We need a forward.....will be disappointing if we haven't signed on for Saturday's game.....
I really haven't bothered much with this thread this week as I didn't think much would happen for the first few days.
I believe the window shuts 4 weeks today, 11pm on Thursday 1st Feb, so there is still plenty of time to bring in recruits.
However, we currently have no fit senior strikers & if Alfie May doesnt recover in time for Saturday we could see ourselves going into another match with just Kanu as a lone striker (with Casey on the bench). It may be the case that we are all resigned to the fact that the play-offs are out of reach but the bottom 4 places aren't. The more games we play with little or no striking options the more games we wont win.
Signing a striker is really one of the first pieces of transfer business we should be doing. If the club think we can muddle through until Aneke is back then they are seriously deluded.
Where as I agree and want a striker in as soon as possible, you always over simplify the process.
We have a budget, and it is not going to be bottomless. We also know there are plenty of areas of squad that need improvement.
With that budget we know we after JCH who I think in my own personal opinion is elite at this level.
I am sure currently Darren MacAnthony is wanting people to pay over the odds for him.
Are you risking missing out on JCH for a striker who is not as proven at this level, or paying over the odds for JCH and having less budget to buy your first choice defensive options, and area where we are weaker.
Or do you think ‘they should just spend more money’ - which for me is just always a poor argument - especially if they are spending any - which seems like they will be.
Depends on how much extra you think we need to pay to get JCH over the line now. From what I've read (and I always take these things with a pinch of salt) we are offering c£400k and Peterborough want more (but less than the £800k they paid for him).
So......settle on £600k & be done with it.
The £200k might be the difference between League 1 football next season or League 2.
FWIW.....I see Carlisle (bottom of the table) have signed 2 players today - 1 a striker. No idea if the striker is any good (but coming from Ireland I'll very much doubt he is better than JCH) but I also doubt they have the money or clout we do - although just been taken over they might have a few pounds to spend. My point being......they dont want to go down so are doing what they see as their best way of staying up. We have to do the same.
Every year people get over-dramatic and have a meltdown that we are going down, we never get close. Even if we drop further down then a change in manager usually does the trick
We aren’t going down, signings should be with next season in mind. If Peterborough are taking the piss on JCH (they probably are, at least until after we play them) then wait and get him cheaper later this month
We need a forward.....will be disappointing if we haven't signed on for Saturday's game.....
I really haven't bothered much with this thread this week as I didn't think much would happen for the first few days.
I believe the window shuts 4 weeks today, 11pm on Thursday 1st Feb, so there is still plenty of time to bring in recruits.
However, we currently have no fit senior strikers & if Alfie May doesnt recover in time for Saturday we could see ourselves going into another match with just Kanu as a lone striker (with Casey on the bench). It may be the case that we are all resigned to the fact that the play-offs are out of reach but the bottom 4 places aren't. The more games we play with little or no striking options the more games we wont win.
Signing a striker is really one of the first pieces of transfer business we should be doing. If the club think we can muddle through until Aneke is back then they are seriously deluded.
Where as I agree and want a striker in as soon as possible, you always over simplify the process.
We have a budget, and it is not going to be bottomless. We also know there are plenty of areas of squad that need improvement.
With that budget we know we after JCH who I think in my own personal opinion is elite at this level.
I am sure currently Darren MacAnthony is wanting people to pay over the odds for him.
Are you risking missing out on JCH for a striker who is not as proven at this level, or paying over the odds for JCH and having less budget to buy your first choice defensive options, and area where we are weaker.
Or do you think ‘they should just spend more money’ - which for me is just always a poor argument - especially if they are spending any - which seems like they will be.
Depends on how much extra you think we need to pay to get JCH over the line now. From what I've read (and I always take these things with a pinch of salt) we are offering c£400k and Peterborough want more (but less than the £800k they paid for him).
So......settle on £600k & be done with it.
The £200k might be the difference between League 1 football next season or League 2.
FWIW.....I see Carlisle (bottom of the table) have signed 2 players today - 1 a striker. No idea if the striker is any good (but coming from Ireland I'll very much doubt he is better than JCH) but I also doubt they have the money or clout we do - although just been taken over they might have a few pounds to spend. My point being......they dont want to go down so are doing what they see as their best way of staying up. We have to do the same.
Every year people get over-dramatic and have a meltdown that we are going down, we never get close. Even if we drop further down then a change in manager usually does the trick
We aren’t going down, signings should be with next season in mind. If Peterborough are taking the piss on JCH (they probably are, at least until after we play them) then wait and get him cheaper later this month
Lose to Port Vale & lose to Peterborough I doubt if JCH will want to sign for us. Might not be in a relegation scrap but playing the next 4 months just to finish above mid table is not a good prospect for lots of players.
Might also be a reason why we've not had many strong rumours of other players joining. Would YOU want to join Charlton atm ? Maybe in the summer when you can see where the club finished......but now ?
I have just remembered that at the end of the summer window I said "we might lack quality but we do have depth in most positions" turns out I know nothing about football. No quality and no depth.
We need a forward.....will be disappointing if we haven't signed on for Saturday's game.....
I really haven't bothered much with this thread this week as I didn't think much would happen for the first few days.
I believe the window shuts 4 weeks today, 11pm on Thursday 1st Feb, so there is still plenty of time to bring in recruits.
However, we currently have no fit senior strikers & if Alfie May doesnt recover in time for Saturday we could see ourselves going into another match with just Kanu as a lone striker (with Casey on the bench). It may be the case that we are all resigned to the fact that the play-offs are out of reach but the bottom 4 places aren't. The more games we play with little or no striking options the more games we wont win.
Signing a striker is really one of the first pieces of transfer business we should be doing. If the club think we can muddle through until Aneke is back then they are seriously deluded.
Where as I agree and want a striker in as soon as possible, you always over simplify the process.
We have a budget, and it is not going to be bottomless. We also know there are plenty of areas of squad that need improvement.
With that budget we know we after JCH who I think in my own personal opinion is elite at this level.
I am sure currently Darren MacAnthony is wanting people to pay over the odds for him.
Are you risking missing out on JCH for a striker who is not as proven at this level, or paying over the odds for JCH and having less budget to buy your first choice defensive options, and area where we are weaker.
Or do you think ‘they should just spend more money’ - which for me is just always a poor argument - especially if they are spending any - which seems like they will be.
Depends on how much extra you think we need to pay to get JCH over the line now. From what I've read (and I always take these things with a pinch of salt) we are offering c£400k and Peterborough want more (but less than the £800k they paid for him).
So......settle on £600k & be done with it.
The £200k might be the difference between League 1 football next season or League 2.
FWIW.....I see Carlisle (bottom of the table) have signed 2 players today - 1 a striker. No idea if the striker is any good (but coming from Ireland I'll very much doubt he is better than JCH) but I also doubt they have the money or clout we do - although just been taken over they might have a few pounds to spend. My point being......they dont want to go down so are doing what they see as their best way of staying up. We have to do the same.
Every year people get over-dramatic and have a meltdown that we are going down, we never get close. Even if we drop further down then a change in manager usually does the trick
We aren’t going down, signings should be with next season in mind. If Peterborough are taking the piss on JCH (they probably are, at least until after we play them) then wait and get him cheaper later this month
Lose to Port Vale & lose to Peterborough I doubt if JCH will want to sign for us. Might not be in a relegation scrap but playing the next 4 months just to finish above mid table is not a good prospect for lots of players.
Might also be a reason why we've not had many strong rumours of other players joining. Would YOU want to join Charlton atm ? Maybe in the summer when you can see where the club finished......but now ?
I think players will follow £s and whatever vision is shared with them. If JCH was offered better wages and an outline of X,Y,Z players coming through the door this window and next, suspect that would be enough. I think things are different at Premier League or top division football across the globe, but we are now in journeymen territory, other than one or two youngsters who may develop into stars in due course.
I have just remembered that at the end of the summer window I said "we might lack quality but we do have depth in most positions" turns out I know nothing about football. No quality and no depth.
If we new anything about football we wouldn't be supporting Charlton, Canters!
None of the links so far have impressed me bar JCH who I suspect we won't shell out for and Docherty could be a coup but again I don't see it. JCH could be formidable with May and Docherty is your very box-to-box type. Would make a great partner with Dobbo assuming the captain stays.
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
I have just remembered that at the end of the summer window I said "we might lack quality but we do have depth in most positions" turns out I know nothing about football. No quality and no depth.
Well exactly we are stuck with a team 4/5ths able to play a 4-3-3 and 4/5ths able to play a 3-5-2.
And neither can get the best out of both our best attacking threats simultaneously anyway.
None of the links so far have impressed me bar JCH who I suspect we won't shell out for and Docherty could be a coup but again I don't see it. JCH could be formidable with May and Docherty is your very box-to-box type. Would make a great partner with Dobbo assuming the captain stays.
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
If we want to replace Hector in the backline, it surely wouldn’t hurt to replace him with what could turn out to be a better version of him.
None of the links so far have impressed me bar JCH who I suspect we won't shell out for and Docherty could be a coup but again I don't see it. JCH could be formidable with May and Docherty is your very box-to-box type. Would make a great partner with Dobbo assuming the captain stays.
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
Who are the quality players you’d prefer? We need to add experience, leadership and physicality to the squad. That’s more likely to be older players from above.
All four would cost a fee rather than being free agents and loanees. Too early to say if it’s same old, nothing has happened yet but they’d be more promising than Bonne on a free, Penney and Kane on loan etc that we saw last year.
Reckon the centre half, JCH and 2 central midfielders incoming - whilst retaining dobbo and CBT til end of season then trying to do a deal with them - we will need to offload a few unwanted midfielders first though
Any proposed solution to any complex problem which begins "it's simple..." is automatically wrong.
Just spending money isn't enough.
Duchatelet spent so much he lost £13m in a season and we got relegated.
Sandgaard spent a lot of money but a lot of it was wasted on the likes of Schwarzt and Kirk.
Spending in itself isn't enough, this is the real world not football manager.
Of course, having a bigger budget is a huge advantage but you need to spend it well.
You need a good manager to coach the players you've brought in (radical idea but you could even let the manager pick those players).
You need a balanced squad, you need experience, leadership and flexibility.
You need good recruitment so you get the right personalities.
You need good scouting to see what opposition are doing.
You need the right sports science people and facilities to get and keep the players fit.
You need good facilities and infrastructure to back up all of that.
You need time and management to build a collection of individuals into a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.
No, it's not "simple". That's what Sandgaard and Duchatelet thought.
We've yet to see if GFP are any better.
Right, back to some rumours now.
Everything you just said is solved by money though and I am saying money gets you out of league 1, I understand the championship is a more complex beast (you spend even more money)
A good manager, is secured by money or having knowledge of managers on the up, which you need to buy out from their club.
A balanced squad you gain by spending money, good scouts are on good money, the right sports science, again money.
Everything you said just involves us spending more than the other teams to secure the top staff at this level?
Sandgaards arrogance, was his downfall, not the size of his wallet. Had he had the right people in his ear, we wouldn't be in this league still. Unfortunately he's his own man and refused to have the humility to let people give him the advice he needed.
Roland is old news and a lot more complex, he also had us in the championship whereas I am talking about league 1 here. Roland didn't spend the required cash to be competitive in the championship but that's a whole other argument.
Any ownership that comes in and talks about 'building projects' 'plans in place' is talking sh*t to save money. This league is tripe and it's no coincidence all the bigger spenders are in the top 8 (we'd probably be with a decent, non-journeyman manager)
You buy your way out of here, you aim to survive the following season in the championship and then you build there where players are more likely to stay and if they don't they go for reasonable fees. There is no long sustainability in this league or time for 'projects' as seen by our dwindling numbers and loss of interest in Charlton.
It's not just money though, it's money and good decision making. The decision making is where we've been lacking for so so long
You can have all the decision making in the world but cash trumps all.
I understand where you are coming from though and I have sort of covered that by mentioning Sandgaard.
Unfortunately based on our recent transfer history and the fact that Appleton is still in post, we evidently have neither currently until proven otherwise.
Think Plymouth are a good example of decision making being more important. Not denying that they've spent money but they're a relatively small club for the Championship and location makes them a hard sell. But they have a good philosophy and set up which has led to 2 coaches in a row being poached. Neither were big name expensive hires.
Plymouth are a good example but also a bit of an anomaly with the points tally they gained, especially after losing their manager.
Plymouth aren't some fairytale story though, they were the 8th highest spenders in the league in terms of wages and squad value (we were 9th) and the only teams ranked above them were, in order: Peterborough, Derby, Bolton, Barnsley, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday. All of those sides made up the top8 for that season, we were the only side in the top9 spend to not get top 9.
They utilised the loan market extremely well securing Azaz, Whittaker and Mumba who were all a huge success and pivotal in gaining promotion.
So although Plymouth are a team who beat the odds slightly, it wasn't a long term project, they heavily relied on outstanding loans and had to spend very competitive wages to gain promotion.
This season we currently sit in 10th in wages and squad value and are underperforming again. Out of the top 8 current biggest spenders in this league, all 6 of the teams in the play offs currently occupy those slots in the top8 spend.
It really is just about spending money in one way or another. It's so unlikely you'll ever see a team get promoted from this league doing it any other way. All the best coaches, scouts, players require decent cash, you can't do it on the cheap. Only a few have.
We shouldn't have to be one of those clubs like Burton who did or Shrewsbury who nearly did as we have more at our disposal every season in this poxy league.
Interested to know your sources on finances? Just enquiring
I don't have a source tbf. I am just basing our wages from what you can find online and what we hear from journos. In the past we have been made aware that we weren't willing to pay the going rates in the championship and then when we came down we wasn't spending big wages then either. It was only Thomas who then upped the wages and by the sounds of things, was a mistake as he was ill advised. We are now suffering from that and new investors who you can probably assume couldn't give a bollock about the future of us are trying to cut costs.
As for our players wages, I just go by transfermarkt for squad value and then articles about player wages, as an example:
Transfermarkt isn't too far off usually and a pretty credible site.
So all in all based on the calibre of player we sign (injured wantaways usually) the fact we never seem to be able to tie down good players (at risk of losing two currently), that a few journos have said we don't pay good wages and our recent transfer activity. Everything suggests to me that our finances aren't up to much. When they were and we had an ambitious owner (Sandgaard) he was ill advised, it was all passed away and now we are suffering as he didn't want to see out the project of a failing club
None of the links so far have impressed me bar JCH who I suspect we won't shell out for and Docherty could be a coup but again I don't see it. JCH could be formidable with May and Docherty is your very box-to-box type. Would make a great partner with Dobbo assuming the captain stays.
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
It is only the 4th. day of the transfer window and that includes a bank holiday, I suggest patience and less ill thought comments which seem to be based on social media chatter.
Is this the earliest in a transfer window people have been throwing wobblies? Fuck me, it's almost like there's a competition on being first to moan about absolutely everything
None of the links so far have impressed me bar JCH who I suspect we won't shell out for and Docherty could be a coup but again I don't see it. JCH could be formidable with May and Docherty is your very box-to-box type. Would make a great partner with Dobbo assuming the captain stays.
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
If we want to replace Hector in the backline, it surely wouldn’t hurt to replace him with what could turn out to be a better version of him.
Out of 3 of those posts Cal, one said they need to do better and the others have basically just highlighted he's good at the long ball.
I want us to replace Hector with a completely different type of centre back, not a similar one.
He's probably not a bad player but it's mainly the injury issue that concerns me, how many times have we done this now and been stung? Surely our scouts can identify centre backs that are playing week in and week out that want a move or we could attain.
Any proposed solution to any complex problem which begins "it's simple..." is automatically wrong.
Just spending money isn't enough.
Duchatelet spent so much he lost £13m in a season and we got relegated.
Sandgaard spent a lot of money but a lot of it was wasted on the likes of Schwarzt and Kirk.
Spending in itself isn't enough, this is the real world not football manager.
Of course, having a bigger budget is a huge advantage but you need to spend it well.
You need a good manager to coach the players you've brought in (radical idea but you could even let the manager pick those players).
You need a balanced squad, you need experience, leadership and flexibility.
You need good recruitment so you get the right personalities.
You need good scouting to see what opposition are doing.
You need the right sports science people and facilities to get and keep the players fit.
You need good facilities and infrastructure to back up all of that.
You need time and management to build a collection of individuals into a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.
No, it's not "simple". That's what Sandgaard and Duchatelet thought.
We've yet to see if GFP are any better.
Right, back to some rumours now.
Everything you just said is solved by money though and I am saying money gets you out of league 1, I understand the championship is a more complex beast (you spend even more money)
A good manager, is secured by money or having knowledge of managers on the up, which you need to buy out from their club.
A balanced squad you gain by spending money, good scouts are on good money, the right sports science, again money.
Everything you said just involves us spending more than the other teams to secure the top staff at this level?
Sandgaards arrogance, was his downfall, not the size of his wallet. Had he had the right people in his ear, we wouldn't be in this league still. Unfortunately he's his own man and refused to have the humility to let people give him the advice he needed.
Roland is old news and a lot more complex, he also had us in the championship whereas I am talking about league 1 here. Roland didn't spend the required cash to be competitive in the championship but that's a whole other argument.
Any ownership that comes in and talks about 'building projects' 'plans in place' is talking sh*t to save money. This league is tripe and it's no coincidence all the bigger spenders are in the top 8 (we'd probably be with a decent, non-journeyman manager)
You buy your way out of here, you aim to survive the following season in the championship and then you build there where players are more likely to stay and if they don't they go for reasonable fees. There is no long sustainability in this league or time for 'projects' as seen by our dwindling numbers and loss of interest in Charlton.
It's not just money though, it's money and good decision making. The decision making is where we've been lacking for so so long
You can have all the decision making in the world but cash trumps all.
I understand where you are coming from though and I have sort of covered that by mentioning Sandgaard.
Unfortunately based on our recent transfer history and the fact that Appleton is still in post, we evidently have neither currently until proven otherwise.
Think Plymouth are a good example of decision making being more important. Not denying that they've spent money but they're a relatively small club for the Championship and location makes them a hard sell. But they have a good philosophy and set up which has led to 2 coaches in a row being poached. Neither were big name expensive hires.
Plymouth are a good example but also a bit of an anomaly with the points tally they gained, especially after losing their manager.
Plymouth aren't some fairytale story though, they were the 8th highest spenders in the league in terms of wages and squad value (we were 9th) and the only teams ranked above them were, in order: Peterborough, Derby, Bolton, Barnsley, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday. All of those sides made up the top8 for that season, we were the only side in the top9 spend to not get top 9.
They utilised the loan market extremely well securing Azaz, Whittaker and Mumba who were all a huge success and pivotal in gaining promotion.
So although Plymouth are a team who beat the odds slightly, it wasn't a long term project, they heavily relied on outstanding loans and had to spend very competitive wages to gain promotion.
This season we currently sit in 10th in wages and squad value and are underperforming again. Out of the top 8 current biggest spenders in this league, all 6 of the teams in the play offs currently occupy those slots in the top8 spend.
It really is just about spending money in one way or another. It's so unlikely you'll ever see a team get promoted from this league doing it any other way. All the best coaches, scouts, players require decent cash, you can't do it on the cheap. Only a few have.
We shouldn't have to be one of those clubs like Burton who did or Shrewsbury who nearly did as we have more at our disposal every season in this poxy league.
Interested to know your sources on finances? Just enquiring
I don't have a source tbf. I am just basing our wages from what you can find online and what we hear from journos. In the past we have been made aware that we weren't willing to pay the going rates in the championship and then when we came down we wasn't spending big wages then either. It was only Thomas who then upped the wages and by the sounds of things, was a mistake as he was ill advised. We are now suffering from that and new investors who you can probably assume couldn't give a bollock about the future of us are trying to cut costs.
As for our players wages, I just go by transfermarkt for squad value and then articles about player wages, as an example:
Transfermarkt isn't too far off usually and a pretty credible site.
So all in all based on the calibre of player we sign (injured wantaways usually) the fact we never seem to be able to tie down good players (at risk of losing two currently), that a few journos have said we don't pay good wages and our recent transfer activity. Everything suggests to me that our finances aren't up to much. When they were and we had an ambitious owner (Sandgaard) he was ill advised, it was all passed away and now we are suffering as he didn't want to see out the project of a failing club
I wouldn't take much note of salary sport, as per my earlier comment, I was told no one was on more than 5k a week, Fraser for example is listed at 7k, he isn't its closer to 4k. Aneke is the highest paid from what I understood
Any proposed solution to any complex problem which begins "it's simple..." is automatically wrong.
Just spending money isn't enough.
Duchatelet spent so much he lost £13m in a season and we got relegated.
Sandgaard spent a lot of money but a lot of it was wasted on the likes of Schwarzt and Kirk.
Spending in itself isn't enough, this is the real world not football manager.
Of course, having a bigger budget is a huge advantage but you need to spend it well.
You need a good manager to coach the players you've brought in (radical idea but you could even let the manager pick those players).
You need a balanced squad, you need experience, leadership and flexibility.
You need good recruitment so you get the right personalities.
You need good scouting to see what opposition are doing.
You need the right sports science people and facilities to get and keep the players fit.
You need good facilities and infrastructure to back up all of that.
You need time and management to build a collection of individuals into a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.
No, it's not "simple". That's what Sandgaard and Duchatelet thought.
We've yet to see if GFP are any better.
Right, back to some rumours now.
Everything you just said is solved by money though and I am saying money gets you out of league 1, I understand the championship is a more complex beast (you spend even more money)
A good manager, is secured by money or having knowledge of managers on the up, which you need to buy out from their club.
A balanced squad you gain by spending money, good scouts are on good money, the right sports science, again money.
Everything you said just involves us spending more than the other teams to secure the top staff at this level?
Sandgaards arrogance, was his downfall, not the size of his wallet. Had he had the right people in his ear, we wouldn't be in this league still. Unfortunately he's his own man and refused to have the humility to let people give him the advice he needed.
Roland is old news and a lot more complex, he also had us in the championship whereas I am talking about league 1 here. Roland didn't spend the required cash to be competitive in the championship but that's a whole other argument.
Any ownership that comes in and talks about 'building projects' 'plans in place' is talking sh*t to save money. This league is tripe and it's no coincidence all the bigger spenders are in the top 8 (we'd probably be with a decent, non-journeyman manager)
You buy your way out of here, you aim to survive the following season in the championship and then you build there where players are more likely to stay and if they don't they go for reasonable fees. There is no long sustainability in this league or time for 'projects' as seen by our dwindling numbers and loss of interest in Charlton.
It's not just money though, it's money and good decision making. The decision making is where we've been lacking for so so long
You can have all the decision making in the world but cash trumps all.
I understand where you are coming from though and I have sort of covered that by mentioning Sandgaard.
Unfortunately based on our recent transfer history and the fact that Appleton is still in post, we evidently have neither currently until proven otherwise.
Think Plymouth are a good example of decision making being more important. Not denying that they've spent money but they're a relatively small club for the Championship and location makes them a hard sell. But they have a good philosophy and set up which has led to 2 coaches in a row being poached. Neither were big name expensive hires.
Plymouth are a good example but also a bit of an anomaly with the points tally they gained, especially after losing their manager.
Plymouth aren't some fairytale story though, they were the 8th highest spenders in the league in terms of wages and squad value (we were 9th) and the only teams ranked above them were, in order: Peterborough, Derby, Bolton, Barnsley, Ipswich, Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday. All of those sides made up the top8 for that season, we were the only side in the top9 spend to not get top 9.
They utilised the loan market extremely well securing Azaz, Whittaker and Mumba who were all a huge success and pivotal in gaining promotion.
So although Plymouth are a team who beat the odds slightly, it wasn't a long term project, they heavily relied on outstanding loans and had to spend very competitive wages to gain promotion.
This season we currently sit in 10th in wages and squad value and are underperforming again. Out of the top 8 current biggest spenders in this league, all 6 of the teams in the play offs currently occupy those slots in the top8 spend.
It really is just about spending money in one way or another. It's so unlikely you'll ever see a team get promoted from this league doing it any other way. All the best coaches, scouts, players require decent cash, you can't do it on the cheap. Only a few have.
We shouldn't have to be one of those clubs like Burton who did or Shrewsbury who nearly did as we have more at our disposal every season in this poxy league.
Interested to know your sources on finances? Just enquiring
I don't have a source tbf. I am just basing our wages from what you can find online and what we hear from journos. In the past we have been made aware that we weren't willing to pay the going rates in the championship and then when we came down we wasn't spending big wages then either. It was only Thomas who then upped the wages and by the sounds of things, was a mistake as he was ill advised. We are now suffering from that and new investors who you can probably assume couldn't give a bollock about the future of us are trying to cut costs.
As for our players wages, I just go by transfermarkt for squad value and then articles about player wages, as an example:
Transfermarkt isn't too far off usually and a pretty credible site.
So all in all based on the calibre of player we sign (injured wantaways usually) the fact we never seem to be able to tie down good players (at risk of losing two currently), that a few journos have said we don't pay good wages and our recent transfer activity. Everything suggests to me that our finances aren't up to much. When they were and we had an ambitious owner (Sandgaard) he was ill advised, it was all passed away and now we are suffering as he didn't want to see out the project of a failing club
This is nonsensical. You’ve got a point of view in your mind (“the new owners have no ambition”) and then using confirmation bias to support that.
10th in squad value according to transfermarkt doesn’t really mean anything, and especially isn’t a correlation to how much we’re paying in wages.
Then looking at the “top salaries” links you’ve posted - almost all of them are either on loan from Premier League or Championship clubs (so the club they’re playing for isn’t paying 100% - Tedic is not getting 13k per week from us nor was he getting that from Barnsley) OR they are legacy contracts from clubs who were recently established in the Championship. The one exception on these lists is Ipswich who were signing established Championship quality players so had to fork out the money to do so. That doesn’t mean 23 other clubs were being cheap, it means Ipswich were and are relatively minted.
If you can find a potential signing that fell through specifically because we were being cheap on wages, I might be more inclined to believe you. As it is, you’re comparing us, a club who’s spent most of the last 8 years in League One, with Premier League and Championship contracts.
None of the links so far have impressed me bar JCH who I suspect we won't shell out for and Docherty could be a coup but again I don't see it. JCH could be formidable with May and Docherty is your very box-to-box type. Would make a great partner with Dobbo assuming the captain stays.
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
If we want to replace Hector in the backline, it surely wouldn’t hurt to replace him with what could turn out to be a better version of him.
Out of 3 of those posts Cal, one said they need to do better and the others have basically just highlighted he's good at the long ball.
I want us to replace Hector with a completely different type of centre back, not a similar one.
He's probably not a bad player but it's mainly the injury issue that concerns me, how many times have we done this now and been stung? Surely our scouts can identify centre backs that are playing week in and week out that want a move or we could attain.
Plymouth are in the Championship now - they think he’s not good enough to be a regular starter at that level. The same thing happened here with Matt Taylor some years ago.
He’s been playing 70-80 games in the two seasons prior to this. He started this season with a bit of a setback but recently played against Cardiff and was apparently solid. The opinions I’ve read is that he’d be welcome to stay as a squad player there but he wants first team football.
I understand we’re all scared of players that have any injuries at all but I just don’t think it’s realistic to focus only on players that have never missed a game ever. Be cautious, but don’t automatically dismiss them out of hand, and definitely don’t use it as evidence to say the new owners are being cheap.
Well, proof will be in the pudding then chaps. I head out for Stoke-on-Trent tomorrow and I am probably going to watch a team not good enough again when the people in charge have had the time to realise that for a number of weeks. Other clubs have done business already, funny how season after season it's not us getting it done early and faffing about, again.
If you want to believe these transfers are going to happen that's fine, I am simply sharing my thoughts on why I think they won't. Hopefully I'm wrong and we sign fantastic players and make the play-offs
None of the links so far have impressed me bar JCH who I suspect we won't shell out for and Docherty could be a coup but again I don't see it. JCH could be formidable with May and Docherty is your very box-to-box type. Would make a great partner with Dobbo assuming the captain stays.
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
We haven’t signed any of them yet so it means nothing, but I think all 4 look like they’d be good signings. Personally Coventry and Docherty would be the standouts so I hope we get at least 1 of them done
There is nothing wrong with signing players from leagues above, in fact it should be encouraged surely? Better than the likes of Jaiyesimi, Payne, Egbo, Kirk, Lavelle etc that we’ve signed from Leagues 1 & 2. The best L1/L2 players cost millions nowadays, we can’t afford that. Better players for better value exist in championship squads
We need a forward.....will be disappointing if we haven't signed on for Saturday's game.....
Strikers are the hardest position to fill .. said before Peterbro not going to sell us a striker when we are playing them next week … last thing they want is him scoring the winner against them
None of the links so far have impressed me bar JCH who I suspect we won't shell out for and Docherty could be a coup but again I don't see it. JCH could be formidable with May and Docherty is your very box-to-box type. Would make a great partner with Dobbo assuming the captain stays.
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
We haven’t signed any of them yet so it means nothing, but I think all 4 look like they’d be good signings. Personally Coventry and Docherty would be the standouts so I hope we get at least 1 of them done
There is nothing wrong with signing players from leagues above, in fact it should be encouraged surely? Better than the likes of Jaiyesimi, Payne, Egbo, Kirk, Lavelle etc that we’ve signed from Leagues 1 & 2. The best L1/L2 players cost millions nowadays, we can’t afford that. Better players for better value exist in championship squads
Signing from league above = castoffs or injury prone, not willing to pay the going rate for a good one
Signings from this league = just because he played well against us doesn’t mean anything, probably wants more than we’re willing to pay
Signings from league below = never going to make the step up, won’t want a big wage
These are the conclusions you can draw when you have a pre-determined outcome in your head.
What are the origins of the "injury prone" comments given he's played so many games for Plymouth?
Just a few things I've seen online, but he's been at Plymouth since 2021 and made 79 appearance from what I can see, so out of a possible 120 games or so he could have played he's missed a fair share. Allegedly the groin issues are recurring and something that seems to have to be managed? Again just going by what I read when I search about these players, try not to take it as gospel like some posters clearly do when I share my own personal thoughts.
Just a few of the things I've seen after a quick search, I understand players get injured, it's normal. The concern for me is our history when signings these types of players has never been good.
Ah right. I wondered where it came from. But I guess 22 of those games are this season which I presume he's missed because he's not first choice anymore, so if you remove that, he's played 79 of 99.
If there is anything wrong with his groin at all then I hope we pass.
None of the links so far have impressed me bar JCH who I suspect we won't shell out for and Docherty could be a coup but again I don't see it. JCH could be formidable with May and Docherty is your very box-to-box type. Would make a great partner with Dobbo assuming the captain stays.
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
We haven’t signed any of them yet so it means nothing, but I think all 4 look like they’d be good signings. Personally Coventry and Docherty would be the standouts so I hope we get at least 1 of them done
There is nothing wrong with signing players from leagues above, in fact it should be encouraged surely? Better than the likes of Jaiyesimi, Payne, Egbo, Kirk, Lavelle etc that we’ve signed from Leagues 1 & 2. The best L1/L2 players cost millions nowadays, we can’t afford that. Better players for better value exist in championship squads
Signing from league above = castoffs or injury prone, not willing to pay the going rate for a good one
Signings from this league = just because he played well against us doesn’t mean anything, probably wants more than we’re willing to pay
Signings from league below = never going to make the step up, won’t want a big wage
These are the conclusions you can draw when you have a pre-determined outcome in your head.
It frustrates me to see such negativity too, but I do get why the level of scepticism has never been higher. Until the day the sceptics are proved wrong, and they do want to be, I don't doubt that, then unfortunately we're in for more of the same.
Charlton Life are delighted to announce the permanent signing of the letter ‘s’. It’s fit and available for immediate selection, and goes straight into the title of the popular thread ‘January 2024 Transfer Rumour’.
Charlton Life’s owners were keen to pounce early in the window following growing criticism that thread titles were not properly resourced. We’re delighted to secure the popular additional letter and fought off Championship interest from nearby rivals Millwall Online, for their thread ‘Wotz you favourite bicuit’
A poor bit of buine. I don’t ee what gap thi letter can fill, whatoever. Mack of a panic buy. The adminitrator are totally cluele.
Ah right. I wondered where it came from. But I guess 22 of those games are this season which I presume he's missed because he's not first choice anymore, so if you remove that, he's played 79 of 99.
If there is anything wrong with his groin at all then I hope we pass.
79 out of 99 doesn’t suggest he’s injury prone when it presumably includes games in 3 cups, the odd minor injury, occasional suspension, being an unused sub etc.
If we’re only looking for players who play 50+ games every season we’ll really be limiting players we can sign.
Comments
Might also be a reason why we've not had many strong rumours of other players joining. Would YOU want to join Charlton atm ? Maybe in the summer when you can see where the club finished......but now ?
Coventry I really am not sure about, don't know enough/haven't watched him enough. I've seen a lot of people mention his MK Dons performance, but we are pants and I've seen loads of players do well against us and not light the pitch up in other games. Especially towards the end of Jackos tenure where we genuinely looked useless.
One signing I definitely don't like the sound of is Gillesphey which is probably the one who is a goer out of the lot. We have made the mistake too many times of taking other clubs bit part players who are struggling with injuries in particular. This screams of that. I've seen Plymouth fans annoyed when he allegedly failed the medical and saying 'more bad luck' and seen some pretty in-depth reports on him.
Basically sounds like he has no pace (which we struggle with as is) isn't particularly strong or an aerial threat but his main strength is he can ping a ball and in a back 3 he is dependable. We don't play a back 3 and as much as I give him grief, we already have Hector who can ping a ball to all of our non-physical forwards.
Just sounds like an on the cheap window again, especially if we can't get JCH who is proven and does what he says on the tin and we now know is realistic.
There are quality players in this league and below, why are we going for the ones who are out of favour at their current clubs or coming back from injuries? Same old Charlton for me
And neither can get the best out of both our best attacking threats simultaneously anyway.
These Plymouth fans don’t seem too upset at the failed medical rumour: https://pasoti.co.uk/threads/gillesphey.126368/
All four would cost a fee rather than being free agents and loanees. Too early to say if it’s same old, nothing has happened yet but they’d be more promising than Bonne on a free, Penney and Kane on loan etc that we saw last year.
As for our players wages, I just go by transfermarkt for squad value and then articles about player wages, as an example:
https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/sport/football/peterborough-united/the-staggering-weekly-wages-of-league-ones-highest-paid-players-and-the-sheffield-wednesday-ipswich-town-derby-county-plymouth-argyle-bolton-wanderers-and-wycombe-wanderers-players-who-make-the-list-3991003
https://salarysport.com/football/league-one/highest-paid/
These two articles align with each other and make sense.
This site shows us we sit 10th currently:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/league-one/marktwerteverein/wettbewerb/GB3
Transfermarkt isn't too far off usually and a pretty credible site.
So all in all based on the calibre of player we sign (injured wantaways usually) the fact we never seem to be able to tie down good players (at risk of losing two currently), that a few journos have said we don't pay good wages and our recent transfer activity. Everything suggests to me that our finances aren't up to much. When they were and we had an ambitious owner (Sandgaard) he was ill advised, it was all passed away and now we are suffering as he didn't want to see out the project of a failing club
https://pasoti.co.uk/threads/january-transfer-window-rumour-round-up.125931/page-18#post-2460501
I want us to replace Hector with a completely different type of centre back, not a similar one.
He's probably not a bad player but it's mainly the injury issue that concerns me, how many times have we done this now and been stung? Surely our scouts can identify centre backs that are playing week in and week out that want a move or we could attain.
10th in squad value according to transfermarkt doesn’t really mean anything, and especially isn’t a correlation to how much we’re paying in wages.
Then looking at the “top salaries” links you’ve posted - almost all of them are either on loan from Premier League or Championship clubs (so the club they’re playing for isn’t paying 100% - Tedic is not getting 13k per week from us nor was he getting that from Barnsley) OR they are legacy contracts from clubs who were recently established in the Championship. The one exception on these lists is Ipswich who were signing established Championship quality players so had to fork out the money to do so. That doesn’t mean 23 other clubs were being cheap, it means Ipswich were and are relatively minted.
If you can find a potential signing that fell through specifically because we were being cheap on wages, I might be more inclined to believe you. As it is, you’re comparing us, a club who’s spent most of the last 8 years in League One, with Premier League and Championship contracts.
He’s been playing 70-80 games in the two seasons prior to this. He started this season with a bit of a setback but recently played against Cardiff and was apparently solid. The opinions I’ve read is that he’d be welcome to stay as a squad player there but he wants first team football.
I understand we’re all scared of players that have any injuries at all but I just don’t think it’s realistic to focus only on players that have never missed a game ever. Be cautious, but don’t automatically dismiss them out of hand, and definitely don’t use it as evidence to say the new owners are being cheap.
If you want to believe these transfers are going to happen that's fine, I am simply sharing my thoughts on why I think they won't. Hopefully I'm wrong and we sign fantastic players and make the play-offs
There is nothing wrong with signing players from leagues above, in fact it should be encouraged surely? Better than the likes of Jaiyesimi, Payne, Egbo, Kirk, Lavelle etc that we’ve signed from Leagues 1 & 2. The best L1/L2 players cost millions nowadays, we can’t afford that. Better players for better value exist in championship squads
Signings from this league = just because he played well against us doesn’t mean anything, probably wants more than we’re willing to pay
Signings from league below = never going to make the step up, won’t want a big wage
These are the conclusions you can draw when you have a pre-determined outcome in your head.
Just a few of the things I've seen after a quick search, I understand players get injured, it's normal. The concern for me is our history when signings these types of players has never been good.
If there is anything wrong with his groin at all then I hope we pass.
He may have been at Newport before Plymouth.
If we’re only looking for players who play 50+ games every season we’ll really be limiting players we can sign.
Some things never change!