Appleton has zero passion or inspiration - time to get rid.
I’m not saying we’ve progressed, you’d have to be blind to think that. But there are people calling for Curbs, there’s a whole thread of them on this forum alone and every match there’s a massive chunk of people saying we should play 442 as if our midfield doesn’t get overwhelmed as it is. Appleton clearly isn’t the right guy but there are definitely people who are hung up on the past and need to realise that football has changed.
Appleton plays Dobbo and Fraser in a midfield 2 that gets overrun most weeks
yeah but in a 442 they’d be higher up the pitch and CBT would be expected to be defending along with any other modern day winger. hard to believe but it would be even less solid
And you get two forwards who can work as a pair to close down modern CBs who have such an easy time stroking the ball around. Get a hard worker to go with May (oddly, Stockley might well have been a good partner for him).
Stockley shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as May!
No one going to comment on what Apples said to @Braziliance (well done btw) about ‘we need to move on, from Curbs’.
What a fecking cheek. Why are we still clinging on to the one fella who made our football team play some of the best football we’ve ever seen? Because since he went we’ve had a fecking load of two bit chancers bring in two bit managers who couldn’t care less because they get a pay out & then move on to another poor club desperate for success.
So with that in mind, you can fecking move on Mr Apples, you Stone Island miserable fecking useless tosser.
Rant over………for now.
That’s got me thinking, who was the last manager to get us promoted out of any league that was not a former Charlton player?
That was appallingly bad – again. We can’t trap a simple ball,
can’t win a physical challenge, can’t pass accurately to our man
ten yards away. With the exception of Dobson and May, our players
have no technical skill - let alone the essential qualities of
spirit or guts.
What on Earth are
the coaches doing at Sparrows Lane? In the first ten minutes at
Rovers, we muffed two corners: fumbled and scuffed, straight to the
opposition. We passed around the back for the entire first half,
sideways as crabs. Keeper to Jones, Jones to Hector, Hector to Jones
– and back to the keeper.
Football is a heroic
game! It demands courage and guts. In the second half,
Blackett-Taylor is set free in the box, only the keeper to beat –
and he blasts it miles over the bar.
Under Holden, Dobson
complained to Scott that an entire training session was devoted to
practising throw-ins; they weren’t allowed to play with the ball.
Ah, diddums. At Rovers, with ten minutes to go, we had a throw-in.
Our man with the ball over head is struck dim – no-one is running
down the line to receive.
Dim-wit shuffles
about, then throws it five yards to dull mate. Approached by Rovers,
he taps it back to the thrower – but it goes out of play. This
happened twice. This is slapstick comedy.
Without Alfie May –
absurdly played on the wing – our attack is non-existent. Our
midfield has been utterly vacuous for years. And our defence! At the
slightest pressure they are sliced open and crumble.
Burton, Cheltenham,
Stockport and the rest have academy players – they beat ours,
physically and mentally. Clear out the ‘coaching’ at Sparrows
Lane, I implore. Sack the manager, if you like - but most important
of all: we have vastly wealthy owners who won’t spend money to buy proper players.
While my video renders, I felt the need to share some of the conversations I had tonight with CAFC staff and players. Fair warning, this might be GrapeVine sized post..
Like a proper CAFC stalker, I waited outside the ground with other fans, I was in no rush to get home and figured I'd ask the players and manager what on earth is going wrong for myself, nothing toxic, just an honest conversation. I spoke with; Stephen Henderson, Corey Blackett-Taylor, Alfie May, George Dobson and Michael Appleton.
First of all, Hendo confirmed to me that Fraeye did actually sneak out in a laundry basket, or at least was happy to play along with the joke. I had an honest chat with him, said I am sick of Charlton being shit being blunt and that I am deeply concerned we have dodgy people in charge again. He said he can't speak for them (obviously) he did however say, that Appleton is the man for the job and we need to back him. I asked why he thinks that and he simply said he's a good bloke and knows what he's doing. He put our bad form down to lack of experienced pros and fatigue..
CBT was the next player I had a chat with, asked him more or less the same thing, he confidently told me that Appleton is a good coach and they are struggling only because of players. He said in particular he is really missing Chuks and Leaburn and how hard it is to play without a physical striker near him. I asked him what's the deal with him staying here, in his own words (I can't remember the exact wording) he wants to stay here, loves it at Charlton, he is personally willing to sign but he said it's up to the club. He didn't say he would sign, but he did shake my hand and looked me dead in the eyes and said he hopes he ends up with a contract here.
I then spoke with Alf, who was carrying a knock which is why he was hooked. Everyone saw him limping, he didn't say it was serious but just a precaution. He is a proper lovely bloke, really chatty. He also like Hendo and CBT said they are really struggling with lack of personnel.
Next up was Appleton himself. Now I'll be honest, I didn't berate him cause I thought it would be odd (odd enough I waited to speak to them tbh) but I did ask him a few 'challenging questions' and so did the other people I was with. He was adamant we played well tonight, one of the lads I was with disagreed and said we didn't and can't see what he's trying to do. He simply put it down to inexperience and lack of pros. Says the team has too much youth and they're really struggling. He was pretty damning about the situation in the sense he firmly believes he hasn't the right tools. I basically cut to the chase and said regardless of if he manages or not, it's groundhog day, the bottom line is, are you being backed by the board? He said that he has been told there will be signings and he took the job with that being clear. He wouldn't say the exact budget but said there's backing. At this point I just said fair play for talking to us. As I went to walk away Henderson came over and it got a bit bizarre. Hendo basically interrupted the conversation and asked one of the lads 'if Appleton goes like you're saying he might, then what? because how many managers has it been now?' Appleton then chimed in with 'I've seen ridiculous suggestions like Curbs? like come on, you need to move on'. Stressed again he needs time and bodies. Henderson seemed really protective of him to be honest, spoke with a lot of conviction that he is the man and seemed really annoyed at how he was boo'd off etc. Anyway that was pretty much that.
Finally I spoke to Dobson, who I asked the similar questions, he said, as you expect that it's fatigue and a lack of experience. Says they're struggling. All of them said they were happy with Appleton (I didn't expect a different answer) and that the lack of experience is really costing them. Finally I said to Dobson the same as CBT, contract situation. He like CBT, said he wants to stay, he likes it here, if the club can offer him the right deal he will stay. Like CBT I made him shake on it (can't go back on a gentlemans handshake) and tbf they both seemed pretty convincing.
If I am completely honest, speaking to them so openly made me feel different travelling home, I wasn't as angry anymore as they genuinely seemed really deflated. My concern is now, how they react if Appleton goes, they all seemed to genuinely like him and as much as I've slandered Appleton, credit where credit is due, he answered every question chucked at him and kept his cool. I am still of the belief he isn't the man because I can't see a playstyle, but I have come to terms with that he really is just a quiet bloke. I was genuinely quite stunned at how mellow he comes across.
Not sure what to make of it all tbh. Thought it was worth sharing though, also yes I know I am a stalker for waiting for them
Post of the year mate. Well done for getting in there and asking the awkward questions.
One of the most absurd things I keep reading is the fact we miss Aneke. I understand why, but his fitness is about as consistent as Hayley’s comet. The fact we still have players and fans referencing this as if next time he’s fit we’ll be okay is quite simply astounding.
It’s almost as if they/we believe that when he’s back, all will be okay
Can add Miles into that statement as well, he wasnt playing well before the injury.
Expectations are far too high for a player still learning his trade in my opinion.
Lee Johnson just been sacked after 9 game winless run at Fleetwood. Appleton is on a 7 game winless run - surely time is running out for him. A draw with Oxford is best we can hope for but not good enough.
I'm not a fan of Appleton neither was I of Garner but it should be remembered that this team was not assembled under Appleton but under Holden, who I actually thought would turn into a good manager. Two points really, firstly I know fuck all about about what makes a good football manager, secondly, I understand that players in the modern day structure are not brought in by the head coach/manager, but rather a head of recruitment such as Scott, my point is that it you might as well put Golfie, Airman, Doucher or anybody on here to do the job but however hard they tried, unless Scott and the owners provide funds to bring players in, any manager will fail. And that last point brings us back to a former manager in Chris Powell, who didn't want to get involved because he thought it would fail too.
I do agree that Appleton does not seem the most inspirational manager we have had,But last night he made the change and it worked Campbell assist Tedic goal.We should have got a point.Then as is usual,the whole team goes walkabout during a free kick about 10 yards from our area.The manager can do nothing at the time to prevent this,this is totally down to the players to get themselves organised and see the danger out.No one bothered,just look at CBT,why where our players on the edge of the area and not in the goal area .I know its a different level ,but watch Brighton and West Ham defend their leads in their games this week,that requires the level of commitment which we dont have.
Doing nothing means standing on the touchline hands in pockets silent, why wasn't he shouting at the players to get further back and defend the keeper, not brain science. Man has no chance of improving this team, devoid of any personality and people moaned about Lee Bowyer at least he had guts. Great interview Braziliance but you were too soft with him, I realise you were in an awkward position. I just can't understand anyone defending this journeyman beige guy!
No its not brain science,but should players have to be told their jobs when they train all week together.They should know what to do,but they didnt,not for the first time ,this season do it.
I mean we sort of do need to move on from Curbs. No one can dispute that he’s a legend or anything he’s done for the club but football has moved on. Not just from Curbs but from all the managers that were successful back then. How many of the Prem managers from say 2005 still have good managerial jobs? Won’t be many. Football has changed but lots of our fans can’t seem to accept that. Curbs and Brownie getting us play 442 would probably make things worse and we don’t need their legacies tarnished like that
True, but are you seriously suggesting that the managers we have had since Curbs reflect “progress”?
We fans are not pining for Curbs, but we do need a manager with his ability to mould players into a squad that will fight for the badge.
Appleton has zero passion or inspiration - time to get rid.
I'm not sure that the role Curbishley held at Charlton even exists now.
Curbishley would often travel up and down motorways to watch games, he'd assess individual players, maybe have a chat to them, maybe even sign them up.
Now, Scott has made it crystal clear that Appleton's role is 'on the grass' looking after the group that is before him. Appleton can provide Scott with profiles of the sort of player he wants or likes and Scott as technical director (who claims that his speciality is recruitment and coaching) will set about the huge amount of data at his disposal, before having a player watched - although if that's by him or someone else I'm not sure.
In fact with the appointment of a director of performance in Dr Will Abbott I'm not sure if Scott's role is becoming redundant. I mean, the little bit he is responsible for ain't exactly going great is it?
It seems the Curbishley role of 'Manager' has been replaced by the roles of Head Coach, Technical director, The Director of Performance and a Data Bank.
I have to say @Braziliance the curbs comment makes sense in your longer post. It is a ridiculous call to bring back a guy that hasn't managed since 2008. It is indeed a bit weird. Would do well in a DOF role though I'm sure.
I do agree that Appleton does not seem the most inspirational manager we have had,But last night he made the change and it worked Campbell assist Tedic goal.We should have got a point.Then as is usual,the whole team goes walkabout during a free kick about 10 yards from our area.The manager can do nothing at the time to prevent this,this is totally down to the players to get themselves organised and see the danger out.No one bothered,just look at CBT,why where our players on the edge of the area and not in the goal area .I know its a different level ,but watch Brighton and West Ham defend their leads in their games this week,that requires the level of commitment which we dont have.
Doing nothing means standing on the touchline hands in pockets silent, why wasn't he shouting at the players to get further back and defend the keeper, not brain science. Man has no chance of improving this team, devoid of any personality and people moaned about Lee Bowyer at least he had guts. Great interview Braziliance but you were too soft with him, I realise you were in an awkward position. I just can't understand anyone defending this journeyman beige guy!
I agree with you mate, as much as the players like him, that may suit them. Too many late goals conceded.
In regards to too soft, it is genuinely because of his approach, even when I got emotional and got more animated he was very relaxed and simply said he's been short changed. I sympathise with public pressure and just thought leave it. I'm not the type of person to be abusive and I think the only thing I didn't ask him about was L.Watson not starting. We did ask Louie himself however and although he seemed deflated he simply said nothing is wrong and he's just not being picked as another poster said his Dad said.
I'm not defending him as he is part of a problem at CAFC and is involved, but I am more annoyed at the people above his station as they make the decisions and they're the ones with the funds.
Tedic up top in a 2 with May was one I’d also have asked but fair play for doing what you did
I mean we sort of do need to move on from Curbs. No one can dispute that he’s a legend or anything he’s done for the club but football has moved on. Not just from Curbs but from all the managers that were successful back then. How many of the Prem managers from say 2005 still have good managerial jobs? Won’t be many. Football has changed but lots of our fans can’t seem to accept that. Curbs and Brownie getting us play 442 would probably make things worse and we don’t need their legacies tarnished like that
True, but are you seriously suggesting that the managers we have had since Curbs reflect “progress”?
We fans are not pining for Curbs, but we do need a manager with his ability to mould players into a squad that will fight for the badge.
Appleton has zero passion or inspiration - time to get rid.
I'm not sure that the role Curbishley held at Charlton even exists now.
Curbishley would often travel up and down motorways to watch games, he'd assess individual players, maybe have a chat to them, maybe even sign them up.
Now, Scott has made it crystal clear that Appleton's role is 'on the grass' looking after the group that is before him. Appleton can provide Scott with profiles of the sort of player he wants or likes and Scott as technical director (who claims that his speciality is recruitment and coaching) will set about the huge amount of data at his disposal, before having a player watched - although if that's by him or someone else I'm not sure.
In fact with the appointment of a director of performance in Dr Will Abbott I'm not sure if Scott's role is becoming redundant. I mean, the little bit he is responsible for ain't exactly going great is it?
It seems the Curbishley role of 'Manager' has been replaced by the roles of Head Coach, Technical director, The Director of Performance and a Data Bank.
How much did we pay Curbs? Not enough I'd say.
All the current lot need to go - they won’t, so we have zero prospects of any improvement.
I don’t really care about structures or formations at the level we are at.
I mean we sort of do need to move on from Curbs. No one can dispute that he’s a legend or anything he’s done for the club but football has moved on. Not just from Curbs but from all the managers that were successful back then. How many of the Prem managers from say 2005 still have good managerial jobs? Won’t be many. Football has changed but lots of our fans can’t seem to accept that. Curbs and Brownie getting us play 442 would probably make things worse and we don’t need their legacies tarnished like that
True, but are you seriously suggesting that the managers we have had since Curbs reflect “progress”?
We fans are not pining for Curbs, but we do need a manager with his ability to mould players into a squad that will fight for the badge.
Appleton has zero passion or inspiration - time to get rid.
I'm not sure that the role Curbishley held at Charlton even exists now.
Curbishley would often travel up and down motorways to watch games, he'd assess individual players, maybe have a chat to them, maybe even sign them up.
Now, Scott has made it crystal clear that Appleton's role is 'on the grass' looking after the group that is before him. Appleton can provide Scott with profiles of the sort of player he wants or likes and Scott as technical director (who claims that his speciality is recruitment and coaching) will set about the huge amount of data at his disposal, before having a player watched - although if that's by him or someone else I'm not sure.
In fact with the appointment of a director of performance in Dr Will Abbott I'm not sure if Scott's role is becoming redundant. I mean, the little bit he is responsible for ain't exactly going great is it?
It seems the Curbishley role of 'Manager' has been replaced by the roles of Head Coach, Technical director, The Director of Performance and a Data Bank.
How much did we pay Curbs? Not enough I'd say.
In many respects you have hit the nail on the head.The days of the manager,actually managing a club are gone,with obvious exceptions,like Klopp and Guardiola.Gone are the days when managers had trusty scouts who would travel everywhere to watch players.be it on the park or in a stadium.Clough would go to a match in a disguise and stand on the terrace,Curbs would speak to players in motorway cafes,Ferguson,Shankley and the like would go to prospective players houses for a cup of tea .nowadays,too many cogs in the wheel,players being forced on managers who didnt want them,I cite the Chris Powell situation.and when it all goes tits up ,who gets the bullet,the poor old manager,while the real culprits remain employed. Now I am on the fence with Appleton,I dont know him,I sit in the East Stand so dont see him match days,so I cant comment on his pitch side attitude.I will say he has inherited a team which is not his,some of them loans,we wont get to the play offs this year,but we can,in the January window make a statement.if Scott is serious about backing the manager,lets see it,give Appleton players who he wants,and then lets see how he performs in the second half of the season
Comments
The last Manager to get us promoted having had no previous relationship with the club was Andy Nelson.
In regards to too soft, it is genuinely because of his approach, even when I got emotional and got more animated he was very relaxed and simply said he's been short changed. I sympathise with public pressure and just thought leave it. I'm not the type of person to be abusive and I think the only thing I didn't ask him about was L.Watson not starting. We did ask Louie himself however and although he seemed deflated he simply said nothing is wrong and he's just not being picked as another poster said his Dad said.
I'm not defending him as he is part of a problem at CAFC and is involved, but I am more annoyed at the people above his station as they make the decisions and they're the ones with the funds.
Fans are fed up with following a crap team and manager and of course, some of us do remember the Curbs era and even the state we were in before that era.
Whole place needs a lift and that has to come from the ownership and leadership.
The days of expecting fans to put up with this shite are long gone and apathy/indifference of the fans needs to be addressed, otherwise there will be no club to support.
Football has changed, but half wit managers toying with formations of useless players is not the solution.
How has MA been short changed?
The owners will not budge [yet], so the manager needs sorting. Giving a shit manager players will end up with the crap we now see.
Get rid of Appleton and go hire a warhorse - when it settles down, then think about the pretty stuff, formations and so on.
The published squad at the start of the season was 16 'experienced' players and 32 U21 contract players. That balance doesn't smell like a recipe for success, especially when for example we currently have 25% of those 16 who are injured and out of the picture.
I also agree with other posters and Curbs etc. who say there's a lack of leadership. It isn't always helpful picking people out but look at 2 of the seniors for the first team, the manager and the captain, I've watched them a bit and don't see anywhere near enough of them verbally and metaphorically grabbing colleagues by the scruff of the neck to change the game. That's not necessarily an innate skill, it can be learned and improved upon by anybody. I don't see that happening though, so where are you Andy Scott, please get it sorted...... and don't just leave it at those 2 people.
As others have said, we generally play like a bunch of lightweights. I don't think we win as many competitive tackles and scuffles for the ball as we should and we are too easily knocked off the ball. Get it sorted.
What's the academy for? Bringing through players to contribute in the first team and to be sold on to help with improving the first team. Is that happening well? I don't know enough to do anything other than ask the question but I would if I were an owner or a board member who knows the game. The squad looks to me like it relies too much on U21 players who aren't experienced enough yet and I'm not sure it brings in as much revenue as it 'should'. Get it sorted.
Player recruitment, academy recruitment, the medical team.......... I could go on but won't as many of us are of a similar mind I think. Get it sorted.
Imbalances in the squad numbers and make-up, lack of experience, leadership and steel......... what's the budget impact to sort out all the above........... it all strikes me as a long-term job............ and I don't mind that........ after many years of having inexperienced and some rotten owners we have to start somewhere.
Now is the time to start though, so to mis-quote a famous football lady........ 'owners and SMT, come on, let's be having you!!'.
For New Year we are staying with the in-laws, in Bristol, about a mile from the ground.
They have two cats, and this morning in the utility room was a..... dead robin!
Hopefully you ain't got any relatives living in Oxford have you...🙄
That was appallingly bad – again. We can’t trap a simple ball, can’t win a physical challenge, can’t pass accurately to our man ten yards away. With the exception of Dobson and May, our players have no technical skill - let alone the essential qualities of spirit or guts.
What on Earth are the coaches doing at Sparrows Lane? In the first ten minutes at Rovers, we muffed two corners: fumbled and scuffed, straight to the opposition. We passed around the back for the entire first half, sideways as crabs. Keeper to Jones, Jones to Hector, Hector to Jones – and back to the keeper.
Football is a heroic game! It demands courage and guts. In the second half, Blackett-Taylor is set free in the box, only the keeper to beat – and he blasts it miles over the bar.
Under Holden, Dobson complained to Scott that an entire training session was devoted to practising throw-ins; they weren’t allowed to play with the ball. Ah, diddums. At Rovers, with ten minutes to go, we had a throw-in. Our man with the ball over head is struck dim – no-one is running down the line to receive.
Dim-wit shuffles about, then throws it five yards to dull mate. Approached by Rovers, he taps it back to the thrower – but it goes out of play. This happened twice. This is slapstick comedy.
Without Alfie May – absurdly played on the wing – our attack is non-existent. Our midfield has been utterly vacuous for years. And our defence! At the slightest pressure they are sliced open and crumble.
Burton, Cheltenham, Stockport and the rest have academy players – they beat ours, physically and mentally. Clear out the ‘coaching’ at Sparrows Lane, I implore. Sack the manager, if you like - but most important of all: we have vastly wealthy owners who won’t spend money to buy proper players.
That is why we are a weak little team.
Curbishley would often travel up and down motorways to watch games, he'd assess individual players, maybe have a chat to them, maybe even sign them up.
Now, Scott has made it crystal clear that Appleton's role is 'on the grass' looking after the group that is before him. Appleton can provide Scott with profiles of the sort of player he wants or likes and Scott as technical director (who claims that his speciality is recruitment and coaching) will set about the huge amount of data at his disposal, before having a player watched - although if that's by him or someone else I'm not sure.
In fact with the appointment of a director of performance in Dr Will Abbott I'm not sure if Scott's role is becoming redundant. I mean, the little bit he is responsible for ain't exactly going great is it?
It seems the Curbishley role of 'Manager' has been replaced by the roles of Head Coach, Technical director, The Director of Performance and a Data Bank.
How much did we pay Curbs? Not enough I'd say.
I don’t really care about structures or formations at the level we are at.
The idiots running CAFC need to go.
Now I am on the fence with Appleton,I dont know him,I sit in the East Stand so dont see him match days,so I cant comment on his pitch side attitude.I will say he has inherited a team which is not his,some of them loans,we wont get to the play offs this year,but we can,in the January window make a statement.if Scott is serious about backing the manager,lets see it,give Appleton players who he wants,and then lets see how he performs in the second half of the season