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Climate Emergency
Comments
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Do we have to wait for Labour? @MrWalker must have evidence now if he posted that.swordfish said:
We'll know for sure soon enough if Labour honour their environmental pledges won't we? They must believe there won't be mass power cuts and that this new coal and oil exploration isn't necessary. Most of it's to serve the export rather than domestic market is my understanding.Chunes said:
You're saying without new oil fields there will be mass power cuts? What's the reasoning and evidence for this?MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
I understand it in the same way. Oil produced from new UK oil fields will be sold onto the global market. I'd like to understand how this stops mass blackouts.3 -
Not even solar panels. Solar roof tiles are a thing. How are they not now a standard legal requirement for new builds?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.4 -
Biggest source of energy for the UK?
Gas at nearly 40%
We import 50% of that gas.0 -
I won’t be around to see it but I’m confident that in 50 years if not sooner we’ll see mass migrations from uninhabitable parts of the world. Food shortages, Closed borders, civil unrest and probably armed conflict. I really don’t know what the window we have remaining to prevent this but I bet it’s no longer than ten years. Dreadful thing for me to say but in order to save civilisation as we know it we probably need a massive catastrophe with thousands upon thousand dying or displaced in one of the worlds leading countries like the USA or in Europe. Anywhere else and the west just wrings its hands and shrugs its shoulders.2
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I assume your roofs have had solar installed?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.1 -
With todays announcement it seems as though the Tory strategy ahead of the next GE won’t just be to push climate targets out, it will be to actively campaign against taking any steps required for our nation to play its part in averting the looming global catastrophe.At least it looks like voters won’t be able to say “they’re all the same” when comparing the parties this time round.3
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I live in a rented property, so no.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I assume your roofs have had solar installed?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1CXMwu530GgME14addick said:
I live in a rented property, so no.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I assume your roofs have had solar installed?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.
0 -
Do you think I should use my own money to put solar panels in? Would you use your own money to improve a property owned by someone else?SporadicAddick said:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1CXMwu530GgME14addick said:
I live in a rented property, so no.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I assume your roofs have had solar installed?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.0 - Sponsored links:
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I'll let Kentaddick answer that one.ME14addick said:
Do you think I should use my own money to put solar panels in? Would you use your own money to improve a property owned by someone else?SporadicAddick said:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1CXMwu530GgME14addick said:
I live in a rented property, so no.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I assume your roofs have had solar installed?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.1 -
The environment is either important enough to focus on, or it’s not.ME14addick said:
Do you think I should use my own money to put solar panels in? Would you use your own money to improve a property owned by someone else?SporadicAddick said:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1CXMwu530GgME14addick said:
I live in a rented property, so no.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I assume your roofs have had solar installed?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.So yes, if you believe it’s a worthy cause, you should get it done.0 -
Yeah, and while you're paying other people's maintenance bills Emmy, can you pay for mine to be done too? Jeez, the nonsense that gets posted on here at times.Stu_of_Kunming said:
The environment is either important enough to focus on, or it’s not.ME14addick said:
Do you think I should use my own money to put solar panels in? Would you use your own money to improve a property owned by someone else?SporadicAddick said:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1CXMwu530GgME14addick said:
I live in a rented property, so no.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I assume your roofs have had solar installed?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.So yes, if you believe it’s a worthy cause, you should get it done.12 -
.0
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I'll ask you the question that @SporadicAddick wouldn't answer, would you spend a lot of money on a property you don't own?Stu_of_Kunming said:
The environment is either important enough to focus on, or it’s not.ME14addick said:
Do you think I should use my own money to put solar panels in? Would you use your own money to improve a property owned by someone else?SporadicAddick said:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1CXMwu530GgME14addick said:
I live in a rented property, so no.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I assume your roofs have had solar installed?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.So yes, if you believe it’s a worthy cause, you should get it done.
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I'll answer. Yes.1
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Science. That’s at least one hope. Wouldn’t put it past the Chinese to come up with something. 🤞Stu_of_Kunming said:JamesSeed said:
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.Chunes said:
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.
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I live in rented accommodation and regularly spend my own money on it, because it improves my own life.ME14addick said:
I'll ask you the question that @SporadicAddick wouldn't answer, would you spend a lot of money on a property you don't own?Stu_of_Kunming said:
The environment is either important enough to focus on, or it’s not.ME14addick said:
Do you think I should use my own money to put solar panels in? Would you use your own money to improve a property owned by someone else?SporadicAddick said:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1CXMwu530GgME14addick said:
I live in a rented property, so no.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I assume your roofs have had solar installed?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.So yes, if you believe it’s a worthy cause, you should get it done.2 -
@Stig I assume you’re aware solar panels with dramatically decrease bills, it’s an investment in your own finances and the planet.But hey, much better to bang on about on a football forum, whilst driving a car, taking foreign holidays and not bothering with green initiatives at home.
As I said, the world is fucked and the vast majority simply don’t care enough.2 - Sponsored links:
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I am willing, and am quite green in quite a few areas. As a family we’ve cut back on red meant quite a lot, recycle most of the stuff that might otherwise go into landfill, and cycle or use public transport much of the time. Yes we have two holidays a year plus a trip to see my daughter in The Hague, but we offset the flights. We’re going by train next time as suggested by someone on the forum.Stu_of_Kunming said:JamesSeed said:
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.Chunes said:
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.But as I said, I’d support a government that reduced the amount of air travel we’re allowed to take if it was shown to make a difference.And in case the thread is getting you down, not everyone has given up:
This is on next week:LONDON CLIMATE TECHNOLOGY SHOW 2023
#CTS23
https://climatetechshow.com/Driving The Transition Towards A Net Zero Future
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-61659300.amp
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-61096212Not sure what the targets were (didn’t they talk about promising to plant a billion trees in the last election campaign?) but ‘360,000 trees were planted outside woodland equivalent to about 499 hectares of additional tree canopy– this represents an almost 1000 hectare increase in tree-planting compared to last year. These trees are important for increasing access to nature in urban areas and increasing tree cover closer to where people live.’
That's a start I suppose.1 -
Should someone who won't install solar or update the property in which they live in order to make it more eco, for whatever reason, be demanding that others should.
A suggestion could be that you approach your landlord and ask them to install solar and stick a premium on your monthly rent to pay for the installation. This could be covered by the savings on your electricity bill and, if that doesn't cover it, it has been done for the greater good and what price do you put on the planet?5 -
All those things are commendable, they really are, but deep down you know you can do more and for any real difference to be made, everyone MUST do more. Sadly - most - people just don’t want to, like with solar panels as discussed above. One poster is happy for the expense to become mandatory as long as it’s someone else.JamesSeed said:
I am willing, and am quite green in quite a few areas. As a family we’ve cut back on red meant quite a lot, recycle most of the stuff that might otherwise go into landfill, and cycle or use public transport much of the time. Yes we have two holidays a year plus a trip to see my daughter in The Hague, but we offset the flights. We’re going by train next time as suggested by someone on the forum.Stu_of_Kunming said:JamesSeed said:
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.Chunes said:
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.But as I said, I’d support a government that reduced the amount of air travel we’re allowed to take if it was shown to make a difference.Unfortunately people, including myself, are far too selfish to make any real difference and any government suggesting the necessary changes would be slaughtered at the ballot box.2 -
People being selfish means we need governments who will legislate to direct our behaviour
The problems you mention re: ballot box is why I see more hope in Chinese leadership on this - no need for ballot boxes!1 -
With the way things are going here, I think they’ll have bigger problems to address:(Siv_in_Norfolk said:People being selfish means we need governments who will legislate to direct our behaviour
The problems you mention re: ballot box is why I see more hope in Chinese leadership on this - no need for ballot boxes!0 -
Individuals who feel helpless can do a little bit to help the climate crisis by becoming vegetarian or vegan, not carelessly discarding plastic waste, and using buses more.
Some people won’t even try some simple things because China exists, exists manufacturing most of the ( non agrarian) stuff the world buys.2 -
I think the type of unthinking person you describe who won’t engage in even simple green actions like careful disposal of plastics will give absolutely zero thought to China. Some people are just un thick enough to cope with breathing.seth plum said:Individuals who feel helpless can do a little bit to help the climate crisis by becoming vegetarian or vegan, not carelessly discarding plastic waste, and using buses more.
Some people won’t even try some simple things because China exists, exists manufacturing most of the ( non agrarian) stuff the world buys.0 -
I feel like when we emphasis personal responsibility we might deflect from what really needs to be done? I recently worked on a documentary for National Geographic on coral depletion and plastics in the oceans. We were planning the story and talking to the marine biologists who work in ocean and coral restoration. The director wanted to end the video with the biologists telling the audience what they can do at home or in their personal lives to help.Stu_of_Kunming said:
All those things are commendable, they really are, but deep down you know you can do more and for any real difference to be made, everyone MUST do more. Sadly - most - people just don’t want to, like with solar panels as discussed above. One poster is happy for the expense to become mandatory as long as it’s someone else.JamesSeed said:
I am willing, and am quite green in quite a few areas. As a family we’ve cut back on red meant quite a lot, recycle most of the stuff that might otherwise go into landfill, and cycle or use public transport much of the time. Yes we have two holidays a year plus a trip to see my daughter in The Hague, but we offset the flights. We’re going by train next time as suggested by someone on the forum.Stu_of_Kunming said:JamesSeed said:
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.Chunes said:
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.But as I said, I’d support a government that reduced the amount of air travel we’re allowed to take if it was shown to make a difference.Unfortunately people, including myself, are far too selfish to make any real difference and any government suggesting the necessary changes would be slaughtered at the ballot box.
I expected them to say 'Don't use plastic straws' or something. They both said there really is nothing you can do personally, it comes down to government policy. That's what is wrecking coral and destroying sea life. As long as governments are freely pouring tons of crap into the ocean day by day, it will continue.
I think the environment is similar. The small things we do are to make ourselves feel better, or in some cases, have even been emphasised by the polluters lobby to distract from the fact that their clients and industries are the ones that need new government legislation and reform. That's the only way things are going to get better.
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Average cost of fitting solar panels to a house in the UK = £7,000Stu_of_Kunming said:@Stig I assume you’re aware solar panels with dramatically decrease bills, it’s an investment in your own finances and the planet.But hey, much better to bang on about on a football forum, whilst driving a car, taking foreign holidays and not bothering with green initiatives at home.
As I said, the world is fucked and the vast majority simply don’t care enough.
Average length of house tenancy in the UK = 4.3 years.
Suggested energy savings = up to £420pa.
Thats looking like an incredibly poor investment to me. Even before you consider the fact that the biggest single reason why people rent in the UK is because they do not even have the money to raise the deposit on a house.
What we need is concerted effort from the top to ensure that the best carbon savings schemes are available and beneficial to all. Not specious arguments about what individuals should be doing, that are seemingly designed to deflect from what government should be doing.8 -
I wish I could agree with you, I really do, unfortunately I don’t see how any government can bring in the necessary draconian changes required until Joe public are willing to put the needs of the planet before their own finances / lifestyle.Stig said:
Average cost of fitting solar panels to a house in the UK = £7,000Stu_of_Kunming said:@Stig I assume you’re aware solar panels with dramatically decrease bills, it’s an investment in your own finances and the planet.But hey, much better to bang on about on a football forum, whilst driving a car, taking foreign holidays and not bothering with green initiatives at home.
As I said, the world is fucked and the vast majority simply don’t care enough.
Average length of house tenancy in the UK = 4.3 years.
Suggested energy savings = up to £420pa.
Thats looking like an incredibly poor investment to me. Even before you consider the fact that the biggest single reason why people rent in the UK is because they do not even have the money to raise the deposit on a house.
What we need is concerted effort from the top to ensure that the best carbon savings schemes are available and beneficial to all. Not specious arguments about what individuals should be doing, that are seemingly designed to deflect from what government should be doing.
Of course the government should take the lead, but then who directs governments? Public desire. (Ok, maybe not the current UK government, but in general.People will find all the tricks they can to appease their own morals and conscious, because deep down they don’t way to do the right thing. Offset a plane journey? Come on now, the damage is done, it can’t just be offset by planting a tree that could have just as easily been planted without the flight taking place, but that would inconvenience people.To be clear, again, I fully include myself in the above and have zero faith in world governments even considering doing enough as it would be political suicide.2
