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Climate Emergency
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I think that anyone suggesting that a tenant makes unrealistic demands on their landlord, really doesn't understand the current state of the rental market in London & the South East. Good quality rental properties are in very short supply and rents have gone up enormously in the last couple of years.
We have a very good landlady, who lives in the property next door. The property we rent belonged to her parents and is the only property she lets out. In the 5 years we have been here she has replaced all the double glazing, upgraded the loft insulation and made repairs as necessary. In that that time she has put up the rent by a small amount each year and certainly not as much as she could do on the open market.
She knows that we are good tenants and look after the property and she is happy for us to make small improvements ourselves. We have made improvements to the garden and have done our best to make it wildlife friendly by planting pollinators.
We had planned to move to the coast when I reached pension age, however rents are now so unaffordable in those areas, in the whole of the south of England due to the proliferation of Airbnb and second homes, that we would need to move to the north to have a rent that is sustainable on our pensions (state and private), without an earned income.
Our rent is quite high in comparison to our income, but we feel reasonably secure here (as much as you can be as a tenant) and for the time being I am continuing to work so that we can stay here. I am hoping to reduce my working hours very soon.
It would be totally unrealistic to ask our landlady to put in solar panels and for us to increase our rent accordingly and @Stig gave good reasons why that is so.
It needs action at a Government level and there is no reason why solar panels shouldn't be fitted to all new homes and the costs of doing so must be a lot cheaper than retro-fitting.
It needs Government to make it easier for all homeowners to put in solar panels with subsidies, but of course that means less profit for the energy producers and providers, so a Government that puts the profits of those industries, before reducing the bills of ordinary people, is not going to do that.
I do make changes in the way I live, recycling as much as I can, making the garden wildlife friendly, I haven't flown for many years and although I own an aging petrol car, don't drive anywhere near as much as I used to, as I work from home 3 days a week. More working from home for those who are able, is a good way of reducing the number of vehicles and therefore reducing emissions and pollution.
It does need Governments to lead on action to mitigate Climate Change.
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That is all entirely reasonable, but then is it not somewhat hypocritical that you want legislation to come into place to force others to pay for solar panels on their property?Of course a construction company would pass the costs onto their customers, just like a landlord would a tenant.
As you said, it requires massive government intervention and financing, which simply isn’t going to happen. Look at what the current weapons in charge are currently doing, as a prime example.3 -
If anyone seriously expects tenants with, in the main insecure tenancy agreements to invest in solar energy they need their bumps feeling. Many and I’d say most who rent are in flats not houses so straight away with limited possibilities for independent green initiatives. Those who do rent houses considering an investment north of £7k with probably zero chance of actually seeing a cost benefit would be completely mad. Even the moronic snake oil salesman that is Grant Shapps VC and Bar commented that our national housing stock is old and energy inefficient. That along with renewables should be the focus for the government. Let’s make all our houses as energy efficient as we can as soon as we can. Grants and zero interest loans for all. There is not only a green benefit but it would help families to spend less on keeping warm and also create thousands of jobs in manufacturing, sale, supply and installation of green products.5
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How dare landlords invest in their own property!!Stu_of_Kunming said:That is all entirely reasonable, but then is it not somewhat hypocritical that you want legislation to come into place to force others to pay for solar panels on their property?Of course a construction company would pass the costs onto their customers, just like a landlord would a tenant.
As you said, it requires massive government intervention and financing, which simply isn’t going to happen. Look at what the current weapons in charge are currently doing, as a prime example.0 -
There's a lot you say there that I agree with Stu [edit - post at 10.52 today]. And yes, I do the same. I pay to offset the fact I ride my motorbike around for pleasure, but I agree it's not the same as not doing it in the first place. I like a trip abroad as much as anyone else, and more often than not haven't even bothered to offset. And here's one I struggle with. Is it right that I have a season ticket for Charlton which is a 90 mile round road trip for me, when I could just as easily (in fact, considerably more easily) walk around the corner and watch my village team?
Should I stop those behaviours? Almost certainly, if I was that bothered, then I should. Am I likely to change any of those behaviours? Probably not, and certainly not all the while that such things are the social norm. If making such lifestyle changes was accepted by everyone, then I'd do it. But I don't personally want to live what seems like a diminished lifestyle if no-one else is going to - that seems like an object lesson in futility. It's selfish I know but I think lots of us, probably most, are the same. And now I've thoroughly depressed myself. Time for a little spin on the bike to cheer myself up.0 -
This is what my original post stated:Stu_of_Kunming said:That is all entirely reasonable, but then is it not somewhat hypocritical that you want legislation to come into place to force others to pay for solar panels on their property?Of course a construction company would pass the costs onto their customers, just like a landlord would a tenant.
As you said, it requires massive government intervention and financing, which simply isn’t going to happen. Look at what the current weapons in charge are currently doing, as a prime example.
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
I didn't say that I want others to be forced to pay for solar panels on their property, but it is a lost opportunity to have so many roofs not being used to generate power from the sun, it needs Governments to support to make this possible.
Yes, construction companies would pass on the costs of solar installations, but it would still be more cost effective to do it at the time than do it later. Expanding the solar industry would bring down the costs of installation with economy of scale.
Something is going to have to change, because the children of today are going to live in a very difficult world without it.3 -
Because they don’t want to, as it would decrease their profit, like a tenant doesn’t, as it would increase their costs, same with people buying new builds.kentaddick said:
How dare landlords invest in their own property!!Stu_of_Kunming said:That is all entirely reasonable, but then is it not somewhat hypocritical that you want legislation to come into place to force others to pay for solar panels on their property?Of course a construction company would pass the costs onto their customers, just like a landlord would a tenant.
As you said, it requires massive government intervention and financing, which simply isn’t going to happen. Look at what the current weapons in charge are currently doing, as a prime example.Any government proposing to make these changes would be ruined; which is exactly my point.I’m not saying any of the above are in the wrong, just pointing out the vast majority are not willing to make necessary changes as we’d prefer to protect our own lifestyle and finances.1 -
Is making adjustments in order to live more sustainably a diminished lifestyle?
It might be a way of having a richer and more satisfying lifestyle.
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I had a quote for Solar about a year ago, with batteries.
I have a fairly big roof so can get quite a lot of panels on.
I was surprised to see that the estimated saving wasn't actually that big, talking around 12-15 years payback. By the time you add in lost return on capital it'd be nearer 20 years I suspect, by then I'd have had to have replaced the batteries (suggested a 10 year lifespan) so in reality I'm not sure I'd ever see a saving.
Unless there's some fairly substantial subsidies or the cost of solar/batteries falls dramatically I just don't see it being taken up anywhere near often enough. The guy who quoted after me saying no thanks said he quotes around 60 to every 1 who will take it up.
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We have some one bitching about making a flat more than a D EPC rating on the dumpster fire of the landlord thread - i guess I agree landlord’s very last priority is the health of the planet - just their own greedy profits.1
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It's possible, Seth. I looking forward to hearing your arguments why riding a pushbike it make my life richer and more satisfying than revving an engine. Or why spending my holidays here on the Essex Riviera would be more refreshing and stimulating than sampling some other places and cultures. I can though already see why it might be less frustrating following Great Wakering Rovers than Charlton Athletic.seth plum said:Is making adjustments in order to live more sustainably a diminished lifestyle?
It might be a way of having a richer and more satisfying lifestyle.2 -
If I cared enough about climate change and wanting to do my bit for the environment, why wouldn't I? Surely saving the planet outweighs a single financial outlay that could in turn increase my savings and help the planet.se9addick said:
You’re mad then.Dazzler21 said:I'll answer. Yes.
In addition to @Stigs post. Average tenancy doesn't allow for the fact almost all student accommodation rentals are counted in there and short term overseas workers coming over.0 -
Not all Landlords are greedy. Lots have a property to rent as a means to a pension. Many of course are right greedy money grabbing bastards with little or no concern for either their tenants or for the planet and that’s why the Government needs to make controls and impositions on landlords much tighter.kentaddick said:We have some one bitching about making a flat more than a D EPC rating on the dumpster fire of the landlord thread - i guess I agree landlord’s very last priority is the health of the planet - just their own greedy profits.0 -
maybe they should get a second job?ShootersHillGuru said:
Not all Landlords are greedy. Lots have a property to rent as a means to a pension. Many of course are right greedy money grabbing bastards with little or no concern for either their tenants or for the planet and that’s why the Government needs to make controls and impositions on landlords much tighter.kentaddick said:We have some one bitching about making a flat more than a D EPC rating on the dumpster fire of the landlord thread - i guess I agree landlord’s very last priority is the health of the planet - just their own greedy profits.0 -
kentaddick said:
maybe they should get a second job?ShootersHillGuru said:
Not all Landlords are greedy. Lots have a property to rent as a means to a pension. Many of course are right greedy money grabbing bastards with little or no concern for either their tenants or for the planet and that’s why the Government needs to make controls and impositions on landlords much tighter.kentaddick said:We have some one bitching about making a flat more than a D EPC rating on the dumpster fire of the landlord thread - i guess I agree landlord’s very last priority is the health of the planet - just their own greedy profits.
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Maybe riding a pushbike a bit more and driving a car a bit less can improve fitness and health.Stig said:
It's possible, Seth. I looking forward to hearing your arguments why riding a pushbike it make my life richer and more satisfying than revving an engine. Or why spending my holidays here on the Essex Riviera would be more refreshing and stimulating than sampling some other places and cultures. I can though already see why it might be less frustrating following Great Wakering Rovers than Charlton Athletic.seth plum said:Is making adjustments in order to live more sustainably a diminished lifestyle?
It might be a way of having a richer and more satisfying lifestyle.
I am massively biased but certainly think consuming plant based food is a far richer experience than consuming dead creatures.
As for direct experience of new things and other cultures being a rich and satisfying thing I certainly agree, but the balance between doing that and degrading the planet is something to consider.0 -
But it's an average, so it will also include renters (like my mum and dad) who have been in their house for 20+ years.Dazzler21 said:
If I cared enough about climate change and wanting to do my bit for the environment, why wouldn't I? Surely saving the planet outweighs a single financial outlay that could in turn increase my savings and help the planet.se9addick said:
You’re mad then.Dazzler21 said:I'll answer. Yes.
In addition to @Stigs post. Average tenancy doesn't allow for the fact almost all student accommodation rentals are counted in there and short term overseas workers coming over.0 -
Without prying and please ignore if you want but do your mum and dad rent from a local authority or housing association because that makes a massive difference in terms of longevity of lease.Chunes said:
But it's an average, so it will also include renters (like my mum and dad) who have been in their house for 20+ years.Dazzler21 said:
If I cared enough about climate change and wanting to do my bit for the environment, why wouldn't I? Surely saving the planet outweighs a single financial outlay that could in turn increase my savings and help the planet.se9addick said:
You’re mad then.Dazzler21 said:I'll answer. Yes.
In addition to @Stigs post. Average tenancy doesn't allow for the fact almost all student accommodation rentals are counted in there and short term overseas workers coming over.1 -
No, private landlord.ShootersHillGuru said:
Without prying and please ignore if you want but do your mum and dad rent from a local authority or housing association because that makes a massive difference in terms of longevity of lease.Chunes said:
But it's an average, so it will also include renters (like my mum and dad) who have been in their house for 20+ years.Dazzler21 said:
If I cared enough about climate change and wanting to do my bit for the environment, why wouldn't I? Surely saving the planet outweighs a single financial outlay that could in turn increase my savings and help the planet.se9addick said:
You’re mad then.Dazzler21 said:I'll answer. Yes.
In addition to @Stigs post. Average tenancy doesn't allow for the fact almost all student accommodation rentals are counted in there and short term overseas workers coming over.1 -
Thanks for posting that.Chunes said:
I feel like when we emphasis personal responsibility we might deflect from what really needs to be done? I recently worked on a documentary for National Geographic on coral depletion and plastics in the oceans. We were planning the story and talking to the marine biologists who work in ocean and coral restoration. The director wanted to end the video with the biologists telling the audience what they can do at home or in their personal lives to help.Stu_of_Kunming said:
All those things are commendable, they really are, but deep down you know you can do more and for any real difference to be made, everyone MUST do more. Sadly - most - people just don’t want to, like with solar panels as discussed above. One poster is happy for the expense to become mandatory as long as it’s someone else.JamesSeed said:
I am willing, and am quite green in quite a few areas. As a family we’ve cut back on red meant quite a lot, recycle most of the stuff that might otherwise go into landfill, and cycle or use public transport much of the time. Yes we have two holidays a year plus a trip to see my daughter in The Hague, but we offset the flights. We’re going by train next time as suggested by someone on the forum.Stu_of_Kunming said:JamesSeed said:
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.Chunes said:
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.But as I said, I’d support a government that reduced the amount of air travel we’re allowed to take if it was shown to make a difference.Unfortunately people, including myself, are far too selfish to make any real difference and any government suggesting the necessary changes would be slaughtered at the ballot box.
I expected them to say 'Don't use plastic straws' or something. They both said there really is nothing you can do personally, it comes down to government policy. That's what is wrecking coral and destroying sea life. As long as governments are freely pouring tons of crap into the ocean day by day, it will continue.
I think the environment is similar. The small things we do are to make ourselves feel better, or in some cases, have even been emphasised by the polluters lobby to distract from the fact that their clients and industries are the ones that need new government legislation and reform. That's the only way things are going to get better.
I agree; sure, we can all do our bit...but... far more important is global governance of how the species lives through regulation and legislation2 - Sponsored links:
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As a thought experiment, apply this to the introduction of indoor toilets in the UK.Stu_of_Kunming said:That is all entirely reasonable, but then is it not somewhat hypocritical that you want legislation to come into place to force others to pay for solar panels on their property?Of course a construction company would pass the costs onto their customers, just like a landlord would a tenant.
As you said, it requires massive government intervention and financing, which simply isn’t going to happen. Look at what the current weapons in charge are currently doing, as a prime example.
It became a requirement and, of course, pushed up the costs of construction....but...it was the right thing to do, right?
They phased in the subsidies for homeowners to add extensions for indoor toilets over time so that in the end it was basically free to do.1 -
If there were subsidies for Solar that made it 'basically free' then most houses would be having it installed. More subsidy is needed if we want to start to see it happening and also a more sensible rate for selling back to the grid. If I installed without batteries would be almost pointless as when the suns out no one is home!Siv_in_Norfolk said:
As a thought experiment, apply this to the introduction of indoor toilets in the UK.Stu_of_Kunming said:That is all entirely reasonable, but then is it not somewhat hypocritical that you want legislation to come into place to force others to pay for solar panels on their property?Of course a construction company would pass the costs onto their customers, just like a landlord would a tenant.
As you said, it requires massive government intervention and financing, which simply isn’t going to happen. Look at what the current weapons in charge are currently doing, as a prime example.
It became a requirement and, of course, pushed up the costs of construction....but...it was the right thing to do, right?
They phased in the subsidies for homeowners to add extensions for indoor toilets over time so that in the end it was basically free to do.1 -
This goes back to my earlier post that we need a government to go on a war footing. That may happen, but it may have gone too far by the time it happens.Stu_of_Kunming said:
All those things are commendable, they really are, but deep down you know you can do more and for any real difference to be made, everyone MUST do more. Sadly - most - people just don’t want to, like with solar panels as discussed above. One poster is happy for the expense to become mandatory as long as it’s someone else.JamesSeed said:
I am willing, and am quite green in quite a few areas. As a family we’ve cut back on red meant quite a lot, recycle most of the stuff that might otherwise go into landfill, and cycle or use public transport much of the time. Yes we have two holidays a year plus a trip to see my daughter in The Hague, but we offset the flights. We’re going by train next time as suggested by someone on the forum.Stu_of_Kunming said:JamesSeed said:
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.Chunes said:
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.But as I said, I’d support a government that reduced the amount of air travel we’re allowed to take if it was shown to make a difference.Unfortunately people, including myself, are far too selfish to make any real difference and any government suggesting the necessary changes would be slaughtered at the ballot box.
I’m still hopeful that science will find a way though.2 -
Chunes said:
I feel like when we emphasis personal responsibility we might deflect from what really needs to be done? I recently worked on a documentary for National Geographic on coral depletion and plastics in the oceans. We were planning the story and talking to the marine biologists who work in ocean and coral restoration. The director wanted to end the video with the biologists telling the audience what they can do at home or in their personal lives to help.Stu_of_Kunming said:
All those things are commendable, they really are, but deep down you know you can do more and for any real difference to be made, everyone MUST do more. Sadly - most - people just don’t want to, like with solar panels as discussed above. One poster is happy for the expense to become mandatory as long as it’s someone else.JamesSeed said:
I am willing, and am quite green in quite a few areas. As a family we’ve cut back on red meant quite a lot, recycle most of the stuff that might otherwise go into landfill, and cycle or use public transport much of the time. Yes we have two holidays a year plus a trip to see my daughter in The Hague, but we offset the flights. We’re going by train next time as suggested by someone on the forum.Stu_of_Kunming said:JamesSeed said:
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.Chunes said:
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.But as I said, I’d support a government that reduced the amount of air travel we’re allowed to take if it was shown to make a difference.Unfortunately people, including myself, are far too selfish to make any real difference and any government suggesting the necessary changes would be slaughtered at the ballot box.
I expected them to say 'Don't use plastic straws' or something. They both said there really is nothing you can do personally, it comes down to government policy. That's what is wrecking coral and destroying sea life. As long as governments are freely pouring tons of crap into the ocean day by day, it will continue.
I think the environment is similar. The small things we do are to make ourselves feel better, or in some cases, have even been emphasised by the polluters lobby to distract from the fact that their clients and industries are the ones that need new government legislation and reform. That's the only way things are going to get better.
If anything is a worthy cause then perhaps best do some research before calling out others for their contribution and approach?
Fitst off we have the UK political scene where we were once leading on net zero initiatives:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66905231
And whilst we might give up flying, eating meat and petrol / diesel cars as well as improving the energy efficiency of our homes that's just a tokenism contribution when one considers where real change is required.
Squabbling amongst ourselves is simply deflection and distraction from the vast impact of inter governmental collaboration across a wide range of areas:
https://www.iea.org/news/renewable-power-s-growth-is-being-turbocharged-as-countries-seek-to-strengthen-energy-security
Meanwhile renewables production continues to grow but global inequality means that in excess of 2BN people have no access to clean cooking and thus are forced to use coal, and other carbon fuels for cooking food.
It's clear that the climate crisis as well as the need for energy security as a result of Russian invasion of Ukraine, has pushed countries to move further into renewables. But its also clear that global demand for electricity is rising.
Whether national governments, multi nationals and peoples find a balance isn't so clear.
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We basically agree, to a point, I just don’t think any government is willing to even suggest making necessary changes as they know they’ll be ruined, we’re all just far too selfish to do what’s required.JamesSeed said:
This goes back to my earlier post that we need a government to go on a war footing. That may happen, but it may have gone too far by the time it happens.Stu_of_Kunming said:
All those things are commendable, they really are, but deep down you know you can do more and for any real difference to be made, everyone MUST do more. Sadly - most - people just don’t want to, like with solar panels as discussed above. One poster is happy for the expense to become mandatory as long as it’s someone else.JamesSeed said:
I am willing, and am quite green in quite a few areas. As a family we’ve cut back on red meant quite a lot, recycle most of the stuff that might otherwise go into landfill, and cycle or use public transport much of the time. Yes we have two holidays a year plus a trip to see my daughter in The Hague, but we offset the flights. We’re going by train next time as suggested by someone on the forum.Stu_of_Kunming said:JamesSeed said:
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.Chunes said:
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.But as I said, I’d support a government that reduced the amount of air travel we’re allowed to take if it was shown to make a difference.Unfortunately people, including myself, are far too selfish to make any real difference and any government suggesting the necessary changes would be slaughtered at the ballot box.
I’m still hopeful that science will find a way though.
Science is our only hope, so fingers crossed on that front.1 -
Obviously the company that make them, haven’t donated anything to the government.Siv_in_Norfolk said:
Not even solar panels. Solar roof tiles are a thing. How are they not now a standard legal requirement for new builds?ME14addick said:
New oil and gas fields will takes years to come onstream, by which time we should have had a huge investment in renewable forms of energy. It's going to cost money to set up those renewable industries and it should be paid out of taxation initially, with those who earn the most, paying more. If people are employed in the new industries with well paid jobs, that money will go back to the exchequer as those people will have more to spend and the income tax take will be higher. The economy will be boosted by a drive to renewables.MrWalker said:
If the alternative is mass power cuts, what should we do?ME14addick said:
Unfortunately the oil giants and climate change deniers have a lot of power through the media and their support for parties like the Tories. No serious Government would even consider opening up new oil fields when the climate crisis is so serious, for them it is make hay whilst the sun shines (no pun intended).seriously_red said:...
We are where we are!ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
And I'm not sure it's that different to where we were projected to be five or ten years ago?
There's a binary choice ahead and we will either see the politicians in the 🇺🇸 🇪🇺 🇨🇳 and 🇮🇳 lead us into net zero or not. Given that there are democracies in three of those four, the electorate will either support a net zero approach or the oil giants and climate change deniers.
And the UK that once led on these type of discussions will continue to be irrelevant!
There are millions of roofs in the country, they should be used to hold solar panels, it crazy not to make it a legal requirement for all suitable newbuilds to have solar panels fitted.
The only people to benefit from opening up new oil and gas fields will be the fossil fuel barons, it won't provide security for the UK as the oil and gas will be sold at market rate.4 -
The beginning of your post has confused me @seriously_red. I didn't call out anyone for their contribution?seriously_red said:Chunes said:
I feel like when we emphasis personal responsibility we might deflect from what really needs to be done? I recently worked on a documentary for National Geographic on coral depletion and plastics in the oceans. We were planning the story and talking to the marine biologists who work in ocean and coral restoration. The director wanted to end the video with the biologists telling the audience what they can do at home or in their personal lives to help.Stu_of_Kunming said:
All those things are commendable, they really are, but deep down you know you can do more and for any real difference to be made, everyone MUST do more. Sadly - most - people just don’t want to, like with solar panels as discussed above. One poster is happy for the expense to become mandatory as long as it’s someone else.JamesSeed said:
I am willing, and am quite green in quite a few areas. As a family we’ve cut back on red meant quite a lot, recycle most of the stuff that might otherwise go into landfill, and cycle or use public transport much of the time. Yes we have two holidays a year plus a trip to see my daughter in The Hague, but we offset the flights. We’re going by train next time as suggested by someone on the forum.Stu_of_Kunming said:JamesSeed said:
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.Chunes said:
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.ShootersHillGuru said:Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.But as I said, I’d support a government that reduced the amount of air travel we’re allowed to take if it was shown to make a difference.Unfortunately people, including myself, are far too selfish to make any real difference and any government suggesting the necessary changes would be slaughtered at the ballot box.
I expected them to say 'Don't use plastic straws' or something. They both said there really is nothing you can do personally, it comes down to government policy. That's what is wrecking coral and destroying sea life. As long as governments are freely pouring tons of crap into the ocean day by day, it will continue.
I think the environment is similar. The small things we do are to make ourselves feel better, or in some cases, have even been emphasised by the polluters lobby to distract from the fact that their clients and industries are the ones that need new government legislation and reform. That's the only way things are going to get better.
If anything is a worthy cause then perhaps best do some research before calling out others for their contribution and approach?
Fitst off we have the UK political scene where we were once leading on net zero initiatives:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66905231
And whilst we might give up flying, eating meat and petrol / diesel cars as well as improving the energy efficiency of our homes that's just a tokenism contribution when one considers where real change is required.
Squabbling amongst ourselves is simply deflection and distraction from the vast impact of inter governmental collaboration across a wide range of areas:
https://www.iea.org/news/renewable-power-s-growth-is-being-turbocharged-as-countries-seek-to-strengthen-energy-security
Meanwhile renewables production continues to grow but global inequality means that in excess of 2BN people have no access to clean cooking and thus are forced to use coal, and other carbon fuels for cooking food.
It's clear that the climate crisis as well as the need for energy security as a result of Russian invasion of Ukraine, has pushed countries to move further into renewables. But its also clear that global demand for electricity is rising.
Whether national governments, multi nationals and peoples find a balance isn't so clear.0 -
It isn't widely reported but there are a lot of good landlords out there. If you increase their costs they may have to put up rents or decide to sell up.3
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the landlords could simply get a second job and cover the costs themselves?MuttleyCAFC said:It isn't widely reported but there are a lot of good landlords out there. If you increase their costs they may have to put up rents or decide to sell up.4 -
Do you have a second job ?kentaddick said:
the landlords could simply get a second job and cover the costs themselves?MuttleyCAFC said:It isn't widely reported but there are a lot of good landlords out there. If you increase their costs they may have to put up rents or decide to sell up.0
