This argument about whether we might reasonably expect Dobbo to have played to the whistle is only part of the story. When it became blindingly obvious that the ref wasn't giving the goal kick we were massively slow to react to the danger. Kane had all the time in the world to pick out a teammate to finish. I think we could have done more to get a challenge/block in.
This.
Anyone would think we are talking about the ball being over the goal line ffs ! It had to travel a long way into our box & to one of their players before a goal is scored.
And to be fair, there was no official anywhere near the ball, so hard for them to know for sure that ball was out of play.
Also thoughts with Tom Lockyer and his family - just saw what happened. I suspect he’s played his last match :-(
it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - again
Wonder if MA is in for some trouble for his post match comments. He stated that "It was not a mistake, as that is something you do by accident" or words to that effect. He was livid.
One improvement yesterday was we sustained a decent level of play for the whole match rather than only for one half, or for the period after substitutions were made. Yes Fraser and Tedic hardly contributed, but they weren’t liabilities either.
it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - again
Wonder if MA is in for some trouble for his post match comments. He stated that "It was not a most mistake, as that is something you do by accident" or words to that effect. He was livid.
Yes he was livid, and rightly so, clearly he had spoken to Dobson who confirmed the ball was out, just a farce that no-one is allowed to speak their mind about a decision when something has cost their side decisively...
It was actually a fairly decent performance by us (and a pretty enjoyable match by L1 standards). Taken on its own it was fine, but the problem with league matches is they have to be viewed in the context of the league season. That means a decent draw like yesterday is tainted because previous poor results (Carlisle & Cambridge) mean we probably needed to target three points.
Looking at the table now, barring an incredible January window, it’s going to be really tough to make up the required points to get us into the playoffs. We’re not quite in “write off” territory for this season yet, but it’s fast approaching if we don’t take 8 or 10 points in 10 days, starting with a win over Burton.
A point away to Barnsley is nothing to be sniffed at, however, with us chasing the pack and that game being essentially a 6 pointer, we needed to win.
I didn't think our performance was up to much, Barnsley were worse than I thought. They had some nice quick passing on the break and were definitely the better passing side in regards to efficency, I was expecting to see a lot better though. I thought we looked void of ideas most of the game and if it wasn't for some CBT persistence and a flukey bobbled header, we would have come away with nothing.
Thought Dobson played really well apart from the corner flag incident (you can see why he stopped playing though) and a few misplaced passes. Other than that, the best player on the park and the only player looking to make something happen from the middle
CBT looked lively and his usual persistence (way better than last season) got him in a position to score a goal from a Barnsley error.
Credit to AMB for making some saves as well and Thomas filling in again for Jones, he hasn't looked out of place at all.
Just a shame we are playing catch up cause it really wasn't a shabby away peformance at all
it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - again
Wonder if MA is in for some trouble for his post match comments. He stated that "It was not a most mistake, as that is something you do by accident" or words to that effect. He was livid.
A point away to Barnsley is nothing to be sniffed at, however, with us chasing the pack and that game being essentially a 6 pointer, we needed to win.
I didn't think our performance was up to much, Barnsley were worse than I thought. They had some nice quick passing on the break and were definitely the better passing side in regards to efficency, I was expecting to see a lot better though. I thought we looked void of ideas most of the game and if it wasn't for some CBT persistence and a flukey bobbled header, we would have come away with nothing.
Thought Dobson played really well apart from the corner flag incident (you can see why he stopped playing though) and a few misplaced passes. Other than that, the best player on the park and the only player looking to make something happen from the middle
CBT looked lively and his usual persistence (way better than last season) got him in a position to score a goal from a Barnsley error.
Credit to AMB for making some saves as well and Thomas filling in again for Jones, he hasn't looked out of place at all.
Just a shame we are playing catch up cause it really wasn't a shabby away peformance at all
I didn’t go or watch it so can’t comment about the performance but there’s some positivity in the post match posts about how we played so that could be something that’s starting to go right. There are 3 games left in 2023, all 3 of which are winnable. That’s where we need to start if we are going to begin trying to close the gap between us and the 6th place spot. 9 points from the next 3 games has to be the target to aim for. We won’t close the 9 point gap but we could put a dent in it because those teams above us will drop points.
it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - again
Wonder if MA is in for some trouble for his post match comments. He stated that "It was not a most mistake, as that is something you do by accident" or words to that effect. He was livid.
?
Apologies for late repost with edit.. MA comment: He stated that "It was not a mistake, as that is something you do by accident" or words to that effect.
it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - again
Wonder if MA is in for some trouble for his post match comments. He stated that "It was not a most mistake, as that is something you do by accident" or words to that effect. He was livid.
?
Apologies for late repost with edit.. MA comment: He stated that "It was not a mistake, as that is something you do by accident" or words to that effect.
I think what he meant was, a mistake is excusable, this was not!
A point away to Barnsley is nothing to be sniffed at, however, with us chasing the pack and that game being essentially a 6 pointer, we needed to win.
I didn't think our performance was up to much, Barnsley were worse than I thought. They had some nice quick passing on the break and were definitely the better passing side in regards to efficency, I was expecting to see a lot better though. I thought we looked void of ideas most of the game and if it wasn't for some CBT persistence and a flukey bobbled header, we would have come away with nothing.
Thought Dobson played really well apart from the corner flag incident (you can see why he stopped playing though) and a few misplaced passes. Other than that, the best player on the park and the only player looking to make something happen from the middle
CBT looked lively and his usual persistence (way better than last season) got him in a position to score a goal from a Barnsley error.
Credit to AMB for making some saves as well and Thomas filling in again for Jones, he hasn't looked out of place at all.
Just a shame we are playing catch up cause it really wasn't a shabby away peformance at all
I didn’t go or watch it so can’t comment about the performance but there’s some positivity in the post match posts about how we played so that could be something that’s starting to go right. There are 3 games left in 2023, all 3 of which are winnable. That’s where we need to start if we are going to begin trying to close the gap between us and the 6th place spot. 9 points from the next 3 games has to be the target to aim for. We won’t close the 9 point gap but we could put a dent in it because those teams above us will drop points.
It wasn't a 'good performance' by any stretch, just not bad either. Their keeper wasn't tested at all, maybe 2-3 times tops, one of which went in. Most of your play was long ball down the wings. As much as we can say the officials cost us, had a bad cleared Barnsley header hadn't happened, we probably wouldn't have scored either.
There just isn't enough quality in the team to get a run of wins, which we need. As far as the term 'winnable games', I feel as though everytime I've coined that phrase, it's never come to fruition. We just aren't that side unfortunately.
The reality is we are still 3 wins in a row away from play-offs, all the while hoping those above us lose 3 on the trot, we don't really create chances unless CBT goes for something and all our set pieces, we may as well give them the ball and start the game again.
Like I said, Barnsley point away is decent, it's just the situation we are in means I'm not as positive as I'd normally be.
The video and screenshot is not conclusive of ball being out. AMB picking up a yellow card for it and Appleton post-match remarks (presumably after speaking to Dobson) says it was out though.
As for CBT, I think he's off. Saw a couple of people on twitter say that they think he's staying as he tapped the badge, I personally think it's a bit out of character as I don't ever recall seeing him do that.
I would say it leans more towards, 'I know I'm off, so I'm putting in 100% to leave on good terms' rather than he loves the club and he's staying.
The home (left) and away (right) league tables say a lot. Also, when you look at the top 6 in away table, it is the actual top 6, apart from Barnsley instead of Bolton.
it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - again
Agreed, Dobson head is directly over the ball. He knew the ball was out
You can’t possibly know from that photograph that the ball was out or Dobsons head was over it. It’s just not possible.
And the officials were mikes away.
The officials are often “miles away” from decisions such as this. So that is when experienced/smart officials take into account the reactions of players near the incident. This is what they were all explaining in the studio yesterday, and not for the first time. If you have access to the playback of the entire game coverage it is worth at least viewing the post-match discussion. You know Curbs well enough to know that he’s not one for going overboard at referees compared with most of his peers. Listen to him.
it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - again
Agreed, Dobson head is directly over the ball. He knew the ball was out
You can’t possibly know from that photograph that the ball was out or Dobsons head was over it. It’s just not possible.
And the officials were mikes away.
The officials are often “miles away” from decisions such as this. So that is when experienced/smart officials take into account the reactions of players near the incident. This is what they were all explaining in the studio yesterday, and not for the first time. If you have access to the playback of the entire game coverage it is worth at least viewing the post-match discussion. You know Curbs well enough to know that he’s not one for going overboard at referees compared with most of his peers. Listen to him.
I thought refs were encouraged to play to the attackers advantage if in doubt, giving them a supposed more objective principle to work to other than the likes of player reactions. Maybe that's changed? For me, i (generally) like seeing the ball robbed by attackers when a defender is being defensive and would have applauded Kane's effort yesterday had i been a Barnsley fan.
The only viable solution from our point of view was for Dobson to make sure that was out and be clear about it, especially in a quadrant of the pitch where officials are less likely to reach and have full visibility.
it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - again
Agreed, Dobson head is directly over the ball. He knew the ball was out
You can’t possibly know from that photograph that the ball was out or Dobsons head was over it. It’s just not possible.
As a professional footballer who trains and plays most days, it's reasonable to suggest that he has a technique higher than the level seen at danson park on a Sunday. He was shielding the ball out and watching it, with his head still and in a good position. He knew it was over the line.
Awful decision from the referee. Another who obviously doesn't understand the game, or basics of the right white powder.
BUT for those that consider yesterday's game would have led to 3 points for us without such a decision, I think we've watched Charlton enough to know that a clean sheet and win would not have been in the bag!
Whilst taking nothing away from the finish from the Barnsley lad, the decision for their goal was an absolute disgrace. The referee (who comes into shot on the Sky Sports highlights from the edge of the box) is best placed to make the decision but is looking to his right, into the box, as Dobbo shepherd the ball out. He only begins looking at the play once the Barnsley player starts working his way into the box. Both linesmen are half the pitch away and cannot see, so this is fully on the referee to watch in this corner and is focusing on the players in the box and not the ball. Without watching the ball, it could have been even further over the line and the referee still would not have made the correct call because he's not watching the ball. I've seen plenty of referee errors this season, but this feels like one of the most egregious.
In isolation and as a result, a point is a good result - maybe even more so, given our injuries, and I hoped for that as a minimum before the game. However, in the context of Barnsley being weak-ish at home, dropping points last week and the wider league, this was an opportunity. We didn't do quite enough to earn the 3 points and scoring once is rarely enough for us - although this time, I don't put the blame on our defense. Fraser and Tedic are the ones I would label as the disappointments here - the former not having the legs, guile or industry to control the game and the latter just lacking all quality. The majority worked hard and looked better, but without any real sparkle to change the game, and we can't consistently rely on our hugely inexperienced academy players to nick points against quality teams.
I'd give anything for a box-to-box midfielder with a real engine in January to replace Fraser in this role, because no-one else can seemingly do this (or be trusted in by MA in the case of L Watson). The player alongside Dobson needs to be the one who brings it all together, and I don't think Fraser can do it. I'd be tempted to give L Watson a start against some of those teams over the holidays, as I felt Fraser looked leggy.
Overall, a missed opportunity yet again. I feel this won't be the last time I say that this season.
Whilst taking nothing away from the finish from the Barnsley lad, the decision for their goal was an absolute disgrace. The referee (who comes into shot on the Sky Sports highlights from the edge of the box) is best placed to make the decision but is looking to his right, into the box, as Dobbo shepherd the ball out. He only begins looking at the play once the Barnsley player starts working his way into the box. Both linesmen are half the pitch away and cannot see, so this is fully on the referee to watch in this corner and is focusing on the players in the box and not the ball. Without watching the ball, it could have been even further over the line and the referee still would not have made the correct call because he's not watching the ball. I've seen plenty of referee errors this season, but this feels like one of the most egregious.
In isolation and as a result, a point is a good result - maybe even more so, given our injuries, and I hoped for that as a minimum before the game. However, in the context of Barnsley being weak-ish at home, dropping points last week and the wider league, this was an opportunity. We didn't do quite enough to earn the 3 points and scoring once is rarely enough for us - although this time, I don't put the blame on our defense. Fraser and Tedic are the ones I would label as the disappointments here - the former not having the legs, guile or industry to control the game and the latter just lacking all quality. The majority worked hard and looked better, but without any real sparkle to change the game, and we can't consistently rely on our hugely inexperienced academy players to nick points against quality teams.
I'd give anything for a box-to-box midfielder with a real engine in January to replace Fraser in this role, because no-one else can seemingly do this (or be trusted in by MA in the case of L Watson). The player alongside Dobson needs to be the one who brings it all together, and I don't think Fraser can do it. I'd be tempted to give L Watson a start against some of those teams over the holidays, as I felt Fraser looked leggy.
Overall, a missed opportunity yet again. I feel this won't be the last time I say that this season.
We definitely are missing a partner for Dobson. It’s a shame that McGrandles got injured again as there was some promise there, and Taylor and Camara both being injured is annoying as they both are decent fits for that role.
Fraser doesn’t fit it at all, it’s not his position. Watson doesn’t either but he’s been much better than Fraser there and it’s really odd that Appleton isn’t seeing that
Whilst taking nothing away from the finish from the Barnsley lad, the decision for their goal was an absolute disgrace. The referee (who comes into shot on the Sky Sports highlights from the edge of the box) is best placed to make the decision but is looking to his right, into the box, as Dobbo shepherd the ball out. He only begins looking at the play once the Barnsley player starts working his way into the box. Both linesmen are half the pitch away and cannot see, so this is fully on the referee to watch in this corner and is focusing on the players in the box and not the ball. Without watching the ball, it could have been even further over the line and the referee still would not have made the correct call because he's not watching the ball. I've seen plenty of referee errors this season, but this feels like one of the most egregious.
In isolation and as a result, a point is a good result - maybe even more so, given our injuries, and I hoped for that as a minimum before the game. However, in the context of Barnsley being weak-ish at home, dropping points last week and the wider league, this was an opportunity. We didn't do quite enough to earn the 3 points and scoring once is rarely enough for us - although this time, I don't put the blame on our defense. Fraser and Tedic are the ones I would label as the disappointments here - the former not having the legs, guile or industry to control the game and the latter just lacking all quality. The majority worked hard and looked better, but without any real sparkle to change the game, and we can't consistently rely on our hugely inexperienced academy players to nick points against quality teams.
I'd give anything for a box-to-box midfielder with a real engine in January to replace Fraser in this role, because no-one else can seemingly do this (or be trusted in by MA in the case of L Watson). The player alongside Dobson needs to be the one who brings it all together, and I don't think Fraser can do it. I'd be tempted to give L Watson a start against some of those teams over the holidays, as I felt Fraser looked leggy.
Overall, a missed opportunity yet again. I feel this won't be the last time I say that this season.
We definitely are missing a partner for Dobson. It’s a shame that McGrandles got injured again as there was some promise there, and Taylor and Camara both being injured is annoying as they both are decent fits for that role.
Fraser doesn’t fit it at all, it’s not his position. Watson doesn’t either but he’s been much better than Fraser there and it’s really odd that Appleton isn’t seeing that
Agreed - I don't think that, in the 4-2-3-1 system MA wants to employ, Fraser fits in an optimal team with May - this being true because I think Fraser would prefer to be 10 free role that I think May contributes more towards with goals, but May requires a 9 to support him. May on the right is a waste imho, and affects the balance of the team. MA trusts Fraser to manage games in the 2 deeper CMs better than L Watson, despite being a square peg.
A fully fit Camara would be my pick from the current crop to go box-to-box, but with his minutes that feels only a little more likely than a fit Aneke. L Watson has shown glimpses, but I still trust to judgement of the manager for now in not bowing to the fan pressure to play him. Not having Taylor to assess is tricky, but the lad hasn't stood out in any of the games I did see him. McGrandles is very similar to Dobson and he doesn't bring enough going forward for me, plus the injury record continues enough to not be relied on.
Maybe it's not perceived as the most important role to sign for January (given how many midfielders we have on the books), but the importance cannot be understated.
As for CBT, I think he's off. Saw a couple of people on twitter say that they think he's staying as he tapped the badge, I personally think it's a bit out of character as I don't ever recall seeing him do that.
I would say it leans more towards, 'I know I'm off, so I'm putting in 100% to leave on good terms' rather than he loves the club and he's staying.
For a while now I thought he will be going in January but then he scored a goal or two more and that changes things. I think it’s now realistic that he could set a target of 20 goals for the whole season and get near to achieving it. If he manages that then any deal his agent can get him will be a lot better than the one if he moves on now. Personally, I think his best bet in those circumstances is to play out this season with Charlton and go for goals.
Whilst taking nothing away from the finish from the Barnsley lad, the decision for their goal was an absolute disgrace. The referee (who comes into shot on the Sky Sports highlights from the edge of the box) is best placed to make the decision but is looking to his right, into the box, as Dobbo shepherd the ball out. He only begins looking at the play once the Barnsley player starts working his way into the box. Both linesmen are half the pitch away and cannot see, so this is fully on the referee to watch in this corner and is focusing on the players in the box and not the ball. Without watching the ball, it could have been even further over the line and the referee still would not have made the correct call because he's not watching the ball. I've seen plenty of referee errors this season, but this feels like one of the most egregious.
In isolation and as a result, a point is a good result - maybe even more so, given our injuries, and I hoped for that as a minimum before the game. However, in the context of Barnsley being weak-ish at home, dropping points last week and the wider league, this was an opportunity. We didn't do quite enough to earn the 3 points and scoring once is rarely enough for us - although this time, I don't put the blame on our defense. Fraser and Tedic are the ones I would label as the disappointments here - the former not having the legs, guile or industry to control the game and the latter just lacking all quality. The majority worked hard and looked better, but without any real sparkle to change the game, and we can't consistently rely on our hugely inexperienced academy players to nick points against quality teams.
I'd give anything for a box-to-box midfielder with a real engine in January to replace Fraser in this role, because no-one else can seemingly do this (or be trusted in by MA in the case of L Watson). The player alongside Dobson needs to be the one who brings it all together, and I don't think Fraser can do it. I'd be tempted to give L Watson a start against some of those teams over the holidays, as I felt Fraser looked leggy.
Overall, a missed opportunity yet again. I feel this won't be the last time I say that this season.
We definitely are missing a partner for Dobson. It’s a shame that McGrandles got injured again as there was some promise there, and Taylor and Camara both being injured is annoying as they both are decent fits for that role.
Fraser doesn’t fit it at all, it’s not his position. Watson doesn’t either but he’s been much better than Fraser there and it’s really odd that Appleton isn’t seeing that
Agreed - I don't think that, in the 4-2-3-1 system MA wants to employ, Fraser fits in an optimal team with May - this being true because I think Fraser would prefer to be 10 free role that I think May contributes more towards with goals, but May requires a 9 to support him. May on the right is a waste imho, and affects the balance of the team. MA trusts Fraser to manage games in the 2 deeper CMs better than L Watson, despite being a square peg.
A fully fit Camara would be my pick from the current crop to go box-to-box, but with his minutes that feels only a little more likely than a fit Aneke. L Watson has shown glimpses, but I still trust to judgement of the manager for now in not bowing to the fan pressure to play him. Not having Taylor to assess is tricky, but the lad hasn't stood out in any of the games I did see him. McGrandles is very similar to Dobson and he doesn't bring enough going forward for me, plus the injury record continues enough to not be relied on.
Maybe it's not perceived as the most important role to sign for January (given how many midfielders we have on the books), but the importance cannot be understated.
I honestly think that signing will have more of an impact on improving our defence than a new centre back would. I’d like us to bring in a centre back but ST, CM partner for Dobson and maybe RW are probably more important
Taylor was poor for us but when he’s fully fit he would fit what we need. Camara is perfect but I think we might as well send him back and use the wages on bringing in someone who is fit. I don’t think they even need to offer much going forward, just need to protect our back 4 more than Fraser/Watson do
Comments
Yes Fraser and Tedic hardly contributed, but they weren’t liabilities either.
I didn't think our performance was up to much, Barnsley were worse than I thought. They had some nice quick passing on the break and were definitely the better passing side in regards to efficency, I was expecting to see a lot better though. I thought we looked void of ideas most of the game and if it wasn't for some CBT persistence and a flukey bobbled header, we would have come away with nothing.
Thought Dobson played really well apart from the corner flag incident (you can see why he stopped playing though) and a few misplaced passes. Other than that, the best player on the park and the only player looking to make something happen from the middle
CBT looked lively and his usual persistence (way better than last season) got him in a position to score a goal from a Barnsley error.
Credit to AMB for making some saves as well and Thomas filling in again for Jones, he hasn't looked out of place at all.
Just a shame we are playing catch up cause it really wasn't a shabby away peformance at all
He stated that "It was not a mistake, as that is something you do by accident" or words to that effect.
There just isn't enough quality in the team to get a run of wins, which we need. As far as the term 'winnable games', I feel as though everytime I've coined that phrase, it's never come to fruition. We just aren't that side unfortunately.
The reality is we are still 3 wins in a row away from play-offs, all the while hoping those above us lose 3 on the trot, we don't really create chances unless CBT goes for something and all our set pieces, we may as well give them the ball and start the game again.
Like I said, Barnsley point away is decent, it's just the situation we are in means I'm not as positive as I'd normally be.
I would say it leans more towards, 'I know I'm off, so I'm putting in 100% to leave on good terms' rather than he loves the club and he's staying.
I missed our goal - needed a pee, and whilst doing that the away end erupts above me 😡
We played a hell of a lot better yesterday - should have won
Day rounded off by bumping into a load of QPR knobheads at Sheffield station
Enjoyable day - Barnsley is a nice town
The only viable solution from our point of view was for Dobson to make sure that was out and be clear about it, especially in a quadrant of the pitch where officials are less likely to reach and have full visibility.
BUT for those that consider yesterday's game would have led to 3 points for us without such a decision, I think we've watched Charlton enough to know that a clean sheet and win would not have been in the bag!
Sad.
In isolation and as a result, a point is a good result - maybe even more so, given our injuries, and I hoped for that as a minimum before the game. However, in the context of Barnsley being weak-ish at home, dropping points last week and the wider league, this was an opportunity. We didn't do quite enough to earn the 3 points and scoring once is rarely enough for us - although this time, I don't put the blame on our defense. Fraser and Tedic are the ones I would label as the disappointments here - the former not having the legs, guile or industry to control the game and the latter just lacking all quality. The majority worked hard and looked better, but without any real sparkle to change the game, and we can't consistently rely on our hugely inexperienced academy players to nick points against quality teams.
I'd give anything for a box-to-box midfielder with a real engine in January to replace Fraser in this role, because no-one else can seemingly do this (or be trusted in by MA in the case of L Watson). The player alongside Dobson needs to be the one who brings it all together, and I don't think Fraser can do it. I'd be tempted to give L Watson a start against some of those teams over the holidays, as I felt Fraser looked leggy.
Overall, a missed opportunity yet again. I feel this won't be the last time I say that this season.
A fully fit Camara would be my pick from the current crop to go box-to-box, but with his minutes that feels only a little more likely than a fit Aneke. L Watson has shown glimpses, but I still trust to judgement of the manager for now in not bowing to the fan pressure to play him. Not having Taylor to assess is tricky, but the lad hasn't stood out in any of the games I did see him. McGrandles is very similar to Dobson and he doesn't bring enough going forward for me, plus the injury record continues enough to not be relied on.
Maybe it's not perceived as the most important role to sign for January (given how many midfielders we have on the books), but the importance cannot be understated.